damn, and I was just wondering where the hell everyone was

Except, it's not. There's side by side comparisons showing this. There's gameplay video previews showing this.



The VAST VAST majority of items you create can only be created by gathering materials from an area that far exceeds the levels of use for the item itself. This leaves you with missions or a broke ass GTN (if you make me justify this statement, you're a fucking retard) to get resources, thus making it a money sink for the sole purpose of skillups, and max skill means you're making ghetto gear which will NOT be better than the standard tier of gear (as they've already announced) thus making it fairly meaningless to start with.



This is a list that can be a mile long, but I'll just start with even the basic biochem changes, or the Agent nerfs. If you've ever solo'd an Agent, it's an exercise in fucking tiresome gameplay for the most part. To gimp an ability for the sole purpose of satisfying PVP is ponderous to me. Fact is, the industry as a whole should know that if you want to have a compelling aspect, you need to segment them such that they are independent of one another to allow for true balance.



And this, above, is basically why it's a broken mechanic. Any investment in tradeskills is to generate credits you don't need because you don't buy anything worth a shit because the crafted materials are worth shit.



Slicing MISSIONS haven't been profitable in [weeks], and even that's debatable as the mission crits generate some profit with a bit of effort. Slicing itself is VERY profitable. I can guarantee you that I've got more money than you in this game, and I quit a bit over a week ago. Slicing is ridiculously profitable if you know what you're doing. It's a gathering skill, NOT a mission skill.



Good point, but at the same time, not. I'd start with having your choice be more than Balmorra or....well, Balmorra? Look, when you got to a theme park, you can get sick of the rides after awhile. But imagine how quickly you'd be bored if said themepark had only one roller coaster in it. It could be the most amazing ride ever, but I'd rather have a park with about a dozen good rides, than just one amazing coaster, because it's predictable far more quickly. So, no need to scale existing content, just create MORE existing content.

Oooh look, someone busted out the themepark reference! Plus 1 for using the current message board meme.

Go play Eve Online and let me know how you like the sandbox.

Are you playing the same game I am? I've leveled two 50s and multiple sub-50s and I've *never* had to rely on actual gathered items, the mission UI is sufficient to make pretty much anything, including epic crew skill items. Did you actually run around right clicking on nodes? For serious? To get what?

I have an agent. It's just like soloing my BH or any other class I've leveled. You target a mob and about 5 seconds later it's dead. Do you squeeze some kind of amazing gameplay on other classes in those 5 seconds?

The current board warrior stance is that sorcs are OP in PVP. Just want to make sure you stay informed with the masses, man.

Your point is incoherent... At least, it would be if there was a point. What is it, again? That you want more than one option to level? What system in an mmo can give you that? Name it.

I hate myself for arguing this point with you because quite honestly, the leveling experience in mmo's sucks. Getting alts to level 50 is a chore, and the real game doesn't even begin until you do.

It's sad to see you fall into this trap. How long have you been playing MMO's, again? I've never, ever, ever seen a period where there wasn't some form of massive imbalance that people get butt hurt over. Why participate in it? Ops were OP and got nerfed. Here's a newsflash for you - it will happen again. It happened in WoW every tier, the only difference is that it went the other way - PVE dictated PVP. It's not hard to understand the reversal if you realize that more people are active at level 50 in Warzones in THIS game than PVE. Why does this surprise you?

Stop being so jaded.

That's not a meme, dummy, it's an analogy, and a fairly apt one. You don't get to point to the extreme end of the spectrum, and strawman that. I'm telling you that the path for advancement offers no deviation from the rails. None, but I address that more below.



If that's the intent, why are the nodes present to start with? You asked why the system is broken, I'm pointing out the holes. If you find the mission UI sufficient, so be it. It may very well be, if all you're making is might hilts every few levels to fill in the one mod slot that really matters at all because the value of the rest of the crafted gear is negligible based on the cost vs return.



I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about how the gameplay ISN'T broken and you break out this gem. I actually was intrigued by the cover system. An almost entirely worthless mechanic sadly. But, as we were primarily discussing how PVP nerfs effect PVE, I used this as an example because it's a disturbing trend. The Agent isn't exactly DEATH FROM ABOVE OMG overpowering by any stretch, yet design changes are made for the sole purpose of improving PVP. If that design approach doesn't bother you, I don't know what else to say. It's shit design, and always has been.



