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 Post subject: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:00 PM 
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Anyone in the Beta? This writeup sort of has me interested (I have never played Starcraft or Warcraft):

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2 ... e-beta.ars


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:24 PM 
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Have you played other RTSs?

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:29 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:44 PM 
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My expectation is that the single player game alone will be well worth the price of admission and if you've never really played anything in the genre, I think it's a safe bet to say that this will end up being the ideal first stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:37 PM 
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I'm looking forward to Supreme Commander 2 more than this at this point. Honestly by the time they released StarCraft 2 some of the "new" graphics are going to look like something out of 2005. Supposedly most of the gameplay is going to remain the same as in SC1 minus the single player stuff. I never understood the point of playing an RTS in single-player mode anyway. Most of the appeal comes from fighting strategic human opponents and developing your army/base on the same level at the same starting point, not being given pre-scripted units on a silver platter and pretending you're carrying out some serious tactics.

If the real selling point is on higher production values than SC1, this is pretty bad news and it's no wonder that Diablo 3 is much higher on most peoples' anticipation lists. Maybe in 2012 they'll release it after updating the engine 5 times, who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:43 PM 
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I guess I don't understand what is taking them so long, with this or D2.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:27 PM 
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joxur wrote:
I guess I don't understand what is taking them so long, with this or D2.

As I understand it, much of the recent delay (last ~9 months) was mostly a result of the Battle.net overhaul not so much the game itself; the game has been playable for a very long time.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:37 PM 
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Even the final Diablo 2 content push is delayed.

Valve time. Fucking frogs fuck everything up.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:50 AM 
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Guess it depends on what you mean by playable. I was told the one at Blizzcon 1.5 years ago(obviously different at the more recent Blizzcon) or whenever wasn't really fully fleshed out even if it still had a number of the gameplay components that made it possible for matches to take place. Balance etc on the other hand left something to be desired.

It's interesting because lately we've seen a lot of serious quality games released on schedule on a decent timeframe. I'm starting to wonder if the Blizzard slogan call of "when it's ready we'll release the best quality game possible; quality over release date" is little more than a ruse at this point.

Gotta agree with Givin here - I'll take the fun quality games right now that other companies are already releasing, thank you.

Frankly in some ways I'm glad we're no longer in the past when Blizzard was one of the few options when you wanted a game of that caliber.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:21 AM 
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It's been what, 12 years since Starcraft 1?

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:39 AM 
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Yeah, something like that.

Played three games last night, single player versus CPU is not yet enabled as to promote genuine multiplayer matches but that makes exploration of the various units tough.

Admittedly the environment isn't as 'intricate' as say Company of Heroes, but the whole look is superb. Most importantly though, the game fits like a well worn pair of jeans - outstanding control and UI.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:25 PM 
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Installing it right now, my computer has been blue screening on me tho (win 7 64), hopefully I don't kill it with SC2.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:12 AM 
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Managed to get in a few more games over the weekend, I was incorrect about being unable to play the computer by yourself - you simply need to create a custom game, add a computer player and away you go.

I’m quite impressed with how they gradually introduce you into the multiplayer scene, the first four games you'll play are considered ‘preliminary’ and thus the maps are slightly modified versions of the regular maps. As far as I can tell, the modifications only include blocking each main base entrance with destructible rocks (2000 hitpoints). So by the time you’re enemy is able to chew through the 4000 hitpoints (his rocks and yours) to get to you, you should have at least some defensive structures and units.

After those four games are played (you have the option to skip them), you then have to play ten ‘ranking’ matches for each game type (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4) you want to participate in. How you fare in those ranking matches determines what ladder ‘bracket’ you get put in (ie. Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc.) and from there on out you compete for the top spot of your ladder with people of like skill level.

My understanding is that you’re also unable to create additional ‘accounts’ and thus can’t create extras for which to smurf people with (ala CoH). Lastly, Blizzard intends to have ‘sub-brackets’ for each main bracket (ie. Gold #1, Gold #2, Gold #3) to create a sense of community with those you’re playing against which I think is another step in the right direction, I believe they’re shooting for maybe a couple hundred people per sub-group.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:14 PM 
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So wait, are you stuck in those brackets for life after the first 10 games for each type or after that can you switch to a higher bracket should you choose to... say you wanted to try your luck against the Platinum players, etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:26 PM 
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I'm not really sure because I haven't seen or experienced that myself, but from what I saw on the beta forums, it seems as though it's possible to graduate to a higher bracket if your record warrants it.

