I don't really need to post links to sources as it's all over the net.

Anyhow:

Shaquille O'Neal - Center
Amare Stoudemire - Power Forward
Grant Hill - Small Forward
Steve Nash - Point Guard
Raja Bell - Shooting Guard

---

Pretty much the best lineup in the league next to the Celtics and Lakers and Spurs now. Shaq has had issues but he is healthy, lost weight (down from 325 to 310 with low body fat) and his hip is reportedly not an issue, he was just unhappy playing in Miami.

God I can't wait for the Suns to steamroll teams now. We have been missing that huge interior low post presence and now it's here.

What to lose? Shawn Marion (15pts/9rb -- same as Shaq's stats this season) and Marcus Banks (4pts/1ast) and a shitty contract by that scrub Banks. 14 mil over 3 years for such a garbage player.

Shaq is reported that he may be around for the Suns game tonight, but more likely he won't be playing for about a week.

WORD

I am one of the biggest Shaq fans around, but I think this is a bad trade for Phoenix. I don't think the daddy fits into their playstyle, but time will tell. It will be interesting to see if he is magically "healthy" the rest of the year now, however.

There is no way that the Diesel can run up and down the floor like the Suns want to. At least not extended trips up and down. They traded a player in Marion that could move and play more minutes. Shaq won't be able to log the time that Marion did, not if they continue to run.

I too think this is a bad deal for the Suns. The Suns were a horrible matchup for most teams without Shaq. Now all the Texas teams have centers that will match up better against Shaq than an athletic center like Marion.

I don't see how this really makes the Suns that much better. Now if they would have gotten the Shaq-daddy of 4-8 years ago then they would dominate, however they got the Shaq-Granddaddy of today.

I have heard rumors that Dallas may land the other O'neill...

I foresee Shaq being the MOST use as a PLAYOFF player, where the game is slowed down anyhow. The problem is that the Suns get caught up in the slow-game and have no answer for half-court games. Now they do. Shaq will still hold his own on the boards and offensively. We have a comparable player in Diaw (to Marion) and I think with Amare playing PF, we'll be in a much better position. Overall, I think Shaq will be a benefit if he stays healthy and in shape.

I know there's a lot of negative feelings around this trade but I for one, and pretty enthused about it.

If I were a Suns fan, I'd definitely be excited about the potential, I just think when the dust settles, this trade won't net the Suns an NBA Championship.

This seems like a better deal for Miami than the Suns, but isn't great for either team. Getting rid of Shaq's monster contract does let Miami start the serious rebuilding that they need, but they'll have to do it with an old coach and a chronicly injured superstar than can leave in two years. Marion won't necessarily opt out either, it's not like he's going to get the 17.8 million he'd make next year from anyone else. They would have been better off getting draft picks or prospects.

The Suns get stuck with a big, fat, old, expensive lump of flesh. As much as the Gasol trade hurt, this is a gift to the other West teams. It might give Amare a boost now that he can play PF, that's about all the benefit I can see for the Suns. Even if this gives them a better half-court game vs. the Spurs, I'm sure the Spurs will be able to adjust to playing against a 35 year old Shaq better than the Suns will be able to adjust to playing with him. Duncan has started stepping out and hitting his bank shot again lately, and if Shaq tries to shamble out and defend him he'll leave the paint open for Parker and Ginobli to slash in for easy lay-ups.

If the Suns have to face anyone else in the playoffs besides the Spurs (hint: they will), they are playing at a disadvantage. They have absolutely no one who can guard Dirk. The Lakers already played the Suns well, and Bynum can straight up beat Shaq on every posession. Utah's pick and roll will victimize a slow, lazy center playing next to Amare's undisciplined defense. The Hornets are a more interesting matchup, but Chandler is better than Shaq and they have shooters and a point guard than can match the Suns. I haven't watched much of Denver and Houston this year, but the Suns already had them outclassed and if they try and play a half-court game with Shaq they would be playing into the strengths of the Rockets and Nuggets. Golden State can beat them with small ball now, Shaq won't be able to keep up and Diaw can't overpower smaller defenders like Marion can.

This trade doesn't make much sense. It seems like Steve Kerr is shooting himself in the foot trying to put together a Spurs-like Suns Team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3234099

It's 100% Official now. Woot!

Shaq tells Steve Nash, "I will not let you down."