I want MORE options when I hit certain levels. Let me draw it in crayon for you. When I hit level 20, I want a choice of content. And I'm sorry, but doing a few levels in one to be level appropriate for the next in line isn't choice. It literally is going A -> B -> C -> D. A few more planets for the various level ranges would've been fucking great. You can then funnel those players into a more limited range of highend content.



Because the solution is so VERY simple, especially for warzones. Removing world PVP servers from the equation (because they're fucking retarded and those clowns get what they deserve), making an entirely new set of combat skills (they can be modified versions of existing ones) and advancement effectively silos this aspect of the game, and removes the need for striking a PVE/PVP balance in its entirety.

It's a bit late for that now, obviously. But I'll quote you from earlier in this thread: "It is an mmo with a strong single player storyline. What were you expecting?"

NOT a game so heavily dependent on PVP for the endgame wouldn't you say, chief?



Ahh you see, and that's the rub right there. I reference your quote above. You can't call it strong single player storyline out of one side of your mouth, and then point out how leveling through it sucks from the other. My point is that preventing the leveling experience from sucking was ENTIRELY preventable, and would've made this game a much bigger game changer and actually FUN to play past the first or second run.

Just admit you're happy that you've found some of the endgame achievement in MMO's you've always craved in recent years with WoW and TOR. Congratulations, but most of us have moved on to actually meaning it when we say we just want to have some fun, and sadly, this doesn't deliver consistently enough to achieve that. But don't worry, having a magenta lightsaber makes up for all the trudging 5 alts through hours of strong single player storyline I'm sure.

I'm not sure Tali played SWTOR after the Operative "nerf" since he seems to think it broke the class. Newsflash: they are still just as powerful as they were before the nerf, people just don't get hit for 10k in the first 3 seconds anymore (it takes about 6 seconds).


EDIT: Not that I need money for anything, but I made (and can make) a killing selling Cybertech mods. Also, there are useful end-game items that can be crafted via Synthweaving/Armormech/etc (and more are being added). Maybe not THE ABSOLUTE BEST ITEM but certainly in the top 3 for particular slots.

Fuck, I just replied at length to a Joxur/Neesha troll and random-fuckedup-avatar-gif-whowereyouinEQ guy about a fucking video game and why it's not fun.

I used to argue this nonsense for both the fun of it, and for the benefit of those who actually mattered to me on these forums and whose opinions were valuable enough to warrant influencing. Those people are long gone, and all that's left (the ones I don't already chinwag on Facebook from time to time), are you assholes.

I don't think it was a troll attempt. I certainly wasn't trying to troll, I am genuinely curious as to what it will take for you guys to think a game is good. I'm not going to sit here with the wool over my eyes and pretend everything in SWTOR is perfect, but it's hardly the broken piece of shit you make it out to be. The MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER part of the game is just fine. The raid content is just fine. In fact, with the new stuff on the horizon, I'd say Bioware definitely had a good plan in place.

Yes they fucked up with the UI not being customizable, the GTN is a nightmare to navigate, yes there are still lots of silly bugs in the game that should have been addressed by now (Pylon boss bugs out still, sometimes you have to fight Soa with chunks of the floor missing, etc). But overall, I think they are being pretty smart.

A dungeon finder in a game that is 2 months old seems counter-productive in building a community, somewhat, but I can see why people want one. A raid finder would be totally pointless. It is too soon for cross-realm PVP (but it will be here before we know it). Ilum is still a hunk of shit and short of making it into another Wintergrasp, I don't know that they'll ever fix it, due to server imbalance. There are other things that people are demanding, but I think even dual specs are not a huge deal right now. People bitch about money being useless in the game and turn around and bitch about the cost of respecs.. more proof that players don't always know what's best.

The game simply needs to mature. Perhaps the problem with some people who already quit is that they spent 24/7 playing. I play quite a bit, but if the server goes down for 3 days in a row, I'm not going to nerd rage. If I get stuck running in place, I'm not going to scream in general chat about how shitty the game is, either. I wish it didn't happen, but life goes on.

