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 Post subject: Osama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:51 PM 
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It's been announced that Obama is about to deliver a speech at 10:30 that Osama has been killed during a U.S. operation. I'm having a difficult time believing that after all this time, that monster has been killed. Well, back to the news for me.

Leo: edited; c'mon, let's not get flagged by the FBI or anything because of a typo


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:58 PM 
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I believe the title of this thread may be misleading. Obama is alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:48 PM 
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I cant BELIEVE I fucked that up. Oh my god.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:51 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:26 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:55 PM 
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Fox News Headline: BREAKING: Obama Administration Kills Homeless Religious Man with Kidney Disease

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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:44 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:00 AM 
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It seems like someone in Pakistan's government would have had to know something wasn't right about that house.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:08 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:25 AM 
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Screw the politics, this is a win for everyone! I was watching the Phillies vs Mets game when the news broke and the stadium started chanting USA USA, pretty freaking awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 8:16 AM 
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I do have a big problem with the partying all throughout the night at Time Square and near the White House. First of all, most of the people the news networks showed were kids, they barely had any recollection of the 9/11 events, they were just looking for a reason to party. Second, (and this is what sticks with me) on 9/11 one of the events that I remember is the supporters of Osama dancing in the street when the towers came down. Why do we want to give them that much PR ammo?


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:40 AM 
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Krby, my reaction was similar to yours.

This is not a sporting event, and celebrating is distasteful and disgusting. What are the people who are cheering/chanting thinking? Relief and even satisfaction would be normal responses, but joy?

It would have been better had this been treated as any capture/killing of any criminal instead of giving Osama bin Laden such attention and importance that the President felt he needed to make the announcement himself.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:03 AM 
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Get over yourself. The fucker needed to die and people are happy (HAPPY, THRILLED, OVERCOME WITH JOY) that he is dead. Who cares if people were dancing in the streets? This guy was Public Enemy #1 for the fucking WORLD. He wasn't "any criminal," he was Osama bin Laden. Of course the President is going to announce it himself. George Bush would have announced it. Bill Clinton would have announced it. Ronald Reagan would have announced it.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:47 AM 
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Yeah. You guys are way overthinking things.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:49 AM 
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Neesha the Necro wrote:
Get over yourself. The fucker needed to die and people are happy (HAPPY, THRILLED, OVERCOME WITH JOY) that he is dead. Who cares if people were dancing in the streets? This guy was Public Enemy #1 for the fucking WORLD. He wasn't "any criminal," he was Osama bin Laden. Of course the President is going to announce it himself. George Bush would have announced it. Bill Clinton would have announced it. Ronald Reagan would have announced it.


See, this is where my head explodes. He WAS just "any criminal". Flying planes into buildings (while very well coordinated) was not a unique idea indicative of a criminal mastermind. You need to get over yourself. It's cost how many American and foreign civilian lives? This is a somber moment, not a happy one. We claim these people are uncivilized barbarians, and that we're coming to offer them enlightenment and free them from the terrorist regimes, but now they get to see us doing the exact same thing, and you wonder why there are folks willing to strap explosives to their backs in the name of this assclown's version of God.

It's no wonder this cycle of bullshit will continue when we continue to celebrate the violence of it all. We're not talking the end of WWII here, where it had an impact on a global scale (keep in mind they were celebrating the end of the violence, not the violence itself). The only global scale impact Osama had was the one we created for him after seriously overreacting to a terrible and unfortunate event.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:52 AM 
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Somber. Right.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:07 AM 
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Great, well, your fat ass can be OMGWTFHAPPY about winning the war on terror.

And my somber ass can remember that my friends died (ceased to be on this Earth) all on the pretext of chasing down this fucking assclown.

I'm not upset that he died (in fact, I'm an admitted sociopathic misanthrope most of the time). I'm upset at our reaction, and our lack of perspective about it all. That mindset is far more damaging than anything this idiot did, or could have done.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:12 AM 
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That "mindset" is far more damaging than killing however many thousands of people? People being genuinely happy about Osama's death and not being 100% versed on the potential ramifications and/or fallout is worse than his people actually murdering innocents? Hyperbole much?


Last edited by Neesha the Necro on Mon May 02, 2011 1:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.
fixed the same typo that I originally poked fun of


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:18 AM 
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He was nothing more than a common criminal? His only global impact was caused by us over reacting to 9-11? I compltely disagree with your perception of both his world stature and impact. This is a big deal, and symbolic to many people of more than just killing 1 man, it is a sign that the good guys can still win in this world. I think that is why there is so much joy.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:19 AM 
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Osama bin Laden is no different than Lindsay Lohan. They are both common criminals.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:24 AM 
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I just hope no one replaces him and we finally stop the shit in Iraq so we can move out.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:49 AM 
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Drajeck wrote:
He was nothing more than a common criminal? His only global impact was caused by us over reacting to 9-11? I compltely disagree with your perception of both his world stature and impact. This is a big deal, and symbolic to many people of more than just killing 1 man, it is a sign that the good guys can still win in this world. I think that is why there is so much joy.


