It is currently Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:02 PM


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:34 PM 
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:14 AM
Posts: 670
All the political talk is on the supreme court upholding Obama Care and how justice Roberts changed his vote.

I've read about the Obama Care mandate, and I'm not seeing the bad.
- Kids stay on parents insurance until 25. I've known folks out of college without insurance until they land a first job. Can't reject sick kids, can't have lifetime maximums, can't have annual maximums, and if you're one of the 50 million without insurance, either buy some or pay up to $2k in a penalty, ie stop fucking using the emergency room as a fucking health care plan.

55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Why would conservatives be against a mandate for individual responsibility?
Is the description of an evolving health care system bringing out the intelligent design morons?

It seems to me the only folks who merit an opinion on this are the 15% uninsured and the millionares who will get a tax increase, and quite frankly, fuck them both.

So other than the GOP agenda against anything Obama, fox news talking points, and a whole lot of stupid people voting against their self interests, WHY THE FUCK IS IT SO BAD that we take half a step towards improving healthcare for most of America?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:46 PM 
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
Selling 50 Orc Belts!

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Posts: 650
Location: Texas
EQ1: Xantheus
WoW: Xantheus
I think people see the changes in maximums resulting in higher premiums which is one thing that will cost every one of us.

But...our healthcare costs are so high anyway due to uninsured motherfuckers getting care when its an emergency and the hospitals having to cover it. If that part of it is fixed, which more people having coverage should to an extent, overall healthcare costs should go down which may help offset the premium costs.

One other comment I've seen is people complaining that Obama wants more people to have coverage, but there won't be more doctors. Those dumb shits need to realize that most of these people aren't going without healthcare, they're just going without paying for it the same way we all do.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:08 AM 
10 Years? God im old!
10 Years? God im old!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:58 AM
Posts: 877
Here is what seems to be an unbiased opinion of ObamaCare.

http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/06/romney-obama-uphold-health-care-falsehoods

Quote:
Summary
With the U.S. Supreme Court upholding the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act on June 28, voters are guaranteed to continue hearing the same old false claims about the law from politicians. And President Barack Obama and presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney wasted little time in taking to the airwaves to rehash plenty we’ve fact-checked before. Obama even threw in a few new claims.

Obama reiterated his “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” refrain, despite the fact that at least a few million workers won’t keep their employer-sponsored plans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The president also exaggerated the benefits of the law, such as the number of young adults who were able to join their parents’ plans, thanks to the law, and the number of individuals who will receive rebates issued by insurance companies that didn’t spend enough premium dollars on health care.

Romney repeated a number of distortions, saying that the law would “cut Medicare” by $500 billion and that it “adds trillions to our deficits.” That’s a reduction in the future growth of Medicare spending over 10 years. And CBO says the law would reduce the deficit.

Romney said the law is a “job-killer.” But CBO says the law would have a “small” impact on jobs, mainly affecting the amount of labor workers choose to supply. Those getting subsidies, for instance, might work less hours since they’re paying less for health care.

Romney claimed the law “puts the federal government between you and your doctor.” The law would set minimum benefits packages, but medical services will not be government-run, nor does the law allow for rationing of care.


Link has full Analysis.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:15 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
The law is what it is. I'm not sure that a full repeal is really a good idea. My own problems with the law were the lies told about it to get it passed ("it's not a tax"), that we should have been focused more on the economy than political legacies, and that it adds another huge entitlement, which as a country we've shown a complete lack of ability to ever control, monitor or reform.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:21 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
I (generally) support the healthcare plan, but I'm not a huge fan of the individual mandate that basically forces people to buy something or face a penalty for not buying it.

If we'd gone to a single payer system, along with reforming tort law and pharma patents, I'd be much happier.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:30 AM 
10 Years? God im old!
10 Years? God im old!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:58 AM
Posts: 877
This was on Fark, linked to a Facebook page. The original link that this is from is below. The Quote I used from the Facebook page has a lot of stuff edited out but gets the main points across.

http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm <--Non edited version with more content.