That said, I'm not sure if the option to move up would be voluntary or forced; I would have to imagine it would be voluntary because if you're vying for the top spot in your current bracket, it would make no sense to get bumped up out of that bracket because you went on a tear.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:37 PM 
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Ok so you need to play bad for the first few games to be put with the noob bracket then own them. Check.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:31 PM 
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Finlainea wrote:
Ok so you need to play bad for the first few games to be put with the noob bracket then own them. Check.

I can't wait either.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:34 PM 
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Rushing is even worse in SC2 than in SC1, harder to protect against since those zerglings are kamikaze! They explode before your turrets can even do shit. Oh well, new strategies to come up with to protect my bases.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:08 PM 
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Rushing is one reason I really dislike playing online. I prefer longer, epic battles rather than overwhelming someone in 5 minutes with a ton of basic units. There really is zero strategy involved in building several facilities to pump out as many "infantry" as possible and then send them all charging into the enemy's camp. Any moron can do that and that's why it is so prevalent online in every RTS I've ever played.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:14 PM 
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My favorite RTS games are when you have units that gain experience as they stay alive. It makes protection and healing a pretty big deal, and if you ever lose that unit, pretty upsetting. Master of Magic actually had a great system for that, though it wasn't an RTS.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:24 PM 
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The brilliance of a RTS game, especially a great one like Starcraft, is the challenge of balancing an army, an economy and technology. Since there's no strategy in massing first tier units, shouldn't it be easy to counter?

If ladder competition is not what you're after and you prefer maps like Big Game Hunters and massing Battlecruisers / Carriers, that's fine - there's room for both types of players but don't denounce the game because you only prefer the latter approach.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:16 AM 
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Quote:
It's Official, StarCraft II Hits Stores July 27

Matt Peckham
May 3, 2010 6:04 pm

Attachment:
195510-starcraft-2-wings-of-liberty_original.jpg

StarCraft II Wings of Liberty

Don't worry, the clattering cacophony you're hearing is probably just the sound of a million gamers pre-ordering StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, since it finally has a launch date, and it's sooner than you think.

Sooner, as in July 27, the day Blizzard Entertainment says its space-based real-time game should be available from sea to shining sea, along with Canada, Europe, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Russia, Mexico, Singapore...need I continue? (Okay: Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, the Philippines, and regions of Taiwan, Hong Kong, and of all places, Macau--no, I couldn't tell you where that is without looking it up first either.)

Insert the part where Blizzard bigwig Mike Morhaine says they've been waiting to revisit the StarCraft universe for years, that the beta's going great, that they can't wait to welcome all the new players, and all that yada-yada. Really Blizzard, we don't need to know you're excited. That goes without saying. Your job's to tell us something we don't already know.

Like, are you sure the only copy protection scheme you're using in the game is the ol' one-time online activation? Even that's new for you, and I think I speak for most in saying anything more would be a deal-breaker.

And speaking of "most," are you still stoked for this one? Cool with the notion it'll be nothing revolutionary, but rather more of the same, zeroed on competitive multi-play, with spiffier graphics?


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:20 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 8:23 AM 
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Has anyone been playing the beta at all?

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:41 AM 
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A good amount of Vita folks are playing the beta and having a lot of fun it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 10:41 AM 
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Maybe now they will have time to work on something worthwhile, like oh say, Diablo 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:41 PM 
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Been in the beta for a bit now as well; I think it's shaping up pretty nicely. I can't believe it's taken them this long though, the graphics look like something out of 2004(and the sad thing is, they probably are!). They've balanced the new units pretty well IMO. The map editor is pretty incredible, and it's capable of tons of different shit. I'm looking forward to seeing all the different maps people come up with. Very fun game to be sure. Not going to be the diversion that Diablo 3 will be from WoW, but it's definitely worth playing.

