A handful of minutes wouldn't put someone anywhere near some PvP to hate.

Sarissa Candyangel

I hate PVP in general, in any MMO game.

Translated:
"I logged into the game, unwilling to give it a fair trial, having already decided this was a PVP game. I stood at the newbie starting area, spun in a slow circle, and logged out after 3 minutes, reassured that my unfounded opinion had not been challenged and that I was still inherently right in all things."

I'm not saying the game is good or bad. Simply that I don't enjoy PVP and I know that War doesn't have enough to offer me to play it on the PVE end. I don't even play WoW right now, as I'm extremely tired of it after 4 years and busy w/ work and preparing to move, so, I mean -- I'm not saying it's a great or terrible game, just simply what I noticed upon my initial 3 minute expose into the Age of Reckoning.

Also, as an outside observer I think that I can tell it looks exactly like a cookie-cutter clone of WoW, but as I said, since WoW has perfected most facets of MMOs, it's hard to do anything new or outside of the box, and you can't really hold that against anyone.

So you think there is a lack of PvE stuff to do? HAHHAHAHAHA

It's not a secret that the game is PVP-Centric, and as such, likely will always be designed around that. I want a PVE game primarily, with little to no PVP at all. I don't PVP though so as long as PVE is the main focus (like in WoW, EQ, etc) then I'm golden.

You remind me of me in the Spore thread.

ps: Spore is stupid

Haha. How bout them Rockets now Neesha?!

Ron Artest is my new favorite player.

Me too, Amare said he wants to be just like him, which is good imo. Artest chokes people up on D.

Not to defend Skycrasher here or anything, but I'd tend to say it's at least less PVE-centric than WoW is. It's not that there isn't any PVE to do, it's that Warhammer's PVE is rather stale and boring with too many NPC bugs to count(pathing, "retreating/evading" when it shouldn't, mobs charging you then doubling back then charging you again while jumping around wildly on your screen, dead mobs standing up all over the place). I guess the King's raids sound kinda cool, but I haven't heard of too much beyond that and your usual questing content/public quests.

The PVP is the core, and I love it. I've never understood people who dislike PVP in MMOs honestly... heaven forbid people enjoy the most challenging aspect of MMORPGs hands down, and the one where human beings actually think rather than churned out scripted content.

Beyond me, honestly.

One other PVE bug I've seen a lot is where you compelete a public quest - kill one of the end guys, the other end guy registers as being killed but one doesn't even though his corpse is right in front of you. I've seen it 3 times now.

Not nagging on the game, it's beautiful for its PVP and quite enjoyable, it's just not a very great PVE game. Not to say I don't like some of the PVE content either, Public Quests can be very enjoyable with a decent group of people. It's just not the best =)

I haven't seen any of these bugs, honestly, other than the pathing ones.

I dislike PvP in a MMORPG game. I guess to each their own, I know a lot of players like it. As far as churned out content... yeah, after it has been beaten hundreds of times by other guilds/people and you know the script then it isn't that much fun- just executing what you already know. But I always wanted to be on the cutting edge, to experience content without knowing how to do it. That is far more fun and enjoyable- the repeated deaths and learning about an encounter to finally kill it for the first time.

Then, of course, it becomes a boring ass grind fest... probably also why I am done with MMORPGs for the time being. I can only kill so many minotaurs for faction before I just go nuts lol.

Glad all you guys are enjoying and having fun with it. I know a lot of you guys left EQ and have tried nearly all the other so-called "EQ killers" only to repeatedly be disappointed. Even those who were all over WoW realized after a few months how insanely easy it is (as well as the pain that is, the .bnet kiddies). So glad you guys have something that can provide enjoyment and happiness gaming wise

_________________

What experiences with PVP in a MMORPG do you have?

