You can pick up Kindles in Canada, but I may be wrong on that count, as they could've been imported /shrug.

Kindle has also stated they can do this from the beginning. Anyone acting surprised, didn't read diddly shit. I understand most people don't...but this shit was fully disclosed.

Now, I personally do not like the ability of a purchaser to take away something you bought. Recalls are voluntary. However if Amazon were to institute it that way, a shitload of legal copyright free content would DRY UP COMPLETELY through Amazon whispernet, as they would have to approve every single submission carefully.

And then there would be no free content, because there would be a surcharge for that approval process, which is costly and time consuming.

So, while I dislike it, in this type of instance...I have no fucking problem with it. Amazon ONLY 'polices' content they provide. They make no efforts to enforce someone else's copyright on material they DON'T provide.

So if you find this copy of 1984 elsewhere and claim it's perfectly legal for you to own...Amazon isn't going to do shit about it. They're simply handling their liability appropriately.

I will have a fucking hissy fit the first time a PUBLISHER submits something they have a right to submit then pulls it later. That *can* happen, though it hasn't, and if they erase people's content there I will be very unhappy. Again, they've said upfront they CAN do that (and they can limit the number of copies of an ebook you can possess on linked kindles, yadda yadda) ...but to date they haven't done it.

As far as lack of notification, they revise books constantly. I've had books erased because of a content bug, no notification given (yet I knew why because I was the bug reporter ) and then a day or three later a new copy given, or in one case available (since money was refunded I had to rebuy).

_________________

Bad analogy as property seizure can and does happen that way lol. Repossessions can happen with no notification (so you don't move the car or items) and if the police find a stolen car on your driveway they don't have to wait 'til you come home to take the car.

Additionally if you've bought stolen property, people are often out the money they spent since the money went to a thief. In this case Amazon reimbursed, and likely would have had liability had they not.

But honestly even if they had ZERO liability there...I bet they would have reimbursed, they're very committed to keeping Kindle users happy. And since the initial story that broke on this was wrong (claim that the publisher released then changed mind) ...a lot of the hissy fits were based on what they originally thought was going on, not that it was an 'illegal' (or grey market if you believe the legality of it is wonky) copy.

As far as doing a better job notifying...yeah they should. They're lazy about that. That criticism is fully valid, but I think (PURE SPECULATION HERE ) that they do it because the majority of the time you avoid bitching that way as people don't notice all the stuff you're doing. To notify is to draw attention to it.

_________________

/sigh, you're arguing the semantics whereas I'm not even touching that point.



No offense, Tarot, but you're making me feel like I'm on a the insanelymac forums, but with a different brand I see this entire scenario as a VERY VERY bad thing for the consumer, and we shouldn't accept it. Their DRM/info management policies are the only reason I, nor my wife, have bought one. I might once it's more hackable however so I can do with MY property as I see fit. As an aside, I feel the same way about my game consoles, and music/video rights as well. I don't mod to steal, I mod to enforce my rights as a consumer.

if you don't want them automatically deleting your shit, just disable whispernet.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

It would be no different El than iPhone deleting and refunding an iPhone application they found out was a stolen app.

You have no 'right' to stolen property. Amazon had no 'right' to facilitate the sale. And the person selling it had no 'right' to sell it.

It's not an issue of 1984 being out of copyright, it was an issue of the copy of 1984 being offered being directly COPIED wholesale from that publisher. It was their work.

If I publish a copy of Shakespeare, someone can't take my copy and start cranking them out claiming since Will is long dead they have a right. They can publish Shakespeare, what they can't do is reprint *MY* publication of it.

And when such illegal operations are shut down the only reason police do not seize all the contraband property is that it's simply not practical. But all contraband they can get ahold of is seized. So if you came down to the store and were all 'but I already paid, I own it, I'm just picking it up'...that argument wouldn't fly. They will seize it because they *can*.

As far as DRM shit, the only problems with Amazon and that is that 'Kindle books' cannot be used on anything non-Kindle...except an iPhone which has an authorized 'Kindle application'.

That annoys people in the "It's my copy and I'll do what I wanna" way...but in reality Kindle is able to make deals with publishers because of it (as well as due to their position as a book seller, but they're also protecting that by not having tons of that shit pirated).