Pros:
Losing scrub Banks - fuck off! I hate you! Take your shitty Orange Lamborghini to Miami, lameass.
Losing Marion's shitty attitude and aura. And his atrocious career-low stats. Hell, Shaq is injured and hates Miami and he's posting the same stats as Marion.
Nash will be re energized -- he hasn't been the same this season. There's been reports that he's kinda worn thin with Marion and Banks. So, them two leaving to me, is a big boost
We have really good athletic trainers - I think they can help rehab Shaq to be a lot of use
Open up our 3 point line by having a real threat down low. People may not double team him at first, but depending on his offensive output

Cons:
Shaq is old, he'll be 36 next month - though Nash will be 34 this year, and Hill is 35, and Bell is 31.
Shaq has a big contract, 40 mil over next 2 years. But getting rid of banks (13mil) and Marion (18 mil) will open up some room.
We have to sign a 13th player, probably that noob Richie Frahm
He may not be able to keep up with run and gun. However, if Kurt Thomas was able to, I think Shaq will be fine.

----

This is all good.

In the playoffs, our game slows -- because people lock us down. We have a weapon now to fight that. We can fuck them up in the post and have a real half-court game instead of worrying about how we're going to get inside.

you gotta love the blind faith and love some fans have for their team.

You're telling me you don't think my points are legit? They absolutely are. The Suns have THE BEST medical team and rehab team in the league. Look how Amare has come back, look how a 34 year old Nash is STILL the best point guard in the league, and how Hill who has played less games in the past few seasons combined than this season alone, has managed to come back and stay healthy?

There's nothing blind about my support, I know there are cons, I pointed them out, but there are also pros.

Instead of saying some stupid ass comment you could actually try to point out how they're wrong, or not legit. But you'd rather just try to look cool, I guess.

hey fucknut, read above, I did.

They don't need Shaq to run. That negates your "fact"

He will be a low-post presence no matter what, and he KNOWS how to pass the ball from the post. We will open up our 3-point shooters more, and the defense will have to double-team him. This is further reinforced by the fact the playoffs ALWAYS slow down for the Suns. I know this from watching every playoff game they've played the past 6 or 7 seasons. This will allow Shaq to keep up.

Now what?

edit: just heard the news conference about it. the coaches and players seem confidence that his "injuries" are nothing more than having the right trainers an conditioning around him. they don't necessarily need him to run but think he'd be able to if the need arose. they also brought up a good point:

They said the Suns could never win because they didn't have a big man, now they can't win with a big man.

Shaq has some gas left in the tank, this will definitely be the last 2 years I think he'll be a force, but I'm glad we have him.

Now we will see just how good Nash is. We have seen him run the fast break consistently better than any point in the league, but now the team has to change styles.

I don't know if I believe that Shaq has any diesel left in the tank, but if he does, Shaq-Kobe Playoff games will make the NBA tons of cash.

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Looks pretty f'in good if you ask me

That is one of the greatest videos ever.

That was some funny shit. Good post homie.

At first I thought this was a horrible trade. Suns run up and down the court, Shaq obviously cannot. Shaq is 36, has lost so much quickness and whatever mobility he had that he is no longer the intimidating force that a fellow Arizonian likes to think on this thread. He just kinda stands there, hopes a rebound goes to him, and then outlets to a guard. I saw him earlier in a few games this year, and he did the absolute "Ole" defense I have ever seen. ("Ole" for those who don't know, is when a guard can just dribble and run right past a big man who just stands there and watches the guard blow by him and cannot do anything about it). Plus, I have always thought Shaq was an overrated player, only putting up the stats he gets because he is 7'2 and 330. No talent, no skills, just a very large man with a great charisma that can talk himself into getting lots of calls and can overpower others with his immense size.

Then I realized that none of this matters. This trade was made for one reason- Suns playoffs, 2008. It doesn't matter what Shaq does between now and mid-April, only when the playoffs start. They made this trade for end of April, May, and June 2008. And he BETTER produce, or else this is going to be an absolute failure.

This trade is not made for 2009. Yes, I know that Shaq and Nash are still on the books (Nash's final year), but they absolutely HAVE to make the NBA Finals this year. If they don't... then who is going to care at all if they start next year with a 25-2 record? 44-3? Does not matter... cause all they are going to hear (and all the media, both local and national, are going to say) is that they cannot do it in the playoffs. And if you hear something enough times, eventually you are going to start to believe in it. And that is no bueno.

So I really hope, for the Suns' case, that Shaq produces BIG TIME for April, May, and June 2008. If he does, and they win the Finals... then Kerr is a genius. If they make the Finals but don't win, they have at least proven they can get there. Then their final stand is in 2009. But if they do not make the Finals this year... o wow. The criticism of this trade is going to be magnified millionfold. And in a much much improved West with Kidd to Dallas and Gasol to Lakers (although Bryant's injury probably keeps them away until 2009) and possibly Artest to Denver, along with Jazz and Hornets and Spurs all top flight teams... that might be too much to ask.

And geez, my Pistons really have it made. Only the Celtics to really worry about, *maybe* the Wizards if Areanas is healthy and 100% by playoffs or the Cavs if James can find anyone with half a brain to play alongside him. And it will be a good storyline- will Allen and Pierce and Garnett choke in the Conference Finals, with all that pressure on them, and let the Pistons get to the NBA Finals? Or will they overcome the pressure and all three of them see their first NBA Finals in their careers? I obviously hope they will choke, but will be good theatre regardless!