Quote:
What exactly is ObamaCare and what did it change? "Explained like you're a 5-year-old."

Originally posted on Reddit by CaspianX2, this is a good, simple breakdown of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. ObamaCare, for anyone who isn't already up to speed or wants a simple overview. Also on Reddit at http://www.reddit.com/tb/vbkfm.

____

Okay, explained like you're a five year-old (well, okay, maybe a bit older), without too much oversimplification, and (hopefully) without sounding too biased:

What people call "Obamacare" is actually the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. However, people were calling it "Obamacare" before everyone even hammered out what it would be. It's a term mostly used by people who don't like the PPACA, and it's become popularized in part because PPACA is a really long and awkward name, even when you turn it into an acronym like that.

Anyway, the PPACA made a bunch of new rules regarding health care, with the purpose of making health care more affordable for everyone. Opponents of the PPACA, on the other hand, feel that the rules it makes take away too many freedoms and force people (both individuals and businesses) to do things they shouldn't have to.

So what does it do? Well, here is everything, in the order of when it goes into effect (because some of it happens later than other parts of it):

Already in effect:
It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices)
It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less)
It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )
It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )
It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them.
It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.
It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )
It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26.
No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19.
Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans.
People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend.
Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )
Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).
Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down.
New ways to stop fraud are created.
Medicare extends to smaller hospitals.
Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.
Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly.
A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: http://www.healthcare.gov/ ).
A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness.
A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers.
A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover.
Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms.

8/1/2012
Any health plans sold after this date must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge.

1/1/2013
If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners.

1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.
No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history.
If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it.
Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
Make it so more poor people can get Medicaid by making the low-income cut-off higher.
Small businesses get some tax credits for two years.
Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.
Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers.
Cut some Medicare spending
Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.
Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.
Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen.
A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.
A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.
A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.
The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.

1/1/2015
Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.

1/1/2017
If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers).

2018
All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).
A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).

2020
The elimination of the "Medicare gap"


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:31 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Quote:
If we'd gone to a single payer system, along with reforming tort law and pharma patents, I'd be much happier.
That's pretty much exactly what I would like to see.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:39 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
joxur wrote:
My own problems with the law were the lies told about it to get it passed ("it's not a tax"),


I love this argument. The President said buying insurance was not a tax, and the Supreme Court upholds it by saying the government has the power to tax. So obviously it's now a tax and the Tea Party needs to get up in arms about how Nobama raised taxes even though he said he wouldn't. The only thing resembling a tax here is the penalty you pay if you do not buy health insurance, just like the penalty you'd pay if you drove a car without car insurance. Buying insurance is not a tax, because you have the choice to pick the provider you want, and you receive coverage for it. A tax is money that is paid into a pool of other taxes in exchange for various services, which you have very little discretion over.

This is not a tax, it's a mandate to buy something with a penalty if you do not. Just because someone says it's similar to a tax doesn't make it an Obama Lied, America Died tax.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:03 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
randy wrote:
joxur wrote:
My own problems with the law were the lies told about it to get it passed ("it's not a tax"),


I love this argument. The President said buying insurance was not a tax, and the Supreme Court upholds it by saying the government has the power to tax. So obviously it's now a tax and the Tea Party needs to get up in arms about how Nobama raised taxes even though he said he wouldn't. The only thing resembling a tax here is the penalty you pay if you do not buy health insurance, just like the penalty you'd pay if you drove a car without car insurance. Buying insurance is not a tax, because you have the choice to pick the provider you want, and you receive coverage for it. A tax is money that is paid into a pool of other taxes in exchange for various services, which you have very little discretion over.

This is not a tax, it's a mandate to buy something with a penalty if you do not. Just because someone says it's similar to a tax doesn't make it an Obama Lied, America Died tax.


