My little guild got put on Giradda the Hutt. Disturbing Lack of Faith. That sucks

http://www.swtor.com/guilds/229867/dist ... lack-faith

Lol my guilds on a server called Space Slug. Wtf

http://www.swtor.com/guilds/227431/premonition

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Second Covenant was placed on Lord Prevan.
http://www.swtor.com/guilds/237698/second-covenant

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Nil Desperandum is on Grand Master Zym.

Who is in that one?

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Musnicki

Drajeck,

Me, Xolar and Zeronus are looking for some tough PvP action. They said all the tough guilds are on The Crucible Pits.... any word who landed on your server?

We may be seeing you on there if you guys don't mind a little extra old school company.

Muli

Sure think Muligan, I'm Drajeck again (shocking I know), just shoot me a tell. I'm not sure what other guilds are on the server, I don't bother with the "so and so has the best players" stuff...it's all conjecture anyway. We have 20ish people right now though (mostly old Mithril Web and friends/family) so we have enough to field a decent PvP or PvE force regardless of who else is on the server.

Turbo, Hhug and me on Mandalore the Indomitable PVP Empire side

20's already huh? We still haven't received our invites as of yet. We jump on a fresh server though i'll leave it up to the group. We would like to be around a few familiar faces and a server that has a healthy population. I've heard Po5 has some mature players and plenty of solid PvP. Curious if the first day servers have any newbie zone activity at all.

Not yet. I just hit level 15 and I haven't seen an Empire player at all yet, but I think the next leveling zone will be a shared area. I wouldn't worry about people being level 20 already, regardless of the level difference they are only 2 days ahead. In a couple weeks the extra days will be inconsequential.

How do you like the server community? I'm been eyeballing the forums from work each day and I see a lot of "Join Anchorhead", "Veela has the best open world PvP", etc...

I do not see a lot of advertisement for the server which I personally take as a good thing since most of those people seem like morons....

I got up to the low 20s and didn't see any mixed populations in Balmora (15-20) or Nar Shadda (20-25).

Are the shared zones limited to certain level ranges?

Or are we going to have the packs of level 50 nerds in another day or so steamrolling everyone in their low 20s who are trying to xp, just to build their epeens?

I got in yesterday at around noon and I got up to level 17... so far the server community is pretty good. Found PUGs for flashpoints and elite missions pretty easily, and there's a high competency level so far. Probably due to early adopters generally being better than general population.

Having a blast. The biggest disappointment, frankly, is that I will greatly outstrip my more casual friends who either haven't gotten in yet or are going to be traveling for the holidays.

I have applied to be in Nil, haven't heard anything back yet. I am still waiting to get in the game as well.

I wasn't in any of the beta's so I have not finalized what character I will roll first. I am debating on the Sith Warrior or Sith Inquisitor.

I can say that Force users are definitely overrepresented right now.

I'm guilty of it too, but my first alt is def going to be a BH.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Kaas City server is where it's at people. Hurry

Gabbath, the Sith Warrior is in Kaas City...

Update: I'm now in "Give In To Your Anger" on the same server. Any are welcome to join

I guess Nil Desperandum is in the process of closing?

For the better part of the past few weeks when I log in, there may be one other person on...

Anyone got a home for a new 50 Jugg on Kaas City?

I'm in <Harmonium> on Kaas City now (Peno, Marauder). Vita is still there, but they are pretty casual and not raid-ready at this time.

I moved Gab to Vita.

I don't care about raid ready, I just want to log on and to be able to do some group stuff. Constantly logging on and seeing 1 or 2 in the guild is sad.

Word

Heh, sounds like the Lanys Rift guild.

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

You guys are surprised by this for some reason.

Probably because both games had the longevity of a Worthy post.

Meh, to each his own. I'm still have a great time in the game.

Same here Neesha...same here. I just think Givin is jaded, and will never find an MMO that will be good enough for him

I still have fun when I play, I just don't play nearly as much as I once did, and even then -- mostly alts.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

This. I've cleared 16 man nightmare mode for this tier, so I'm currently playing a republic-side character to see the storyline when I'm not raiding.

That and replaying Mass Effect 1 and 2 in anticipation of 3 in a month.

Ah yeah, I should do that too so I have a save game ready to import...

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I think the main thing here is that everyone is getting older and setting more priorities over video gaming. I'm having a great time with SWTOR, but I play casually about 3 times a week for an hour or two at a time. With kids now and just life in general it's a lot harder for most of us to put the time and effort into a video game, that is meaningless in the great scheme of things, that we used to.

