They choked, plain and simple. They had big leads in the first two games and found ways to lose them. People like Raja Bell take stupid shots and they don't do anything about it ("that's their style"). Golden State, Denver, Washington, etc. all do the same stuff and will never win a championship as long as they have idiots who take stupid shots in big games. You can get away with it in the regular season but against quality teams, you have to have smart possessions. When you see them jack up threes instead of going through their main guys, they will fail. Amare should be averaging 35+ points in this series, but the Suns get stupid and don't go through him when they should. Perhaps a coaching change would help them.

Nice beatdown. Now they're 3-1 it doesn't seem too unrealistic to come back. They did last year against the Lakers. Hmm. I was definitely too harsh in my judgment earlier, but I hope this isn't a false sense of hope. We'll see. I definitely feel better, but I have a final on Tuesday and my birthday is Thursday, so it'd be nice to get a W on Tuesday, and a W on my birthday to go 3-3. Who knows.

Spurs played like they didn't care for 3 and 1/2 quarters, and they probably didn't

not saying its not a nice win for the Suns confidence, but you got the Spurs D game at best today

still think it ends in SA, and no I'm not a Spurs fan ,

Go Hornets

I agree with Draconi. After the first few minutes when Phoenix jumped out to a 15-20 point lead, seemed like the Spurs gave up and mailed the rest of the game in. This just delays the inevitable. Unless one of the Spurs' top three goes down with an injury that keeps them out the rest of the series, I don't see this going to a seventh game.

It was nice to at least see Phoenix come out with some energy and focus. If only that was there for games 2 or 3, then this series might be different.

Back to watching my team get beat by Philadelphia. What on earth is wrong with Detroit

_________________

no fear Cicely, Philly is choking the game away in the 3rd qtr !

Spurs definitely were trying to win. The first 3 quarters were nothing but effort from them but they just couldn't hang with the Suns. Suns were stifling them defensively and shutting Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan down. They keep that up next game and I think they may have a shot this series. The Spurs looked tired, and beat up. 3 of their guys had ice on their legs half way through the 4th quarter.

No way the Spurs didn't want to wrap this series up with a win today -- no way at all. Suns just outplayed them today and they threw in the white flag in the 4th.

Blind homerism is just as bad as alcoholism, obsessive gambling, etc etc

Even the Spurs' coach admitted in the post-game interview that they both wanted the game as bad as the other, the Suns simply were more aggressive:

A few stats:

steals: 6 suns 1 spurs
blocks: 9 suns 3 spurs
to: 8 suns 15 spurs

spurs even did the hack-a-shaq. if they didn't want to win, why would they do that? they had 27pf compared to 23 for suns. spurs also shot 39% from the field. not for lack of trying, duncan was 6-18, parker 7-17, so you can stick the "Spurs gave up" bullshit in your pipe and smoke it.

duncan and parker also played 30 minutes a piece. they both average around 36 so yeah when they knew they were done for they called it a night half way thru the 4th. also, nash played 29 and amare 31. =)

Whew!

Would be nice for Detroit to play an entire 48 minute game, as opposed to 24 minutes. They always do this, and it decreases life span years for me...

The sad thing is, they probably will do this to Orlando or Toronto next series. Mail a couple halves in, mail a game in, etc. Will end up playing a lot more than what they should play. They need to stop looking at the Celtics, and worry about Game 5...

_________________

As much as I love the Pistons, I just don't think they can coast to the finals this year, so I expect to see Boston.


Sky, there's a point when homerism just becomes delusional. The Suns don't look any better than they did this time last year, the trade for Shaq is a failure, and they will not win 3 games in a row from here, especially considering 2 more are in SA.

Yep, because obv. Greg P was gonna come out at the post game conference and
say " naw, we didn't want that game, and really didn't try for 3 qtrs.

Head Coaches do that all the time, it would be smart , and fans wouldn't get pissed

if he said that.

again 1-800-Homerism, if you need help for your delusional blind homerism, PLEASE CALL NOW

O btw, no team has ever come back from down 3-0 to win a 7 game NBA series
and phoenix doesn't have the testicular fortitude to be the first against the defending
NBA champions

The only thing this thread is missing is for someone to say "my team wants to win more than any other team in the league."