Really? I can make the BH's DPS purple mods now, and I only have the mats for two of them atm haha. I just dinged lv 50 and bought all the training so I'm BROKE like no tomorrow (had to borrow 100K from my SI)!

It's good to know that I can make mods for good credits. It might be worth investing into the other mods for all the classes then.

If you guys want to complain about SWTOR, you should talk about how the hard/nightmare raids are pathetically easy. But I think you would have had to do them in order to do that.

Sandbox vs. Themepark: There's no argument here. It's a popular one to make at the moment, but please show me a non-themepark MMO. I'll wait...

Cover is for snipers, not operatives. And it's not useless. Do some research. I'll help you out a bit. You have DR abilities that are triggered from cover, it requires some skill to maximize movement and keep your dps uptime constant, etc. What would you like to see on top of this?

Shit design. heh. You may not like it, but it's not shit design. Stop being a douchebag.

You're not failing to make your point, I just disagree that it's such a horrible fucking problem. Here are your leveling options: Quests; PVP; Space Missions; Flashpoints. That's plenty for me. Perhaps in 6 months this lack of content will start to chafe, but having played MMO's for years and years, my playstyle is to get the fuck out of levels 1-49 as quickly as possible. They need to add more max level content a lot more than they need to give you the option to level on other planets.

You're not listening, and for a guy pissing about how this game is not innovative, I'd think you would be able to distinguish. Leveling and single player content are not the same. I like the quests and storyline. I don't like having to grind through it to get to the point where I can start gearing.

An mmo that starts you at max level and uses the quest/storyline system to incentivize you for gear or other abilities would be really nice. That way, every time I want to try a new toon, I don't have a timesink ahead of me to get to the point where I really want to be.

Here's the bottom line: You don't like mmo's anymore. I get it. Don't play them anymore. They are not going to change in the fundamental way you want them to. I just can't understand why you're so surprised. Sounds like you wasted a ton of time playing this game. You ordered an mmo, and... it's an mmo!

I make the purple "Advanced Keen Mod 22" and sell them for 75k each. Lots of Sith Warriors use Quinn, so these mods are a pretty hot item (I assume that's who is buying them). They rarely last more than a few hours in the GTN.

Thanks for the information, Neesha. I'm going to give it a try on my server, and see how it goes. After making my lv 50 speeder, I'm all out of the purple underworld trading metals.

I keep sending my companions, but the metals are pretty rare so far. I had 10 and all ten are gone for the speeder.

Well money really won't be an issue for you anymore if you are 50. Unless you need to pay repair bills for raiding, of course (which you don't) - my last repair bill was over 50k. Doing the daily quests on Belsavis alone will net you 100k credits after the quest rewards and vendoring all of the greens/grays. You also get 1-2 purple mods that you can sell in the GTN for 40-60k each. So if you play your cards right, you can easily make 200k credits a day just doing daily quests.

I'll try and do some of the dailies then...that's some good money and I want to save up for the 1.5 million speeders too.

And, my Sorcerer is lv 47 and should be lv 50 in the next few days...so even more income to be had

The problem isn't that tradeskills are useless, the problem is that Biochem is simply TOO useful and since everyone flocks to it, Bioanalysis is a gigantic money farm. My BH alt had over a million credits of his own before level 35, just sending companions off on Bioanalysis missions and selling the mats.

Wow for real Bovinity? Hmm I might drop slicing then because I can make some good credits of purple augments, but they are not too common and I have not been sending out my companions much at all since the nerf.

I just hope Bioanalysis mats still sell well on my server.

On my server I sell red goo 50k per stack of 10. That's undercutting others. Bioanalysis along with slicing had a 3 million credit cash pile after training and all speeders bought for my alt when he hit 50.

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Generally speaking if you're broke at 50 for more than 3-4 days you're doing something wrong. You can make 110k in just over an hour doing all of the space dailies, not to mention the belsavis/ilum dailies.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I'm curious, from those of you who are disappointed in SWTOR, is there a current game out that hits "most" of the things you want to see in a game? You can PM me if you don't want this spiraling out of control. I'm not looking to debate..just would like to see if those who are unhappy with this game have hit a level of "all of them suck" with MMO gaming in general?

I definitely am not overall happy with SWTOR. It's a break for now, and in that purpose it's fine...but long term playability just doesn't seem there for me.

