You are missing the obvious here Turbo. If Sky only posted on things he was knowledgeable about...well, it would be the same net effect of what he promises if Obama loses.

I want to give this game a try, but I am waiting for an official review from Givin.

Ah just get the game... I seriously doubt you'll be disappointed.

I'm not sure what Givin is waiting for in terms of posting a review but I think we've voiced our overall opinions throughout this forum.

The greatest part of this game is there is something for everyone to enjoy. I've pretty well posted my thoughts on the game and they hold true. I've played 4 characters or so since beta nearly to 20 and several for the first 5 levels. The only unknown to me right now is the end game experiences.

Muli

You guys have pretty much reviewed it to the point of anything I say would just be duplicate. I think that is why you don't see a lot of reviews up right now, or at least vocal ones, because everyone is playing it and they can find something that they enjoy about it.

In short, it is the WoW of PvP games. If you enjoy playing against other people, you will like this. You can be the armchair PvP weekend warrior, or hardcore 25 hour a day pvp grind fanatic.

My personal opinion, which is a valid one having played more than 5 mins, is that they presented us with a very polished product, high in quality and fun factor. There are a laundry list of issues that need to be fixed, changed, added or removed, but I will forgive that because the game works great, and is a shitload of fun.

Every class I have played, on both factions, is fun. It might make picking one and sticking with it hard. I personally have about 8 so far at around level 15ish. They all seem balanced in one form or another. There are some things that might stand out, like healers being able to heal themseles through what you think is an obscene amount of damage but for the most part they did a fantastic job of designing the game in a way that doesn't penalize you in the PvE department for PvP utility.

Biggest bad thing on my list at the moment is the bug with Engineer/Magus stationary turrets firing through walls, and ignoring the Z axis. Very very bad, especially in Keep defense. It will be fixed soon however.

That's probably the best one-liner anyone could say about it. Brilliantly stated. /nod

Nice review.

Wish I could play it for a few hours to give it a test run.

Yeah, you guys pretty drastically undersold this game. From the response here I was expecting it to be a bit boring.

But I really enjoy it. They've put a lot of thought into how to encourage grouping without crippling the soloability. I'm only level 8, but the public quests are very fun, and there are enough of them to keep it interesting. On top of that, you can solo the first stages of the PQs and earn points even if it's an uncrowded server.

Then again, I am a Warhammer junkie, so I'm probably more into it because of the lore than most. I'm playing a Marauder right now, but also like the Black Ork and Witch Hunter. Totally dig the inquisitors from 40k and the witch hunter fits that nicely.

This game could have legs - the interface is close enough to WoW to make it a pretty easy transition. I'll still play LK when it comes out, but having a lot of fun at the moment.

The only problem is trying to get into scenario's on uncrowded servers. Totally sucks - there's no reason they couldn't do the battlegroup thing from WoW.

Shit, I'm ready for WoW to do cross-server LFG for PUGs at this point.

If you get on early the queue times are hardly noticeable and the game is better on more populated servers. The only reason people are spread so thin is because of their low server cap. Thinking of rerolling myself. The 4th person just hit 40 on my server. :/

You almost sound surprised that not everyone wants to powerlevel to 40 in 2 weeks.

They need to get the mail client fixed....that is brutally painful.

Also need to take care of the search engine at the AH, atm its just borked.

The worst bug/exploit that is just retarded is the horse buff bug that people us to get the bauble in the T3 scenario's. Not sure if they fixed it yet but it should be hotfixed asap if it hasn't.

Thats like the only real complaints I have atm.....that and reknown gear needs to be fucking reviewed at lower lvls for stats. My bright wizard having all int/willpower stats is pointless.

My brother decided to finally give it a try so waited around for him to play 5 different classes to 11 to decide what he is going to play. I lvl'd each healer up with him so he could have a partner. Runepriests are the perfect 2box healers, i like warrior priests better but they are a class that needs a shit ton of micomanaging to be an effective class.

My biggest gripes are...