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The Shaqtus makes his dominating return tonight against Kobe and the Losers.

Look, Shaq can run -- and he's agile. Wait til you see the replays. He is in amazing condition everyone is saying, and he's healthy. Contrary to popular belief... he's not injury prone. Any asshole could hurt their hip while diving for a loose ball. Besides, his "hip" wasn't injured, it was just a deep tissue issue. (Woot, that rhymed) Which has been since corrected. The footage of him running in scrimmage on Suns NBA TV is just so confidence inspiring. The Suns run best against themselves, since no other team really can keep up with them, if he can keep up among their own team... wow. It's going to be scary for the rest of the NBA these last 29 games.

Shaq will speed up the Suns offense, and they will be even faster. Shaq will grab rebounds, dish it out, and then hustle down the court. Amare and Barbosa and co will all be amazing finishers, I can't wait to see the numbers Amare keeps putting up, he's averaged something like 30+ppg and 12+rbg the last 5 games.

Tonight is going to own!

WORD!

Kidd to the Mavs...

Now the Rockets just need to get Artest to really spice things up.

Artest on Houston would actually be more funny than him ending up in Denver, that sounds great. Of course, all this happened in response to Utah trading for Korver, setting the Jazz up as the frontrunners in the West. With the Kidd and Shaq deals not helping the Mavs or Suns at all, and Kobe getting injured, the Jazz have a pretty easy road ahead of them to the Finals.

D-Will is the most dominant point guard in the league, Boozer is one of the premier post players, Kirilenko is playing great now that he finally has his head right, and now Korver is draining all the easy jumpshots that Derek Fisher bricked last year. There's still a hole at C, but Okur can at least stretch the defense some when he's playing right. They have one of the greatest coaches from the last two decades, a solid and versatile bench, and won't give up anything without a fight. They're healthy and have the least questions looming over them for the rest of the season, and are in the easiest division in the West with the ability to decide any tiebreakers on their home court, where they hold the leagues best home record. They only have 6 more games on the road vs. teams with winning records. They do have a rough final 6 games vs. San Antonio (twice), New Orleans, Dallas, Denver, and Houston, but until then they only have one tough spot on their schedule with a back-to-back on the road against Phoenix, and then at home versus Denver.

Spurs just picked up our old scrub Kurt Thomas, who is about to turn 36 and was nowhere the level Shaq was. I wonder when people will shit on the deal? They gave away Brett Barry (great shooter) and Francisco Elson, they're backup PG (and they're down w/o Parker indefinitely.)

Lots more to come I'm sure.

Elson is a backup center (and not very good), and Barry has been injured. Ime Udoka has been playing very well in Barry's absence so the Spurs made a deal to avoid the luxury tax while bringing in some low post help for Duncan. Thomas has an expiring contract and they didn't give up much at all in return, unlike Marion and the Shaq deal. It doesn't give them a whole lot of help, but Thomas is at least a fairly solid defender.

Kidd will probably end up being the worst deal out of all them. He is a great passer, but the Mavs have no one who can finish for him and he's averaging 11.3 ppg on 36.6% shooting. Losing Diop means they also desperately need a backup center that can cover for Dampier when he gets into early foul trouble. Kidd will keep them above the salary cap too, just when they were about to see Finley's $18 million go off the books. They actually are paying Shawn Bradley $5 million this year too.

I was thinking about Jacque Vaughn or whoever

I see you are off of your sugar high now. heh

I'm still enthused about the Suns. Kobe is playing godlike basketball right now. The Lakers will be some tough motherfuckers when Andrew Bynum and Mihm are back. They're a force to be reckoned with. There's a lot of things that were wrong though, I mean despite having a 41 point advantage at the SG position, they only won by 6. Raja had 0, left game after Shaq gave him a goose egg on the head.

Shaq looked amazing last night. Diving for balls, getting blocks, posting people up, running down the court faster than some of the team mates (he beat Hill and Barbosa down a few times... Barbosa is the fastest player in the league, ha) and had a great game... 15/9 and a few blocks, assists. His presence was definitely felt and he commanded a double team often, which led to Amare being open a lot (37/15) and having a great game.

If this is Shaq's first game coming back and he was that good... I just can't wait to see him when he's in sync with our guys.

We need to have Amare play some defense. When Shaq was out and Amare was on Gasol, he tore us up. Gasol is great.

There's no doubt anymore about him having any gas left in the tank. I don't think anyone is missing Marion right now either. We're a better team all around and more equipped to win a championship.

You have lost all NBA credibility for bringing up Chris Mihm's name in this thread. Period.