I guess my one stipulation is that I feel so awkward playing RTS games that don't have the zoomout feature that Supreme Commander 1 added in. Maybe I just played too much of it back in the day and got used to it, but it's annoying not to have it and it feels a little dated to have to point, click, and edge-pan the camera around. Every RTS these days should have something similar, and it just looks like a complete /facepalm for Blizz for it not to be included.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:17 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:43 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 10:33 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:27 PM 
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I am in Beta atm game is fun but does stay close to the original design.

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I just started about a week ago ;( so still rusty but Im happy I still remember the keyboard commands !

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:40 PM 
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CakvalaSC wrote:
I am in Beta atm game is fun but does stay close to the original design.

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I just started about a week ago ;( so still rusty but Im happy I still remember the keyboard commands !

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I'll look you up next time I'm on.

For Venen, where can I find screenshots from RTSs with better graphics? I typically don't play a large volume of games so it's quite possible I'm out of the loop with respect to what other studios are able to do but I've found the graphics, at least on 'ultra', to be very impressive - certainly no less impressive than the best that CoH and DoW2 had to offer and neither game approaches the number of units on screen at once that you regularly find in SC2.

Second, why would you want to zoom out? Such a feature drastically changes how the game is played. Starcraft is a very intimate real time strategy, to simply state that zooming out should be a required method of control shows little understanding of the genre.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:53 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:17 PM 
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I got a beta key from a friend. My first reaction is that Starcraft 2 is almost exactly like Starcraft 1. Disappointed but I'm not surprised at all
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 8:13 PM 
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Quote:
For Venen, where can I find screenshots from RTSs with better graphics? I typically don't play a large volume of games so it's quite possible I'm out of the loop with respect to what other studios are able to do but I've found the graphics, at least on 'ultra', to be very impressive - certainly no less impressive than the best that CoH and DoW2 had to offer and neither game approaches the number of units on screen at once that you regularly find in SC2.

Second, why would you want to zoom out? Such a feature drastically changes how the game is played. Starcraft is a very intimate real time strategy, to simply state that zooming out should be a required method of control shows little understanding of the genre.


I've had the settings on ultra for everything since the beginning and I don't see how it comes to close most other RTS's out there, including CoH and especially DoW2. Honestly not sure how you're suggesting the graphics there are better. I certainly would suggest that they don't compare to Supreme Commander 1(or even 2 for that matter, where the graphics were arguably worse). Goes without saying they wouldn't compare with Napoleon Total War or Empire, though granted those are different genres, it still suggests there's room for improvement.

You don't even need to compare RTS's, though. There are plenty of examples of superior graphics out there that don't necessarily run on an RTS engine. While I'm sure it's a challenge to program specifically for RTS gameplay while still maintaining stability in situations where you have a massive number of units on the screen all doing different things, this still looks like something out of 2004.

I'm just saying it looks dated, and it shows. They have kept this game in development for what, maybe 4-5 years? It's no doubt that with a dev cycle that long it's going to show. The problem lies in the fact that when they upgraded the graphics(I think it was 2 years ago) and art, they really didn't do so on a large enough scale.

With regard to the zoom-out feature, I fail to see how it would "drastically" change how the game is played. I am not suggesting that it be 100 percent required any less than it is required in SupCom(with the caveat being that the maps are obviously going to be smaller). All it does is move you around the map in terms of actual gameplay mechanics. If anything, asking what purpose it would serve shows a lack of understanding of the RTS genre. It's a far more accurate way of getting precisely the view you need at any time and being able to zone into an area on a whim. It takes more time to click or pan around than it does to use the scroll-wheel if you're looking to get an exact view of where you want the camera to be in order to control your units, regardless of how fast you are.

While Unit selection-bound keys are a step in the right direction, you're still going to be at a net loss in terms of camera control and being able to see things on both a macro and micro level with mouse-pointer precision(on the fly even while controlling units, no less) such as in SupCom. While StarCraft is undoubtedly a more "intimate" RTS with regard to tactics, build orders, and general management(as upposed to the zerg-fest that Supcom admittedly was), it stands to lose nothing from this feature, and stands to gain ease of use of the camera and better views at any time of the battlefield.

It's simply one of those horrible design decisions by Blizz that just made me think "Why in the world would they leave that out in 2010?". I realize I may be in the minority and prefer to be efficient/fast with my camera, not to mention be capable of attaining a massively higher number of perspectives on the field.

