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 Post subject: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:29 AM 
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In moments like the tragedy in Conn. and many others even the single daily senseless deaths, when it feels like all hope is lost, It was these brief moments yesterday I found myself wishing the Mayans would be right in 7 days.

:-(


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:05 PM 
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Yesterday was a horrible tragedy and I just could not fathom why things like that happen.

The world can be a very ugly place. For those who have children, hold them tight!

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:53 AM 
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CakvalaSC wrote:
Yesterday was a horrible tragedy and I just could not fathom why things like that happen.

The world can be a very ugly place. For those who have children, hold them tight!


Screw that. Take them to a gun range. and show them how to defend themselves.

Don't cuddle them let them KNOW the world can be a harsh and nasty place. Then show them a better way.

* Blaming guns for deaths, is like blaming your pencil for your spelling mistakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:09 PM 
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I must have missed the part where Cak, or anyone else here really, blamed guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:36 PM 
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Internet. Most people are radical weird liberals with a hard on for taking guns away from people.

Head it off at the pass!

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:11 PM 
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You remind me of my Facebook the last few days. Several hundred friends. 50+ posts moaning about how liberals now want to take away their precious guns. Not a single post from any liberal actually saying that.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:59 PM 
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Fribur wrote:
You remind me of my Facebook the last few days. Several hundred friends. 50+ posts moaning about how liberals now want to take away their precious guns. Not a single post from any liberal actually saying that.


I actually had quite a few. What irks me more is the liberals in the media using this horrific thing to make up things about the weapons this kid used for their agenda.

Things like: "He shot his way into the building...that is what an assault rifle does for you.He SHOT open an entrance" ----When I believe he shot a window. A hammer could serve the same purpose but he makes it sound like an AR-15 is a bazooka.

"He had an AR-15 Assault Weapon and several "fully loaded magazines"------K. Fully loaded? What a stupid ass phrase intended for more "omg how dreadful" flavor. It's a magazine. You fill it with bullets. You fill it up for the gun to have ammunition. Ofcourse the magazine is fully loaded.

"He had a bullet proof vest" --------I'm still waiting to hear this one. The media always describes any gear worn by the assailants as bullet proof vests, when more often than not its a fabric vest with magazine pouches..etc

The problem I have with the media is you have these people reporting on guns when they've likely never seen, owned, handled, or fired one...thus the outrage when Piers Morgan exclaims "A GLOCK IS A HIGH PERFORMACE MILITARY GRADE WEAPON USED ONLY FOR KILLING PEOPLE MY GOD HOW DID SHE WHY DID SHE HAVE ACCESS TO SUCH A DEADLY WEAPON"...blah blah.

It's absolutely horrible that this massacre happened but holy shit if the liberals aren't pissing themselves like an excited cocker spaniel behind closed doors at the inflammatory ammunition this tragic event has provided them.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:59 PM 
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It would be pretty sweet if we could get rid of all the guns though. Or at least make the words "well-regulated militia" mean anything at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:09 PM 
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randy wrote:
It would be pretty sweet if we could get rid of all the guns though. Or at least make the words "well-regulated militia" mean anything at all.


Nah, I like my guns.

We need to have better system of weeding out and dealing with mentally defective people. Pretty much all of the shootings that have received the massive publicity like Columbine, Aurora etc...were perpetrated by utterly batshit lunatics that people knew/suspected were extremely mentally disturbed.

Also, as horrible as this may sound...this kind of thing needs far less publicity because all it does is give the next Kid whose family has known he is a psychopath in the making an idea to run out and do it too.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:25 PM 
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In 20 years there will be countless other, probably many times more efficient, ways to kill people than with guns. In many circumstances, the distinctions between tools and effective weapons will also narrow. Still not sure what "getting rid of all the guns" would accomplish in an era of continued technological miniaturization and access.

Get rid of your firewall and trust that hackers will adopt the same mindset!


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:27 PM 
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Yeah but a gun is manufactured with the express purpose of killing something, and is far more deadly than other conventional weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:41 PM 
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Also I think guns are cool too, but they're far too easy to get and there's no regulatory maintenance required afterward. If there was mandatory regular training (like being in the National Guard, or monthly observed range hours) that came with owning a gun, that would be ideal, because then you would have a well regulated militia. I just don't think the thousands of gun deaths annually should be the cost of that freedom.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:46 PM 
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Since we are venting about the stupid shit blasted about Facebook and the interwebs, I want to say a huge SHUT UP to all those so-called "conservative Christians" saying "because God was not allowed in schools, he couldn't protect the children?

BULL SHIT.

People on the far left want to remove/alter the 2nd Amendment.
People on the far right want to remove/alter the 1st Amendment.