I'm not saying PVE raids can't be enjoyable, I just don't think they offer the challenge that PVP does. And, in many ways I find PVP more fun because there is, again, a HUMAN brain and therefore more variability behind it. PVE is like a puzzle - once you figure it out, you're done. PVP offers *infinitely* many puzzles(assuming the game afford players an appropriate level on which to perform tactically and strategically, WoW is beginning to show its limits there especially in regard to content) because the human brain can form infinitely many different tactics and countertactics(again, assuming those are available). I prefer not to be bound by a limited computer AI if I have a choice, but again raids can still be great fun working with other people.

As for "knowing the content", I've raided many times where our raid leader simply says: "Go in and smash stuff" with no review of tactics whatsoever, even though a few people have read the fight, there are still quite a few(and me included on several such occasions) that know absolutely nothing about it. So you don't need to be on the cutting edge to do that. I guess that's a thrill for some, I didn't see anything exciting about it.



WoW pleased even the most hardcore nostalgic EQer for years, for both PVE and PVP content. It IS the EQ killer - not just of subscribers, but of general gameplay. It is superior in almost every respect. Yes, I'll agree its easier in general, but there's still much fun to be had in both PVE and PVP.

So yea, we looked for the EQ killer, and found it. I don't think too many of us were disappointed, and that comes from someone who has bashed certain aspects of WoW repeatedly here and elsewhere. 4 years is a long time to be playing any one game, and WoW has been showing its age of late - but that doesn't mean it didn't smash EQ into the ground.

While levelling may have been easier in WoW than in EQ, I don't think anyone who actually played the game and raided would say that WoW was easier overall than EQ. What strat was involved in killing Vindi? Tank, Rampage Tank, Complete Heal Rotation, DPS, heal the DPS, position him in the corner. What strat was involved in killing countless other mobs? Tank, Rampage Tank, Complete Heal Rotation, DPS, heal the DPS, position him in the corner. I'll go out on a limb and say that Cicely probably knows as much about WoW as Skycrasher knows about Warhammer.

People like to hang on to ideas that are 3+ years old.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I guess I should say easier not necessarily because of tactics, but because of general things we sorta take for granted(not that they're bad things). Spending countless days and nights just to keep up leveling, AA's, etc. Plane of Fear corpse runs spanning through the night(and corpse runs in general). Epic quests. Collecting those goddamned shards for keys. INSANELY long raids(some of the first Plane of Growth raids come to mind, as well as early Vex Thal).

Not all of those are good things, and perhaps it could all be chalked up as a grind. Hard, or perhaps the proper term would be useless annoyance, depending on your perspective.

I will agree that WoW is harder in terms of overall strategy and tactics for raid bosses. In a WoW raid, you seriously have to have *everyone* participate in order to succeed. In EQ it was all but autoattack and afk. And certainly for PVP... because... well... EQ had none =)

Maybe this was the case before PoP but this is certainly not the case anymore... Rathe council, good luck with the auto attack + afk strat... Any Gates of Discord or Omen of Wars boss too. (havent played in raid past those so I can't comment on the new expansions)

Yea, I know the raids are different now. The debate has been rehashed over and over again. If you read Cicely's post, he wasn't talking about the differences in the game today. He was referring to people quitting EQ and playing WoW and realizing how easy it was and being disappointed. I simply said that wasn't the case.

Rathe Council as I recall just position your tanks at each tank spot, and they're all but good to go afk. Chanters and CC'ers in that little alcove, they can pretty much afk in between CCs. Healers planted at tank and CC spots, /yawnfest heal rotation. DPSers and healers following around those dpsers as they moved from mob to mob was probably the most "exciting" part of it. I raided a few bosses in GoD in the kotanz(sp)/ikkinz area and didn't see much difference, same with PoTime.

On top of that it was just a button mash. In WoW whether you're dps, healing, or tanking you need to be very specific in both order and timing of your skills or you fall short - and maybe even wipe the raid. I'm pretty sure even 20 people completely fucking up in a 72-man council raid you were still good to go. To have that percentage of suck in a WoW raid you would need to completely outgear the encounter to overcome it. WoW raids are simply leaps and bounds above what EQ's raids were, I can't even begin to describe it.

venen, perhaps you have a low opinion of pve content's challenge because you guys used to take 100 people to PoP raids.