Now, I have lived in Detroit for around 26 years... and the past 8 in Phoenix. And I have learned a wonderful thing about Phoenix sports fans, something that I am not sure is consistent with everywhere else in the country or just here- but I don't remember it happening much (if at all) in Detroit.

So obviously, the past week has been a huge high for this city. Excitement, enthusiasm, hype, etc... about Shaq's presumed debut against the Lakers, in Phoenix. Sports talk radio, sports TV shows, local guys, etc etc have been hyping this game and making it out to be "must see" basketball game. A lot of talk about how important this game is, Shaq's coming out party, a lot of importance on the game from a division leading standpoint, a LOT of big time talk about this game. Yes, this was a HUGE game for a lot of reasons.

So the game is played. Great game! But the Suns lose. And what happens the next day?

It is as if no one cared that the Suns lost. No big deal! O well, no worries! All I heard was the enthusiasm of the team, the excitement, the great Shaq one liners after the game at the press conference, etc. Not once did anyone say "Dammit that was a game we should have had, a game we needed to have, etc".

The local guys did the EXACT same thing when the Spurs came to town a month ago. A lot of hype, a lot of talk, a lot of "This is a MUST WIN game for the Suns!" against the hated rivals. Spurs came in, beat them, and the next day? "Just a loss, no big deal! It happens, teams will lose some games!"

Two key notes-

1. The Suns are currently 5-12 against the Western Conference teams that, as of today, are making the playoffs. Taking Skycrasher's unbridled optimism and enthusiasm out of his upcoming response... that is NOT a good record against your conference's playoff teams- teams that you will be facing in April and May. Ouch.

2. The Suns played the Lakers (at home) on Wed, and lost. They play the Celtics (at home) on Friday. KG is back, Boston has the best record in the East, that is a possible potential loss for the Suns. Then they play the Pistons (at home, I am going to that game, WOO) on Sunday. Pistons are the #2 team in the east, one of the top records in the NBA, and have lost their last two games after a 10 game win streak. They WILL be ready to play on Sunday, they always bring "it" against quality opponents. And the Pistons have won in Phoenix the past 2 years when they come out here. A possible loss. Which means....

The Suns, after the all-star break, and with Shaq in the lineup... could be 0-3. Monday morning could be a HUGE day for radio sports guys and local sports guys as maybe they start to have doubts about the Shaq trade. Maybe some big time concern starts to settle into Phoenix. Enthusiasm is great! Wins, of course, are MUCH bigger. And if they do start out 0-3 with Shaq, there is going to be a lot of rumblings in this city about the trade maybe being a mistake. And there is not a whole lot of games left in the season, and in the talent laden West... you better not fall too far back of the bunch.

O, one other thing- Shaq and Amare simply are not able to defend pick and roll. Whether it be that they physically cannot do it, are not agile or quick enough to do it, are not smart enough to do it, or just don't want to do it... I dunno. But neither of them can guard pick and roll, and that spells lots of doom for the Suns...

_________________

I have no doubt the Suns could end up 37-20 by the end of the Hornets game next week, but I have faith my team can bring it all together. Shaq played amazing for his first game in a month in a completely new system. He'll go up, and the Suns will become tighter. Tonight will tell. The Celtics are 16-0 against the West. Can the Suns stop them?

The Celtics just lost to Denver and Golden State, last time I checked those were West teams.

Correct.

Yes, you're right -- up until those 2 losses (since last Tuesday, so super recently) they were 16-0.

Still, the question remains, can the Suns big 3 stop the Celtics big 3?

I did not watch tonight's game, but ugh... 85-77 or something like that? This is the new and improved Phoenix... 85 points?!?

I heard on the radio home from work that Allen and Pierce combined for 5-25 from the floor. I guess West Coast road trips sometimes do that to players. I would be awfully worried, in a way, because you know that Allen and Pierce are simply not going to combine for 5-25 from the field every game. If they shoot a combined 40% tonight, then Celtics win by 2. And asking Pierce and Allen to combine for 40% FG shooting is something they do at least 9 times out of 10...

I am excited about Sunday's game. Will be there wearing my Pistons jersey and all. Last time the Pistons came into town, I walked into one of the sports bars near the stadium with my Pistons jersey on, and got booed. I laughed

_________________

The Suns had amazing defensive stats tonight across the board. They pretty much dropped the offensive threat and locked down on defense. They locked down offensive shooting %, owned on the rebounding, and Amare had an AMAZING game.

And hey, if defense like that wins games, I'll take it over 110+ point games if we can get a title with it.

Word!

So I decided to analyze the boxscore of last night's game to see these amazing defensive stats that you are referring to...

50 rebounds to 32, +18. Great, especially when Allen/Pierce combine for 5-25... that is going to happen.

Suns committed 24 turnovers to Celtics' 20. Hmm...

Suns made one more field goal (31) to Celtics (30). Hmm...

