Looking for a cheap Intel Mac to experiment with.

You're dead to me.

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Haha. I feel like the guy at the frat party who's trying to quietly get a Sprite.

I have some clients who are migrating to Mac (or thinking about it) and need to be able to walk them through things.

Walkthrough for client:

Step 1: Buy a PC

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lol

They're people who've been using PCs for years and want to see what all the fuss is about. They don't have any solid reason to switch, but I'm tired of persuading them of it.

Why isn't there a reason to switch? ;p

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

The only reason to switch at all IMHO would be for very specific applications. Macs are better for certain media applications...but that's it. Other than that, it falls under personal preference. There are many rabidly loyal mac users. When my dad worked IT for a major company (from the 70s through the 90s) he had to deal with rabid mac users who fought like hell to keep their macs, despite it being an utter pain in the ass for everyone. I recall a conversation about it in the mid 80s when I was learning how to program (on an apple), because I had used a PC since ...oh I'm not sure, but when everyone else was playing their first games on Amigas and shit, we had an IBM from his work *grin*. Anyhoo, there were things that I liked better on apple, but I prefered a PC, and that started the conversation.

You don't really see the same rabid loyalty in the PC market, partially because it's more diverse. You don't see that loyalty to IBM machines, or to microsoft software. Or a processing chip, people have preferences, but not rabid loyalty.

Here's my conclusion, which may be right or wrong...it's just what I think at this point. Apple products have been less about the applications and more about functionality. Apple products have always been easier to use than it's counterparts. I have owned a variety of mp3 players...none of which even remotely hold a candle to my iPod. I'm in love with it. It might not be the 'best' out there...when it comes to a variety of applications. There may be other mp3 players which do 'more'. But it is the BEST in how easy it is to use, and how well it meets my needs.

People get very attached to machines. I am very attached to my car. I'm attached to my computers. I'm VERY attached to my ipod. So there's that natural attachment coupled with how so very easy it is to use, and you have a low frustration level. People assign emotions to machines based on frustration level. When you're very happy at how it works, especially when you have other basis for comparison....you quickly form very positive attachments.

Those are the reasons I think Apple has rabid fanboys. Utterly rabid fanboys. Even linux fanbois can't compare.

Apple isn't the best computer for many people, I'd even say 'most' people. But...if it's applications meet your needs, it's probably the best at functionality. And that counts for a lot.

If my Grandfather were 15 years younger, I'd probably buy him a Mac to use online. Because it's just that easy. Plus then you don't have 99% of the problems you have with a PC, though perhaps there are more viruses and crap thrown towards Macs today, I dunno.

If I were a casual computer user who didn't game...I'd have a mac. If I were super rich, I'd have a mac just for artistic purposes.

YMMV.

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If you want to game, you can always install Windows on your mac now

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

That's one of the things I need to test out... not gaming necessarily, but virtualization and Windows compatibility.

you forgot "...and make it a PC".

Or just save $1500 and buy a PC...

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

I picked up an iMac at an auction for only $25.

Granted, it's not fast- only 400 Mhz, but it has half a Gb RAM, a DVD writer, and one hell of a nice GPU.

I picked it up because, being in the IT field, I wanted to expand my horizons and learn how to use/troubleshoot OS X. These systems are very solidly put together and seem to outperform a PC with the same specs.

I haven't done *much* with the iMac, but I did put together my website with it. Mac > * when it comes to web and graphics design. It's not fast enough to run any current games on though, but I definitely wouldn't knock a person for wanting to get one. OS X is pretty slick.

Leo, I'd keep an eye on eBay and pick one up cheaper that way.

I recently got a Macbook, and I'm really enjoying the OS, it's pretty neat. Only thing I don't like is that I don't feel I have as much control as I do with the PC, but I'm a n00b still.

I like Mac's OS more than Windows. I own PCs (I think Macs are overpriced and I hate that I can't really shop around for good deals when it comes to upgrades), but I adore the new imac my paper has.

