Argrax wrote:
Tarot wrote:
I've seen my own stats on Gruul.
What part of 'I didn't have a problem with a nerf, just how they did it' was unclear though?
Must have missed where you stated that, all I saw was you referring to it as a nerf which is a direct implication that it was unwarranted. Apparently we both have parses showing Shadow Priests at or close to the top of the meters with the other pure damage classes in their current state but yet you feel that they should be higher than what they're currently placing while providing the two largest secondary benefits of any class (VE/VT)? Even if they cut VE/VT both in half, it still wouldn't have been adequate as your suggesting, what else do Rogues (and Hunters for that matter) do besides beat stuff up? Even the other things that Warlocks and Mages do still wouldn't compare to a halved VE/VT.
Look, mind flay costs next to no mana. With good gear, a good spec, careful management (of using my pet to regain mana at the optimal point that it will restore the most mana/not die/and repop soon)
THE LONGER THE FIGHT THE HIGHER MY DPS. Why?
Because shadow priest mind flay is the most efficient form of
consistent dps and even lower dps if CONSTANT ends up being higher over a long time...it has minimal mana cost, if the mana is managed properly (again I'm also using pots btw) I should
never be out of mana...I *might* have to wand briefly depending though...and if I never use mind blast that's unlikely though I do use it at times if a group takes a chunk o' dmg for a higher hp regen....and constantly keeping up the 3 DoTs which restore mana/hp and SW:P...my dps is consistent.
Versus what other classes? Rogue has good dps. There's a rogue I raid with who
no one will ever beat on dps if he lives through the entire fight and he usually does. He's also a very good player, with good gear. Not that he doesn't get upgrades still...he's just one of those players that is REALLY good. So okay I'm never beating THAT guy if he lives. Mages? Great burst damage, but the longer the fight the lower their dps. Warlocks? Same thing usually, and they're often restoring their own health/mana as well...and they're rarely in the Spriest group (usually in a tank group with an imp). Most other dps classes the longer the fight, the less their dps as they run through their instants, have to deal with the pool of power they use for their dmg, movement during the fight, etc.
I'm mind flay looping~ usually 3 mindflays and a round of restoring DoTs (and during that round a mind blast burst if I have the mana).
Okay now let's jump back to
every other fight besides a major boss fight. My dps is far lower than everyone else. I have 3 DoTs (2 of them are instants) to put on a mob...if I want. Depending on how long that mob will live v. how many people are on it, v. if I will take dmg...determines if I'm putting those on there. Usually I hit the hp restore vamp, and SW:P, and ignore the mana one on trash. Then it's mind flay, because even though mind blast does more 'burst' damage, the casting time makes it slightly inefficent for overall dps/hp restore. If we look at parsing for shadow priests through everything else, their dps is lower than most dps classes.
Which is still fine, they're not there for pure dps. Their dps could be much lower than that and people would STILL want them along, purely for the hp/mana regen even in instances. Especially if you have a pally along.
Soloing? Just takes longer.
It's not unplayable, it's not broken I'm not QQing with sand in my v-jay. I simply do not like how they implemented the "fix". I said before the nerf, I said during the nerf, I said after the nerf
shadow priests were overpowered. There is absolutely no fucking reason they should have been top or near top dps
while also healing and restoring mana. That was stupid and unbalanced. Most people didn't care, as it benefited everyone. The people bitching the most though were some of the dps classes that were clenching their asses crying, "Noooooo, we must be the top dps!!!". I don't disagree with them btw, just that I thought some of the whining was overdramaticly funny. But *no question* it was OP and needed addressing. However it was OP
not purely on the dps issue, but also on the
vamp issue.
Which is why it would have been nicer to see them address both, rather than heavily nerf
one of those. Reduce the amount vamp is restoring on both hp/mana, up the dps. They could even address the
long term dps issue by making mind flay more mana intensive. That would be fine too, and would address the 'omg they do so much dps on really long fights QQ' that people still bitch about. And would make the class easier to do the shit we do 90% of the time we're not raiding, while keeping it in balance.