Fortunately, this feature might be somewhat implementable with the editor. That still doesn't quite forgive the aforementioned /facepalm, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:26 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:41 AM 
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joxur wrote:
I got a beta key from a friend. My first reaction is that Starcraft 2 is almost exactly like Starcraft 1. Disappointed but I'm not surprised at all
.


To be honest, that was what I was hoping for, a Starcraft tailored to todays computers.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:53 AM 
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I think you are getting a Starcraft tailored to 3 years ago's computers.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:18 AM 
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That's a good thing; my computer is about 3 years old!


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:36 AM 
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That's a good thing; my computer is about 3 years old!



Mine too! So it runs okay but makes me want to spend money on upgrading. >_<

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:45 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 1:55 PM 
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I don't think anyone suggested otherwise, although classic zoomout is arguably a nice interface feature FOR the gameplay =p Doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice if we weren't witnessing 5-year-old graphics on full ultra settings.

Also forgot about World in Conflict, which also hosts some impressive graphics, especially for some 2+ years ago.

The graphics deal is more of a "why the hell not make it better?" thing. Blizzard is making the leap of faith that internet connections are 100 percent standard now(which, unfortunately, they really aren't, especially if you consider broken/laggy connections), why not make that same leap that people have a video card that isn't 15 years old?


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:01 PM 
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Company of Heroes has nice graphics and awesome gameplay. SC2 disapoint me so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 3:52 PM 
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Since when the shit has Blizzard EVER been bleeding edge on requirements? That's right, they haven't. They've always kept shit behind the current curve, at least partially to increase available player base.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 4:50 PM 
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That may be true from a system spec standpoint, but they could modernize the game a tiny bit. Staying true to classic gameplay is one thing... Being lazy because you know people will buy the product is another. I would give them the benefit of the doubt but their decision to release each campaign as a separate game really cements the impression.

As it stands, the only reason I'd play this is to see the single player story in the hopes this game is a precursor to a mmo like WC3 was to WoW, but I think I'll just read the cheesy fiction instead if it comes to that.

The fact is there are just many better games out there to drop 50 bucks on nostalgia with better graphics.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:17 PM 
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I've always wanted to see System of Starcraft!

It would be something to see them go Space MMO, similar to the Star Trek MMO..../shiver


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:09 PM 
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Bleeding edge? I saw 5 years mentioned, not 2 months =) Surely there's something in between those time periods that would be an acceptable enough modernization beyond 5 years worth of graphics.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:15 PM 
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Still waiting on somebody to post screenshots of these supposed other games with vastly superior graphics and people love to conveniently forget the number of units required to be rendered on screen at once.

Anyways, here's what I found based on the only two RTS games I know to be released this year.

Supreme Commander 2

Image
Image
Image

C&C 4

Image
Image

Starcraft 2

Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:39 PM 
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Just for the record, SupCom2 is a horrible incarnation of SupCom1 in terms of gameplay, don't buy it. Just wanted to get that out of the way =p

Those screenshots are proof enough, thanks for posting them. C&C4 looks worse, but still obviously has better particle effects than you see anywhere in SC2. SupCom2 looks significantly better in terms of environmental layout, particle effects, and texture. I'm partial to videos since it's always better to judge graphics while they're animated to get a good feel for the engine, and it's also where SC2 looks the saddest.

DoW2 and World in Conflict arguably have better graphics than C&C4 as well, without even mentioning SC2, and they were released years before(well, 1 year or so in the case of DoW2).

The only worthy note of the SC2 SS's here is the lower one where they have some relatively decent structual units and city street detail. But, considering you can only rotate the camera half-circle and barely even zoom in, you won't be seeing much of that detail in any variety of perspective at all. It almost goes hand in hand with the points I noted about the complete lack of a zoomout feature. Forget the fact that it doesn't have it, it won't even give you a simpler rotating camera that(in modern terms at least) sorta started with the TW series and now is seen in a variety of RTS games.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:12 PM 
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In Starcraft 2 the zoom (or lack of zoom I should say) make me feel like i'm playing on a 14 inch monitor in 800x600 again.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:56 PM 
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Yea, I thought it was something wrong with my set-up when it wouldn't let me zoom out to what I perceived was actual levels. Then I found out that was the game being gay. I hate not being able to zoom out more.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:57 AM 
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Venen wrote:
Just for the record, SupCom2 is a horrible incarnation of SupCom1 in terms of gameplay, don't buy it. Just wanted to get that out of the way =p

Those screenshots are proof enough, thanks for posting them. C&C4 looks worse, but still obviously has better particle effects than you see anywhere in SC2. SupCom2 looks significantly better in terms of environmental layout, particle effects, and texture. I'm partial to videos since it's always better to judge graphics while they're animated to get a good feel for the engine, and it's also where SC2 looks the saddest.

