Yeah, this is my fear as well, Bov. That SW:TOR might end up being "Just another MMO" once I'm max level (which I really think will happen. This is an MMO after all). One thing, if that happens...at least I have other classes to play for their class story lines tho

The game will keep me busy for a long time in that regards

knights of the old republic 2.5

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Nope at least give it KOTOR 3!!! Do you know how dated KOTOR II is these days?!?

I'm confused.. is the meme that it's a WoW ripoff or just another KOTOR game? They are sort of polar opposites.

So far it's a fantastic single player game that has a multiplayer component.

It's not really a wow ripoff - a wow ripoff would have a customizable UI and an auction house UI that's not a warcrime.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Doesn't it have all of the multiplayer components that WoW has? What does a horrible UI have to do with single player vs. multiplayer?

It's single player most all of the way to 50. You can easily skip all heroic quests and flashpoints and make it to 50 with a quest backlog.

Then at 50 you have your choice - bugged hard modes, terrible open world pvp (ilum), or trivially simple raids. I guess it DOES have all the multiplayer content wow does.

Terrible UI's just make it painful to do anything in a multiplayer scenario. Healing is terrible, for example.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

There's more reason to group and do heroics in this game than WoW though, isn't there? When was the last time you grouped for a quest while leveling in that game?

Level 50 experience is exactly the same as wow. Log in, do dailies, pvp or flashpoints.

Once you turn on ops frames for groups, the biggest thing missing from a healer perspective are things like mouseover healing, debuff/buff highlighting, etc.

Yeah I figured as much. But like I said, I have other classes to play and exp their story lines. So I will be happy with the game for about 6+ months at least. I really don't know if companies can change the end game for an MMO.

Well, maybe BioWare can cont to add ongoing story driven content for solo or small groups. But I think the focus will be on raid content, and grinding out gear just like all the other games.

State of PvP at the moment:

1) People who raced to 50 just mindlessly farming level 12's all day for piles of free valor/commendations.

2) World of Roguecraft all over again, only replace Rogue with "Operative" this time.

Just stick to questing unless you're already 50 and geared or in a premade.

They could do it by removing the concept of level. Make every character's power level a function entirely fed by gear and quest progress. The only reason to grind would be to farm crafting materials.

Much like UO did.

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

I've long thought mmo's should go that route. Playing an alt, especially in a game like WoW which has literally no appeal pre-85, is boring and just a time sink to get to max.

Not sure what this means. Rogues were/have been a pretty hit-or-miss class in WoW, and definitely not overpowered or overplayed (assuming PVP).

I do ok as a powertech tank in pvp

True. Playing an alt in WoW (or any other MMO) was boring and a chore. But with SW:TOR, I have two chars playing and keeping them both the same level range etc. I have my BH and my SI, and loving both of their class story lines.

I really don't have a "main" char in this game...but I guess it would be the BH since he is 2 levels higher than my SI. I'm having a lot of fun right now, and I don't care to make lv 50 anytime soon.

Once these two are max level, I will play a Jedi Sage and a Smuggler next. I loved their class stories during the beta too.

Well, there was the spell during TBC when macepwning was all the rage.

Well that was fairly short-lived. Rogues could shine when all cooldowns were ready to go, but that was pretty situational. I just think it's a little premature to start saying one SW class is the flavor of the month, Operatives are pretty nice, however, but so are lots of others.

Bov posted that because that's the current meme on the SWTOR boards. It's already switched to another class. Powertechs I think.

Ahh. Don't get me wrong, I think they need to tone down the opener for melee Operatives, but I don't lose sleep over any classes.. yet.

1.1 patch notes if you haven't seen them yet and still care about this game.



Star Wars: The Old Republic - Game Update 1.1



General

Anti-aliasing is now available and can be enabled in the preferences menu.


Classes and Combat


General

Healing caused by crowd control abilities no longer generates threat.
Tooltips for abilities modified by skill points now display correct damage values.


Guard

This ability now transfers to a new friendly target without requiring deactivation on the previous target.
Activating this ability while targeting a guarded or invalid target will still toggle the Guard ability off.
A distinct visual effect is now present on characters using Guard on another character, and another effect is now present on the guarded character if they leave Guard’s range.

Taunt

A new visual effect has been added to the user and the target of the Taunt ability for the duration of its effect.


Jedi Consular

Project: This ability no longer shakes the screen of onlookers.


Shadow

Battle Readiness: Now allows Combat Technique to trigger once every 3 seconds.
Combat Technique: Healing received through Combat Technique has been increased, scales properly at higher levels, and can only be triggered once every 4.5 seconds.
Slow Time: This ability’s damage has been increased by 15% and it now slows the movement speed of all affected targets.


Jedi Knight

Force Leap: This ability no longer functions on Portable Holo Dancers.



Sith Inquisitor


Assassin

Dark Charge: Healing received through Dark Charge has been increased, scales properly at higher levels, and can only be triggered once every 4.5 seconds.
Overcharge Saber: Now allows Dark Charge to trigger once every 3 seconds.
Wither: Damage has been increased by 15% and it now slows the movement speed of all affected targets.