I can make all other formats into Kindle books. I'm sure applications will arise that allow me to pull a Kindle book off my Kindle and make it a 'non-Kindle' ebook to be used anywhere. But of course they're not going to make it easy. I have no problem with that.

And there's no requirement for me to connect to Amazon after I've purchased a copy of my ebook. I only connect Whispernet when I use the internet or buy books, once connected then they can and do access my Kindle in the terms set forth. They do not touch any content NOT theirs though, so all my other books that are non-Amazon...are completely ignored. They do not 'police' them nor should they (nor will they).

After all that if you have issues with it...that's understandable. I really don't...other than I will be very unhappy if they pull content based on an author or publisher getting pissy after the fact...on something legal and authorized. I doubt that will happen...but if it does I will be pissed.

_________________

Again, I'm not going to argue any particular point here. IT NOT BEING LEGAL isn't what I'm really worried about here. And for the record, I've never had Apple yank an app from the dashboard.



See, and that's the thing. Good for you. You've weighed the options and decided that you're coming out ahead as a consumer. I personally don't see how, but hey, that's your deal. The only part I want to point out is the part I put in bold above. We'll see how long that actually lasts once the device is hacked. This is where my problem lies, and where the problem for the other folks "throwing hissy fits" also lies. I just don't need 6 paragraphs to tell you why this is bad for the consumer. If you'd like to write 6-7 justifying it again, by all means, please do.

Except that it's not bad for the consumer, that's where we disagree. I get that you're saying it's bad and why. What I'm saying is that this material wouldn't be available at this time, and at this price without it.

Anyhoo I see this as less a DRM issue and more of a 'But I want to play my Nintendo Games on my computer and every other console I own TOOOOOO'.

_________________

There's more to the DRM objections than just, "But I want to play my Nintendo Games on my computer and every other console I own TOOOOOO"

At the same time, I can see your point about things not being available at the price right now if not for DRM, but that's a hard point to argue.

I am one of the few people that I know of that have zero objection to DRM.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Of course there are to DRMs in general. Kindle's DRM is REALLY analogious to that though. Once you download an amazon purchase to your kindle you have to do nothing to continue to authorize it. You don't have to reconnect or any of that bullshit.

The *only* place the analogy fails is that you can't take that kindle book and put it on ANOTHER kindle book...unless it's linked to your account (and there's a max limit). But the trade off there is you CAN have both books up at the same time. So if I buy 1984, and I had 5 family/friends with kindles hooked to my account, I could put that same copy on ALL the kindles if I wanted, or 3/5 if I wanted.

But if you had a kindle I couldn't 'loan' it to you. Which is a shame, that I'd like to see, I wouldn't mind if they did unique copies in that respect. Like you can put copies on ones you have under your account, but you can only loan 1 copy and when you do, you don't have access to it. The problem with that though would be reselling and lack of loss/wear. An ebook which can be redownloaded at will has no ability to be lost or 'worn out' like a real book.

But nothing is perfect and that's one of the arguments against allowing 'loans'. And if Amazon allowed it, they'd lose authors/publishers.

You don't have a right to loan your other ebook formats out, or to resell them, so you agree when you purchase, so it's also nothing new. There may be some exceptions out there, but it's the industry standard. The only exception I've ever seen is with a real physical textbook that ALSO includes a pdf book with it. You can resell the DISK with the pdf as long as it's included with the book because they're 'bonus' items. But there was prohibitions against selling them seperately (okay to sell the book alone, not okay to sell the disk alone).

Anyway, I have a BIG fucking issue when I buy a computer game, having to constantly input "I DIDN'T STEAL IT" codes, allowing the game to access a live server to verify I'm not a thief, blah blah blah. It's annoying. It's even worse when you have all the disks...but don't have the manual or slip of paper with the long activation code...and you need it to play the fucking thing.

That's not at all how it works with Kindle books. There's no 'you're a thief' assumption. They do not check anything else you put on there. You simply can only buy kindle books for the kindle, and you can only share them within kindles on your account. That's it. I have no issue with that. And if at any time I want to lock Amazon out of my kindle, I simply keep my whispernet turned off.