1...Fix the Engineer/Magus bug where their turrets can fire through walls/floors.
2...Fix the plethora of "Target is too close" and "Target is out of cone of effect" bugs.
3...Stop loading characters in world before the LOADING splash screen goes away.
4...Mail system sucks. Overhaul it, steal it, do something with it other than whats in game now. Same with the auction house. Plenty of working models out there. Use them. Innovation is not needed here. The wheel works fine.
5...Pets. Lots of issues still here. Most important is, it would be nice, oh so very nice, if....
5a...there was some way to track where your pet was, or it had a better visual.
5b...squigs leveled with you. None of this mastery bullshit. Gas Squig is in the fucking melee tree for christs sake. Put gas squig where spike squig is, put spike squig where horned squig is and put horned squig where gas is. Perfect squig balance. Or better yet, fuck it. Let all squigs level as you do.
5c...Pet pathing is better but still very off. Sometimes pets and mobs will ghost, and you cannot tell if your pet is on the mob, or what.
6...Class tweaks. Many needed.
7...Make all button needed for some tradeskills. Babysitting is so first gen.

And for the love of Christ....

8...Make the PQ influence system make sense. It is horseshit that I can solo a mob for 100, and have a guy come along and whack something once and auto steal 25 of that. Put the actual bonus in for grouping and warbands.

9...Wishful selfish thinking here, but allow queue of all scenarios from anywhere as long as you are eligible for them. This might stop the path of least resistance that seems to be happening where people only play 1 of the 3 scenerios in each bracket. You can also add in queue as a warband I suppose, even tho I see why they don't do this. Most people may like the idea as long as they are paired up correctly against similar premades.

Agree on the scenario queueing. The only ways dark elves can win theirs are if tanks/heals from the other races cross over, or the other team sucks very badly.

Squig hunters get a raw deal, because iirc their mirror class gets one pet that levels with them regardless of tree.

Sarissa Candyangel

I tried a squig hunter for a short time and it felt like a WoW hunter =x I'm not sure if it feels that way at higher levels, and I know they get a number of unique and diverse skills.

I know there's only so many ways to can make a "hunter-type" class, but it really had that vibe to it.

Yeah they are. Difference is that hunters can kill folks solo. Squig hunters can do damage but not enough to be a real threat. They need a hard-hitting combo of some sort, especially when healers are factored in.

My sorc for example has one that can do upwards of 2k damage within about one global cooldown (because of bolts' travel time). The squig hunter should be close to that, but overall it's not a bad class. They just need something to 'polish off' and snipe wounded players.

Sarissa Candyangel

My list of pet peeves

1) Fix hotkeys to work for ALT + anything, a couple SHIFT + W, S, and some combinations with M4, M5.
I'm missing like 10 of my favorite hotkey combinations.

2) AH filters, they need to at least fix by class. ie Ironbreaker so I can stop getting excited about empire or elf only items on the AH I can't use. Mostly need to filter by category ie weapon, and then by type ie axe, and then skip all the items that are red and unusable.

3) Mail is laggy. Significant delays in opening and deleting mail. They could help this by just putting AH wins into inventory.

4) Fix the apothecary skilling gap from 45-65. I got a ton of leeches under 45, and a lot that are 65+, but I've hit a gap around 50 for skilling up. Trying to buy them off the buggy AH. I need those heal pots as healers are maybe 2 in 10 in a scenario and half the time you're lucky if 1 of them is actually healing. My next toon with be an RP.


Gameplay:

Right now Destro on Azazel controls 90% of the T2 keeps. It's actually quite exciting when we take a T2 keep back and can rush over to buy T2 gear and train renown pts. Initially I was aggravated by it, but it's added some value that it's not always available. On Azazel population is like 1:1.5 so we are able to take them back when a larger guild organizes.

Leveling slows quite a bit after lvl 12. You can get to 12 in 2 nights, which gives you a glimpse of a career/class.
It's kind of nice that the progression slows. Could also be largely from players spreading out a bit. I typically do PQ's while waiting in a Scenario queue. (Scenario can be 2-8k of exp on avg, PQ's roll in exp in at a steady pace).