SWTOR was an incredible single-player (potential co-op) game ruined by all the bullshit MMO aspects.

Yep, there's that. I still enjoy the game, but I don't have the crazy dedication/fervor that I had back when I played EQ, for instance. I dunno if I'd camp Raster/Targin in any game today, for instance.

There's also the fact that I don't believe people realize what really keeps them playing MMO's. Watching how people react to a new one is often a good insight into their motivations.

I hear a lot of people saying, "I hit 50 in ToR, got some gear, raided a couple times, I guess that's about all, I'm just hanging out in the space station, I quit." and I think...did games like EQ and WoW really have much more to do, or were you just more attached to the community and had more emotions/time investmented in the game so you tolerated just "sitting in Org talking" and such?

Barring retarded cockblock timesinks, there's really not an MMO in existance where players with a small amount of organization and motivation won't just steamroll all the content fairly quickly anyway, so is it really content by itself that keeps players around?

Bov you make some good points there, and I'll tell you what keeps me playing are the class story lines. I plan on playing thru all 8 classes, and after that I might be pretty much done with the game (not counting expans and new story content).

I will gear up a few and PvP a few times a week, but I have never been a raider...so I figure SW:TOR will keep me busy playing thru the class content alone.

Being a huge fan of KOTOR, I am loving all the story where we are learning more about the Rakata and chars like Reven (what happened to him after KOTOR)

I HAD planned on doing that, but if there's one complaint I have about the game it's the leveling curve and ratio of storyline quests to side quests.

It's a huge amount of fun going through just the storyline, until you realize you're now 5 levels behind the mobs in the next chapter and have to do a ton of side stuff to catch up, and then there's only two actual storyline missions you can do before they ramp up in level again (And only gave you 1/10th of a level worth of XP) so you're back to all the side stuff that's the same on each character, etc etc.

yeah, and I was in that too...

I am enjoying TOR. Gab is just now 50 and just got his Darth title.

Sad thing is that I have done zero flashpoints with him. I have done a few Heroic 4's but not many. You'd think that a tank Jugg wouldn't have that many issues getting Flashpoints for better gear upgrades.

I think that I am between leveling curves with Gab. The initial group of push to 50's have already moved on to full time raids/pvp or on their 2nd or 3rd alt. I am seeing a lot more grouping activity with Gh'anni. With the large number of sorcs, you'd think that I'd have a more difficult time getting a group with her. It seems that you can more easily get away with two Sorc's in a group than you can with two Jugs (either one can heal and/or DPS, both have CC, etc). I have done several heroics and a couple flashpoints with Gh'anni and she is not yet 25, and already Social II. Where Gab is not even half-way through Social I.

I like the varied class quests. I also have a Sniper that I am leveling. To me it seems like a totally different game than playing a Sith War/Inq.

I think if you play the game with people you enjoy being around, it makes it that much better. On the flip side, if you play with a bunch of negative nancy-types, the game... any game... won't be as enjoyable. In other words, I don't think the problem is the game.

Yeah, tanks - at lower levels - seem entirely worthless. You're better off running any instance with 1 DPS, 1 Healer, and 2 DPS companions. My wife and I have 2-manned pretty much every flashpoint (except ones that won't let you - Hi Colicoid!) up to 50 this way. We tried to do the same with her healing and me playing my Guardian as a tank and it wasn't anywhere near as effective, sadly.

Except, it IS the game, Neesha, I'm sorry.

Crewskills - Slicing, Biochem. Everything else is WORTHLESS.
Flashpoints - The flawed itemization really makes me not give a shit after I've already done it once.
PVP - Improved, but still fucking retarded. They should've focused on core PVE balance, and implemented PVP with a completely separate skills/equipment progression. They're currently making balancing decisions for both aspects with the same trees/itemization.
UI - It's dogshit. It would be dogshit in a single-player game. When a patch is adding "movable elements" as a feature, your game wasn't finished to start with.
Progression - This was advertised to be a MASSIVE world, but in reality, with the exception of the mostly incredible class storylines, its progression is basically the same as the space missions - on rails.

There's just no exploration in this game. The voice acting grabs you, and pulls you in...until you then have to hit the drudgery again as you realize with great disappointment that the worlds are dead. Where's the choice in venue? Where's the sprawling urban cities? Where's the original content? What made KOTOR so awesome was not relying too heavily on canon and exploring a unique world in a single playthrough. You cannot take that same mindset and then create an MMO from it.