Suns attempted 28 free throw attempts to 16 for Celtics. Home town referees in effect!

Amare was 10-23, and had a whopping 6 rebounds. Not necessarily an AMAZING game in my book. Then again, I also think that Chris Mihm is irrelevant

Again, glad they won. They needed to win 1 of the first 3 just so they would not have to listen to everyone on Monday morning. But that seemed less of a defensive lockdown as it was just an ugly win. And as I mentioned earlier, Allen/Pierce combine for 40% shooting for the night (which, for those two, should be nearly every night) and Celtics win the game. So don't get your hopes too high, they seem to have caught Boston on one of those West Coast road games where everything goes wrong. That won't happen all the time...

_________________

Please stop posting about sports.

That's exactly what a defensive lockdown is. You make the oposing team take shots they don't want to take and their percentage goes down. I don't know if the Suns can keep that up, but I'd say this game is exactly what they are trying to do.

PS. No one gets unlucky for 4 quarters, and certainly not 2 stars like Allen and Pierce at the same time. When they shoot that poorly combined, it's a sure sign of a good defensive effort.

As I mentioned, I did not watch the game. However, I do recognize that there are different variations of the 5-25 shooting performance:

1. The individual defender that guards the person, harasses them all game, covers them like a blanket, and they miss shots because of the blanket coverage.

2. Double teams that the offensive player is trying to shoot over, either because a) there is no one else on the team good enough to shoot, b) shot clock is winding down so they force a shot, c) they just want to get their attempts in for the game, and the only way they do so is via shooting over a double team.

3. Missing wide open shots, enough time on the clock, etc. Just a poor shooting night, that is all.

So without seeing the tape, it could be any of the 3 above scenarios. If it is scenario #3, then that is not really "lockdown" defense. Of course, many people just look at 5-25 and automatically make presumptions and assumptions that "OMG PHOENIX IS LOCKDOWN DEFENSE!!!". The Suns have NEVER been a "lockdown" defensive team, and have NEVER been a defensive team. Period. So forgive me, a local Phoenix fan who has watched them a lot over the years that D'Antoni has coached them, to all of a sudden think that game 2 of the Shaq era has automatically produced a "lockdown" defensive team that gives up less than 80 points a game, and holds the opponent's top shooters to 5-25 shooting. I, for one, am not buying it just yet.

Celtics are in the middle of their West Coast trip, coming off of two losses to teams that run and gun constantly (Denver and Golden State), and are still trying to get Garnett acclimated from injury. Since Boston typically does not score 77 a game, and Allen/Pierce typically does not shoot 5-25 from the field, and since Phoenix is typically not a "lockdown" defensive team... I have a hard time believing that this was a defensive struggle. Moreso I am thinking it is a tired team in Boston, getting run down after two fast break games against Denver and GS, and they got caught at a bad time in Phoenix. Result- ugly win for the Suns.

PS- the Suns roster has a grand total of one "lockdown" defender, and that is Bell. Nash does not play defense, Amare cannot defend pick and rolls and fouls too much, Shaq no longer has the quickness and agility and mobility to defend 1 on 1. And don't tell me that Amare's 2+ blocks per game equates to a great defender... he gets those blocks from the weak side on penetrators that blow past Nash, trying to make a lay up. Just cause he blocks a guard's lay up attempt twice a game does not mean he is a great defender. Again, look past the stats and analyze the performance. Marion's ability to guard a wide variety of people is going to be sorely missed, and could have an effect in the playoffs. Who is going to check the opponent's top scorer now? Bell can handle the outside shooter, but what about Anthony? Duncan? Nowitzki? Boozer? If you are going to respond with Amare, then I will be laughing as he routinely gets beat in the playoffs by those guys...

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How about you stop being an ass for no reason?

Saying Nash plays no defense is dumb. He does play defense. He constantly gets a hand up in the face of shooters and doubles on guys. However, he exerts so much energy running the offense, that it's all he can really do. He's not going to be how he is on offense and then like Raja on defense. NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE IS. Chris Paul isn't a defensive monster. Jason Kidd isn't a defensive monster. There's a reason why he's the absolute best Point Guard in the league going on 4 seasons now, and one of the best PGs in the game's history. Saying he plays "no" defense makes you look dumber than you already do.

Amare is also one of the leagues leading shot blockers. Doesn't matter how they come. All that matters is that they happen. What if he DIDN'T block those shots? He needs to improve - yes, but who in the league couldn't use some improvement? He plays decent defense. He's not AMAZING, but he's good. Combined with his offensive prowess, he's one of the top 3 power forwards in the league.

As for Marion... three things. 1) He's not really being missed around here (yet) and 2) He's doing pretty poorly over in Miami. Meanwhile, Shaq is thriving here... Finally 3) Grant Hill is stepping up pretty well in his absence.