For T2, the High Elves capture the flag is laid out well, I get a lot of kills. The Dwarven Mourkain is cramped, and typically destro wins. Empire T2 has the mountain and moving the skull thing over to flags to capture them. It moves along rather well. For PQ's I felt Troll Country had the best cluster. Chapter 6 is slow, but Chapter 7 build rep quickly, and the end loots are decent. I actually got better drops off mobs just doing the PQ. The end loot roll is pretty friggin random though. You can bust your nut for an hour and end up with the low roll, no loot.

Scenario's and RvR are really segmented
T1 is 1-11
T2 is 12-21
T3 is 22-31
T4 is 32-40
if you try to drop down a tier you will be turned into a chicken, and are pretty much forced to move up.

So IB is now 14/12 and I just got my knockback aka punt. Really satisfying punting destro off high points, or the RDPS/healers from the edge back into order lines for a beat down.

Wait until you can start punting people into the lava in T3!

If a healer doesn't heal in a scenario, I want some rampaging orc to anally violate them. IRL. I swear to god, when I'm on my Black Orc in Ekrund, and all the healers are on the ledge trying to pot shot the other team (and the other team is doing the same damn thing), and I'm down in the middle trying to cap the flag / gank some dorf asses, I just die without a single heal.

Why? There are descriptions on the classes. Tank, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Healer. It doesn't say 'Healer, but you can just pretend you're ranged dps if you want to'

After years of MMO's, you'd think you'd be used to that by now, Bz. =D

I am used to it. I will never accept it.

Healers get way more xp in scenarios by healing than by plinking. You can even get over 10k in a losing game. Debuffs are good to throw around, but healers that try to get kills in RvR are gimping themselves.

Sarissa Candyangel

After playing EQII and some WoW, I have come to accept that people are still new at the whole idea of MMO's. We are old hands at the system, no matter MMO we play we can apply previous experiences, which even seem common sense to us. Playing a Swordmaster for around 14 levels, I found that people really don't understand their role. I have to applaud WAR for laying it out pretty simply, you have a tank, melee DPS, ranged DPS, and a healer. However, people are pretty ignorant and this generation of gamer is very selfish in terms of playstyle. For whatever reason, we were much different if you turn back to pages to our EQ1 days. (Who knows, we may have even been smarter) Regardless, people are learning, I have met and spoken to many people who ask some of the age old questions.

Anyway, i'm playing a Disciple now and healing is not a problem. However, I find myself getting lost in DPS since my class does well in either role. I played a cleric for many, many moons on EQ1 and I have to say people have it easy. I'm looking forward to some addons and getting more involved with taking keeps and such. Where I rerolled on Azazel i'm a little behind but will catch up soon.

Muli

That's true in most other games too, but they never learn.

I got to 100 alchemy on level 50-60 leeches and cloudy water. I had saved about 80ish or so, with the odd 75 thrown in here or there. You can go to 200 on the level 50 vials also. Higher quality vials just reduce the amount of stabilizer you have to put it to get it in the green. Expect to be using 3 waters from around skill 75 onward, until you come into a shitpile of the 100 water.

Make sure you have scavaging. The level 50 plus water will break you if you do not.

By any chance does anyone know the command to disable the combat log? I saw it posted somewhere and haven't been able to find it again after searching for an hour or so.

Does the combat log create some problems? Just curious why you wanna disable it.

Some people are suggesting to do so to cut down on any hitching and stuttering along with using BuffThrottle (which seems to help quite a bit).

I have only looked at my combat log once or twice, so it's not like I'd miss it.

Apparently the ini file logs the entire zone you're in...

good lord, where in the hell do I find fragments? I have my bags FULL of curios and magical essences, just READY to make talismans. But I can't find a fragment anywhere to save my life. :p And since I don't seem to be able to find a bank, I'm having to consider just selling this crap to a merchant if I can't figure this out soon. It sucks going out to level and then having to leave loot behind. :p

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The bank is in the Inevitbale City over on the West side. Just serch around a bit and you'll find it.

Fargments come from the Scavenging skill. You have to disenchant green items and higher for a chance at a fragment. Or search the AH which is also in the Inevitable City.

