why i am even bothering posting here, right off the bat, shows how dumb i am. but i digress. have fun if you wish, or offer legitimate advice if you wish. or ignore it.<
>
<
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mutual friend sets me up with her friend. meet her for the first time a few days ago. we had talked
iefly on the phone, then met each other in person at a small gathering. we are making small talk, nothing major, just the standard getting to know each other.<
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<
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when we leave, i walk her to the car. we chat some more, maybe around 30-45 minutes. again, standard getting to know each other chat. fine. however, she is standing a good 6-10 feet from me. now, i am not asking to invade her personal space, and i am respecting it. but that just seems like a very long distance for two people to be having a conversation, alone, outside in public with no one else around.<
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<
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i call her yesterday, wish her a happy easter. i don't get a return call from her. i can semi understand, as she was going to be with her family all day. yes, it really would have been cool to just get a quick message saying 'happy easter' either by text or answering machine or phone call, but i digress.<
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<
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i surprise her at work today. just wanted to say hi, i was in her area on my way to do other errands. i approach her, smile and friendly posture. she looks at me, and asks me if i need any help (she is in customer service). she asks the question like she would anyone. after a second, she realizes who i am and gets excited and says 'omg i did not recognize you for a second, hi there!'<
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<
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now. she is a cool person. i like things about her. and i realize all of us have our own quirks, and no one is perfect (heck, i know i am not). but these above three paragraphs just.... bother me for some odd reason. standing far away, not returning a quick phone call, and not immediately recognizing someone... do i have a leg to stand on if i was to say i am a bit disappointed? or are these three situations legitimately fine, and i should not worry bout trivial things like this?<
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<
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and before anyone asks....<
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<
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i know i am dumb for even coming to these boards to ask. i do consider a few of you guys friends (albiet online), and i do respect the opinions of a few of you who are legitimate and serious.<
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and there will be no pictures. she is attractive. that is all you need to know.<
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<i></i>

You are trying way to hard and if you keep it up will scare her off. If she is interested in you she is prob just playing it slow to see how you act lay off a bit and see what happens.<
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<
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Other then that what was the chat like did she seem to care or was it like she was off in another place and looking for a reason to leave? Drundor Ducex Warlord Co-Leader of Fearless Alliance <
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<
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<
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Magnamar 70 Nemesis <i></i>

Doing the drop-in at work not a good call. <i></i>

Quote:i surprise her at work today. just wanted to say hi, i was in her area on my way to do other errands.<
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<
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Okay here's my advice, just from a woman's perspective. You two haven't even gone out, she may or may not know you're interested. You meet on neutral ground at the picnic, and her standing a distance away, is something I do if I want to leave. It's my signal saying basically nice conversation, but I need to go. That's what it means if I'm in a parking lot standing 10 feet from you. YMMV.<
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<
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Now, calling on a holiday...well, okay. But I wouldn't return the call because holidays are for family. There are relatives I have that I don't even call to wish a happy easter to because I assume it would be intrusive on their preperations for the day. Same with close friends, etc. What I personally do is send e-cards, that way people get my 'Happy Holiday' message without me interrupting any cele
ation they may be having.<
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<
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And that's with people I'm pretty close to or friends with. I don't think I'd even call someone I had just met...unless they had specifically said they'd be alone that day or were sad they had nothing to do then I'd call to cheer them up.<
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<
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Dropping by work...huge no. I would honestly freak out if some guy I had just met, called me on Easter then "casually" dropped by my work. I would think they were stalker-ish. <
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<
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Now I'm not saying YOU are like that, you're a decent guy cc, but we're talking about someone who doesn't really know you. At the very least it smacks of desperation and no woman is attracted to that. Or at least no one you'd want to be with. But it would be...well something that would freak me out a bit.<
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<
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Just giving you some feedback, hope you find it helpful. Def. do the casual 'hey what's up stuff' but better it's done in a phone call during like the week, with the intentions of setting up a date or something. The Birth of Tarot (NSFW)<
><
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Keep my head from exploding?...<b>You can help!</b><i></i>