How about people wake up and deal with the real issue and not put bandages on symptoms.

What do the majority of "mass violence" in the US have in common other than the use of firearms? The person committing these horrible acts had some pretty major mental issues.

I understand the need for everyone to be equally protected, but our entire attitude towards mental health in this country is messed up.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:27 PM 
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krby71 wrote:
Since we are venting about the stupid shit blasted about Facebook and the interwebs, I want to say a huge SHUT UP to all those so-called "conservative Christians" saying "because God was not allowed in schools, he couldn't protect the children?

BULL SHIT.

People on the far left want to remove/alter the 2nd Amendment.
People on the far right want to remove/alter the 1st Amendment.

How about people wake up and deal with the real issue and not put bandages on symptoms.

What do the majority of "mass violence" in the US have in common other than the use of firearms? The person committing these horrible acts had some pretty major mental issues.

I understand the need for everyone to be equally protected, but our entire attitude towards mental health in this country is messed up.


I can see your point, people are upset and want to place blame they need a scape goat to make them feel better. Honestly, I don't think we can place blame, it was a tradegy caused someone who wasnt with sound mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:15 PM 
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Oddly. I agree with some sort of mandatory maintenance training and qualification for owning guns of a certain level. Your average single shit at a time hunting rifle and revolver? No. That's fine. Anything above it? Ought to require a yearly qualification course, not to own, but to have some kind of certificate or card on you.. that you present when you DO shoot the shit ought of someone. If you don't have it current. your ass gets fined or jail time (slender of course...).

My ultimate change to our government would be MANDATORY 2 years "government service" from high school graduation (or 18 if you quit school): be it serving in some kind of special government controlled and regulated Service (Re Cross or something), the Military, or 2 years of a government directed and controlled Degree.

Something.. ANYTHING that forces the people of the country to have a personal stake in the government itself, in helping and pushing forward the country and its people.

People will vote.. they will think.. they will consider; MUCH more about the government that rules over them if they have had, and or DO have a personal stake in it, especially if you start losing some rights (Not basic ones) of that government if you choose to walk away from it and NOT serve.

I guarantee there'd be a lot less people with guns out there.. willing to put them to use on each other, if they had a stint in the military under them (barring all the gangs in the military apparently).

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:13 PM 
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Big government? Yeah... that would be MASSIVE government.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:11 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:58 PM 
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You remind me of my Facebook the last few days. Several hundred friends. 50+ posts moaning about how liberals now want to take away their precious guns. Not a single post from any liberal actually saying that.


Yeah, it always seems like the, "NO YOU CANT HAVE MY GUNS THEN ONLY CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS AND HOW WILL WE DEFEND OURSELVES FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE CAN STILL KILL YOU WITH FORKS SO ITS OK" posts come before any of the gun-control posts.

They're pretty....quick on the trigger. /rimshot


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:59 PM 
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Actually, it happened in this very thread! =D


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:34 PM 
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Also in this thread: Larreth just suddenly coming to the realization that the media tends to sensationalize things. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:04 PM 
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Larreth wrote:
weeding out and dealing with mentally defective people


I lolled


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:15 AM 
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I'm sorry to be the guy that links an article but doesn't add much, but I'm doing it anyway.

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-are- ... ns-2012-12

That article sums up my thoughts on gun control very well, and much more eloquently than I could do it.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:03 AM 
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California has the strictest gun laws in the country and yet they had a whopping 1220 firearm murders, more than NY and Texas combined.

Gun laws won't fix anything. Since 2004 when the assault weapons ban expired gun violence has dropped by 15%. in 2005 there were 10,125 murders with a firearm, in 2011 there were 8538. and this has been a steady decline, not an up and down trend.

People yell and scream about "Assault" weapons and how they need to be banned because they kill so many people. More facts. in 2005 there were 425 rifle related murders in 2011 232, a 27.5% decline. That figure from the FBI includes ALL rifles, not just assault rifles. The general public just assumes 'Assault" weapons are what is killing everyone because all they see on TV is people shooting an AK/AR out of the window of a car while driving down the street. Blame it on the media/movies/talking heads, but the facts do not lie.

We as a society need to change 2 things or we are done. Change the way we celebrate wanton carnage and bring back the fear of repercussion for ANY crime involving a firearm. Today's youth are so desensitized to death the only way you will wake them up is to let them actually experience first hand the end results of their crime. (I know I will get all kinds of flack for this but that is fine.) Bring back public hangings and let these people witness their kewl friends kicking at the end of a rope for 30 seconds.