Sith Warrior

Intercede: This ability no longer functions on Portable Holo Dancers.
Shatter: this ability’s tooltip now correctly reflects its damage; damage from this ability has not been adjusted.



Imperial Agent


Bug Fixes

Corrected an issue where activating cover, using Explosive Probe, and then using Snipe could cause Snipe to be interrupted.


Bounty Hunter


General

Incendiary Missile: This ability is no longer misclassified as an Area of Effect ability.


Companion Characters



General

C2-N2 and 2V-R8 no longer vocalize crafting commentary during combat.
The Carbonized Stream companion ability no longer breaks prematurely.


Companions


Kira Carsen

Fixed an issue that caused players to be unable to progress in Kira’s affection conversations. Players previously affected by this issue can now speak to Kira and progress normally.


Bug Fixes

Companions will now sell trash items when requested, regardless of group size.
Companion healing abilities no longer apply a permanent green effect on the character.
Fixed an issue that caused Companion Characters to sometimes have the incorrect appearance in cinematics.


Crew Skills


Bug Fixes

Corrected an issue that prevented recently completed Crew Skill missions from showing up in the next list of available missions.
Fixed a bug that could cause Crew Skills a character didn’t have to appear in the Crew Skills window.
Players can no longer loot harvesting nodes they do not have the appropriate Crew Skill for after a group member harvests (but does not loot) a node.


Flashpoints and Operations



General

A new level 50 Flashpoint, Kaon Under Siege, is now available for play in Normal and Hard Modes!
The Gav Daragon and the Ziost Shadow have been expanded to accommodate the Kaon Under Siege gateway.
The difficulty of some non-boss enemies in Flashpoints has been adjusted.
Enemies now drop credits more frequently in Flashpoints.


Flashpoints


Cademimu

General Ortol’s rocket fire damage no longer occurs when the rocket is not active.


The Black Talon

Some enemies in this Flashpoint are no longer invisible.


The Foundry

Corrected an issue that could cause the final boss to become stuck at 10% health.


The Battle of Ilum

Krel Thak’s Allied Weequay Pirates have had their toughness reduced in Hard Mode.


The False Emperor

The Sith Entity’s affliction ability now properly deals damage in Hard Mode.
HK-47 now has the correct amount of health in Normal Mode.


Operations


Eternity Vault

Players are now able to successfully loot the chest after defeating the Infernal Council.
Perimeter Defense Cannons have been re-tuned and have improved targeting behaviors.
Soa’s Mind Trap and Force Throw abilities no longer target the same player multiple times; they now target every player in the group once.
Ball lightning enemies summoned by Soa deal damage in a smaller radius.
The Annihilation Droid’s rocket burst attack no longer deals double damage in 16-player Operations.
Soa now summons fewer ball lightning enemies during the final round in 16-player Operations.


Karagga’s Palace

Four new bosses can now be battled by players in Karagga’s Palace!
Players no longer get stuck attempting to exit the Karagga’s Palace phase.


Bug Fixes


Flashpoints

Corrected an issue that prevented some enemy NPCs from spawning in Flashpoints.
The correct error message now displays when a player attempts to enter a different Flashpoint than the rest of the group.
Flashpoint gateways no longer display as orange in incorrect circumstances.
Fixed an issue that prevented Flashpoint difficulty from being set properly.
Fixed an issue that caused mapnotes directing players to some Flashpoints to not appear correctly.
Corrected map issues that made locating mission objectives on the Gav Daragon difficult.
Fixed an issue preventing some players from opening a chest after a boss fight if the group was previously defeated by the boss.


Items


General

An Item Modification Table has been added to the Supplies areas of the Republic and Imperial Fleets.


PvP

Battlemaster Gear Tokens have been converted into Battlemaster Commendations, which can be used to purchase any Battlemaster gear. This allows players to purchase any piece of gear instead of requiring them to purchase the piece indicated by the token.
Battlemaster Bags now contain Battlemaster Commendations instead of Battlemaster Gear Tokens. They still also contain Champion Commendations.


Missions and NPCs


General

All Bonus Series missions and their required missions can now be abandoned.
Certain Wampas on Hoth that were preying on lower-level characters have had their level reduced.


Missions


Imperial

Pressure Points: The Lerantha Lurker no longer engages players in combat before completing its spawn sequence.
Geroya be Haran: Objectives related to this mission now glow when selected.
In Cold Blood: Enemies that use Armor Piercing Cell during this mission no longer each stack a debuff on the player.
Shadow Spawn: The Sith Spawn no longer knocks players down for longer than intended.
Thuggish Behavior: Corrected an issue that could cause the player to remain stuck in combat during this mission. The required kills to complete this mission have been reduced.


Republic

Climbing the Ladder: A conversation related to this mission no longer ends prematurely.
Droid Clean Up: Corrected an issue that caused the bonus mission to persist in the player’s mission log.
The Summit: The difficulty of the encounter with Sidone has been reduced.
Vivicar Awaits: Lowered the amount of enemies that attack the player during the step “Find a Way Past the Force Field.”