Honestly, it sounds like she's just not that into you. =/ One thing I could understand, but not all three.<
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Hope I'm wrong, however. <
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<i></i>

_________________

Find someone clingy like yourself, otherwise its giong to be difficult.<
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<
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Non clingy people dont like clingy types, and vice versa. You sound like the kind who could care less whether she was around 24/7 after knowing her for 2 hours, she does not.<
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Theres nothing wrong with you, but I tend to think youre just going 'too fast' for her, because your version of slow and hers are simply different. <
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My sig got eated by the bit bucket...<
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Fellenwhite Moonsong<
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65-Something drunken freak of Lanys<
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Formerly known as:<
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Dashkast Justifyer<
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65 Gnomish Puppy kicker<
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<i></i>

_________________
My sig got eated by the bit bucket...
Fellenwhite Moonsong
Sixty-Something drunken freak of Lanys
Formerly known as:
Dashkast Justifyer
75 Gnomish Puppy kicker

I'm not sure I understand your question. I'll be honest in saying you haven't exactly handled yourself well with this girl, especially the dropping in on her during work part, bad idea. However nothing you've said about HER actions so far suggest you've blown it with her yet, even though from my perspective you have. My advice is keep it as casual as possible and try and set up a date, her reaction to your request will tell you if it's already game over or if you still have a shot. <
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<i></i>

Sounds like the romance between Sling Blade and that fat retard that worked at Family Dollar.<
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Quote:mutual friend sets me up with her friend<
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<
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How about asking your mutual friend <i></i>

Here we go again... <i></i>

_________________

thread worthless without pics. <i></i>

Didn't we recently have a "This is what happened with my date, does this chick dig me?" thread from CC?<
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<
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And I would have to say dropping by her work so soon wasn't a good idea. Even if she was 100% into you, it's too early for it. Watch Swingers, then try again. <i></i>