I'd totally step up and be that guy, but, being from Detroit and watching them so far, I'm only willing to commit to: "my team sort of thinks they deserve to win more than any other team in the league, and will play upwards of 2 whole quarters a game in order to see if that could happen for them".

haha that had me laughing in my seat.

it's funny you discount people shooting their average possessions and missing 65% them as "giving up"

im not saying they're going to win it all but for you guys to act as if the suns just didn't outright dominate them is fucking stupid

What are you talking about, Homer? Grats, they won a game! They even dominated oh my gawd! The Wizards beat Cleveland by 36 last week. Big fucking deal. They still aren't the better team and still will not win that series, either.

If they win in SA on Tuesday I think it'll be 50/50 that we make it to a game 7.

SA is the better team, but when our role players show up, like Diaw, Barbosa, we're unbeatable. So, if we see some more good games from them, I think it'll be tough.

Again, not a homer -- I realize my team has flaws. =) They simply played SA the way they played us on Friday. Clearly superior. Can they continue that? Who knows.

You owe me a new keyboard for that. You are the biggest homer on the forum.

You didn't see me come here and say that the Mavs were all of a sudden back in the series when they won game three handily. One game is an abberation. The Suns have been clearly outplayed in the other three games. I am also suprised that you don't know Coach Pop speak yet. "Of course we were focused and wanted to win the game" means "We want to win all the games, but look, we had them down 3-0 and felt like taking an eazy night. We kept our starters in to give them a false hope but this thing is over when it gets back to Texas"

That is a homer statement and just as stupid as, "nobody wants to win it more than the Suns, that is why they will be victorious in the end!!!"

Diaw could have 40 points and Nash could have 4 points, 5 assists, and 6 turnovers. What would be the outcome of that game? Role player showing up or not, they'd still lose. The Rockets could get 18 rebounds from Carl Landry but if T-Mac plays like a bitch, they'll still lose. The same goes for every team. Your statement should have been "if everyone plays his best game, we are unbeatable." And that applies to every team in the playoffs.

Diaw and Barbosa have shown to be consistent in the past. The abberation is them NOT showing up, and us losing. Diaw was 05-06 MIP and Barbosa was 6th man of the year in 06-07... These aren't your Carl Landry's... Barbosa = our Ginobili. If Ginobili has a shitty game, guess what -- most times they'll lose.

We're not talking about having Piatkowski or Marks come in to win it all for the Suns. We're talking the players who have been ghosts this series (Barbosa, 0/7 in Game 2, Hill 0 pts in G2, G3) who have not helped win the games when we needed them. This falls on the shoulders of our starts too, Amare only had 7pts, he was really the only irregularity scoring wise in the game. (Apart from those who exceeded their averages.)

I'm not making excuses, I'm simply saying that if they show up, we're one of the best teams right up there next to the Spurs -- and this series isn't over -- yet.

PS: Frib, I doubt you know exactly what is on Pop's mind but the stats clearly show they didn't play easy. They got punked up and down the floor, I mean taking 20 shots from each of their big 3 and each missing 75% of them? That's not taking it easy.

Even if that were the case, they may have done themselves a large disservice. If Suns win G5 in SA, I think it's pretty likely this series will go to 7. Will the Suns win on Tuesday? We can only wait and see.

Double PS: It's funny to be called a homer when my team is a legitimately good team. I wouldn't say the things I did if I were a fan of the Heat, Bucks, Hawks even -- I mean I don't say outlandish shit and I realize my team has it's shortcomings. I don't have BLIND HOMERISM as you all say. Whatever. Point me out something I said that's completely untrue and reeks of homerism and maybe I'll concede. It's not that important to me though because in the end, you either win, or you don't -- and that's all that matters.