I think my point about all of this is that there ARE NO GOOD GUYS here. There never were.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:59 AM 
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Neesha the Necro wrote:
Osama bin Laden is no different than Lindsay Lohan. They are both common criminals.


Yes, you're comparing the crimes, I see what you did there. It's like how Charles Manson was the most intelligent and prolific mastermind of the late 20th century.

Neesha the Necro wrote:
That "mindset" is far more damaging than killing however many thousands of people? People being genuinely happy about Obama's death and not being 100% versed on the potential ramifications and/or fallout is worse than his people actually murdering innocents? Hyperbole much?


More people are going to die falling down their stairs this year than died from terrorist attacks on US soil. I'm not upset about folks being "happy" about the event. I'm upset that this is ONLY thing they're going to learn from all of this. Over the course of the long term, there's going to be another BAD GUY that Uncle Sam has to blow his bugle and go slay. We're so focused on vengeance that we're not examining our foreign policy or the overall cost of kneejerk reaction and overhype of a single individual, who at the end of the day, was little more than a figurehead of an ideology. The impact of this on "global terror" is negligible. All we did was create a matyr that will inspire the next nutjob who wants to kill us (or bankrupt us, whichever comes first).


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:06 PM 
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Idk, I think the numerous/soldiers- friends that were killed in combat in Afghanistan at Tora Bora 2001, and more over the last 10 years, looking for this sob, 7 of which were spent fighting him and Al-Qaida, were pretty good guys, you can disagree on whatever y'all want, I danced a little jig just like my grandfather did when they got notification that Hitler was dead, for me as a soldier there is no difference, I did and will celebrate his death, publically, and joyously.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:24 PM 
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I didn't say anything about the president's announcement of OBL being dead. Like I said, I am glad that he is dead. I was in shock at first then smiled that he was gone. I just wish there was not dancing in the streets when it was announced (and those parties did start mighty quickly...)

What is the difference between us dancing in the streets when OBL was announced dead and the OBL supporters dancing in the streets when the towers fell? We are supposed to be better than those that commit terror.

When Hitler died that signaled the END of Nazi Germany. With OBL dead that is not the END of al Qaeda or terrorism against western countries


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:27 PM 
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Quote:
That "mindset" is far more damaging than killing however many thousands of people? People being genuinely happy about Obama's death and not being 100% versed on the potential ramifications and/or fallout is worse than his people actually murdering innocents? Hyperbole much?


Another typo... those damn b's and s's look so alike...



Glad he's gone, don't think we need to act like idiots about it but understand people just haven't had much to be happy about the past xx years, as a Country that can be united about something. That said.. it's sad to see that a death is the only thing that can bring us any unity, however short that unity lasts..


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:29 PM 
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Lol, damn typos.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:36 PM 
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Quote:
What is the difference between us dancing in the streets when OBL was announced dead and the OBL supporters dancing in the streets when the towers fell? We are supposed to be better than those that commit terror.
What is the difference between Osama Bin Laden and the people who were killed in the twin towers? Therein lies your answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:48 PM 
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I think what I'll take away from all this is that some people will just bitch about anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:56 PM 
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there was a very loud "obama is dead" party in my apartment complex late last night.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:27 PM 
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Sorry, I just don't think we should be celebrating anyone's death - Osama, Saddam, Stalin, Manson, McVeigh, Bundy, Gary Ridgway (Green River Killer), Castro (I know Manson and last two are not dead yet).

The people listed above are evil. The world is a better place with them not in it (or soon to be not in it). Prancing around in a "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" does nothing. Remember those that lost their lives at the hands of evil. Be relieved that others won't have to suffer at their hands. Make the world a better place so that evil is not able to be as successful as it has been.

I'll shut up now.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:30 PM 
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I agree to a point, but can I still say "Rot in hell, Osama" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:36 PM 
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Vanamar wrote:
I agree to a point, but can I still say "Rot in hell, Osama" ?


Yup, and I think everyone should. I know I am. But there's a difference between that, and outright revelry I suppose /shrug. Emotions are complex, and I understand this aspect of it. I'm just saying we cannot let that, and false patriotism, dominate the discussion or we're doomed to repeat it.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:49 PM 
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I can't wait for the Call of Duty DLC based on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:59 PM 
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Vanamar wrote:
I agree to a point, but can I still say "Rot in hell, Osama" ?


get in line...