Six days <i></i>

Damn... this is too long to proofread.<
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<
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I'm currently trying to coach a buddy through similar issues, heh. Sounds like the two of you have similar issues. The secret to relationships is not to make yourself too available. Never fall into the trap of being "the nice guy". That's not saying you have to be a dick, but don't crawl up a chick's butt.<
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<
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It's funny - the car situation you describe is one I yelled at him about. You probably need to close encounters more tightly. <
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Don't linger in that small talk crap. Seriously, "nice guys" get this idea they're getting to know somebody. Nope, you're tripping into the category of BORING! Sure, women SAY they wan't conversation, but they don't. <
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<
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The small gathering was a nice start, but you need to treat that like a first date and close it appropriately. It sounds like you did OK, but when you walked her to your car you partially buggered it up. Don't stand around chatting. You might think it's nice, but there's a chance it's awkward. My buddy and I just had this talk. When you walk someone to their car, you need to do this:<
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<
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Say: "I had a great time, it was awesome meeting you."<
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Extend your right hand to shake hers.<
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She'll shake your hand (maybe a hug or peck, go with it if she does).<
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When she grasps your right hand, you put your left hand on hers - effectively trapping hers.<
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Make eye contact and say, "I'm looking forward to getting to see you again. I'll give you a call."<
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Let her say something as you give her hand a gentle shake. <
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Don't hold this more than 20-30 seconds.<
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Let go say, "Goodbye".<
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Let her say bye.<
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Turn and walk away.<
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<
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Standing around drags out the situation. It sucks mystery or excitement from the encounter. 99% of the time, you're better off with the quick close and leave.<
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<
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This first encounter close rules the world for the following reasons:<
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#1 - it's more intimate than a regular handshake. The clasp and eye contact says, "I would like to fuck you someday".<
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#2 - it's quick, so she doesn't have to worry about you trying to tongue wrestle her.<
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#3 - it shows you respect her space<
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#4 - it's quick, and if she likes you, it will make her want you MORE than if you stood around jerking off<
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#5 - it's quick, and if she thinks you're a pud, you didn't waste a ton of time.<
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<
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Married with Children is a great show. There is one line from it that effectively says: "within 10 minutes of meeting a guy, a girl knows whether she's going to sleep with him".<
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<
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That's good fucking advice, and dead on in 99% of situations.<
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<
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So - be quick. Don't fall into the "i'm a nice guy and I want to get to know someone". Nope - that's pure douchebag and will lead to frustration.<
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<
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Get in and out of the first 2 dates as quick as you can. But, you have to follow the general rules:<
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1. First date can be about anything. As long as the event lasts over 2 hours, it counts. Use the handshake close.<
>
2. Second date needs to be on a weekend night and be official. Don't dick around with "half-dates". You know: things like meeting for lunch or dropping into her work to say HI. It kills the mystique. <
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3. ALWAYS go for a small kiss on the second date. YOu don't have to suck face, but if a girl won't give you anything at all on the second date: she thinks you're a douche.<
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<
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Cicely, those are general tips for the future.<
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Within the first 10 minutes of meeting, she knew whether she was interested. If she wasn't interested, there's nothing you could do to change it. If she was interested, you could hose it up by being too needy.<
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<
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Honestly, if she was standing 6-10 feet away, it sounds like you had already gotten lumped into the "friend" category. However, if she was interested, the long conversation at the car could ice it. Next time, close faster - in and out. Frankly, she didn't know you that well and the situation could have intimidated her.<
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<
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The Easter call was bad. One of the secrets of calling girls is to hedge your bets. Try to get a feel for when they'll be available so you don't have to drive yourself crazy wondering if they intentionally avoided your call. Never call on holidays or wierd hours. If they work a 8-5 job, call between 7pm-8pm. That's the best spot. For peope with odd schedules, you have to think it through.<
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<
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If she was interested, odds are the drop-in at work was the death sentence. It's just a little too much. Any time you don't get a return phone call, there's a minimum 3 day cool off period. The worse thing you can do is follow up quickly.<
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<
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The reason is this: if she doesn't like you - your clinginess confirms that in her mind and eliminates any possibility at all. If she does like you and was sincerely tied up, you're putting doubts in her head.<
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I have written a ton and not helped you at all.<
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<
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Here's how you resolve the situation:<
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<
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You don't call her this week until Sunday at 7pm.<
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If she calls you, great - she's interested. ASk her on a date. <
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If she doesn't call you, odds are she's not interested. <
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However, that doesn't mean you have to 100% give up.<
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Call her Sunday at 7pm-ish. <
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Make small talk for 5-10 minutes. <
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NO LONGER!<
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Don't fool yourself into thinking a 2 hour conversation means she wants to hump you. If she likes you at all - 5-10 minutes is all you need.<
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<
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Wrap the conversation up with:<
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"hey, I need to get some stuff done around the house, but I thought I'd give you a holler. I was going to see if you wanted to do something this weekend, but I was wrapped up. BUt, I was wondering if you had any free time this coming weekend to ..."<
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fill in the blank. I highly recommend comedy clubs for first dates. They're a safe alternative.<
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<
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If she makes an excuse why she can't - let it go at, "that's cool - here's my number if you get a free minute, give me a buzz later this week."<
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<
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If her excuse is legit - she'll call. If she doesn't call, you're done and need to move on.<
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<
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You're probably fighting an uphill battle on this one, but I've seen stranger turn-arounds <
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<
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Good luck! <i></i>

These three situations are legitimately fine, and you should not worry bout trivial things like this.<
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<
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Some people like extra personal space, to know with any certainty the body language would have to be witnessed.<
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<
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Tarot's explanation of the holiday thing is probably right on. There are any number of reasons a message isn't responded to.<
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<
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Some people are bad with faces. I'm personally finding more and more that unless there is something that is distinct about a persons face, which I can point to, I might not recognize them. Especially in an environment I wouldn't expect to see them, like work. I've not recognized family members right away while I'm at work. Just think how many faces she must see in a work day.<
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<
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You may be coming off as too eager but you may not. She might like that you called and stopped by her work. <
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"I am not a ranger, but I have played one on the internet."<i></i>

true.com <i></i>

adultfriendfinder.com<
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<
>http://www.myspace.com/thewatcher2k<i></i>