_________________

Interest:

http://consumerist.com/5318014/how-to-load-up-your-kindle-with-non+amazon-ebooks?skyline=true&s=x

but...we've always been able to load up the kindle with non-amazon books, and do everything else on there. I've found it easier to do it to my PC then from my PC to my kindle, but with whispernet you could always d/l direct certain file types.

The only thing I can think of is the elderly crowd who isn't PC-saavy being clueless on how to do it so this is all 'oooo shiny' new to them? Dunno.

And I always save everything as a back up on my PC. However if you turn on whispernet with an 'unauthorized/removed' book on your kindle, it would be removed again. I don't know if they'd actually take any action against the acct if you kept doing it. You could always simply remove it yourself before reactivating whispernet, but I'm far too lazy.

_________________

Also as I'm SURE I've stated more than twice...amazon will convert .pdfs for you for 10 cents on the original kindle and the k2. The other one can read .pdfs natively, no conversion needed.

_________________

Or you can use a free program to convert pdfs to .mobi files and skip the dime conversion.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Is Amazon even selling the K1 anymore?

Nope, just the K2 and the DX. You can buy used K1's from people through Amazon.

Resurrecting this thread, because Barnes and Noble are introducing the "Nook-e Reader" (lol)

I find it intriguing. I couldn't get excited too much over the Kindle, but this one is different for some reason to me.

Here's a link:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354649,00.asp

My father has told me he's buying me an ereader for Chrismakah. I think I'm leaning toward the Nook. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook

I like that it has an SD card slot, I like that I can upload my pdf books directly to it, rather than having to go through Amazon, so on and so forth...

_________________

The only thing I'm nonplussed about on the nook is the battery life. I have to charge my kindle once a month. With a color touchscreen, I can only imagine that the battery life is not even close.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

According to the site, its battery life is 10 hours, compared to the 14 hours for Kindle.

But it's hard to say how accurate that is, with it being unreleased.

_________________

I dunno, it feels like I get more than 14 hours between charges on the kindle.

but like you said, unreleased product = unsure, especially since battery life numbers are vague at best and wholly misrepresented at worst.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I really like my e-reader but the Nook has some features that would be especially nice (like the ability to share a single book) that the e-reader only has through a computer. If one of these came with the ability to access books that were released overseas but not in the US (or not yet in the US) I'd be sold, but they don't.

My Nook has been preordered. Says it'll ship Dec. 7, which is a bit odd considering the site says the release date is Nov. 30 (or something like that)...

I'll let you guys know what I think after I have some time to play with it!

_________________

Yeah I wish I could share kindle books. I've also read that Nook books are a lot more expensive.

I can't wait to see what you report Austy.

One thing is certain though...competition is good! It'll push everyone to develop better e-readers and more competitive book pricing/licensing

_________________

It looks like I'll be getting a Nook for Christmas, so I'll post some impressions then.

I would tend to disagree on your statement that "competition is good" in a niche market like e-book readers.

Look at what happened to Sirius and XM radio -- both catered to the same niche market, and neither could survive on their own. I think e-book reader saturation will be a "bad thing" unless there's some cooperation between the manufacturers to where their proprietary book formats are readable on all devices (Kindle books on the Nook, and vice versa)

Otherwise you don't have one market, you have X number of multiple, mutually exclusive markets.

True, there are epub books and mobi books, along with proprietary formats, but you don't find new books in epub or mobi.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

You might be right Van, however where the analogy fails is that the sat. radios were specific markets. Unless e-readers lock their books into their market ONLY...the competition is good. It's a platform competition ONLY.

Now because 2 of the readers are tied to distribution markets...that's where it can get shitty due to distribution. But I haven't seen ANYTHING out of Amazon which says or implies that books cannot be sold outside of Amazon, or available outside the kindle platform.

So to use a book I bought recently: The Greatest Show on Earth by Dawkins is available as a real book and kindle on Amazon. I could have bought it as a real book elsewhere too. If it's already available as an e-book elsewhere as well (which I suspect it probably is)...I could buy that elsewhere as well...and stick it on my kindle, provided it wasn't platform sensitive (not a sony book, etc.)

Hope that makes sense. I think competition in devices is a good thing, but competition with 'This book is available EXCLUSIVESLY THROUGH...etc' is not and is akin to the sat. radio issue.