Just curious, for those who aren't enjoying this, what is the one game out that you'd most like to go back to..that gave you the most overall enjoyment?

Elemynt/Jason

Every time that Blizzard does a content push for WoW, I find myself playing and enjoying it for a few weeks/months until I've done all there is to do (again).

I doubt many people here will agree with me, but WoW is, imo, the best MMO out there right now, and will be for some time to come. We all talk shit about it from time to time, but it's always there, waiting.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

It's hard to argue. It has so many features piled one on top of the other over the years. I've made a conscious decision to leave it alone for a while, as I just don't want to invest the time anymore. I haven't touched it since the last content patch. It's not a bad game, though. I'm just ready for something new.

To the OP, nope, nothing for me. Just playing through some single player games. Real busy at work this month so it's working out well in that regard.

Sounds like exactly what people are talking about doing in swtor right now.

Sometimes I think that the heavy focus on manufactured content just won't make some of us happy anymore, we need that social content that we got in some older MMOs.

Actually I think the manufactured content is really all I give a crap about anymore.

"oh new lore" *investigate*
"oh new dungeon" *run dungeon until I have all the gear I need*
"oh new raid" *run raid 2-3 times*

wait two weeks... do the same thing over again with an alt.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

So what else is out there?

After EQ, we all wandered through so many other MMO's.
DaoC, Vanguard, Conan, etc etc
I actually dusted off the free CoH/CoV, but after character creation it's pretty repetitive and constrained. It really lacks an active community like WoW.
swtor just got boring as a single player mmo.
EQ forced grouping. Is forced grouping to move forward the missing element?

I want to play something MMO'ish, but they're all so damn predictable.
I'm tempted to just play BF3, and MW3 on xbox, and give in to twitch FPS and give up on MMO's.

Imo, yes. And sadly, as nice as quests are, using them as the primary method of leveling is also a hindrance. They severely limit the social aspect of the game as instead of limiting grouping to just the appropriate level range and gear level, it further adds the limitation of working on the same quest(s) and being on the same stages.

Only grouping with your friends is fine, but judging by how quickly everyone is getting burnt out on the newer MMOs, it isn't enough. Developers can only manufacture content so fast, after that the games rely on social interaction and artificial slowing of progression to keep the game entertaining.

Seems to be a recurring theme here from us old-timers. Problem is, it doesn't seem to be a popular viewpoint anymore, everyone just wants to solo their way through nerfed content and then whine about there being nothing to do.

Silly as this might be, I've actually been playing on a UO freeshard for the past month. It's old, it's clunky and has 1997 graphics but I'm actually finding myself entertained doing stuff.

I had to bail on WoW. I just couldn't do it anymore.

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

I'm not sure that that is the case. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't really been any MMOs come out that contain forced grouping as the primary method of leveling and progressing. Without that, I'm not really willing to put up the "Stay off my lawn!" sign yet.

FFXI basically made grouping a requirement IIRC.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Not sure I follow, you mean that no recent MMO has tried it, so we don't really know if it'd work or not?

Anyway, I joined a guild in swtor and the first 2 days of raiding we downed Nightmare Mode Soa, I got 3 Rakata pieces and Binnie got like...8. Sheesh. The tuning is just sooooooo forgiving it's insane.

Not only that but it was so rigidly balanced that you just about had to have a permanent group of specific jobs and subs. They changed it after the second expansion, where it became possible to solo with a lot of classes and minimal downtime.

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Trying it today, on Empire US East.
Name Worthy.
Playing a healer.

New high res textures coming soon. And by soon I mean finally. Also something about new/different space combat.

GET HYPE BITCHES! NECRO THIS BITCH HARD, SON!

P.S.

Anybody that was on Kaas City, which is now Jedi Covenant, log in and give me your credits/Krayt Dragon Scales please. Thank you.

I'm playing the game and going thru about 4 chars (two are below 40), and having fun with the new expan story line. Looking forward to the high def textures soon

I started back up about a month or two ago. I'm enjoying it now, more than I did before. Not sure why. I never did max out any character, so maybe it's just the storyline of my agent that's keeping my interest. Regardless, I'm having fun so far.

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How much does EA charge me to find out how many credits I have?

Isn't it free to play now? I'd assume you can just install and log in.