We're a better team without him. Hill, Stoudemire, O'Neal are all playing better. O'Neal is getting back in absolutely amazing shape, a lot moreso than ANYONE nay-sayer would have said. He's already surpassed everything all the critics of the trade said. People said Hill was a liability, people said Shaq was a liability... blah blah blah. Suns consistently prove the nay-sayers wrong.

Look, if we hadn't made a move and we would have lost in the 2nd round of the playoffs, people would have been callign for jobs, trades, etc. Now we have, and so what, we may lose again but at least we have a more legit shot at winning the title now. We probably wouldn't have won it with Marion, in fact, I'd go so far as to say there was probably a 1 in 10 shot of winning the title against the other West teams.

I'm not being an ass for no reason, I just think that if a person is going to argue about sports, they should understand sports. Read the arguments. They are stupid. He didn't even watch the game, but just read a boxscore and heard yet another radio show and regurgitated that information here. It's idiotic. Had Phoenix won 120-110, we would have heard how Shaq was supposed to help the defense "but obviously he didn't!!"

Saying Shaq can't cover anyone one on one is fucking stupid. Saying Amare's blocked shots shouldn't count because he is blocking shots from weakside help (or whatever nonsense was said) is fucking stupid. How do you think the great shot blockers get blocked shots? They just block their own man's shots? Saying he fouls too much is fucking stupid. How many games has he fouled out of, Statman? I'm by no means a Suns fan, but seriously, give us a break.

All of Cicely's "sports knowledge" comes from what he heard on the radio or what a friend said. It has been that way for years. Watch a game and give us an opionion or keep your mouth shut. If you are determined to spread your "knowledge", be prepared to hear how much of a moron you are. I'd tell anyone this.

"I didn't watch the game but...." You should stop right there.
"I was listening to Skip Bayless and he said...." You should stop right there.
"Can anyone please explain why...." You should stop right there.

When I read the sports threads here, I get the feeling that *all* of you are regurgitating stuff you heard on TV / the radio, not just Cicely. And unlike you, it just doesn't bother me.

I don't really fault it because none of us have the time to be watching everything happening in sports. Really, we all do the same thing with politics too, but no one seems to care much there, either.

But for some reason, Cicely bothers you, and always has. You sound like you've been fucked by Cicely, and he never called the next day. It's time to move on!

To bring it back on topic, I gotta say the Suns are looking great atm... :p

And yes, I am watching the game.

Can't believe the Suns got blown out so hard. WTF? Man, that was just terrible. Sheesh.

That sure was some "lockdown" defense that I saw at the game today

It is quite apparent that the Suns cannot guard pick and roll. At all. Nash was NOT getting a hand in the face, and whomever was leading the pick and roll (Billups, Hamilton, Stuckey) was able to either dribble to the basket uncontested... or pass out to the open shooter (Wallace, McDyess). This happened a LOT in the first half when they jumped out to their 18 point half time lead.

Also, Phoenix's guards are not physical at all. They kept on repeatedly being posted up by Billups, Hamilton, Evans, etc... and kept on getting scored upon. The West does have some physical post up guards that will destroy Nash, Barbosa, Bell in the paint.

Also, Wallace simply had his way with Amare today. Wallace posted him up at least 6 times that I remember, and he made every single shot over Amare. Wow. Phenomenal defense!!! I am telling you, Amare is NOT a good defender. Just cause he blocks over 2 shots a game does NOT make him a good defender. Of course, there will always be people who equate 2+ blocks per game to an excellent defender... I say, they block 2 guard's lay up attempts per game. Oooo. Amare was lost on pick and roll defense, he could not handle Wallace posting him up, and he looked like the one-dimensional player that he is- score a lot of points.

I will say that Amare has improved his outside shot greatly. Props to him for that. And because of his athleticism and his height, he is pretty good at that one move where he catches it from the foul line extended, dribbles once to the basket, then with one hand tries to either dunk or lay up the ball. He has that move down pat if there is an opening for him to drive...

After watching the game today, I can confidently say that Friday nights' "defensive" performance is less of the Suns doing... and more of the Celtics' doing. They were probably just tired from the previous two nights, and a friend who did watch the game said that the first quarter was a fast break, up and down contest. Probably got tired towards the end of the game, hence the 77 points and 5-25 combined shooting.