IDK, I think the Nuggets could play out of their minds , unbelieveable ball, shoot 60% from the field

and have the place Rockin, and still lose by 15 to the lakers

so saying playing your best team ball and being unbeatable is subjective IMO

It's all subjective, hence my statements about it being stupid. Some games come down to "that one play" but most are a combined effort. If Kobe plays like shit, can the Lakers still win? Of course, but it won't be as easy. Skycrasher's problem is he never sees any loss as something the other team did, it was simply because his dudes didn't do this or that. Chalk it up to the other team doing things better every once in a while and perhaps people will take you a little more seriously. The Spurs do have one of the best defenses in the league. That could be why Barbosa and Diaw are struggling. They aren't just "not showing up" they are being outplayed.

No you're right I don't discount how good the Spurs are. I've admitted they're better in some areas, and the Suns are better in others, however, the Suns CAN beat the Spurs. The Spurs CAN beat the Suns. We won't know until it's over.

I think that the Suns showed they know how to beat the Spurs this last game. Obviously Nash or Bell on Parker wasn't working. Putting Diaw on him WAS. Shaq and Amare played better on Duncan like the regular season. You can't SHUT Duncan down, but you can limit him and annoy him and get some blocks.

I think the biggest problem for the Suns imo is Bowen on Nash. He really interrupts Nash's rhythm and smothers him.

Tbh, I'd rather have the Suns lose tomorrow, instead of Thursday. It's my birthday on Thursday and that would be a bummer to have them eliminated. It'd be one of the greatest gifts if they won to send it to game 7 though. =)

Speaking of Bowen and Nash, has anyone else noticed sometimes Nash slaps Bowen's hands away and then Bowen just gives this WTF face?

Bowen grabs and tugs a lot, which isn't allowed, right?

Skycrasher, you got banned from the Something Awful forums for being a super annoying homer faggot. Like half of the people in their sports forum are huge homers but you were the only one to be enough of a faggot to get banned for it. You're like a homer all-star basically.

Like any "great defensive player," Bowen gets away with alot of shit. If you get a rep as a hard-nosed defender, you can get away with a lot more than the "bad" defenders. I think Bowen gets away with too much, but I always think that kind of thing. Teams with "great pick and rolls" get away with illegal picks all the time. Utah does it all the time (and has done it since back in the Stockton/Malone days). Watch the moving screens that Boozer sets and almost every one of them are illegal. So much of the NBA is based on reputation that it makes the games really hard to watch. Call me crazy, my preference on watching sports is:

Football
Baseball
Soccer
Nascar
Golf
Basketball

No other sport is dictated by the officials like Basketball is. In baseball, you could have a shady umpire calling terrible balls and strikes, but as long as you have hitters in the box, they can swing the bats and make a difference. In the NBA, if you are covering Shaq, you're going to get called for fouls 95% of the time even if you are playing solid defense. In the NBA, certain "finishers" will get away with travelling and certain "shut-down specialists" will get away with hacking you for 48 mins a night. When a team is gets to the freethrow line 20 times in a half vs. 4 times for the other team, the referees will make a point to balance it out in the 2nd half. In Baseball, if Rick Ankiel walks 15 dudes in the span of 3 innings, the umpire won't feel obligated to call more balls when the Cards bat.

I'll watch NBA basketball because I love watching sports of all kinds, I just take each game with a grain of salt. The game is corrupt, even without Tim Donaghy. Anyone who disagrees is fooling himself.

Actually I was banned for "throwing" a game in the SA NBA 2K6 fantasy league game thing. I posted in a thread that "I'll play however I want" in a game and then I was banned, and my ban reason was "No you won't!" -- go ahead and check the ban log.

SA is retarded anyways. =P

Check again... wasn't me!

I honestly believe that Detroit is that good of a team that they can make it to the NBA Finals this year. However, in order for them to do that, they have to "want it" for 48 minutes each and every game. They simply do not do that. They take long stretches of games off, they take quarters off... hell, sometimes they will take the whole game off. And it isn't because of anything other than complete arrogance and disrespect for the other team. They know they are better, which is true in most cases. However, they think that they can just "show up" and because their jersey says Pistons, and the other jersey says Sixers/Magic/Celtics... that they can just waltz. And I hate that about this team. It is not even Wallace either, it is the entire team. Even Prince, who is my favorite player, sometimes just goes through the motions and plays with such a lackadaisikal (sp) effort that it makes me sad.