ZING!

In all honesty though, one only needs to look at a few videos of guilds doing raids in EQ(some considered the "hardcore" of the time) and even a casual observer can tell you that there's not as much movement going on nor general ability usage on a moment to moment basis when compared to WoW. Any half-second timing of tactical ability use? Only if someone screws up a heal somewhere in the rotation.

I'm just hoping no one would have us believe that there was a *drastic* change in individual tactics and contributions to raids from the tank and spank of Velious and Luclin to the PoP/GoD era. A marginal change for sure, but as game-changing as WoW? I will admit OoW was getting closer from the limited amount I saw of it.

What a difference a populated server makes. I rolled a Black Orc on Azzazel, and the game is orders of magnitude more fun now that I can actually complete PQs and compete in scenarios at all.

It's all a progression...

EQ1 had UI mods, WoW took it to the next level and incorporated a lot of them. Also developed a full xml platform to do mods. I noticed playing AoC a lot of features folks ui modded in were standard in their interface. WAR is no different, they take progression to the next step.

PvP is wonderful if you don't have copius amounts of time to play. You can jump in, do a couple scenario's, do some PQ's, do a war party in some RvR and jump off. A couple hours and you still level, still get renown ranks, and can BUY WITH COIN improved gear instead of needing to save 14,000 honor. You never feel as if you're not progressing with each short session.

To me WAR innovations are:
- PQ's where folks can wander into a region and join into 3 stages without being grouped
- Renown ranks allowing progress via scenario's and RvR to allow buying gear
- War Parties to grab a bunch of folks and do RvR keeps, and flags

Also the classes are well balanced. Healers are not healbots, and tanks do decent dmg.

Just to side track the thread here for a moment, I wanted to bring to attention a few technical pieces of help for people with Nvidia series 8 cards or higher. Apparently, the Nvidia drivers suck for this game and the dev's know it and don't know how to fix it. After some tweaking and some investigation, there's a few ways to make your chopiness, lag, jerkiness, blackscreen / CTD / bluescreens of death go away if you're an nvidia user.

1. Complete uninstall the drivers you have, especially if they are the 175.19 version. This release, both beta and the whql versions are buggy as hell and have broken a ton of shit, especially in Vista64.

2. Download the 177.92 drivers, if you're using XP 32, they will be in the beta section of the Nvidia webpage, but they are a hell of a lot better and bug free compared to the 175.19 drivers.

3. Go into the Nvidia control panel and set your 3d settings to these settings.

Aniostropic Filtering to 16x
Antialiasing - Mode - Override any application setting
Antialiasing - Setting - 16x

Log into game, play with your video card settings. Make sure you test all 3, some cards actually play better with the graphic settings on high rather then low. Mine certainly do.

You can also go into the userfolder where the ini file is an edit the settings, set specular lighting and mipmaps to false, which is also a big help.

Since I did these steps this morning, no CTD's, no blackscreens, i'm running maxed out graphics in scenarios with about 100 frames. Really did the trick.

Also, just throwing it out there, if anyone did not do a clean install and is still running off the beta client, take an hour and remove the beta and install the retail. That alone works wonders.

Happy Hunting.

_________________
"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

Just a couple of things...

First on our tangent, I believe people get confused between difficulty and consequence. EQ was not difficult, it had very steep consequence. For example, fear and hate raids, sometimes you would spend hours either breaking zone in's and corpse recoveries. For that matter, any flopped EQ raid, especially early raids, could result in extremely long recoveries. Prep time was difficult and though it may have been tough at the time, it was more about getting people to listen and execute a simple plan than figuring out any major strategy. Games today do not have the level of consequence we were once use to in gaming.

Second, I have not had any issue in WAR with graphics. Things may jump every now and again if I get close to a large encampment of NPC's and people but, I have not seen anything major yet.