DoW2 and World in Conflict arguably have better graphics than C&C4 as well, without even mentioning SC2, and they were released years before(well, 1 year or so in the case of DoW2).

The only worthy note of the SC2 SS's here is the lower one where they have some relatively decent structual units and city street detail. But, considering you can only rotate the camera half-circle and barely even zoom in, you won't be seeing much of that detail in any variety of perspective at all. It almost goes hand in hand with the points I noted about the complete lack of a zoomout feature. Forget the fact that it doesn't have it, it won't even give you a simpler rotating camera that(in modern terms at least) sorta started with the TW series and now is seen in a variety of RTS games.

It's convenient that you're now asking for video because 'that's where SC2's awfulness really shines'... Anyway, it's clear to me that you're simply just trying to get a rise out of me; claiming the textures in SupCom2 are significantly better made that pretty clear, anyone can look at the ground textures and see that that's not the case.

The whole zoom bandwagon that people have jumped on is another matter entirely, as I've said before such a 'feature' changes the way the game is played. The difference is comparable to that of a 1st person RPG versus a 3rd person RPG and if that's your cup of tea than great. Company of Heroes is one the best RTSs released in the past 5+ years years and it has no 'zoom out' feature, what gives there? Dawn of War?

The real irony here is that people are slamming SC2 for its bad graphics yet also want to be able to zoom out and control their army when they're no more than squares, triangles and circles on a map.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:00 AM 
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I'm mostly slamming SC2 because it fucking sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:26 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:30 AM 
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We can talk about our favorite features from Starcraft 1 that are perfectly preserved for us to experience all over again, and the effect SC2 will have on the Korean competitive market! I just hope I don't get too hot in my giant Protoss costume! Maybe we can roleplay while we're in line!


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:19 PM 
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Quote:
It's convenient that you're now asking for video because 'that's where SC2's awfulness really shines'... Anyway, it's clear to me that you're simply just trying to get a rise out of me; claiming the textures in SupCom2 are significantly better made that pretty clear, anyone can look at the ground textures and see that that's not the case.


Eh? As I said, I don't need to refer to videos even if it's a more accurate representation(hey wow, you can tell what an engine looks like in action via videos? WHOA!). The screenshots you posted are proof enough. Sure I suppose you could argue the ground textures are better in SC2, even though you have much, much more variation in landscape with SupCom with many more possibilities for physics implementation(lot more difference in elevation fights when hills don't typically consist of "layer 1, layer 2, layer 3" as they mostly do in SC2, though some of it is changable via the map editor). The textures on the units as well as the lighting/shadow effects as well as the particle effects of weapons, IMO no question goes to SupCom 1/2.

Quote:
The whole zoom bandwagon that people have jumped on is another matter entirely, as I've said before such a 'feature' changes the way the game is played. The difference is comparable to that of a 1st person RPG versus a 3rd person RPG and if that's your cup of tea than great. Company of Heroes is one the best RTSs released in the past 5+ years years and it has no 'zoom out' feature, what gives there? Dawn of War?


Care to elaborate on exactly how it changes the gameplay, and not simply perspective? Sure you have actual games where the gameplay varies and it's more conducive to third-person perspective, but that's a development choice that's based on perspective. Action RPGs versus Classic free-roam RPGs, for example. Playing Oblivion or Mass Effect from an over-the-top third-person view would seem pretty weird, but the actual gameplay wouldn't change one iota so long as you could feasibly play it without hiccups. It's even less noticeable in an RTS with regards to "gameplay" when you're zooming out because you've always had an over-the-top third-person view. The dynamics of how you group up and move units, use abities, and everything else is retained.