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:10 PM 
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It's worth noting that Osama is/was a military target. There would be no cheering in the streets if we found an apartment complex that housed the families of Al Qaeda fighters and killed them all. There are many differences in cheering the 9-11 attack and cheering for this, but that is the one that strikes me right away.

I don't want to get bogged down in back and forth "we should be celebrating...no...we should be somber" (I believe everyone can feel however the hell they want about it!), but I did see the comparison to us cheering this vs the 9-11 cheering a few times above and though it was appropriate to point out how different the 2 correlating events were.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:41 PM 
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This reminds me of one of my favorite Onion articles ever.

Hijackers Surprised To Find Selves In Hell
http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijack ... hell,1445/

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"I was told that these Americans were enemies of the one true religion, and that Heaven would be my reward for my noble sacrifice," said Alomari, moments before his jaw was sheared away by faceless homunculi. "But now I am forced to suckle from the 16 poisoned leathern teats of Gophahmet, Whore of Betrayal, until I burst from an unwholesome engorgement of curdled bile. This must be some sort of terrible mistake."


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:59 PM 
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yes, Jox's comment "What is the difference between Osama Bin Laden and the people who were killed in the twin towers?" really made me think.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:52 PM 
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krby71 wrote:
yes, Jox's comment "What is the difference between Osama Bin Laden and the people who were killed in the twin towers?" really made me think.


I can tell you one thing that wasn't different: In both cases, the only solution considered was "We need to kill it/them/evil." with little regard to policies of minimization (without moderate Muslim vilipendation) on our end, and a lack of understanding American intent in the Middle East.

It was our arrogance in using these people as a tool to fight the Soviet occupation (with little regard to health of the populace). It was Bin Laden's arrogance to believe that after removing the Soviets that it was Allah's will that he purge his holy land of all invaders. It was his arrogance that made him believe that the destruction visited upon his area of the world by the "Crusaders, Colonialists and Communists" justified his jihad with an eye for an eye response on our soil and others.

When Khobar Towers was attacked, I lost two HC-130 crew I knew personally. On one occasion, one of these individuals helped me avoid what would have likely been a fatal mistake during a training drop. I wanted more than nothing else to see these individual avenged for such senseless violence. As a advanced further in my career, and saw what generations of hate and misunderstanding can do to a culture, and the associated deaths, I realized that nothing could bring these men back. And nothing could make me feel better about their deaths.

The cycle of violence and lack of understanding in the name of nationalism or religion is one of the scariest things in existence. There is no weapon ever conceived in all of mankind's history that can compare to a man's arrogance that his is righteous and his resolve to wield that power accordingly. Do I feel bad that he's dead? Not in the least. Do I feel righteous? Not in the least. If we put this level of effort and media attention into working to understand other cultures, and learning to deal with them from a relative perspective (we don't need to agree with, or condone, them) we'd be far better protected today. Instead, I think we'll see another month of circle jerk about how we cut the head off of those crazy Islamist Arab fuckhead barbarians...until the next guy comes along (Mullah Omar maybe?).


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:59 PM 
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Fox news needs to be removed from Television... Though they probably did that purposely.

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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:38 PM 
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CakvalaSC wrote:
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Fox news needs to be removed from Television... Though they probably did that purposely.


I would say not likely on purpose (IF at all PHOTO SHOP) but, FOX, CNN and MSNBC should all be removed from the air, but then that would be over governing and I am totally against that.

The biggest thing I think about this is how wrong the Obama administration and the Demarcates for the most part were about the usefulness of GITMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:00 PM 
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That's a local affiliate, not "fox news" as you know it. Educate yourselves before making references to the evil media.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:23 PM 
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Devil wrote:
CakvalaSC wrote:
Kitiari wrote:
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Fox news needs to be removed from Television... Though they probably did that purposely.


I would say not likely on purpose (IF at all PHOTO SHOP) but, FOX, CNN and MSNBC should all be removed from the air, but then that would be over governing and I am totally against that.

The biggest thing I think about this is how wrong the Obama administration and the Demarcates for the most part were about the usefulness of GITMO.


Look at how stupid you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:42 PM 
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Osama was more of a figurehead than a leader. This will certainly have an effect on Al Qaida but it's not their end.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:44 PM 
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'I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King Jr.



We should all aspire to that as human beings, but honestly....I have a hard time not feeling glad he's dead myself. Or as someone else said more eloquently:

Quote:
“I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” --Mark Twain



That being said? I don't think it is a cause for celebration of "victory". 10 years, 2.5 wars, 900,000+ deaths, and $1,000,000,000,000+ dollars later...that's a hell of a price to have paid to be happy about the death of one man. I am glad it did happen finally and he didn't just die of old age, though.