I WANT to like this game. And I think if they develop more into it, a lot of the issues are fixable. I'm just tired of paying these massive gaming companies to test their broken shit that EVERYONE else long ago figured out was flawed in this genre. You can talk all you want about how "jaded" everyone is, but if you were in Vent when Sola, Givin, myself and others were trying to make it work, you would realize that sometimes community just isn't enough to make it not suck.

If you find it fun, great, that's all that matters. But don't tell me it's my fault that I can see the shit for what it is and not call it Chocolate Rain. This game is NOT what they advertised it to be.

It's *exactly* as advertised. It is an mmo with a strong single player storyline. What were you expecting? That's what I was expecting...

I agree that is [quite] a bit too linear, but I never expected to just be able to go to any number of planets/cities and start questing. I don't think that's practical. WoW was able to accomplish it, somewhat, but everyone pretty much ended up in the same place anyway. Where WoW had the advantage was how you could start on two different continents and play through until max level.

I don't think SWTOR is a worse game because you cannot do this, however. I just think perhaps a certain number of people are placing false expectations on games. Rift was going to be 'the one' for lots of you, but it failed. Aion was going to be 'the one that gets shit right' but it failed. SWTOR has engrossing storylines, pretty fun PVP, and pretty good raid content, and it's fucking STAR WARS, but it's a 'bullshit MMORPG'. What's next?

Tera? I've seen enough of that game to know it will suck for everyone other than Asians or people who want to pretend they are Asian.

Guild Wars 2? This one has lots of hype and HUGE expectations. But I question how the game can succeed long-term without a subscription model. I'd love to hear some non-biased beta feedback on it.

I think a game could come out that sends supermodels to your houses to give you blow jobs while you leveled up and some of you would still bitch that she spit instead of swallowed.

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What he said. BioWare said from day one it's all about the story, and the game has delivered on that and then some! Sounds like Elessar is also jaded because he forgets that EVERY ******* MMO starts out with "useless" tradeskills at first, or they do take some time to become worth a damn.

As for the other issues Elessar lists...time can fix them too. You can not tell me EQ did not have issues at launch LOL or other games like WoW too.

The answer to that is, "but this game should have known better and we shouldn't have to wait for them to fix obvious stupid stuff - like auto-stacking not working in the cargo hold" (it works now).

I was expecting the massive universe of multiple planets. And hey, maybe I'm guilty of hype here, and it would be a fair criticism. That doesn't make the shitty elements less shitty. It's almost as if the AMAZING single player game was mugged and fucked by the MMO bit.



That would be phenomenal if so. Unfortunately, for some, an overweight mangina with a proclivity for BDSM and a fleshlight dressed up like a lightsaber is good enough to be considered a suitable substitution.

Now, mangina insults out of the way, and we're looking at hyperbole either way. If I had to make a real analogy, this game is more like we got Ugly Betty rather than supermodels, serviceable and mildly fuckable. And instead of blowjobs while we level, we get them on birthdays and the anniversary. Just enough to remind you she can work that shit when she wants to, but she doesn't actually have to since she knows you'll shut the fuck up and take what you can get.

There's just NO excuse for some of the aborted mess that's present. And while I don't expect it have the content that 5-10 year old games have, SOME level of variety outside of the all too brief storyline quests would be fantastic in a genre that is DEPENDENT ON IT. Deciding on whether you'd like to do the Balmorra Bonus Series isn't variety.



LOL it has the same LOL problems LOL as an LOL DECADE YEAR LOL GAME LOL! That makes it ok then. Bioware, of all people, are better than this...until they're not. That's part of what makes this so fucking depressing. If "all tradeskills are worthless at first" as a genre requirement, then don't fucking include them until they are done. You see, allowing folks to build legacy experience is something I get. If you're going to implement an unfinished mechanic, that's how you do it so folks don't feel penalized for jumping in early. I'm not jaded, I'm just tired of being handed unfinished shit and folks are incredulous that I don't think "But the patchezZz..." forgives this.

The point is it takes time for an MMO to dev and improve over time. No game is going to be "perfect" at launch



Really? You do know BioWare has to follow the Star Wars time line, and there are a lot of planets that are unknown during this time frame. And, there are not "massive" universe of planets in the Star Wars universe with life. Planets with life is kinda of rare, but there are still a lot BioWare can add via download and expans.