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Seriously though, I am considering either getting a Mac-Pro or just building a dual quad core xeon box for my video editing. Not much out there on ebay though and I just can't bring myself to paying 3k for a computer when I can build one for almost half.

I really need to hang with some Mac junkies and see if there is really a huge difference in getting videos edited and rendered.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

The video editing software (Final Cut) is a lot more intuitive than anything I've seen on Windows. Final Cut Pro (well worth the investment) has a lot of features not found on Windows apps at the same price level. It's not as fully featured as say, Premiere or After Effects, but it also costs about 1/10th the price.

I haven't run into any problems using Windows apps (either via Parallels or Boot Camp) on my Mac Mini.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Well, for what I need it for, I am more interested in the rendering times vs cool shit I can do with it. The Mac Pro's have dual quad core Xeons, but I don't know of any Mac editing programs that can do AVCHD .mts files.

Currently I use 2 apps, Pinnacle Studio 11 Ult for editing (highlighting players on the field prior to plays going off) and Nero 8 Ult for straight rendering raw SVCHD footage after the game is over. Not too many apps out there, including Avid Liquid 7.2 and FCP that can edit raw AVCHD files, they all need to be converted to .m2ts, P2 or .m2v before they can even be imported. Converting the file lowers the quality of the video, which is unacceptable since it has to be rendered down to SD-DVD anyway.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Pretty sure final cut pro can do all that.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Unfortunately, FCP can't. It will only work with Sony's .m2ts files and JVC's .mod files, not Panasonic's .mts without conversion. The compression for each of them is unique.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

weird. I have a friend who works for a company that does wedding videos and commercials, and they use Panasonic gear. I'll check with him and see what they use.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I see macs on craigslist all the time.

I too may be in the market for a mac laptop in the near future. I just bought a digital SLR camera and now am thinking about how neato it would be to have a laptop to process photos on while travelling etc. It would basically be used for just photo editing/storing, internet and email and maybe some music now and then.

Thinking a mac might be better for this type of use. Still in research mode tho!

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-Rileigh (aka Golliwog)

Mac would be the most expensive option for the minimal use. You can pick up any PC laptop that will do all those functions just as well as a Mac would. Macs can't do anything that PCs can't, and there are equal (if not better) software components for anything you could want to do on a PC. So, if you are looking to get something just to edit photos on, why would you spend 1000 on a mac laptop when you could spend 300$ on a pc laptop that'll do it just as good?

Well, I was always under the impression that macs were better for photo editing and graphic things then PC's (as I mentioned, I'm still looking into it). Perhaps this has changed in recent years.

I'm also not really sure how to compare a PC with a mac. Like what would an equivalent mac be to a certain laptop? Anyone that could shed some light on that for me?

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-Rileigh (aka Golliwog)

There was a time in computing history when Macs outperformed PCs for some tasks but in this day and age its not really a factor anymore. It's more of a preference than an advantage.

Arguably the #1 photo-editing software is Adobe Photoshop... which runs the same on PCs and Macs. I don't know if you were planning on getting Photoshop... one way or another, but they perform the same.

The problem w/ macs is, they only come in certain configurations, so they're set at an expensive baseline price. Especially the notebooks which are ridiculously expensive for the performance they give. In my experience, I've been able to do all the photo editing, internet surfing, and even WoW playing on a laptop I paid 799$ for from BestBuy. However, if you just want to edit some photos, listen to Winamp or Itunes, and surf the net, a minimal configuration (which Macs don't offer) would be your best route.

Most IT guys wouldn't mind having a mac.. as long as they didn't pay for it themselves or from their work's budget.

I'd love to have one to dork around with.. same reasons as Leo would like one.

I remember when I was working for @home and I had to go to a house and figure out how to install a network on a mac on the fly. I don't remember if I had to install a NIC or not, but I think I did have to open it up.

This was summer 99 I think, things were different back then.