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala

match.com <i></i>

eharmony.com <i></i>

Quote: Six days<
>
Industry standard, right? <i></i>

"Three days is like industry standard"<
>
"Yeah, but I'm thinking everyone in town waits three days, so I'm thinking four days is kind of money."<
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"How about two weeks? A month? I'll call her tell her I was cleaning out my wallet and found her number, right? I'll ask her if we fucked."<
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"Laugh all you want, Mikey, but if you call too early, you might scare away a beautiful baby who wants to party."<
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"So how long are you gonna wait for your babies."<
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"Six days." <i></i>

Classic.<
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<
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Mikey, is he cute? Is he
own? Would he like to join us for a cocktail? Is he polite? Is he clean? Have him take off his shoes. Don't let him go! <i></i>

"The Kings suck in this game"<
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"I took the Kings to the cup"<
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"Yeah against the computer with the offsides off"<
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"They're a finesse team"<
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"They're a fucking bitch team." <i></i>

"I wish they still had fights in this game so I could bitch-slap Wayne."<
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"What? They don't have fighting anymore?"<
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"Doesn't that suck?"<
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"Why'd they get rid of the fighting? It was the best part of the old version."<
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"I think kids were hittin' each other or somethin', man.<
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Yeah but you know what, Mike? You can make their heads bleed in this one."<
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"Make somebody's head bleed."<
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"No man, were in the playoffs." <i></i>

<
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Orme, that was a great post. I have had some seriously long relationships that lasted entirely through those periods in your life where you learn to "date." (4 year relationship all the way through highschool, then a 5 year relationship straight through college). As such, I never really learned simple shit like you just suggested, and I appreciate the direct, practical advice. If you have more, post it!<
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<
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Fribur-- 60 Warlock of Oryx<
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<i></i>

_________________
Magic in Fribur's World

Hahah, now I want to watch that movie. <
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"I am not a ranger, but I have played one on the internet."<i></i>

yes, i had something similar a few months ago. really says a lot about how crappy and pathetic i am at dating, isn't it? also, quite an embarassment as well. i suck at dating, i suck at 'the hunt', i am just simply no good. i am surprised someone hasn't told me to 'shoot myself in the face' or something like that. <
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<
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thanks for the replies. i guess i will just see what happens and go from there. although knowing me, and the dumb and idiotic things that i say and do, it will all be for moot cause i will just screw up again.<
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<
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and yes, 'swingers' is one of the greatest movies ever created.<
>
<i></i>

Quote:yes, i had something similar a few months ago. really says a lot about how crappy and pathetic i am at dating, isn't it? also, quite an embarassment as well. i suck at dating, i suck at 'the hunt', i am just simply no good. i am surprised someone hasn't told me to 'shoot myself in the face' or something like that.<
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<
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damn man, I've never met you, but you really can't be as bad as you think. That low self esteem about dating has to be something that women pick up on, and it's not going to help you any .<
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<
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Repeat after me: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggoneit people like me! <
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<
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<i></i>

_________________
Magic in Fribur's World

Yeah, CC, rejection is only bad if you let it
ing you down. Look at it as a learning experience. No matter how many times people tell you what does and doesn't work, the only way you know for sure is doing it yourself. There are 3 options when you take a risk. It works and you are both happy, it fails and you are miserable, it fails and you chalk it up on the "don't do again" list and become wiser because of it. In other words, you have a 66% chance of it not being bad. Keep in mind though, some things work on some girls that don't work on others. Especially early on, you need to really read the body language and make your next move based on that. Beware though, Women have abilities way beyond our comprehension and understanding, so always keep your guard up. <i></i>

Quote:Repeat after me: I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggoneit people like me! <
>
LMAO. Ahhh...memories of the days when I liked Al Franken. <i></i>