Third, I have finally played the game to begin making fair assessments. As someone else mentioned, population plays a large role in the fun in this game. The more people you have and the more involved they are in the game, the more fun you are going to experience. Monolith, is decently populated but it isn't near as crowded as some of the other servers. There are times I find empty PQ's but not many. Also, Scenario waits are not bad but, are a little slow in T2.

At this point, everything is slightly new and i'm still getting use to it. What I like is the opportunity to develop your character in so many different ways. Career Training entails Core and Mastery development, Renown development, equipment can be obtained various ways. I think this game was pretty well thought out.

I am in a guild now, which is also kind of cool, since it plugs you into people working on various objectives of WAR. The classes appear to be on a relative playing field. I can kill nearly every class and I've been killed plenty. Fearless, agressive teams/groups can accomplish alot if they are not complete morons.

I haven't ran into anything I just don't like as of yet. I miss EQ2's broker system but WAR's is not terrible. I believe searching for items could be a little better. Quests are typically explained well but I have found some could be done better.

Right now, everyone is scenario and keep playing. It appears to be the most enjoyable and the best way to progress your character. I wish I could play in PQ's more but, as I said, you'll find one booming then you'll see another without anyone. However, in their defense, there are many PQ's per chapter, so typically there is at least one PQ for that chapter being hammered out.

Later,
Muli

nice outline Muli!

On PQ's stage 1 can always be solo'd usually a kill 30-100 of normal mobs, which you can do to grind up rep and exp while you wait for more folks. stage 2 is typically go grab 8-10 of something, and has champion mobs which are tougher. stage 3 will be a hero mob, which is not really solo material, but can be done with as few as 3-4 folks.

Scenario's give decent experience. I averaged on T1 scenario's around lvls 8-11 at 5-7k exp. You can also spend 2 renown pts to get a +5% exp bump. As an ironbreaker I've put all my other pts into boosting strength.

The only flaw is playing on an open rvr server where you get constantly griefed by destro. Once I switched to core, most of my aggravations went away.

Not to mention the open RvR chicken buff kinda screws you if you want to go back to a Tier 1 zone to kill a named mob for a tome unlock.

Sarissa Candyangel

Tome unlocks are brilliant. It just doesn't seem like a chore killing random mobs in between myself and my objective because I know I will "get credit for it" in my book!

Plus you get one for clicking on yourself while naked.

Sarissa Candyangel

Tome unlocks are more of a game comedy

unlock for being wasteful deleting items, ow me eye title for clicking yourself, etc.

Just my 2 cents: I've only played 2 classes to level 10, so anything beyond that I am unable to comment on. 1-10 is rather fun so far. And it takes a while to level. Exp doesn't come as fast as WoW did.

Graphics: There are (of course) a lot of similarities to WoW. I like both games' graphics. WAR has a much grimier look to it. They didn't go too far into the pastel palette here.

PvP: I hate PvP. Mostly because I suck at it. I find myself enjoying PvP in WAR. I still suck at it, but between playing a sorceress and a zealot, it's been a lot of fun.

Overall: The leveling is slow, but I like it. I don't feel any rush to get max level. There's also a metric fuckton of shit to unlock, and that Tome of Knowledge makes it feel like I'm advancing much more than I really am.

Yep, I agree with you as well. The Tome of Knowledge is a great feature of the game, and helps add some high replay valve too.

I wish they'd do ToK and AAs in WoW. It'd be nice to have a reason to play instead of waiting for WOTLK, which I won't even be playing at launch. Ha.

I don't think anyone is claiming WAR's PVE is on par with WOW, but Fin's comment was based off the fact he spent all satarday doing pve raid centric content and purple gear farming.

While they are setup technically as PQ's there is alot of PVE content out there that people don't know nor experienced yet. There is so many aspects of the game the masses aren't aware of yet (or me) that I think are going to change alot of peoples perspectives as time progresses. Even the guild rank shit is awesome and requires some coordinated efforts to jack up your influence.