NPCs



Bug Fixes

Jilcoln Cadera’s abilities now correctly take into account whether a player is immune from knockbacks.
The “Primal Destroyer” World Boss on Belsavis is now “Overwhelming” as intended.
The World Boss “The First” on Dromund Kaas no longer inhibits Bounty Hunter’s Rapid Shots, and Imperial Agents will no longer be knocked out of cover during combat with it.

PvP


General

The shuttle room in Dorn Base Command Center on Hoth is no longer considered contested territory.
Ka on Voss is now a PvP Sanctuary.


Warzones

Level 50 players now participate in their own Warzone bracket and will not be matched with lower-level players.


Ilum

The daily and weekly mission objectives in Ilum now require defeating enemy players and/or collecting armaments from the center objective.
Players now gain increased Valor from player kills in Ilum.
Players now gain increased bonus Valor for kills based on the number of objectives controlled by their faction.
Increased bonus Valor is now granted for player kills when defending an objective your faction owns.
A notification is now displayed when a player gains Valor.
Three new respawn points have been added for each faction.
Companions are now restricted from the PvP objective area on Ilum.
Notifications are now displayed when enemy players are close to an objective.


Bug Fixes


General

The scoreboard value for “Highest Protection Per Single Life” now functions correctly.
Players who have left a Warzone can no longer receive an MVP vote from teammates.
Your PvP status will now be toggled automatically upon leaving a PvP region.
Additional feedback is now provided when a player attempts to toggle their PvP flag.
The Bolster tooltip now more accurately represents the buff’s effects.


Huttball

Corrected a rare issue that could cause the Frogdogs to be declared the winner in a 0-0 match even if the Rotworms held the ball last.


Ilum

Mountable turrets in Ilum no longer deal damage to targets behind them or outside their range.
Turrets no longer immediately dismount the player after use.


UI


Maps

Fixed a bug that prevented the minimap title from displaying when loading into the game or refreshing the UI.
Corrected an issue that caused some mapnotes to disappear from the minimap when other mapnotes were updated.


Items

Item hyperlinks now display stats for crafted research items properly.
Item hyperlinks no longer display erroneous additional information relating to schematics when examined.
Attempting to place a non-mission item into the mission inventory now displays an error message.
Dragging equipment onto the character paper doll no longer prompts an item deletion notice. Items dragged to the paper doll are now equipped if possible.
Item set bonuses now appear on the tooltip when viewing an item on a vendor.
Items that can be modified now display with the correct loot color in the loot roll window.
Comparative tooltips now correctly display stat differences when mousing over items in the Crew Skills window.


Bug Fixes

Fixed the tooltip display for ability cooldowns over one hour in length.
The interface for splitting stacks of items now displays correctly.
Servers that are online now always display on top of servers that are offline in the Server Select screen.
Corrected a typographical error in the “Additional Commands” context menu option.
Players nearby a player who achieves a new Legacy level no longer receive the Legacy level-up notification.
Legacy name display preferences now persist when travelling between planets.
A new confirmation dialogue now appears when submitting spam reports in game.
Sorting now works correctly in the Guilds tab.



Miscellaneous Bug Fixes

The owner of a holocall conversation is no longer shown in the last frame of the cinematic.
The spacebar button is now recognized when a player presses it to progress after a loading screen even if the spacebar button has been re-bound.
Additional issues that could impact performance on Taris have been addressed.
Vanity pets can no longer be considered targets for any abilities.
Corrected an issue that could cause some preferences to reset to defaults upon area transitions.
An Aim Datacron on Ilum is now accessible and no longer repeats its initial cinematic once used.
A Datacron on Coruscant is no longer blocked by unintentional collision.

Which is....basically everyone still posting on this board, including yourself?

Nah, I had seen them the other day. Figured I would post them for the people who haven't seen them yet.

It means that Operatives are in a crazier place than Rogues were back in Vanilla. It's a complete mindfuck trying to figure out how anyone thought that class was a good design idea.

"Hey, lets take every stealth opener from rogues in WoW....and combine them all into one attack!"

And no, Joxur, it's not a "meme", it's the damn truth. The class is a complete joke. (Actually, pretty much all the "burst DPS" classes are a joke right now. They're just the worst of the lot.)

I still stand by my PVP ruins the MMO stance. I may be in the extreme minority with this, but I don't give a crap about PVP. It would not bother me in the least if there were no PVP in the game at all.

The only PVP that I could like is a large force of people fighting against another large force of people for an extended amount of time, sort of like Alterac Valley v1.0. Those were epic battles that lasted days sometimes. People entering and exiting during the battle with the lines moving back and forth, and various NPC's joining the fight after certain accomplishments have been achieved.

1v1, 2v2, and the like are just glorified duels so one person can gloat his/her epeen over another.

Also this. How many AE knockbacks on short cooldowns did they really think we needed?