Sounds like she's not interested to me, but the signs are vague. I'd take Orme's advice in your situation.<
>
<
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On a side note, I know it's already been said, but you really shouldn't visit her work after one date. If some chick came to my work after just meeting her, I'd probably never talk to her again. To me that just says "Clingy", and no sane person wants that. <i></i>

_________________
--Samel

Everything Orme said is dead on. If you do manage to get a real date just make sure you close it right. It sounds like for all your weaknesses you're not a horrible conversationalist (or you wouldn't have been able to talk to her that long) so if she calls or you ask her out and she accepts you're set, as long as you don't puss out and not kiss her. Going for that first kiss is hard, hard, hard, especially if you're inexperienced or nervous. In any case we may have more in common than you think, because for a long time I was always the nice guy who all the girls felt comfortable talking to and befriending but not fucking. Then I realized as the guy you either make the move or nothing happens, the girl isn't going to act like a bad movie character and suddenly kiss you, you've got to be
ave and take it. There's not information to tell for sure, but I think from the limited amount you've told us about her reactions (especially since you've already fucked up and she hasn't run screaming yet) she must at least somewhat like you. Assuming that's true and she's a regular girl if you ask her out she'll probably accept, I'd just go for it, you don't have much to lose. <
>
<
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<i></i>

Quote:Going for that first kiss is hard, hard, hard, especially if you're inexperienced or nervous.<
>
I'd say that is the hardest part. I have had times where I got the vibe that they wanted it and was wrong, and have also not done it and as time went on and we got more comfortable together, was asked why I didn't. No matter how smooth or experienced you are, the beginning of dating or a relationship is always going to be a crap shoot, and will rarely if ever be totally smooth.<
>
<
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Keep your head up, Homie. As cliche as it sounds, there are PLENTY of fish in the sea, and most of the good ones come around when you least expect it. <i></i>

roofies are your friends <i></i>

_________________

*sits around at home on the floor and drinks orange juice* <
>
My Profile - Oryx<i></i>

just be more confident man, you obviously have no problem holding a conversation or approaching women in general. just follow ormes advice and relax. <i></i>

With a name like Cicely Goldenfair you must be gay. Perhaps women aren't your thing. Try asking Cak out. <i></i>

Just remember CC. Fat chicks are like mopeds: Sure they're fun to ride, but you don't want your friends to see you. <i></i>

_________________
"Be glad there was a keyboard, monitor and miles of fiber between us when you typed that."

"State that opinion in my presence, you fucktard, and I'll show you how valid it is when I'm kicking the shit out of you."

Watch Hitch and the advice he gives the fat accountant. It is pretty much teh same thing Orme said.<
>
<
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Women (even though the 'women' on this board will dissagree) don't wan't touchy feely, sensative guys. They want a MAN and they want a challenge. After they 'get' their man THEN is when they make the move to change him into some sniveling, beaches-watching, Steel Magnolias quoting simp. <
>
<
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When their efforts fail, is when they complain to their girlfirends about how big an asshole he is and how they will never go for a 'bad boy' again.<
>
<
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Then they proclaim how there are no good men left in the world who are sensative and caring and can communicate, yadda yadda yadda, only to go out the next week and find another 'badboy' and repeat the cycle. <
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<
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Face it man, women don't have a clue as to what they want in a man. They only know what they want to change a man into.<
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<i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Quote:With a name like Cicely Goldenfair you must be gay. Perhaps women aren't your thing. Try asking Cak out.<
>
<
>
Coffee meet Keyboard. <i></i>

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Man...I am so fucking glad I got lucky and managed to find a good woman while avoiding all this psychological maneuvering and posturing and stuff. I'll seriously just go and jump off a building if I ever have to deal with it, it all sounds so fucked up, heh. <i></i>