There's no federal mandate for car insurance last I checked - it's a state to state thing, which I think was the only argument that the tea party had against it. I don't *like* the idea that the federal government can force someone to buy something that they may not be able to afford and penalize people if they don't.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:21 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:22 AM
Posts: 3606
Location: DFW
EQ1: Ghaani (retired)
WoW: Gabbath (retired)
Rift: Gabbath (retired)
SWOR: Gabbath/Gh'anni (retired)
Quote:
Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them.


I think we should be going an entirely different direction. The ACA is a move AWAY from FSA/HSA's. The biggest problem with "employer provided" healthcare is that they are not portable. We need to move to the individual owned HSA with the ability for the employer to contribute to it. We NEED to move away from the insurance company/HMO/bureaucracy determining the healthcare to be provided based on a CYA mentality (doctor must run test a, b, c, and d to determine if a patient has x condition but c and d are really not needed but have to be run because of legal issues...)

I have gone on and on about how and why HSA's should be the building block of any healthcare system. We, the US, could have put in a plan the world could model as bringing the power back to the people and out of the corporation/government hands. It was Teddy Kennedy's HMO bill passed a few decades ago that was supposed to save healthcare and provide coverage to millions of people that did not have coverage. It is the HMO framework that put us in the mindset that "someone else is paying for it" and helped the costs to skyrocket. I don't see how healthcare costs will go down with ACA. There are many places in the bill that will cost companies more (insurance and otherwise) and that increased cost will not be eaten by those companies, they will be passed along to the consumer.

List of taxes in ACA:
Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following
    2014 1% AGI/$95(1 adult) $190 (2 adults) $285 3+ adults)
    2015 2% AGI/$325(1 adult) $650 (2 adults) $975 3+ adults)
    2016+ 2.5% AGI/$695(1 adult) $1390 (2 adults) $2085 3+ adults)

Employer Mandate Tax(Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000 (since the majority of companies in the US are 500 employees or less, this will impact most all small businesses)

Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single)

Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013)
Increase to 1.45%/2.35% (employee/employer) 3.8% self-employed for all income over $200,000 ($250,000 married) {Side note: DOMA is in effect here, if the Federal Government doesn't recognize SSM, a Same-Sex couple would have to pay the higher rate as a single person}

Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent

Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited).

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100

Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. (you really think this will drive costs down?)

Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.(you really think this will drive costs down?)

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers

“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:33 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:24 PM
Posts: 1918
Location: Location
EQ1: Binkee
WoW: Wilkins
Rift: Wilkins
LoL: ScrubLeague
Vanamar wrote:
I don't *like* the idea that the federal government can force someone to buy something that they may not be able to afford and penalize people if they don't.


I'm not a particular fan of that either, but if that's what it takes to make healthcare something that won't bankrupt most families, then fuck it let's roll.

Hopefully this is just the first step in modernizing this country, and the next healthcare bill will actually go as far as it needs to, not only far enough to get through.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:39 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Quote:
This is not a tax, it's a mandate to buy something with a penalty if you do not.
It's a tax. Both from a legal perspective and a common sense perspective.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:46 PM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
joxur wrote:
Quote:
This is not a tax, it's a mandate to buy something with a penalty if you do not.
It's a tax. Both from a legal perspective and a common sense perspective.


For once I agree with Joxur.

Of course, you could call it a "fine" too, and it would be just as appropriate.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:32 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:58 PM
Posts: 1464
To answer the OP, my issues with the ACA are:

~ The way it was passed
~ The exemptions/waivers for unions and others
~ The fact that we, as taxpayers, will be subsidizing the profits of an industry
~ The lack of much cost-control which was the whole reason given for the plan


Two other issues that I'm confused on:

Individuals who are currently uninsured but will not be eligible for the expanded medicaid but cannot afford to buy insurance without the subsidies promised will have to purchase insurance by 2014 or face the tax/penalty/whateveryouwannacallit will not get the subsidies until they recieve their tax refund in 2015. How is that fair? How can people the government themselves admit can't afford insurance face a penalty for not being able to afford insurance that year?

Small businesses face the same issue...