And what an embarassment for Phoenix. Home town, national TV audience on ABC, afternoon game so everyone gets to see the new Suns and Shaq... and get blown out. And what is even better is that I would say at least 25% (maybe 1/3) of the fans there all had Pistons shirts and jerseys on. We were doing the Detroit chant, cheering after all the baskets, and overall making a LOT more noise than Suns fans. Hell, even Ceballos (crowd commentator at game, tells crowd to make some noise, etc etc) got on the mic and said something like "I know that there is a lot of Blue here, but c'mon Orange make some noise!" or something to that effect. When your own PR guy needs to tell you to make more noise than the opposing team's fans... then you fail as a sports fan. My sister called me half way through and asked me how many Detroit fans were there. Reason? She said watching it on ABC, she heard a LOT of cheers after every Piston basket, and wanted to make sure it was being played in Phoenix and not Detroit

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So I am impressed with this new and improved Suns "lockdown" defense that they are implementing and executing with Shaq. In Shaq's five games, the "lockdown" defense has let up-

130 to Lakers
77 to Celtics, who had back to back losses to fastbreak uptempo teams the night(s) before
116 to Pistons
113 to Grizzlies, without Miller
120 to Hornets

Wow. If that is "lockdown" defense, then I was wrong my entire life! Cause I thought "lockdown" defense meant that you actually held teams to well UNDER the league average of approx 97 points per game. Sure, they did it once to a Celtics team that was tired and winded on their West Coast trip after back to back losses to Warriors and Nuggets... but outside of that, wow.

I will say it again- the Suns do not, cannot, will not, refuse to, <insert own phrase> play defense. D'Antoni is not a defensive coach; Nash, Stoudamire, O'Neal are not defensive players; they are not able to defend pick and roll (the offensive staple play in the playoffs for most teams); and their guards are too small and weak to handle physical guards who can post them up. Giving up Marion meant giving up their top 1 on 1 defender, and on a team that already cannot play good team defense... that destroyed their defense.

They are headed to not having home court in the first round, and a possible first round playoff exit. Again, as I stated earlier, O'Neal BETTER come through in April-June. That is when it matters for Phoenix. If he comes through then and they win, then all is good. But right now, it is looking bleak... awfully bleak. When the Grizzlies have the lead with 2 minutes left in the game, that is a sign that you are no longer in the upper echelon of teams in the NBA and are no longer mentioned as a NBA Championship contender.

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So let me get this straight... the first 5 games of implementing a new style with a new team make up, with no significant practice time (like an off season) determines how well they will implement this new style of play.

It is comments like this that make some people want to ban you from talking about sports in the internet Cic... Your comments reflect a level of ignorance that is on par with DoctorX.

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Pretty sure the plan was to make a run at the championship this season, not after an off season of practice. The Suns don't look all that hot right now, to me. We'll see how it pans out in the end I suppose, but if I was a Pheonix fan I wouldn't be all that encouraged by the start they've gotten with Shaq.

I don't think the problem is with Shaq. Yeah, they've been blown out twice and 5-5 since Marion left, but I don't know.

The Suns are playing like shit, and still have one of the top records in the league. I wonder how deadly they'll be when they get their shit in gear. Seriously. I am so tired of thinking about it though, I am not even going to put any effort into it for a day or two. Burnt out on it, because I'm bummed about the situation, and need to wait and see what the Suns do.

I was going to comment on this, but Zatronn stated it perfectly well. The Suns made this move not for the 2008-09 season, or the season after that. They made it for this year... for April-June 2008. Period.

They have had to change their offensive philosophy somewhat since they brought Shaq aboard. It is extremely difficult to just up and change philosophies and styles mid-season, and usually teams that do that are limited in success. They have become slower, they have become more half court... and that is not what they do best. They are a run and gun team, they are an offensive team... and right now, they are failing at that. Outside of the theatrics and emotion of Shaq's first game vs the Lakers... they have broken their season average of 109 points per game only ONCE since Shaq started playing for them, and that was against a horrific defensive team in Memphis. If the "new and improved" Suns are a team that struggles to reach 100 points, then they are in serious trouble. Because they have proven time and time again that they are an awful defensive team.

PS- this season, the Suns are 6-13 against the top 8 teams in the Western Conference. The teams, of course, that they will be facing come playoff time. I know they will make the playoffs, but right now they are well on their way to a first round match up where they don't have home court advantage, and a first round exit.

PSS- the Suns have 24 games left. 12 of those 24 are against Western Conference teams currently in the playoffs, or fighting for that last Western Conference spot. And if you want to count Portland in that mix, that is 15 of their final 24 games are against Western Conference playoff teams (or close to playoff). They also have to travel to Detroit and Boston on an East Coast road trip... which means 17 of their final 24 games are against high quality, playoff caliber teams. Of those 17, 12 of them are against teams they are currently 6-13 against. They have a possible chance to be barely above .500 with Shaq on their roster, heading into the playoffs? Not a good sign at all...

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The Suns have been looking worse than the Mavs since they did their deals.

At least the Mavs have been CLOSE in the games they lost...

Huh? Mavs have 23 losses, and are still sub 40 wins. Heh.

Suns are playing atrocious right now. I am confident they will buck up but if they don't, it's very possible that they may miss the playoffs this year. Imagine that?