And believe me... the Spurs mailed in Game 4 about half way through the first quarter. The Suns played like they were not going to be swept and go through that embarassment all summer, and the Spurs would like to end it on their home court. The end. Game 4 was not a "must win" for the Spurs... it was for the Suns. And they showed up. Wooo. Just like they did at various points in the regular season, they had some "must win" games that they came out and won. I remember early in the Shaq era that they were 3-6, sports writers were bailing on this team, and they had a Sunday afternoon showdown with San Antonio at Phoenix. That was a game that they "had to win" for a pyschological perspective not only towards the Spurs, but towards themselves as well. Cause if they lost that game, Monday morning would have been disasterous for them to hear/watch/read about.

At least the Suns are not the Nuggets. Wow. I honestly don't know what to do with that team. I do wonder if they would have made that Artest trade in mid season if that would have helped them out at all. He could have at least been a semi defensive threat.

_________________

There are still 3 more games to be won as far as the Suns are concerned.

If you can't see that the Spurs gave a true effort, then I don't know what to tell you. Duncan and Parker wouldn't jack up 20 shots each and take charges and do the Hack-A-Shaq if they were "mailing it in."

Suns will show up the same way on Tuesday, and they'll get another W if they do. Same dela on Thursday, and then even Saturday. If the Spurs take the Suns lightly, I think they're goose is cooked. Like I said too, Spurs look pretty beat up as well. I wonder how much more they have in them?

Sorry. You're wrong.

shut up homer

Homer!!!! LOL!!!

Way to bring something to the discussion, faggot. Go take more pictures of yourself to use as avatars on forums.

Are you honestly that dumb?

Do you honestly feel that the Phoenix Suns can win 4 straight games (2 of which on the road) against the defending NBA Champions? A team that is as close to a dynasty as there is in the NBA? A team that has been in the playoffs numerous times, with veteran players who have done this hundreds of times? A team that just knows what they have to do to get it done?

Seriously?

And it is not even the Spurs, to be honest. Phoenix CANNOT PLAY DEFENSE. They cannot guard pick and roll. Even the most homer sports radio guy states that as fact. Nash cannot play defense. O'Neal has no footwork to play pick and roll defense- he is just a large mass that can knock people down near the basket. And Amare... I think half the time he is on the defensive end he is trying to figure out how many more baskets he needs to hit 40 for the game. Diaw has no testicles at all, Barbosa can run around but that is it... the only guy on the Suns who is at least a halfway decent defender is Bell. And he is 6'4" max. The Suns simply cannot get a defensive stop in a game, especially when it counts. If you disagree with this, then you are dumb. Not sure how else to put it nicely.

The Spurs missed shots. They still got looks, as good of looks as they had Friday night. They just missed more shots than Friday, and Phoenix did not want to be swept and go through that embarassment. The Spurs are at home Tuesday, and they will see this as "must win" for them. Because they do not want to go back to Phoenix, and they don't want to see a Game 7 because you just never know what might happen. So they are going to come out in a desperate state of mind, and they are going to be intensely focused, and they are going to close out this series.

And if I am wrong, I will buy you a beer at the local sports tavern. But the Spurs know what *might* happen if they lose Game 5, so this is their "must win" game. And just like the Pistons in the second half last night, they will realize what they have to do to make it happen, and do so.

_________________

Phoenix plays defense.

Phoenix can beat SA.

Bell, half-way decent? Why has he been on the NBA All-Defensive team like 4 years in a row?

We'll see. If the Suns dominate the way they did on Sunday, then they can win. If they don't match the intensity and heart, they can't.

Quit trying to talk to him. He is a fucking homer that thinks it is only because his team plays bad that they lose. In his mind there is no team that can beat them. Sky must have been a Tennessee Volunteer fan in a former life because that is how they are.

Raja Bell has made the all-defensive team once, not four times.

He was on it last year, and then this year -- right? I thought it was more but perhaps it was just only 2.

We'll see, if the Suns come back to win the series I expect some apologies.

when they don't I expect you to put the blame everywhere except the fact that the Spurs are better than the Suns

The Suns and Spurs are both pretty comparable teams. Spurs have proven themselves while the Suns have not. The Spurs are the better team until Phoenix proves otherwise.