A thought:
I have often wondered during the debate over the ACA why, if some believed everyone having health INSURANCE was so important, none of them ever set up a charity whose purpose was to buy health insurance for those who can't afford it. There are many groups who help pay for or offer free health CARE but not a single one dedicated to buying health insurance... Maybe because everyone acknowledges that the for-profit industry we have now legislated into the fabric of our society is inefficient and overly costly?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:13 PM 
We Have Cookies!
We Have Cookies!

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:27 PM
Posts: 2450
Location: California
EQ1: Cakvala
WoW: Cakvala
LoL: Cakvala
Thank you all, this thread completely explained the Care act to me. hah :)

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:08 AM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
I don't *like* the idea that the federal government can force someone to buy something that they may not be able to afford and penalize people if they don't.


The federal government has been using taxes to encourage "desired" behaviour for a very, very long time.

For example, I pay a "tax" because I don't have children. The government could never mandate that each household should have children. That would be unconstitutional, but it can certainly provide a tax break to families with children, thereby leaving families like mine, that do not go out and have a kid, to pay a higher tax.

It's not an exact one to one comparison, obviously, but people seem really obsessed with the "tax" word in this debate, so it was worth pointing out that such penalty taxes exist throughout our system and no one thinks twice about them.

Sola has already covered the huge fallacy in this entire debate: That people without insurance do not use healthcare. Once you frame the debate by taking that fallacy out of the equation, there is no real debate about IF the change should happen and all that remains is HOW the change happens. Forward movement is the only option. There is no "go back/repeal" that results in fixing the problem.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:25 PM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:35 PM
Posts: 465
Didn't the Supreme Court hearing include a full day arguments determining if it was a tax or mandate? Where it was argued that if it was a tax the case would be toss as that falls under congress or a mandate where the court would continue with proceedings.

The Obama layers had to argue it was a mandate just so they could get the courts ruling.

I just thought this was weird.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:35 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Quote:
55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Where are the folks who pay for their own private insurance because their employers' policy isn't enough to protect their families? They don't seem to be part of the pie chart there.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:29 PM 
For the old school!
For the old school!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:57 PM
Posts: 1147
Tranthas wrote:
Quote:
55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Where are the folks who pay for their own private insurance because their employers' policy isn't enough to protect their families? They don't seem to be part of the pie chart there.


Because there likely THAT small of a segment of the population. As a consultant who has his own coverage (my wife's isn't much better recently, so easier to keep my current as while I'm currently out of shape, and oddly enough in near perfect health), I can't even begin to tell you how VERY fucking difficult it is to get private coverage.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:11 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5010
And many people are under-insured through their employers, and don't know it until disaster hits and destroys their financial future.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:18 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Elessar wrote:
Tranthas wrote:
Quote:
55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Where are the folks who pay for their own private insurance because their employers' policy isn't enough to protect their families? They don't seem to be part of the pie chart there.


Because there likely THAT small of a segment of the population. As a consultant who has his own coverage (my wife's isn't much better recently, so easier to keep my current as while I'm currently out of shape, and oddly enough in near perfect health), I can't even begin to tell you how VERY fucking difficult it is to get private coverage.


Weird. It took me about an hour, but all I wanted was major medical. I can handle doctor visits and routing medicines myself -- my insurance covers medical expenses that would wipe me out without it, like babies, broken limbs, and broken babies.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:24 PM 
For the old school!
For the old school!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:57 PM
Posts: 1147
Tranthas wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Tranthas wrote:
Quote:
55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Where are the folks who pay for their own private insurance because their employers' policy isn't enough to protect their families? They don't seem to be part of the pie chart there.


Because there likely THAT small of a segment of the population. As a consultant who has his own coverage (my wife's isn't much better recently, so easier to keep my current as while I'm currently out of shape, and oddly enough in near perfect health), I can't even begin to tell you how VERY fucking difficult it is to get private coverage.


Weird. It took me about an hour, but all I wanted was major medical. I can handle doctor visits and routing medicines myself -- my insurance covers medical expenses that would wipe me out without it, like babies, broken limbs, and broken babies.