Quote:<
>
Women (even though the 'women' on this board will dissagree) don't wan't touchy feely, sensative guys.<
>
<
>
Well I can't speak for every woman, but for me this is so completely true and it is true of most women I know. There are a lot of women that think this is what they want but then once they actually find a man like that they are bored. <
>
<
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Now that's not saying all women want jackass boyfriends/husbands, but sensativity becomes wussness (not a word but it fits anyway lol). <
>
<
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That said, romance (candlelight dinners etc...) is important, as is thoughtfullness (remembering that she wanted that cute heart necklace she pointed out two months ago for her bday).<
>
<
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Other then romance and thoughtfullness you really can't be clingy and overly sensative because you will end up in the friend catagory very quickly (well at least more often then not). <
>
"When you can't run anymore, you crawl, <
>
and when you can't do that, you find someone to carry you" - Tracey - Firefly<i></i>

_________________
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Quote:Now that's not saying all women want jackass boyfriends/husbands, but sensativity becomes wussness<
>
<
>
I venture to say that most women who say this will look back on their lives and realize just how unhappy they really were. <i></i>

_________________

Yeah, why exactly does sensitivity = "wussness"? <
>
<
>
So you WANT your partner to say, "Hey, buck up you fucking pussy." when you're depressed or hurting or screaming in the middle of child birth?<
>
<
>
Sometimes I really think that a lot of people watched so much TV in their life that they really start to believe that's how life is, or is supposed to be. =/ Believe it or not guys don't have to grunt and murder each other with power tools over a bet on last weeks football game in order to be good partners. <i></i>

Quote:I venture to say that most women who say this will look back on their lives and realize just how unhappy they really were.<
>
<
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Care to explain what you mean? Because I am pretty damn happy with my life. So not really sure what you are making a comment on. <i></i>

_________________
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Quote:So you WANT your partner to say, "Hey, buck up you fucking pussy." when you're depressed or hurting or screaming in the middle of child birth?<
>
<
>
waaait a minute.. You are confusing sesitivity for empathy. <
>
<
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I'm talking about the overly sensative idiot that thinks that crying at movies and being in touch with there feminine side makes them MORE attractive to women. That's my definition of wussness. I want a boyfriend not a girlfriend.<
>
<
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There is a huge difference between that definition of sensitive (which is the definition I think khan was using). and giving a shit about someone else. <i></i>

_________________
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Quote:Sometimes I really think that a lot of people watched so much TV in their life that they really start to believe that's how life is, or is supposed to be.<
>
<
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GET OUT OF MY HEAD!<
>
<
>
I was about to say this about most women. I know so many women that act like drama is their morning coffee. My wife used to have a friend who would
eak out in tears every time she came over-EVEN STONE SOBER! That's why large numbers of them working or living in one place is a bad thing. They create their own little soap operas. Maybe its the same with their love lifes. They chase jerks for the drama, then later realize they're with a jerk. <
>
<
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Kinda off-topic here, but, the hardest lesson I had to learn is to be your own man. Don't let the women turn you into the pussy they think they want. Be the man you wish you were. I think all women try to change their man at some point, but a good partner moves past that in a hurry. <i></i>

_________________
"Be glad there was a keyboard, monitor and miles of fiber between us when you typed that."

"State that opinion in my presence, you fucktard, and I'll show you how valid it is when I'm kicking the shit out of you."

Quote:waaait a minute.. You are confusing sesitivity for empathy. <
>
<
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Well, perhaps you're right, but I believe you're also mistakenly confusing sensitivity with weakness. <i></i>

I mean just what I said. They will look back and see that they were in and out of failed relationships more often than they care to admit. They will look back and answer the "if you could do it all again, would you change anything" question with a "yes" rather than a "no". Saying you're happy now is one thing, looking back years later, who can say? <
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ps: You are right in that no chick wants a sissy who cries at every chick flick, but you are comparing apples and pears. <i></i>

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I think we are just using two different definitions of sensitivity. <i></i>