Come on man...are you new to MMO's? EQ and every other major MMO have had tons of new areas (aka planets for this game) added over the years. I'm thinking you are bitching just to bitch

And I'm telling you that apologist line of thought is EXACTLY why they aren't even close.



Your first paragraph quoted here is fucking stupid and deserves no response, but I'll bite just once this time. The KOTOR timeline exists BECAUSE FUCKING BIOWARE CREATED IT TO START WITH. That's why it's so far in the past. My reference to massive universe had more to do with the initial reports about this spanning multiple games worth of content to highlight the variety. Unfortunately, it's variety of a rigidly linear nature.

As for your second paragraph here, I addressed this if you'd bothered reading. I'm not expecting 5-10 years worth of content at release. What I DO expect is SOME diversity and alternate paths (class quests notwithstanding) in this content.

I'm not new to MMO's, asshole. You need something more than, "But WoW, but EQ, but..." or "ur just grouchy and ghey lol amirite?" to counter any particular point. Is having an unfinished and inflexible UI justified in this day and age? Why? Is having an abortion of a tradeskill mechanic really okay because games far older that might not have known better did the same thing?

I don't want it to be perfect, I want it to be more than a half baked product that has a plethora of bugs that were reported in *early fucking beta* Granted, EA is most likely to blame for a rushed release schedule, but Bioware hasn't exactly been quick to fix bugs. Remember when EQ had patches nearly every day for a month when they released? The same was true for expansions, and even WOW has had moments where they've released several minor revisions in a week. Bioware hasn't had that sort of speed, which makes me wonder if they have more than one QA person who's spent so much time in the basement he looks like Smeagol.



Really? You do know BioWare has to follow the Star Wars time line, and there are a lot of planets that are unknown during this time frame. And, there are not "massive" universe of planets in the Star Wars universe with life. Planets with life is kinda of rare, but there are still a lot BioWare can add via download and expans.
[/quote]

To reiterate what Elessar said... Bioware has COMPLETE CREATIVE CONTROL over the KOTOR/SWTOR universe, to the extent that they cannot do anything that will (long term) alter the SW universe and make Episodes 1-6 paradoxical. This basically just means that the "movie planets" (hoth, alderaan, coruscant, tatooine) need to be left there. Bioware created a lot of original content for KOTOR, but the only really original shit they created for SWTOR was Voss, and even that's semi-questionable.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

If you don't like the game why are you even posting about it then?

The game is only two months old, and I do agree some major features are missing...which is odd to me like no Dual Specs, and a limited UI!! I guess I'm more forgiving than you are then.



Many I misunderstood you, because I never read any claims of massive amount of planets by BioWare.

I think BioWare's main focus is the story in SW:TOR, and everything else was second to that. But people get tired of all the neg posts and how much the game sucks. SW:TOR has issues I know, but I don't think you and Givin will ever find an MMO that's perfect (that you love) again.

At least with every new MMO release, we will be able to read the posts about how much it sucks, and it's a waste of people's time

[quote="Vanamar"]To reiterate what Elessar said... Bioware has COMPLETE CREATIVE CONTROL over the KOTOR/SWTOR universe, to the extent that they cannot do anything that will (long term) alter the SW universe and make Episodes 1-6 paradoxical. This basically just means that the "movie planets" (hoth, alderaan, coruscant, tatooine) need to be left there. Bioware created a lot of original content for KOTOR, but the only really original shit they created for SWTOR was Voss, and even that's semi-questionable.[/quote]

I understand what he said and means, but I know how companies work. They are going to use expans for addition planets (major content) to add to the game. Also, each of the planets that are in place can be expanded as well.

When he posted "massive" I thought of at least 30+ planets, and that was not going to happen. That's why I was hard on Elessar....but I took it as bitching just for the hell of it

One question I have, is are you even capable of having a negative opinion? =P

I love swtor. I just wish that it wasn't like an abusive spouse.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

*sigh*. I don't want, nor expect, perfect. What I want is MORE than the status quo. What I want is a complete game and not a beta. Minor bugs and shit are fine, it happens. Balancing issues, sure.

But crewskills are broken, PVE skills are tuned to meet PVP needs, credits are effectively worthless beyond the utterly useless moneysink that is crewskills (which don't even generate quality end-game content) and the 2nd and 3rd levels of pointless speeder upgrades, and the one thing that REALLY pisses me off that I didn't mention previously?