Oh, and it's beyond silly to suggest that since a game is the "best" RTS released in years, it couldn't stand to benefit from improvements. Yea, brilliant logic there. We'll just settle with "the best" at any given point in time, I'm sure =)

Quote:
The real irony here is that people are slamming SC2 for its bad graphics yet also want to be able to zoom out and control their army when they're no more than squares, triangles and circles on a map.


You do realize that with a similar zoomout feature, the potential number of perspectives that include mere circles and triangles are infinitesimal, right? Not to mention it's not as if most SupCom players use it and then just stay at the highest possible perspective - more often it's used as an easy way to get from one portion of the map to another without panning or clicking around and without losing perspective on the battle. Not to even mention that it would allow for closer zooming as well. This is like saying marines are too small and then concluding that the graphics suck. I don't have words to address that kind of argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:02 PM 
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joxur wrote:
My favorite RTS games are when you have units that gain experience as they stay alive. It makes protection and healing a pretty big deal, and if you ever lose that unit, pretty upsetting. Master of Magic actually had a great system for that, though it wasn't an RTS.



Not on topic but......

Master of Magic rules!!!!!!

I have Dos Box loaded on my comp just so that I can play this game.

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:06 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:37 AM 
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joxur wrote:
We can talk about our favorite features from Starcraft 1 that are perfectly preserved for us to experience all over again, and the effect SC2 will have on the Korean competitive market! I just hope I don't get too hot in my giant Protoss costume! Maybe we can roleplay while we're in line!


:axe: blob1 weirdeat

OMGZ can we twitter about it while we sit next to eachother too?!?1?1?/1!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Starcraft 2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:57 PM 
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Battle.net 2.0: The Antithesis of Consumer Confidence(Link)

Quote:
Note A: This entry reflects a “current event”. Things change. So if I’m ranting that Pac-Man represents the technological heights of Reagan’s America, keep an open mind.

Note B: Took note of the complaints about the structure of the article and I agreed with you guys. I made a goof. Went ahead and fixed that up. Hopefully, this works out a bit better.

Note C: Noticed I got a nod on Reddit. And now Fark. Props to all the feedback. Always looking to get better at this, and comments (positive or negative) help me do that. I want to emphasize that Dustin Browder and company did an awesome, awesome job on the game itself. My qualms are with an interface I believe the game design team had little to do with. Just don’t want the achievements of Starcraft II lost in a combination of corporate politics and gamer rage.

I’m late to the Battle.net 2.0 Hate Party, but I brought a keg, so here goes.

I don’t get angry about video games. Passionate? Yeah, it’s pathetic. But no, not angry. Game developers are people, too. They got bills to pay. But Battle.net 2.0 makes me angry.

Starcraft II is excellence. It’s sensational. Dustin Browder knew this game was his legacy and his squad delivered. And it’s a fucking shame people are going to turn on this product for things Browder has no control over. Right now, the Battle.net Forums look like the Battle of the Somme and Starcraft fan site TeamLiquid is trying to disown the game. The internet has shat a brick. What the hell happened?

I wasn’t around for the “Atari owns the industry” days. But in my lifetime, nothing tops Activision-Blizzard, a corporate culture whose roots lie in four developers who escaped Atari’s corporate culture. I have never seen one company try so hard to tell me this is the product I want.

Battle.net 2.0 is supposed to be the future of online gaming. Instead, it is the antithesis of consumer confidence, a combination of corporate suits who don’t play video games and game designers who can’t do damage control.

Fine, tell me it’s wrong to assume an Activision corporate culture would impact its corporate partner. You know, where the President of Blizzard Entertainment answers directly to Thomas Tippl, an executive who answers to Activision C.E.O. Bobby Kotick. The Bobby Kotick who disowned projects that lacked “the potential to be exploited every year on every platform with clear sequel potential”. The Bobby Kotick who stated he wants to “take the fun out of making video games.” Or you can see what happens when an online gaming service is not a game design decision.



The Battle.net 2.0 marketing approach has been simple: “We removed [function] because of [scapegoat].” It’ll sound good to the GameStop crowd, and Starcraft players will call bullshit. Since computer gamers have a habit of organizing boycotts on the grounds of crappy box art, the mainstream will throw up their hands and say “There they go again.” And then when Blizzard releases the game, computer fans will say “We told you so.”