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"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Couple things...<
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First,<
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Dating is a numbers game. I am 31 and I have dated a ton. But, that's because I am incredibly picky and crabby. I'm not a player by any means. I've always joked that if I was good looking, I'd get laid every night. I have game, but not the looks, heh. I used Match.Com. I think it's great. When I was younger, I relied on bars, but I'm old enough now where that's not the best avenue. On Match, I went through a lot of women. Finally, I stumbled onto an incredible girl I would have never met in a bar (or anywhere else). <
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So, in a way: dating is like selling door-to-door. Being good at selling is nice, but it's more important to knock on a lot of doors.<
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Second, on the "girls like jerks" stuff...<
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Girls don't want assholes.<
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Girls don't want pussies.<
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Girls want romance. They frequently confuse danger, excitement, and mystery with romance. <
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That's why girls go for "the bad boy". The "nice guys" they know are douchebags. Girls get hooked on the bad boy because they're exciting and challenging. The relationships usually get ugly because deep down inside the bad boy is often a loser.<
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So, when you're looking to land a girl:<
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#1 - play the 'slightly bad boy' rule. You don't have to ride a Harley, but you must be distant. There's no reason to call 5 times in 5 days. The cardinal rule: DON'T BE TOO AVAILABLE. Guys think this is a good move, but it's the worse. Don't say "I'll do whatever you want" or "I can do something anytime this weekend." GAH, those are the kiss of death.<
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#2 - After 3-5 good dates, you need to have had some serious intimacy. I'm not saying fucking. As a rule, I almost never fuck within 30 days of meeting someone unless they're just giving it away and I have no interest beyond a nut. If you've been daying for a month or more, and haven't had your hands in a place she wouldn't let her
other put his hands, then you're probably wasting time. I'm not even talking about stinky fingers. I mean a good old fashion make out session. <
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#3 - Once you've had a couple solid make out sessions and have 5-6 dates under your belt, you've set the foundation. You now can transition from 'slight bad boy' to 'slight pussy'. This is when you start doing nice shit.<
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Third, Cicely - have some confidence.<
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Only one thing is worse than a "nice guy": it's a guy with no confidence. If the secret to real estate is LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION, the secret to dating is CONFIDENCE CONFIDENCE CONFIDENCE.<
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Just assume the girl is interested. Act like you know she's going to say yes. It's fine to be scared inside. Every time I've ever kissed a girl for the first time I've been nervous. The difference is, I don't show it.<
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It's FAR better to run head first into a wall of rejection than to back into it and fall down over it. <
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Seriously - get yourself on Match. If I remember, you're lanky, right? Let me say this, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone:<
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Skinny people can always be made to look attractive. Even if you're silly ass skinny, the right clothes, hair, and look can make you reasonably attractive. It's a lot harder for fat people. You just need to do an honest assessment of your look, put up a decent profile, and take some pictures that accentuate your positives instead of negatives. <i></i>

Quote:Saying you're happy now is one thing, looking back years later, who can say?<
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After everything we have been through together and still remained together. Our three wonderful kids etc... I can say I am and will be able to say i was/am happy. /shrug no one can see the future but after everything I highly doubt there is anything that can rip us apart and make me unhappy when I look back.<
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Everyone has regretes in life but at 35 I can look back as say there isn't a damn thing I'd do differently because it might change where I am now. guess I'll see in 20 years if I still feel the same but I refuse to look at life that way /shrug<
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But off the me topic. I prefer not to spread my life out on this board <
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Anyway looks like you agreed with me just not with my use of the word sesitive so I'll leave it at that. <i></i>

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"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Oops! I didn't comment on my #1, #2, and #3 about going from "slight bad boy" to "slight pussy".<
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I always stay distant for the first month or so. That build the mystery and such required to make the relationship have any intensity.<
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Once the girl is invested in the relationship is when you change to "slight pussy". <
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For example, I bought my girlfriend a car out of the blue a couple weeks ago. She loved it and thought I was the greatest. The reason it worked is because I don't do it often enough. I'm "manly" enough most of the time. But, once every month or so, I do something pussy. <
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And of course, you need to have empathy and be sensitive. But, don't go apeshit. If the woman is having a serious problem you need to understand and deal with it kindly. If she's being a dumb ass drama whore, you have to call her on it.<
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If something happens in your life that makes you want to cry, it's OK to be vulnerable for your woman. But, you shouldn't come home every night blubbering like a bitch.<
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Life is about balance. <
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Jeebus, I need to go back to work, heh. <i></i>