T3 que's are finally starting to be somewhat frequent which is nice. I stopped leveling my BW for abit and got a RP to 16 and a Arch mage to 10 (playing AM with my brother since he started late). BW is 24 or 25 but I am going to get back to concentrating on him.

I think givin or sola said it best a few posts ago, WAR is a game that alot of people will love if you have people to play it with. Rolling into a scenario with 2 guild groups is just ass rape most the time (I think we went 40-3) and if you run into destro guild groups you get into some amazing pvp tactical fights which are giving me a whole new appreciation for pvp or more specifically larger group fights. Individual skill means alot less then good tactical leadership and people knowing there rolls.

So far I just can't get enough of the scenario's even when I have to do gay fucking pug's (on our server order just gets rolled in the average pug). But luckily we always have scenario groups rolling now.

ps....MYTHIC PLEASE GOD release my BW's reknown gear should be int/wounds....int/willpower makes me basically not use reknown gear. Reknown gear should at least be more specific to pvp and pq gear abit more pve centric gear.

Anywhose...so far WAR is delivering and has had a FLAWLESS launch relative to the previous 3 or 4 MMO's released. Aside from the group que bug that occasionaly hits when you add people or out of the blue and having to sit in que if you do manage to get a CTD I have zero complaints myself. Definitely some room to improve but for 1 week live....i'll be patient

edit: for idiots like me that didn't realize it, there are moral bindings at the bottom of your key binding config /doink

Doesn't the game need to be good, more than it needs to have a smooth launch?

Don't get me wrong, I played during launch for Anarchy Online. Barring catastrophic launches, I'd take a bumpy launch of a phenomenal game over a smooth launch of an average game.

I believe we've already established that the game is good, have we not?

It's a "good" game but not phenomenal by any means. If you like PVP, give it a go. That's my summation.

I believe we've already established that no one gives a shit what your summation is, have we not?

_________________
Marauder Harabakc Goat

Clearly, his 3 minutes of playing the game makes him an expert.

He's too busy IRL to actually play games.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I hated PVP in MMO's before this game. I rolled 6 toons to 60 in WoW before I quit due to there bewing nothing to do except for the same old AV PVP, etc.

In WAR, the PVP is actually exciting. Wanna PVP? Go to a scenario for that zone and PVP. Or go find the contested areas of that zone and PVP. It is a great grind breaker when you get sick of doing quests.

For the first time since EQ I am actually having a ball playing an MMO. Granted it isn't a beautiful as Vanguard, but hey there's always trade offs...

_________________

_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

My thoughts exactly Khan...

Today, during my lunch break, I queued into Phoenix Gate to roll a quick scenario. It is even more fun when people communicate and make a game out of it. In my experiences, it's been a blow out one way or the other. Today it really felt like both teams were doing everything to win.

WAR has a great gaming equation for enjoyment. It's something a little different and there is so much you can achieve through different facets of the game. I love doing just about everything. It's cool do hammer out PQ's with people for influence rewards, quests are fun, scenarios are fun and rewarding, and fighting over contested areas (keeps) are a blast too.

I like too that leveling really slows down and forces you do try and participate in other opportunities. You will not just grind through one option of this game. If you do you'll just pull your hair out and/or quit.

I think people really need to give this game a try before they categorize with any other game. I'm not saying it's the best thing every created but it's definitely something unique and enjoyable.

I'm just about turned into a fanboy for WAR. However, my heart has been hardened by EQ2, VG, and AoC. Though, this is by far some of the most fun i've had in a MMO in some time.

Muli

Breaking News: Muligan seen painting tiny metal figurines and hanging out at the mall. More details as they become available.

People still read the shit Skycrasher posts in any of the game forums?

I overheard a couple of kids a while back at church talking about playing Warhammer at so-and-so's house. I thought they were speaking as if their friend had been accepted into beta, so I told them I was hoping to get into beta and to let me know what they thought about it. Needless to say they looked at me like I was some kind of idiot and insulted them.