Talisman Making:

Fragments and Magic Essences come from Magical Salvaging
Gold Essences are made by Apothecaries
Curios come from Scavenging

Best bet is to just take magical salvaging on an alt. Then you can find a friendly apothecary and trade their salvage stuff (leeches, etc) for gold essences.

Sarissa Candyangel

There's three banks in IC, that I know of. One is next to the lyceum. Another next to where you rez/pop up from jumping off IC, and the other is south in the undercroft next to the renown gear merchant.

Rolled a DoK myself. T2 is rough. Roots hamper my healing fairly well. :/ Then my charge move spreads my arms out and screams hit me I can't heal much yet.

I hope they are looking into the targeted healing. Thus far, I believe it is somewhat buggy.

Soloing - At times, I get a select a target. Does not automatically heal myself.

Grouping / Scenario - Sometime I will have a mob targeted and it will not heal the mobs target. Sometimes it will heal me. Then other times, it will actually heal the traget.

Just a couple of examples but, was curious if anyone else experience bugs like list above?

Muli

Ironbreaker > Bright Wizard > Runepriest

Black Orc > Sorcerer > Zealot


All other classes are filler and take up a useful spot in PvP. Figured this would happen.

You may as well quit the game now.

ps: there's a particular T3 scenario where being a particular class other than one of the ones mentioned above gives a HUGE advantage. Dare I say it gives an unfair and nerf-worthy advantage? But maybe Givin has a different definition of the word "useful".


Not sure what you mean. If you have a mob targeted and you cast a heal, it won't heal the mob's target, it will heal your friendly target (or you, if you don't have a friendly target set up). I've never experienced any of the problems you mentioned.

Depends on the scenario, but basically with two evenly matched teams yeah.

Witch Elves can do pretty well if the other team isn't paying attention to their healers. Marauders can do well in scenarios that force the other team to bunch up.

Sarissa Candyangel

Why? I'm a Bright Wizard/Ironbreaker. Everyone else can assist off me to be useful.

I'm going to make the assumption you're talking about using White Lions in Tor Anroc? If so, all I can really say is that it wasn't really a huge debate in Beta...some complained for and against it. In the end, both sides have classes with knockbacks so if you don't run with one that does then you're at a disadvantage.

ps...Black Orc has a knockback too.

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I think I may be looking at it differently than it's actually set up. I believe I made the mistake of assuming the healing was setup like EQ2 since the struction appeared to be the same.

Let's just say Muli and Bob are killing Mob X. If I target Mob X and below him it has Bob as a target, it will at times say choose a target or it will heal me. I would think it would heal Bob? I have seen a message regarding choosing a friendly target. Regardless, I have experienced inconsistencies in the healing mechanics maybe because I am comparing them to other games. I'll go back and test this further. Unfortunatley because I rerolled on Azazel, I have been grinding quests and such to catch up and just now getting into more group situations.

In response to Givin's post, I don't feel this is true at all. I'm a little biased towards my class but, I feel Disciples can really turn the tables in RvR. I have yet to see any magical combination of classes that appear unbeatable. When I played my Swordmaster and Xolar was playing his engineer, I even felt when we had 2-3 Engineers we couldn't lose. As long as you have a decent balance of tank and healing between the two sides it's up for grabs.

Muli

Muli, here's how it works:

I am a healer.
I have 2 target windows.
1 is the mob.
1 is my main tank.

If I cast a nuke, it will hit the mob. If I cast a heal, it will hit the main tank. If you are new to the game, you may be confusing that second target with "target's target", which this game does not have. If you only have one target up (the mob) and you cast a heal, you will get the heal on yourself automatically. If you talk to an NPC, or even click on a box to open it for a quest, you'll see those as your friendly target. If you try to cast a spell/buff/whatever, you'll get a message saying the spell didn't work ("You must target a friendly character" or something). You need to get into the habit of keeping an eye on that 2nd target to make sure it is either someone you want to heal or yourself. If you were to click an NPC for a quest, then run to the other side of the zone without targeting anything, then target a mob and start nuking him, when you cast a heal, it would try to heal the NPC you originally targeted. So you'd get the message telling you it didn't work over and over again until you physically targeted a friendly around you. Another problem you'll notice is that once your mob dies, your friendly target now shows up as your regular target. I think friendly targets should only show up on the smaller friendly target window to avoid confusion, but it doesn't work this way.

ps: other classes don't have pounce

So?