Again, just *my* opinion. And I'm not one of the people screaming 'Noooooo we're worthless now!' as I have seen some morons whine. Or people who bitch that they're quitting priests because both holy and shadow are now gimped. 0_o I think those arguments are beyond moronic.
The only other thing I would really really like to see...is this...tiered instance armor
for shadow priests. Shadow priests are a completely distinctive class, it really is. If you're wearing the ...I think it's tier 3 instance, but whatever it is, sets...you're wearing Oblivion/warlock armor.
It's a petty whine, I'm not saying 'zomg they need to focus on this now!' or anything of the sort...I'd just like to see it. And yes, I know they have in some higher tiered shadow priest gear, I have some of it, and some of it is craptacular.
Just a pet peeve, just something else I'd like to see for the class.
Tarot wrote:
Mana restoration is certainly nice, it's absolutely beneficial...but it's not making or breaking raids, especially given that it effects only the group the spriest is in.
Look at this
this log of our first Karathress kill and tell me with a straight face that that Shadow Priest wasn't
hugely influential (click my name, Argrax, to show what he returned). You can also see that he's not just saving me a few gold...[/quote]
It's not essential to the raid. It's super nice to have, I hear constantly on any raid I bring Sylvara on...
constantly mind you...how much they LOVE shadow priests. When I started taking my hunter on my Kara run instead, I subbed in Syl on another raid with the guild I raid with when they almost had to call it over loss of ppl. I heard from that raid who never has an Spriest on that run how much they LOVE shadow priests.
Part of that is, and I'm saying this without ego or snobbery, how I play. I know this because I've seen another shadow priest who is *better* than I am (so who I try to learn from) and I've seen many others who just suck. Their suckage isn't so much 'play strat' since how fucking hard is it to cast DoTs and mind flay...but their inability to multi-task well (shackle, FOR THE LOVE OF ..>SHACKLE!!!) and because they make
shitty gear choices. I actually need to retool my gear, I have some shit choices in there that I chose for very specific reasons (or sometimes in laziness)...but which are 'bad' how I'm playing Syl atm. I've seen some with gear that would make baby jesus cry, and when they're getting 20% resists...well...
Anyway, that's always part of the game, for all classes. There are fights where I've looked at the logs and I've seen how much Syl mattered, how
essential she appeared on that fight. Curator down on first evo with me off tanking the entire time? Woot! Much fun too! Yet, I've seen that same fight on my hunter...slightly slower (down at the end of first evo, woo!)
without a shadow priest. Results are still great, strategy is just going to play out a little differently with class make up. And Redfeather wasn't the 'essential' role there, in fact her dps was super shitty because of serious lack of gear at that point. (And she still lacks in gear but she's WAY better than she was...this was without any kara loots, and without a lot of instance loot even...hell mostly greens).
Tarot wrote:
However there is more to WoW life than raiding, amazingly enough.
Wow is balanced around raiding and arena, your comments extended beyond PvP which I why I brought up the PvE aspect of things.[/quote]
Right, but the balance I'm talking about that *I* would prefer to see is IMO more balancing when considered for
all those factors. It's just about what I would have rather seen. Is it likely to happen? Meh, probably not.
And one thing I always fail to consider is the continual 'dumbing down' of the game. Kara is already being pugged...so it's not like Kara loots will be out of reach to even casual players. That gear has to be taken into consideration when considering 'overall' dps of classes. Then they have to also take into consideration the very high end gear. My perspective is based on what I see and do, as is every player's. They may have chosen to nerf it the way they did because of a longer view than I have...I dunno. It's simply what I would have prefered to see.
And mind flay does
not need to be affected by the resilience change. As a channeled effect, it's easily disrupted by many many many methods. DoTs
did need a change, and as I've said repeatedly, I don't give a shit if that also affects Spriest DoTs. That's fine.