_________________

the amazon doesn't support nearly as wide a range of formats as it should, that's really the problem.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I was thinking I would never want one of these, I love my large library of paperbacks, but they are dust collectors.

Downloading a book right away appeals to me, as where I live the closest book store is 200 miles from here, other than the dozen or so found at the pharmacy or going to the library online is really the only option.

So I have decided to get one of these nifty readers, but you guys got me stumped on which one to go with.

I like the looks of the kindle but the sony looks to be a better unit.

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

the sony is a little more convenient if you don't have whispernet coverage (which I think recently came to canada), but i like the kindle's interface a good deal more.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

whispernet require 3G?

we don't have 3G here yet, well this part of Canada anyways

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

whispernet doesn't require 3g, but is faster on it.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

also, is there no way to share the ebooks you download?

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

I have the sony reader and there is no way to share any books directly from the device. I can share any book I've bought through my computer as a single book. The Nook apparently (I haven't looked at it in great detail) allows for device to device single book sharing.

the amazon does not allow book sharing between kindles tied to different amazon accounts.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I guess the folks at Amazon have one mega huge DRM boner

Might be that, but I know it's def. the publishers because they can and do set limits on how many kindles per account can share. That's been a HUGE area of contention w/ authors and publishers...because they see e-formats as ways for their shit to be stolen since the book has no physical existence.

One of the biggest bitches about this is J K Rowling, who apparently doesn't have enough billions.

I don't really give a fuck about the books being kindle only...but let me share the unique copy with a friend for fuck's sake. Take it OFF my book and lend it to them. Or lend them a copy (twinning so we can both read) which expires in X days.

TOR is one of the few publishers who doesn't have their head up their collective arses about ebooks and has found giving books away for free...boosts sales.

I've always liked them.

_________________

most authors don't give a shit about the kindle, it's just more sales for them, so bigger royalty checks. the publishers are being dicks about it.

jk rowling is a special case -- she writes her books out longhand, and likes the feel of paper, and doesn't understand why people would want to read an e-book over a paper book.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Weee, Kindle 2.0 now supports PDF files. Only bad thing is that I don't think there's a way to zoom, and sometimes the fonts are too small. Though rotating the screen works. Which is another feature that was added with the latest patch, we can now rotate the screen.

Now, if they would let us add our own custom screen savers that'd be great. Hate hacking my shit.

my kindle is on its way!

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

Well it turns out I'm getting a Kindle instead of a Nook after all, since Nooks are backordered till after Christmas. I'll still give some impressions here when I get it.

The Kindle is a fascinating social experiment. It's like watching a company re-invent the computer, with all of the lessons that we learned two decades ago slowly being applied to it. The best part: you guys cheer when they add something we've been able to do for years on other devices. It's like watching old Apple fans when their products were truly awful 10 years ago.

This reminds me of stuff people said when television first started, regarding the radio and how useless an experiment television was...doomed to fail! Why would people watch a screen when with radio they could listen to quality programming while going about their chores?! DOOMED DOOMED

Or what people said about computers...many times over at various points. And then computers being viable for the home user!

It's nothing new, there's people that just don't get it when new technology emerges.

_________________

The Kindle and other e-readers are not really re-inventing the computer either, they are just applying technology we have had for a while into new products that serve a specific purpose. Something we do with many other technological products that surround us today.

The problem with the Apple comparison is that Kindles are not competing with computers, but other e-readers, and having Amazon introduce PDF support is important when competing against other e-readers that have it. So you can't say, "Hahaha, we've had PDF support all this time on computers!" It just doesn't matter, that's not the point.

What you are saying Jox is sort of like saying, "Hahaha, they just introduced video playback on iPods/whateverMP3player! We've had it for ever on televisions and computers! Can't believe anyone is getting excited for something that we've had for so long!" And well, it just doesn't matter because MP3 players are not competing with computers.

Another example would be phones, they are starting to do things that we've been able to do with computers for a long time, doesn't mean the computer is being re-invented. The technology is just being used differently in ways that it couldn't be used before for certain devices.