So? I just proved my point about the huge advantage that White Lions bring to that scenario.

That answers my questions. Stupid EQ2 habits.

I think I like Target's target better however.

Muli

1 ability giving 1 advantage in 1 scenario which is in T3 doesn't make WL a useful class 100% of the time.

Besides, as a Marauder I can use my double sprints to lava run to the bauble before a WL can...and since I roll with people who'll heal me I don't die.

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of corse team bro is rite 101% of teh time i am sory u r useles all teh time if u r not 1 of teh 6 clases givin sed

I'm not saying that I completely agree with Givin on class usefulness 100%, but that doesn't change the fact that some of the classes have VERY little use in a lot of situations.

Engineers/Magus are largely useless in anything but large scale RvR or some of T2 Scenarios (like Mourkain Temple) where they can park a turret pretty much anywhere and since they still shoot through walls can be immensely useful in killing people.

Melee DPS classes have their uses but since the majority of them wear light armor, if more then 2 people start beating on one they typically die. Ask Sola, he dies within 30 seconds of any scenario we do when he plays his Witch Elf. I don't die as often on the Marauder because I spec Monstrosity so I've got AE knockdown to keep my ass alive. Witch Hunters are in the same boat as WEs in that if they get focus fired on they die.

Squig Herders are largely pointless as their damage output sucks. The real boon is watching them blow up Squig after Squig in a crowd of people.

And White Lions have pounce, which really only gives them an advantage in 1 maybe 2 scenarios in 1 bracket. The topic of Pounce was discussed on the Beta forums ad nauseum, and the devs pretty much boiled it all down to dealing with the ability and finding ways to counter it rather than bitch about it. If I had the ability to post the "Its not an exploit" post from the Beta forums I would....however the Beta forums no longer exist (at least the class discussion section no longer does).

Again, I'm not saying he's 100% right about EVERY CLASSES USEFULNESS...but he is right in that if you have good tanks, good ranged dps, and someone who will actually heal you (which I'd say 95% of the pug idiots out there don't know how to do) you will rape almost any scenario you enter.

_________________

Yeah, the higher in level I get, the faster I die in scenarios, I had THREE healers on me last night, couldn't stay alive more then 15 seconds. Fucking useless.

_________________
"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

The problem is, you guys (Givin, in this case) make blanket statements about a game that is 3 weeks old and act like it is the gospel and nothing will ever change. The fact of the matter is probably 90% of the population is either in T3 or has not even touched T3 yet. I know it's pointless to even offer a differing opinion on things, but when you could hypothetically build a team around a White Lion (or 2) and kick everyone's ass in Tor Anroc, that's a pretty important role. Hell, you could do it and waltz through 1/4 of all of the ranks (levels) in the game, getting massive amounts of Renown in the process. So while they may be most valuable in only one Scenario, it is still a pretty huge fucking deal.

As far as other classes go, the two things I hate the most when facing the competition is dealing with a Witch Elf (they simply own me) and putting up with a pesky Squig pet (I play a Rune Priest). If I die 4 times in a scenario, I guarantee you 3 of those times I am being killed by a "useless" Witch Elf. Yes, they are squishy, but they are still pretty valuable. Sorcerers do lots of damage, but seriously, they give new meaning to the word "squishy".

Easy there Skycrasher Jr. Nothing blanket about it. Bright Wizards are just more useful than White Lions.
You're talking 1 scenerio in Tier 3. I'm talking the game as a whole pretty much thus far, and pretty accurately predicted into end game.

Sorry I hurt your feelings hon.

I guess if you need a list...

Superior DPS.
Superior AE DPS.
Better CC, especially when they travel in rape squads.
Has as much survivability as an engineer/magus.
Doesn't have to fuck with a shitty pet.