The suns have closed down all the problematic spots but now have a gaping hole on wing defense. If they can lock that down, surely their problems will go away. 21 games left. 40-21 right now, still a damn fine record considering how shitty they've played. Plus, post all-star break, they've had HANDS DOWN the hardest schedule, and have the toughest schedule to the playoffs.

hate to burst your bubble, well, yes I do...

the Sun's schedule is not "post all-star break, they've had HANDS DOWN the hardest schedule"

In the Sun's post All-Star break schedule they play the Lakers and New Orleans once and the Spurs twice and only two of those on the road.

The Mavs have played /will play the Lakers three times (twice in LA) New Orleans twice (one home/away) and San Antonio once in SA. The mavs just finished this strectch: @SA, vs Sacramento (back to back), @LAL, @ Utah and vs Houston (winners of 17 in a row). They get a few games against the east with Charlotte being the toughest game then start this run: vs LAL, vs and Bos in five days.

Yes the Suns start of Lakers, celtics, Detroit was tough but they don't have it tougher than everyone else.

Enough excuses. How 'bout them Rockets?

Wed 20 vs LA Lakers L 124-130
Fri 22 vs Boston W 85-77
Sun 24 vs Detroit L 86-116
Tue 26 @ Memphis W 127-113
Wed 27 @ New Orleans L 103-120
March Opponent Result
Sat 01 vs Philadelphia L 114-119
Tue 04 @ Portland W 97-92
Wed 05 @ Denver L 113-126

That's a pretty rough stretch. 2 back to back games, 4 games in 6 days, against really quality teams (Save Memphis.)

The rest?

Fri 07 vs Utah 7:00pm FSN AZ HD
Sun 09 vs San Antonio 12:30pm
Thu 13 vs Golden State 7:30pm RTV,
Sat 22 vs Houston 7:00pm FSN AZ HD
Mon 24 @ Detroit 4:30pm My45 HD NBATVHIGHDEF
Wed 26 @ Boston 4:00pm My45 HD
Mon 31 vs Denver 7:00pm FSN AZ HD NBATVHIGHDEF, RTV
Tue 01 @ Denver 6:00pm My45 HD , SCORE
Sun 06 vs Dallas 12:30pm
Wed 09 @ San Antonio 6:30pm My45 HD
Fri 11 @ Houston 5:30pm My45 HD
Mon 14 vs Golden State 7:00pm FSN AZ HD NBATVHIGHDEF

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you're fucking retarded if you think that's not the toughest schedule for the entire nba.

It is a Western Conference schedule.

Look at the Mavs. I am not saying they have the toughest schedule, but it is as tough as the Suns.

Wed 20 @ New Orleans (Division Leader)
Fri 22 @ Memphis
Sun 24 @ Minnesota
Mon 25 vs Chicago (B2B)
Thu 28 @ San Antonio (Division Leader)
Fri 29 vs Sacramento(B2B)
Sun 02 @ LA Lakers (Conference Leader)
Mon 03 @ Utah (Road B2B, 4 games in 5 days) (Top 4 Conference team)
Thu 06 vs Houston (17 game winning streak)
Sat 08 vs New Jersey (top 8 in east)
Mon 10 vs New York
Wed 12 vs Charlotte
Fri 14 vs Indiana
Sun 16 @ Miami
Tue 18 vs LA Lakers (Conference Leader)
Thu 20 vs Boston (Conference Leader)
Sun 23 vs San Antonio (Division Leader)
Tue 25 vs LA Clippers
Thu 27 @ Denver (Quality team)
Sun 30 @ Golden State (top 8 in west)
Mon 31 @ LA Clippers (B2B)
Wed 02 vs Golden State (top 8 in west)
Fri 04 @ LA Lakers (Confrence Leader)
Sun 06 @ Phoenix (struggling, but currently top 8 in west)
Tue 08 vs Seattle
Thu 10 vs Utah (top 4 in west)
Sat 12 @ Portland
Sun 13 @ Seattle (B2B)
Wed 16 vs New Orleans (top 3 in west)

Not that much difference in the two schedules, other than the Mavs have to play the Lakers, Jazz, and Spurs more....

The west is tough but the Suns have a much tougher schedule imo because of the teams they're facing and the way they're playing. they're 6-14 against the playoff seeded west. that's possibly the worst in the nba in playoff teams.

also, i don't count anyone outside of cavs, pistons, and celtics "tough" in the east, regardless if they're in the playoff seeding atm. it's not a drastic change imo, but i think the suns have had it super tough since all-star.

This picture cracks me up.

The reason why Shaq has been so key to winning rings in the past is he has another level he can play at in the post season. It remains to be seen whether he can still do that at this stage of his career, but none of us will know until round 1.

I agree with the last part of that assuming you're talking about the Suns when you say "the way they're playing". It really is tough to win games when you play like shit.