Look at LAN. In June of 2009, Blizzard Entertainment revealed there would be none. The reason? Blizzard wanted to give its fans a quality product.

“While this was a difficult decision for us, we felt that moving away from LAN play and directing players to our upgraded Battle.net service was the best option to ensure a quality multiplayer experience with StarCraft II and safeguard against piracy.” – Bob Colyaco, Blizzard Public Relations Representative

That’s right: Battle.net 2.0 is going to be so awesome, you won’t need LAN. May surprise you: Many months ago, I defended it.

“Eliminating the ability to play Starcraft II through a Local Area Network does not mean you won’t be able to play the game through an equivalent. You can’t cut through a Battle Report or Q&A Batch or Dustin’s Terrible Terrible Blogspot without having it drenched in e-sport. Blizzard didn’t build the game for competition, for television, simply to decide we can’t fight it out latency free. This is the sequel to gaming’s biggest spectator sport.

“What we can say is that you will have to hook into the internet to play the game. This is a piracy thing, and the Steam approach appears to be the compromise being offered by developers. Ten years ago, a CD-Key was good enough. Today, Blizzard does not want to get snakebit by another case of Garena, where hundreds of thousands play Defense of the Ancients with illegal copies of Warcraft III. My guess is that Battle.net 2.0 will emulate Steam’s product. Players looking to LAN will log into Battle.net to verify the game’s legitimacy, and then proceed to play on an emulated equivalent.



“If you are playing somebody through Battle.net via a local network, you will have LAN latency, and you will not be disconnected from your local game if your internet connection dies on you. There. I just eased eighty percent of the concern.”

I made a mistake. Not just assuming “There’s no way Blizzard can be that dumb.” I thought LAN was about piracy. If piracy was the concern, it wouldn’t make sense to pass up internet-authenticated LAN. But piracy is an easy target. Especially when the real reason is a laughingstock in the Western World. Already discussed it in detail: The elimination of LAN creates a world where Blizzard is the unquestioned overlord of “Starcraft II: The Sport”. Read the Terms of Service lately?

“You agree that you will not, under any circumstances…use the Service for any “e-sports” or group competition sponsored, promoted or facilitated by any commercial or non-profit entity without Blizzard’s prior written consent;” – Starcraft II Battle.net Terms of Use, Current as of May 28th

Want to run a major Starcraft II tournament? Hope you got money. Blizzard wants a cut. Yeah, Blizzard isn’t tossing lawyers at your college tournament. And why bother? Saw what happened at the University of Central Florida? Where 100 gamers showed up for a tournament and found out Battle.net could only handle twelve university network users at once? And then Battle.net crashed during the round of sixteen and threw the legitimacy of the event into question? Blizzard isn’t worried. The company set up the system so you can’t compete with them. It just sells the message: “Thanks for making Starcraft a spectator sport, fans. Now fuck off.“

That’s why your game is region-locked. Got friends in Europe? Too bad. You can’t play with them. Blizzard has international Starcraft tournaments to sell. They can’t have Germany’s Dario Wunsch (TheLittleOne) and American-in-Korea Greg Fields (IdrA) playing each other whenever they feel like it. That’ll dilute the demand for Major League Gaming’s “Europe versus America” event, brought to you by Mountain Dew: Rainbow Seizure. Your “official reason” for the omission?

“Yes, when it releases on day one, if you want to connect with your friends in the US, get the US box or if you want to play with Koreans, then get the Korean box. However if you want to get the best experience out of your game here in South East Asia, you should get the local boxset. The latency, the community, those things are going to really define the experience, and you don’t want to miss out on that.” – Kevin Yu, Blizzard Community Manager

Blizzard Entertainment eliminated LAN on an implied premise that everyone has broadband internet and latency will not be an issue. According to the company, the game is region-locked because latency will be an issue. Starcraft features an internationally-diverse competitive gaming scene. According to the company, confining them to regional servers will foster community. Can’t make this stuff up.

Next? Battle.net 2.0 limits you to a single CD-Key per person. That’s it. That’s your sixty-dollar purchase. According to the company, this is because you are an asshole.

“Really good players, they don’t necessarily want to play themselves. They want to go beat up on the noob because that’s really fun.” – Rob Pardo, Vice President of Game Design, Blizzard Entertainment

More..........

(Full story on link)


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