Facts link. You can download the FBI's data at the bottom of the story.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... e-us-state

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:04 AM 
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Cant edit for some reason figure should be 323 not 232.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:08 AM 
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There are so many guns in peoples homes and on the street that I don't think a ban of any kind would work. What are they going to do, go on a house-by-house search?


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:34 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:35 AM 
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I mean, I'm not advocating it, but if a law was passed banning guns that would be the way to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:53 PM 
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The shooter in CT tried to buy a firearm weeks before the shooting and was denied. The guns he used he took from his mother who did not store them properly. Also, None of them were automatic weapons as it is already illegal for most people to own them. (So, the laws were already in place).

I am going to say this again. Passing more laws that restrict the ownership of firearms is like putting a bandage on your forehead to treat a concussion. Both may make you feel better but neither do anything to resolve the real problem.

The real problem isn't video games, music, movies, or guns.

One of the biggest issues we have is we are not teaching personal responsibility. People are not held accountable for their actions and this starts at a very young age. Parents are enabling this and we reinforce the "someone else is to blame" for everything that goes wrong.

Another issue I think we have is that we have been medicating a generation of kids for all sorts of mental issues and we really don't know the long term affect of taking those medications. If you are taking medication that alters the workings of the brain for many years, how is that going to change how the brain works?

One law that I would support is that for all firearm purchases (handgun, rifle, and shotgun) the person buying the firearm must successfully complete a firearm safety and protection course. The course includes safety, firing, maintenance, and storage. They cannot take possession of the firearm until they have certification of completion. Gun owners would have to take the course for each type of firearm they own. Possession of a non-antique firearm without certification results in the forfeiture of all owned firearms and a ban on the ability to purchase a firearm for a number of years.

We have to look at all of the causes of violence. Nearly all of the mass violence tragedies have been committed by a person with mental issues. The AZ shooting, the Aurora shooting, the CT shooting, the Virginia Tech shooting, hell going all the way back to the Austin Tower shootings, those people has some pretty major mental issues. We must do something to change how we are treating people with mental issues.

In short (I know too late) the NRA, the President, certain members of Congress are all in knee-jerk reaction phase. CHILDREN HAVE BEEN HARMED WE MUST DO SOMETHING NOW is their mantra. They don't care if it is the right or wrong thing. They won't be satisfied until they get some sort of bandage in place. Regardless if a bandage is needed or some other cure.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:01 PM 
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One of the biggest issues we have is we are not teaching personal responsibility. People are not held accountable for their actions and this starts at a very young age. Parents are enabling this and we reinforce the "someone else is to blame" for everything that goes wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:17 PM 
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randy wrote:
I mean, I'm not advocating it, but if a law was passed banning guns that would be the way to do it.


:happy3:

... ever heard of prohibition?

That, worked out real well too, didn't it?

Yeah... meth and cocaine are illegal, let;s ban guns and make them illegal too!too. Should work out.. really.. well.

:?

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:41 PM 
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Once again, I'm not advocating it. You quoted that. You asked how they would get all the guns back if they were to get all the guns back.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:05 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 PM 
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Quote:
One law that I would support is that for all firearm purchases (handgun, rifle, and shotgun) the person buying the firearm must successfully complete a firearm safety and protection course. The course includes safety, firing, maintenance, and storage. They cannot take possession of the firearm until they have certification of completion. Gun owners would have to take the course for each type of firearm they own. Possession of a non-antique firearm without certification results in the forfeiture of all owned firearms and a ban on the ability to purchase a firearm for a number of years.


Why would this work any better than any other law?

Every time someone talks about a gun law, the gun-heads just chant, "But criminals will just get all the guns they want anyway no matter what! You're just making it harder for good people to defend themselves!" So what makes your law special in that it's exempt from that?


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:13 PM 
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Guns are not the problem. Irresponsible gun ownership is. Start prosecuting owners that allow their guns to be abused.
LOCK UP your guns!


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:50 AM 
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Assault weapons being legal just blows the mind. Nobody uses an AR-15 for hunting, its purpose is to kill people, full stop.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:59 PM 
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The ratio of assault weapon owners to assault weapon deaths is better than the same for kitchen knives, automobiles, and baseball bats. They are inanimate objects. Punish the people who actually commit crimes, make the sentences a deterrent. There is no need to limit the freedom of people who own firearms based on the actions of criminals.

The AR-15 makes a good varmint rifle for coyotes and whatnot. It's also used in a popular marksmanship sport. But that's beside the point. The most concerning thing I see in these shootings is the apparent correlation between homicide and certain classes of psychiatric medication.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:21 PM 
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Adam Lanza was a law abiding citizen right up to the point he pulled the trigger.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:17 PM 
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Sarissa wrote:
The ratio of assault weapon owners to assault weapon deaths is better than the same for kitchen knives, automobiles, and baseball bats. They are inanimate objects. Punish the people who actually commit crimes, make the sentences a deterrent. There is no need to limit the freedom of people who own firearms based on the actions of criminals.