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that it's non-functional (no zoom) than it suddenly has PDF support. You're getting features it should have had at launch, but they are like early PC feature upgrades - so poorly implemented that it's almost not worth having. You're not only getting features that should have been there since launch, you're getting poorly designed features. It's like people celebrating when the iphone got cut and paste. We're lauding Apple for putting in a feature that should have been in at launch?

On the other hand, you look at devices from companies that "get it", and you really don't have that problem. Sorry, but while you marvel that your mobile device is getting the ability to read PDFs (poorly), I am reaping the benefits of using a device created by a company smart enough to design it with an open architecture. Amazon is behind the curve not so much in specific features, but design philosophy. Other than the initial buzz at launch, the vast majority of press coverage has revolved around poor design decisions, whether due to ownership issues or feature enhancements.

jox, what platform are you talking about? the iphone? that's laughable.

the nook is even more laughably "open" than the kindle, other than it running android.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

So, it bugs you that I'm happy about a new feature being added to a device I own (on a thread dedicated to it) because a device that I don't own can do it better? You gotta chill out.

zoom is the double "a" button to increase font.

Not on PDF files, at least not the ones I have. Hitting the Font button (aA) has font size grayed out, and only allows me to rotate the screen. I've heard some PDF files with graphics and stuff do have a special Zoom function, probably depends on the file.

ahh, have not uploaded any pdf's.


go to:

http://www.kindleboards.com/

and see if they have any tips.

Cool:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/12/02/vi ... -magazine/

My kindle arrived yesterday and all I can say is, FUCKING AWESOME!

I have no idea how this whispernet works, I assumed we didn't have any in the area, but it shows a few bars on the signal meter and it downloaded books no problem.

I am already 1/2 way through the lost symbol, it is a very nice way to read a book, no more wasting time turning pages, just tap the button and keep on reading!

For laughs, here is the log of its travel by UPS, UPS are idiots in how they ship things in Canada.

Track your package
Date Time Location Event Details
December 2, 2009 07:06:00 PM PCL-THUNDER BAY BLDG ON CA Arrival Scan
December 2, 2009 01:14:00 PM RAINY RIVER CA Delivered
December 2, 2009 09:36:00 AM THUNDER BAY ON CA Out for delivery
December 2, 2009 09:36:00 AM PCL-THUNDER BAY ON CA Arrival Scan
December 1, 2009 06:20:00 AM THUNDER BAY ON CA Arrival Scan
December 1, 2009 03:50:00 AM WINNIPEG MB CA Departure Scan
December 1, 2009 02:59:00 AM WINNIPEG MB CA Arrival Scan
December 1, 2009 01:20:00 AM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Departure Scan
November 30, 2009 10:03:00 PM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Arrival Scan
November 30, 2009 08:48:00 AM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Completed customs clearance process
November 30, 2009 08:48:00 AM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Initiated customs clearance process
November 30, 2009 08:48:00 AM HAMILTON AIR ON CA Completed customs clearance process
November 30, 2009 08:48:00 AM HAMILTON AIR ON CA Initiated customs clearance process
November 30, 2009 04:53:00 AM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Arrival Scan
November 29, 2009 10:52:00 PM Buffalo NY US Departure Scan
November 29, 2009 10:50:00 PM Buffalo NY US Arrival Scan
November 29, 2009 10:36:00 PM MOUNT HOPE ON CA Arrival Scan
November 28, 2009 01:08:00 PM Louisville KY US Departure Scan
November 28, 2009 02:58:00 AM Louisville KY US Arrival Scan
November 27, 2009 08:38:00 PM Phoenix AZ US Departure Scan
November 27, 2009 06:03:00 PM Phoenix AZ US Shipment received by carrier
November 27, 2009 12:28:34 PM Phoenix AZ US Shipment has left seller facility and is in transit

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

Why do you say they're idiots?

It makes more sense if you know the geography of Ontario.

Essentially if they would of shipped the item directly to Thunder Bay from Mount Hope they would of saved a good day and a half of travel time.

Instead they overshot my place by 200 miles, then back hauled it to Thunder Bay for another 400 miles then brought it back to my place for another 300 miles.

It is how the other couriers ship items here.

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

Wow... assuming that's true, I am no longer interested in the Nook.

Nice review.

Well over at kindleboards there was a woman who went to B&N and did a side by side trying to be as unbiased as she could. I'll link it if you want to read it.