I wasn't referring to YOU, per se, but rather anyone who dates the bad boys, has been in 8 relationships in 2 years, yet will tell you that she is perfectly happy even though she can't figure out why she's still not (re)married at age 37 and why her little girl is on birth control at age 11.<
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<i></i>

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LOL - bought my girlfriend a CARD.<
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That missing D significantly changes the nature of the gift <i></i>

Quote:I think we are just using two different definitions of sensitivity.<
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Perhaps we're using the same definition, just different magnitudes of it.<
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Sure, a guy that cries about everything at the drop of a hat might get annoying, but does such a guy even exist outside of movies and TV? Seriously, I've never met a guy in my entire life that fit the description being offered by some people here. I've seen it portrayed on TV, in movies, and in jokes, but I've never, ever met one. And before someone throws in the "Gay guys!" part, no not even gay guys that I've met act this way. <
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Hell, for that matter, I haven't really even met that many women who act that way. <i></i>

Simple answer<
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They want a man who takes charge. Not to the point of bossiness or being controlling, but simply will say 'Alright, baby, get dressed, we're going out', and then he makes the plans. If they are a good couple, he'll know what she likes enough that his plans are something she'll enjoy. What he WONT be is the guy who says 'I'll do whatever you want', or 'I dunno, if you think that's okay, we'll do it'. <
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Almost down to the rule, women want a man who will act like one, and not play too close to the gender role dividing line like alot of guys do today.<
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They also don't want a guy who's TOO interested in them, at least not initially. For Cicely, don't chase. Show interest, just enough that they know, and make them work for it. Thats worded a bit rough but women like to chase men once they know the man is interested. They also like little bits of drama from time to time so they know that they are alive. Look at all the women who aren't content in a relationship that looks 'fine'. The guy is 'nice', and 'has a good job', but offers no excitement. Women today need to feel alive. Bringing her roses doesn't do that. It just shows you care. Today, that's no longer enough. The paradigm has changed, and women want to, from time to time, get their wild on. Almost all of them. If they can't do it with you, it's because they don't trust you in a way that they worry you'll be judgemental or not up to the task. She'll stick if can get her 'wild' on with you, have fun, and know that, in the morning, she'll be safe.<
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If any guy hits on her, get in his face. You don't necessarily have to fight him. But you need to definately play the smart role of marking some territory. Now, if she doesn't appreciate it, and if she initiated the 'flirting' with the other guy, your relationship is doomed and you should dump her.<
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Dating sucks, but your only alternative is a 'real doll', and those don't cook, so fuck that.<
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Make her alive, don't chase too much, and for god's sake grow some spine.<
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PS, the 6 foot conversation distance, that's 100% proof positive body language sign that either she's not interested, or your putting off some kind of sign that's keeping her back. Sorry dude, but this one, save some extraordinary measures, ain't gonna go anywhere. <i></i>

Quote:Perhaps we're using the same definition, just different magnitudes of it.<
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Most likely... <
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<
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and I know you didn't mean me neesha it was just directed my way so I was kinda using me as an example. Probably came off a bit "all about meish" wasn't meant that way though. <i></i>

_________________
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Orme is hitting the nail on the head everytime, and the toughest thing I find to do, is not make myself available, and be distant. Instinct forces you, especially if you really dig someone, is to get as much of them as possible. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, as tough as it is to do. <i></i>

Yeah, Orme is really getting it right.<
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To sum up what looks like the consensus: <
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1) Work on your confidence/self-esteem issues. <
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2) Don't chase. Give them room to come to you. <i></i>

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"Be glad there was a keyboard, monitor and miles of fiber between us when you typed that."

"State that opinion in my presence, you fucktard, and I'll show you how valid it is when I'm kicking the shit out of you."

3) Don't get so heart
oken if a girl you just met simply isn't attracted to you. It will happen again, I promise. <i></i>

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