They were making plans of playing "real" Warhammer with a DM (or GM whatever) and discussing their armies.

I worked as a Network Admin / Ebayer for a Comic Book store (http://www.page3gamezone.com/) through college. I should have known better.

I, for that moment, was truly a noob.

Muli

I overheard at work a large scary woman talking to a good looking guy about WAR beta, and the guy looking around like (umm is anyone seeing me talk to her?) was a funny moment

Someone who has a differing opinion about something!!! OH NO!! They're obviously DUMB.

I guess that makes you dumb, Givin. We hardly ever agree on anything. At least I know what I'm talking about though.

In your own mind, anyway.

Shrug, I don't give a shit if some fattie late bloomer 20 year old froths at the mouth when I disagree with him over the internet. He's a video game connoisseur. OMY!

Go back to being fat and sucking IRL Givin while piddling away at some shitty college majoring in VIDEO GAME DESIGN or whatever bullshit it is you're doing, you're much better at that, than attacking me and my posts on the INTERNET.

SKYCRASHER OUT!

Really? You promise?

It's on par to WoW's launch so far, in a pretty cool experience without major headaches. But it's still too early to declare anything. I'm still feeling burned over AoC's bait and switch.

I'm not the one that had to sell some game consoles to make bill money for my family buckaroo. You're just some ignorant paper pushing son of a bitch with a daughter who will end up making a living for you on her back when you get too old to fetch coffee for all those "successful people" you surround yourself with. At least when you kiss her goodnight, she gets used to the taste of cock and man asshole from your hand day at the office.

I'll take a CS major over the paper jockey shit you do any day of the week. At least I have more to look forward to than getting my very own copy of the FedEx mail room key like you do.

Now sit down, shut the fuck up and stop trying to be me 10 years ago.

This thread. This thread is the best thread.

_________________
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Lol

Givin always tries so hard. He's like Chris Farley in those SNL skits, screaming and flailing about.

Only it was comedy when Farley did it. Givin actually takes himself seriously. Which I guess is kinda funnier for the rest of us.

You two should really get together and tongue cyanide out of each others peeholes.

Hmm I'm starting to see an alliance between X and bovinity.....best combination since peanut butter and jelly!

And sky I hate to reiterate this point to you but jfc if you actually are involved with IP work I would think you would have a little bit better sense when it comes to doing your research before god damn trying to have a extreme opinion on everything (they did teach you that at school right?). Yes you can have an opinion after 3 minutes of play but it means exactly JACK SHIT aside from one less box sale to EA which in the greater scheme of things I don't think is going to bankrupt them. All you are doing is following up in dolain's old footsteps of posting on every god damn post. Most people will at least respect anthers opinion if its based off viable points or experiences, but sitting here and trying to argue/tell us "your" opinion of something you know basically zilch about is just plain retarded and a waste of your time...go hang out with the important people or something. (oh and to save you from typing and telling us you don't care about having our respect.....don't worry you don't have it so you are carefree!)

Also its pretty petty to talk shit to some one who is trying to better themselves and actually pursuing something they have a true passion for. It doesn't fucking matter what school they attend, its a means to an end. 99% of the world doesn't give a flying fuck where you went, its the person that matters. (yes reputable school helps get you in the door in some situations but that is it). Also I can't believe I have to point this out to you but you obviously play alot of video games, its abit hypercritical to talk shit about a degree that is catered towards creating something you obviously enjoy and spend alot of time on.

Lastly, while givin has not ever particular been a large fan of mine (fuck you, VG had potential!) I will gladly admit at least the majority of his posts have logical and well thought out arguments and he has even demonstrated he can admit when he was wrong on occasions. I think the majority of us appreciate those type of posts much more then your style of posts (see previous 30 posts describing said style).

For someone who is so edamucated as you try to act, you do a pretty fucking horrible job of providing logical arguments. Not all men are created equal, but you sure as shit aren't high enough up on the ladder to talk down on someones school of profession they are pursing.