I dunno. It is a definitely a mixed bag of emotions for me personally.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:24 AM 
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http://www.todaysseniorsnetwork.com/tim ... 20wwII.jpg human nature dude...


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:51 AM 
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The simplicity of context.


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 Post subject: Re: Obama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:39 AM 
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Look at how stupid you are.


Just gonna quote this because it applies to like everyone.

This is a nice-ish victory but it's at least five years late and really not much of a victory anyway. No one is any safer because of this, the terrorists aren't so disorganized now that they shut up shop. If we'd have been able to get him on September 12, that would have been a big victory. Now it's just a thing that happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:49 AM 
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Just a few quick thoughts...

This is the kind of victory that has the potential to make a huge impact. Killing bin Laden may or may not be a huge win of its own (in terms of the impact to Al Qaeda), but the sentiment felt in America about the action could have profound impact and the loads of intelligence recovered from the scene could have serious implications for the terrorist organization and any future plots.

There's often a fine line between what can be considered decorous and what can't. Yes, bin Laden was a military target (and lots of other things) and Americans should feel justified, and yeah, maybe even glad about his death. But at some point, celebrating a person's death marginalizes the seriousness of the killing, the lives affected by that person, and even, perhaps, killing in general. Of course, where that point is often differs for each of us -- depending especially on how personally you were impacted by his actions.

Personally, I don't feel at all celebratory about it. Sure, I'm glad he's dead, more for my country's wellbeing than my own, but more than anything else, I'm just shocked. After almost 10 years, I really didn't expect it'd ever happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:44 AM 
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We should really be questioning just how much of an ally Pakistan truly is, and why they get any money at all from us.

Looking back; Ramzi Yousef (Islamabad, '95) , Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (Rawalpindi, '03), Mushin Musa Matwalli Atwah (Karachi, '06), Fahid Mohammed Ali Msalam (Northern border region, '09), Sheikh Ahmed Salem Swedan (Northern border region, '09), Ahmed Mohammed Hamed Ali (Karachi, '10) and now Osama Bin Laden (Abbottabad, '11), were all caught or killed in Pakistan.

That's just a list of the most notable names.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:00 AM 
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rugen wrote:
Quote:
'I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King Jr.


he didn't say that.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:35 AM 
The Sleeper
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Nor did Twain make the quote about obituaries. That was Clarence Darrow. /shrug


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:45 AM 
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randy wrote:
rugen wrote:
Quote:
'I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King Jr.


he didn't say that.


Randy, how do you know he did not say that? I am not saying he did I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:51 AM 
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http://mashable.com/2011/05/03/altered-mlk-quote/


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:10 PM 
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and yet, both quotes retain exactly what I was talking about. So they are still relevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:14 PM 
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And it seems the new trend to try and discredit this is: "Obama didn't kill Osama, some soldier Obama didn't wan to pay did!!!" thanks to a forward from my mother-in-law.

/eyeroll

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:21 AM 
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I'm not shedding any tears about Obama's death, but the outright rejoicing seems a little... hasty. Then again, I'm probably overly skeptical when I see thousands of lemmings following the same beat.

He got what he deserved, no question. I'd have much preferred he stand trial, regardless of the time/monetary cost, if for no other reason than as a display that we offered him what he did not offer thousands - a truer sense of justice than most offered in ages past, and even if imperfect the defendant might be offered some level of fairness and objectiveness.

On the other note, I'd love to see more good news about Obama, but it's just short-sighted for anyone to suggest that he had any kind of claim on the actions that brought Osama down. This was no doubt an intelligence-gathering operation that spanned years to bring it to this finality. From the initial reports I've had time to read, the SEAL team performed admirably and each military division worked hand in hand to coordinate things incredibly and effectively. Obama didn't have anything to do with that. He pushed a button that said "go" after everyone did the gruntwork, that's it. The same is true for any suggestion that Bush shared credit as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:26 AM 
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Quote:
Obama didn't have anything to do with that.


No, he just made it a priority to find Osama and bring him down. Unlike Bush who made it a priority to....go to Iraq.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:36 AM 
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Also, it should be noted, my beef isn't with "Obama's victory", because I agree it is an "american" victory, not his.... but with the "Obama didn't want to pay the soldiers that killed Osama". It's like the conservative movement has given up even trying to sound like reality anymore. Which is only about half as infuriating as the fact people lap that shit up.

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 Post subject: Re: Osama dead
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:49 AM 
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Besides which they're sailors not soldiers.


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