Removed. Hires. Textures. Fucking bullshit, that one.

And as for the planets, again, it's not quantity as much as it is quality and variety. There's a few worlds I absolutely enjoyed. But I didn't enjoy them enough that I will plod through them again, in the exact same REQUIRED order, just so I can experience the remaining class storylines. Trust me, I tried, and it got tedious very quickly, even with the exploration of the light/dark side options, which outside of your class storylines, usually end with the equivalent of "Grr, you're bad and mean. Let's move on as if that didn't happen, shall we?" or "We did it! Hooray, friends and allies!"

I don't want a perfect game. I just want a working one. Dickheads (in the gaming world, I'm sure you're very nice irl) like you are the reason they're released this way to start with. I'm posting about it because folks like you were pointing out how butthurt they were because people quit. Not because it didn't meet our lofty arugula-eating elitist expectations, but because we REALLY wanted this game to work, and it just...didn't. And that was a sad realization.

I won't comment on whether you're more forgiving than I am. But you're certainly more naive.

You're entitled to your opinions..

But there's a fair bit of factual errors and what looks like just a blind misunderstanding of how an MMO can work. Weird, coming from you. The best example of this is the idea that somehow you can design a leveling experience that ISN'T linear. You could do it like Skyrim, and scale enemies to your level, but how does that work in an mmo, exactly? It doesn't, because it can't. Linear leveling isn't new to SWTOR, nor MMO's. What's your solution?

That's just flat out incorrect.

Broken? How are they broken? Undertuned/overtuned/need to be tweaked... but broken?

Other than the principle behind this, what's the problem here? Are the changes you see really bad for PVE? Name some tweaks made for the sake of PVP that have severely damaged PVE.

That's sort of true. Once you get geared. The biggest items to spend cash on the GTN for are the magenta crystals. After that, the fact that you can quickly gear up to pre-raid level on a fresh level 50 is sort of nice, and not doable in other mmo's, isn't it..? I can hit 50 and find enough level 118-126 stuff on the GTN to do HM flashpoints immediately. Other games I have to grind shitty dungeons for days/weeks to do so.

But shit.. I've never played an mmo where farming credits/gold was any sort of incentive whatsoever, so to each their own.

WoW did it. There's a certain amount of linearity to it, sure, but at least it's tree branches, and there are 2-4 areas for each level group (at least until you hit Outland, at that point I want to shove a fork in my eyes because Outland is terrible.

They fucking admitted they disabled hires textures in the graphical options and that the "high" actually meant "medium", because they were afraid that having cutscene quality textures active all the time would cause major performance problems. Want proof? Ctrl-click and item to preview it on your character, then switch to your companion. Companion item preview gets cutscene textures, you get ghetto pixelation.


Broken as in useless, except for Biochem and the reusable medpack/stims, and Slicing for the infinite credits it generates.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I would not say naive, but all I wanted from SW:TOR was a good story line, and so far I have got that from the game



I'm not butthurt about anyone quitting the game,or dislike it...but there is a lot of neg comments over the years, and it gets old (not just this game btw). I understand why people used to get pissed off at me, back on Vita's boards. I would always post neg stuff, and I can see why they did not listen to me after a while. It gets old to read neg replies all the time.

And you did list some good points comparing SW:TOR to other BioWare games. But I think the MMO space is not going to be as deep and rewarding as an epic single player RPG in my eyes. I did not think for once that SW:TOR was going to have the freedoms single player games have.

And as for the rails comments...I'll use the quote below. Well said btw

So you're willing to pay $15/month for what amounts to a single player game?

I have some oceanfront property in Arizona...

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

No it doesn't. Every expansion is completely linear. There is no option on where to level. Do you mean 1-60? Who fucking cares?

Unless you're a conspiracy theorist, the actual company line was that there ARE no medium textures, that there was an extra option in the preferences by mistake, and that they didn't enable the "Cutscene" textures for performance reason. Is the current message board theory that the cutscene textures are the missing high res textures and that Bioware doesn't want you to have them because they're a big evil company?

Slicing hasn't been profitable in months. Is there a game with a more relevant crafting system? Other than wow's "every profession gets the exact same endgame benefit" that, I guess, you want SWTOR to now model? It needs some work, but broken is a gross exaggeration.

Er, slicing is mega profitable still. It's just not broken levels of profitable.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]