There is no fighting that fact.

NBA championships

SA - 4 or 5 not sure

Phx - 0, 1 trip to the finals , smoked by Air Jordan

not comparable teams in the least bit

Reg season means diddly squat and every person knowledgable about the NBA will tell you so

Suns have been to the finals twice, and they've also beaten the Spurs in a fair amount of games in the playoffs. The Suns also caught the Bulls when they were extremely hot and repeating championship titles. Who knows, if they Suns had played better they could have won, obviously they didnt but It was a great series. =) And they weren't exactly "smoked" by Jordan. They both played great and that Paxson 3 was a dagger to the heart, but it was fun to watch and I think basketball is fun to watch win or lose. Of course it's sad when your team loses, but, that's how the ball rolls.

In terms of the here and now, the Suns and Spurs are pretty comparable, except the Suns have better stats in every category and on paper, are the better team. They just have to prove it by, ya know, winning games... (Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We'll know by Sunday morning.)

Also, the regular season means A LOT. You're fucking stupid if you think that with a Western Conference having teams with 48/49 wins not making the playoffs and the seedings the way they were (top 1-8 seperated by a mere 7 games) means who cares about the regular season then you can't be reasoned with. The Suns took 3 out of 4 games, if the Spurs had won those games they would have been the 1 seed. So yeah, it meant a lot.

I don't think anyone is going to argue that the Suns aren't a good team; but they still have to show they are capable of winning. All the stats don't mean squat - it doesn't matter how they match up on paper.

This series would obviously have a very different tone if the Suns had won game 1, like they should have. They could have EASILY won game 1 had they been coached properly on the strategies to win down the stretch. Up by 3, there should have been ZERO reason to let Tim Duncan shoot an uncontested 3 to tie it; not when they could have fouled the guy passing to Duncan and let him shoot 2 free throws with like 4 seconds left in the game. Granted, letting Duncan shooting a 3 pter is about as good as odds as you are gonna get in your favor (probably on par with letting Shaq shoot 2 free throws to tie the game), but still there isn't any reason to even take that chance when you could have limited them to 2 pts. Forever more, Suns fans are going to have wonder about that game and "what could have been".

The reality now is that no team has ever come back from 0-3 to win a series in the NBA. Never. I would go so far to say that the Suns are probably one of the better teams to ever be down 0-3, so their chances are better than most. Still, they aren't playing against an untested team, they are playing against the champs, a team that definitely knows how to close it out.

It's easy to talk it up like the Suns can come back. If you really had that much faith though, you should be putting up your money where your mouth is. I'm sure Vegas is giving you fantastic odds for the Suns to make a comeback. I wonder if your wallet can back up your faith or your mouth.

I've said all along that the Suns need to prove themselves and that I'm not sure if they can win 4 in a row against the Spurs. If they did, I'm sure most would consider it a total collapse on part of the Spurs rather than a series of decisive victories by the Suns but like I said, time will tell...

Spurs are indeed the better team until Phoenix proves otherwise...

Mavs out

I hope the Suns show up this 2nd half, down by 9 is not good way to start it. =( Go suns........................

phenomenal game so far dunno whos gonna win but god damn this is amazing game

Congratulations again, San Antonio Spurs. =( Again, better team until proven otherwise. =(

Oops.

Yep! =)

Today is April 30. I predict by May 10 that-

1. Avery Jackson will be introduced as the new Phoenix Suns head coach. Congratulations to the Kerr/Jackson friendship and previous teammates syndrome!

2. Mike D'Antoni will be introduced as the new Chicago Bulls head coach. If somehow they can land either Derrick Rose or OJ Mayo to be that flashy up-tempo point guard that Nash used to be, then Chicago could be the new entertaining fastbreak offense like Phoenix used to be.

3. Mark Jackson (somehow) will be introduced as the new New York Knicks head coach. I am not sure if he has to wait until he is done with ESPN games before he can be introduced, but I don't think he should be given the chance anyways. Zero head coaching experience is going to hurt him big time. He was a point guard, so I feel he has some game management in him, but still...