Yeah but can you kill 20 people with a kitchen knife or baseball bat before getting stoped by a group of people? And its hard to punish you when you suicide when the cops show up... Harder to suicide with a knife than with an assault riffle.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:06 PM 
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Finlainea wrote:
Yeah but can you kill 20 people with a kitchen knife or baseball bat before getting stoped by a group of people? And its hard to punish you when you suicide when the cops show up... Harder to suicide with a knife than with an assault riffle.


Yes, http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012 ... china?lite

people with mental defects are going to kill other people, that I believe is the issue. The current laws and bills that are going to be put in place are nothing more the lip service by the government.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:54 AM 
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And of the 22 kids injured in that knife attack in China 0 died.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:08 AM 
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Xantheus Diabolus wrote:
Meet Krby, the most level headed conservative ever.


I never thought I'd read that on here.

Thanks. Too bad that I can't run for office.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:17 AM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
Quote:
One law that I would support is that for all firearm purchases (handgun, rifle, and shotgun) the person buying the firearm must successfully complete a firearm safety and protection course. The course includes safety, firing, maintenance, and storage. They cannot take possession of the firearm until they have certification of completion. Gun owners would have to take the course for each type of firearm they own. Possession of a non-antique firearm without certification results in the forfeiture of all owned firearms and a ban on the ability to purchase a firearm for a number of years.


Why would this work any better than any other law?

Every time someone talks about a gun law, the gun-heads just chant, "But criminals will just get all the guns they want anyway no matter what! You're just making it harder for good people to defend themselves!" So what makes your law special in that it's exempt from that?


It would mean that at least people are trained how to use, store, and would be able to see if the person is competent to own and or use a firearm. The Sandy Hook incident happened in part because the shooter's mom did not have all of her weapons securely stored away (from what I read).

It would mean that the people owning guns would know what it means to shoot the weapon. I wonder how many people that own a firearm have never really fired it.

You can't legally drive a vehicle without a license and passing a competency exam. Car accidents kill thousands of people each year. If you show that you can't pass an eye exam, you can't renew your license. How should that be much different than owning a firearm?

Criminals will still have their guns. There is no law that will change that. We have to change how people think to change violence. Ending the drug war would be a start.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:25 AM 
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Dolalin wrote:
Assault weapons being legal just blows the mind. Nobody uses an AR-15 for hunting, its purpose is to kill people, full stop.



There is no performance difference between an AR-15 and a Ruger 10/22 .22 LR Autoload Rifle (link) The only difference is that the AR-15 is mean looking with molded plastic grips.

The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting. It is about defending one's self and property. Want a realistic example on why they are needed? Look at the shit going down on the US border with Mexico. If is a fucking war going on and there is little to no US Government help. The people that have homes near the border are under threat every day. When something happens the government is undermanned and too late to respond. The people have to be able to defend themselves. Now, we try to live in an equal justice for all country. If we allow the people that live on border states to have "assault weapons" to defend themselves, we must allow other citizens to have them as well. That is where the licensing and training of the item I proposed before comes in.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:58 PM 
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krby71 wrote:
there is little to no US Government help.


That is incorrect. The cartels are getting help with Fast and Furious.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:00 PM 
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Sometimes it comes down to, "Well if it's going to happen what will make it work."

I am against gun control but if it's going to happen it needs to be across the board. Assult weapon ban for cops and military also.


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:06 PM 
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Garborg wrote:
Sometimes it comes down to, "Well if it's going to happen what will make it work."

I am against gun control but if it's going to happen it needs to be across the board. Assult weapon ban for cops and military also.


A friend of mine at work (I like having conversations with him as we allow each other to expand some rather deep topics that many people would be uncomfortable talking about) made this comment:

"It seems that many of the same people that are arguing against increased gun control due to protection against government tyranny are the same people that are very supportive of giving the same government an expanded and more powerful military"


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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:53 PM 
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krby71 wrote:

A friend of mine at work (I like having conversations with him as we allow each other to expand some rather deep topics that many people would be uncomfortable talking about) made this comment:

"It seems that many of the same people that are arguing against increased gun control due to protection against government tyranny are the same people that are very supportive of giving the same government an expanded and more powerful military"


I would agree with this. I personalty would like to see the US go back to the days before WWII, I don't think US military needs\should as involved as it is now.

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 Post subject: Re: Days like Yesterday
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:26 PM 
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lol, I'm all for a US military and civilian population armed only with pocket knives.

Make it so!


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