With INSANE limits. The VAST VAST VAST majority of coverage out there sets a cap at usually no more than 1 million dollars. I'm not sure what your income level is, but at my level, which is fairly substantial, I STILL found exorbitantly high premiums for what I would consider adequate coverage that still manages to skirt the line on risk. No offense, but if it took you an hour, you didn't do your homework, or you should be thankful you found one of few remaining programs that offer decent coverage (at least to young white males ;P). Were I a betting man, I'd know where I'd put my money...


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:38 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:05 AM
Posts: 1460
Location: Seattle, WA
EQ1: Tranthas
WoW: Niali
Elessar wrote:
No offense, but if it took you an hour, you didn't do your homework, or you should be thankful you found one of few remaining programs that offer decent coverage (at least to young white males ;P). Were I a betting man, I'd know where I'd put my money...


Oh, no offense taken. :D

I'm not the 1%, but I'm in the top 10% of US incomes. I pay about $204/month for sufficient coverage that we could rebuild one of my children from scratch, if it should become necessary. There isn't a maximum on the policy, and our out-of-pocket annual max is $10k (deductible is $1850). I always carry "too much" insurance; my dad pointed out once that it's all house insurance. If you need it, and you don't have it, you'll lose your house.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:12 PM 
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
Selling 50 Orc Belts!

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Posts: 650
Location: Texas
EQ1: Xantheus
WoW: Xantheus
I pay 408 a month for an employer sponsored plan for me and the family and my employer pays 1188 a month. I have a very hard time believing you have great health care for 204 a month.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:23 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5010
me too, actually :(


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:43 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
Yeah... I pay amounts similar to Xan, and I'm pretty sure my employer is paying significantly more than that for our "top tier" insurance plan, and my coverage is nowhere near that.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:34 AM 
What does this button do?
What does this button do?

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:54 PM
Posts: 445
Rift: Bigteeth
Eve Online Handle: Bigteeth
Doesn't he work for microsoft? Those big companies have some nice benefits.

My company charges me $122/month for single, and it's just average insurance. Would be nice to have to pay $203 for a family. But family plan costs $430/month.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:38 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
he's heavily implying that he's paying for his own private insurance.

if his plan is through his employer, then he's being disingenuous.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:14 AM 
For the old school!
For the old school!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:57 PM
Posts: 1147
Tranthas wrote:
Quote:
55% of Americans get health insurance via work, 25-30% are on Medicare/caid, 15% are uninsured.
Where are the folks who pay for their own private insurance because their employers' policy isn't enough to protect their families? They don't seem to be part of the pie chart there.


I just scrolled back up through the thread here to see what wasn't adding up, Van, and I think this may be it. Tranthas, you're aware we're talking private PRIMARY coverage, and not supplemental coverage, right?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:53 AM 
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
Selling 50 Orc Belts!

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Posts: 650
Location: Texas
EQ1: Xantheus
WoW: Xantheus
I work for Chevron so I know all about the big companies and their benefit packages.

I actually have four options at work, depending on the level of coverage I want that vary between $31.00 a month and $578.00 a month. The company maintains their contribution at $1188.00 on all of the plans.

I could believe $204.00 a month for an employer sponsored plan with those kind of benefits, but not private insurance.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:24 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
I work for a small company, but we outsourced our HR to ADP, and they're the ones who are doing the benefit negotiations for us, which works to our advantage. My last company was also small, but did everything in house, and we got SHAFTED on insurance premiums and coverage.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:45 PM 
Camping Orc 1
Camping Orc 1

Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:35 PM
Posts: 465
The whole solution is back-ass-ward. It's like "fixing" the housing bubble by offering first time home buyers 8 grand to get into a mortgage that turned upside down in a year.

Insurance isn't the problem. It's the disgusting greedy practices of the health industry. Example, 83,000 dollars for 2 anti-venom shots.[url] http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false
[/url]
Set prices and pay for health care workers' college.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y