Of the above, D'Antoni will probably make the best jump record wise next year. Yes, I cannot stand D'Antoni and I think that he is an overrated coach. However, assuming that they get Rose or Mayo, that team is going to be so loaded that it would be nearly impossible for anyone to screw that up. Although D'Antoni has repeatedly shown over the years that he refuses to develop young players, so maybe he will just sit Rose/Mayo and only play them like a dozen minutes a game

_________________

Raise your hand if you know who Avery Jackson is.

Ha.

PS: My feelings on the matter is that D'Antoni is going to stay. Kerr said he wasn't going to move him and that they did have things to work out, I hope we focus more on defense but we'll see. I like D'Antoni, I just think we need to figure out how to play defense more consistently while maintaining our offense.

Jeff Van Gundy go go go.

Oops.

People who know basketball obviously know who I was referring to. Those who don't know the "Avery" in the NBA will obviously be confused. Sorry Mister Johnson, and pre-congrats on being named the new Suns coach in a couple weeks...

_________________

Why would the Suns bring in a guy who can't get out of the first round of the playoffs and have been stunned by upsets in the past and total collapses in the finals? Doesn't make sense.

We'll see though!

Why would the Suns trade all of their draft picks away in exchange for cash, thus negating player growth and development and a half way decent bench?

Why would the Suns not pay Kurt Thomas, trade him for cash, only to realize halfway through this season that they need a defender for Tim Duncan... who was Kurt Thomas?

Why would D'Antoni refuse to play young players, stunting their growth?

Why would D'Antoni refuse to play anyone on his bench, tiring out Nash and company towards the end of the season?

Why would Kerr make a trade halfway through the regular season, when his team (at the time) was 37-17 and in the top 3 of the Western Conference for a player that completely changes the entire offensive make up of his team, and goes against the entire offensive philosophy that his current coach had in place?

Kerr and Johnson used to be teammates. They are good friends. Avery IS a good coach, he cannot help it that his star player is softer than a marshmallow. Avery IS a good communicator, and he is a defensive minded coach- something that is the complete opposite of D'Antoni. And not only is he defensive minded... but Kerr is a defensive minded GM who wants his team to focus on defense, something that his current coach is against.

Avery IS a good coach. His team, however, has not recovered from leading the Miami Heat 2-0 and leading in Game 3 in the second half. That was such a devastating loss that they cannot recover from that, as a whole. He cannot help it that his team stopped listening to what he had to say, that his team has zero balls and heart, that they are doomed as a group. Yes, part of that is on him; however, sometimes you reach a certain point where a team just stops listening to the coach. It is time to part ways, which is why he left Dallas/Dallas fired him. It was time for both sides to move on.

I think Avery is the best replacement for D'Antoni. It is just unfortunate that he has to work with that group, and with a penny pinching owner who trades players for cash...

_________________

I agree on Thomas being traded for cash. Dumb move. Also it was stupid to give away draft picks. But that wasn't all D'Antoni's doing.

D'Antoni's job isn't to develop young rookie players. How many rookies or sophomores in the league get any playing time that is more than garbage time? Very few. That's what the NBADL is for and Strawberry played in 33 games this season. He was in and out of the NBADL and NBA too.

And Nash and "co" actually average among the lowest for starters in the NBA. I haven't heard Nash say that he was fatigued, nor Amare or Shaq, etc. Where did you read / hear that?

The Little General lost his team in Dallas. I don't know if that they just quit on him or what. I do know that the last few months there were too many Mavs just mailing it and those players would continue to start night after night. Avery is a good coach but he might not be the best leader. There were plenty of stories that he rode the team way too hard and didn't let up at all.

Read an interesting article on sportsline.com the other day, was outlining the results of some of the bigger nba trades recently. Namely Shaq, Kidd and Iverson. I'll outline some of the stats in the article that were really interesting.

With regards to Iverson:



Kidd:



Shaq:



Garnett:



Full Story

_________________
-Rileigh (aka Golliwog)

I heard a report on the radio this morning that the Suns have given Mike D'antoni permission to speak to other teams about openings.