I will of course concede that as is intended, the other classes work well with Bright Wizards. What they lack in damage, *sustained does not win battles* they make up with having someone with an additional root/knockback.

It doesn't hurt my feelings in the least. Unlike you, I can admit when I am wrong. In this instance, you are wrong. I proved you were wrong. Khameir admits that you are wrong. It's ok. I wish I was already Rank 40 and RR 80 with vast experience in raiding cities and T4 Keeps like you are so I could also know how the game is later on, but alas, I am not there yet.

Care to tell me the problems with bringing a Rank 40, RR 80 Engineer along when you try to take over the Inevitable City? Surely there must be some reason why it is better to bring a Bright Wizard, right?

edit: quoted your original post in its entirety.

I didn't admit to Givin being wrong, I said I didn't agree with him 100%...

_________________

Can the Engineer shoot fireballs that do 1200 damage or so?

No?

Well I guess there will be some menial siege task they'll be deligated to. Grenader is a pretty fun spec.

Does that not mean he is wrong? Or are you saying he is right? Now I'm confused.

This is the part I agree with and I'll quote myself....





And this is the part that I don't agree with 100% because I could sit here and list class by class their uses in particular PvP/RvR situations, some of which I have at least some experience in dealing with due to my participation in Beta. Givin also has Beta experience so he can as counter my arguments.

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So the other ranged DPS classes don't hold a candle to the bright wizards and sorcerers? That's kind of annoying, shadow warrior and squig herder both look pretty fun on paper.

Think itemization (i.e. better weapons and stat gear filtering into the game) will help the ranged melee DPS close the gap with the nukers?

Do SW or SH have any advantages over BW/sorcs? Heh.

(I'm a noob.)

Engineer - Path of the Grenadier -
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=4#3 ... :1576:1581
This is basically a Super AE spec. This build has numerous knockback and knockdown abilities tied to some good AE + DoT abilities. This is pretty much the best Keep defense, large group RvR spec has you've got the ability to take out large groups of players all at once with many of these abilities. As for itemization, lots of Ballistic/Wounds/Toughness.

Magus - Path of Havoc -
http://www.wardb.com/career.aspx?id=16# ... 4168:15120
This basically turns a Magus in a pure DPS caster, though not nearly as good as a Sorcerer of equal level. Lots and lots of Intelligence is required for this.

I've played both these classes/specs during Beta...both of which in Scenarios and Open World RvR. I enjoyed both very much, however being that both were played during T4 Focus Testing I didn't actually go through leveling either from scratch.

I think better itemization could possibly help, because quite frankly the top end gear (level 40 RR 80) is rather lackluster in some respects.

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I'm only level 14, playing a marauder, but I can see some truth to what you say. In t2 scenarios I am often in the top 4 in total damage done, even being much lower level than most. I attribute that to me being experienced in mmo's rather than my class being awesome, though. The marauder is a good class.

I have two observations..

1) That marauders don't have good burst dps. If someone is getting marginally healed, they could be at 10% for a minute and I can't quite get the edge and beat them. Of course, I might be underpowered for the scenario. But seems like other than my little morale ability, I don't have a great finishing move just yet.

2) That bright wizards root is WAY too powerful. I'll be doing my thing, get rooted and it effectively REMOVES any melee from the battle for a very long period of time - seems like an eternity.

Other than that, I don' really have a problem with the concept that you guys describe. If we haven't learned by now that ability trumps class, I don't know what to say. WAR will not have the subscriber base that WoW has, so I don't think there are going to be a plethora of black orcs, sorcerers and magus' running around with all the guild spots, to the detriment of people that aren't in the holy trinity. And, if it's an imbalance that needs fixing, I'm sure it will be fixed.

Anyhoo, the marauder mutation is a constant source of amusement. Some artist put a lot of TLC into this class.

Try typing /special for amusement. Though it sucks for some classes.

Sarissa Candyangel

Goblin is hilarious... Sorceress and marauder are kinda lame. Haven't tried it for anyone else yet.