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Should we be funding Green energy as much as we do?
YES! And we should be adding even MORE! 50%  50%  [ 8 ]
YES, we are doing just enough. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No, we need to reduce the amount we are giving to Green Energy. 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
No, Green energy should be self sustaining on its own merits. 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 16
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:47 PM 
10 Years? God im old!
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The thought of green energy is a nice one. BUT, at what cost?

Right now, Government subsidies are about the only reason that any Green energy company is able to stay in business right now.

That means, if your buddy next door is going Green, your tax dollars are helping him pay for it.

Quote:
(From):
Why green energy still needs Uncle Sam's help

Sun Run's growth spurt is in large part due to the subsidies it enjoys from the federal government. Fenster expects his customers to more than double next year.

Generally, tax breaks mean the federal government absorbs about 30% of the costs for a solar project. That's fairly standard across the wind and solar industry. Fenster knows just where his business, and others like it, would be if those subsidies disappeared.

"No solar business would survive," he said. "I can't imagine you'd find much new wind construction either."


What happens when the money runs out?

Quote:
(From):
Loss Of Solar Jobs Has Mass. Rethinking State Aid

Hundreds of employees of a solar panel factory in Massachusetts are looking for new jobs after the company announced that it's moving the plant to China.

---------------------------
A Lack Of Federal Support

While many have directed their anger at Massachusetts for giving too generously to Evergreen, Burroughs says the problem may be that the manufacturer didn't get enough assistance at the federal level.

"I like the idea of the state supporting an industry such as this," he says. "But maybe there needs to be more federal support to help a company be successful."


The US is in Debt. We are pretty much broke, so, why do we spend so much money on inefficient programs? Ethanol is another example. It costs so much more than gas to produce, and our taxes provide the subsidies to the farmers to make the corn for it, so, you are actually paying even more for that gas at the pump than the stated price.

Quote:
(From):
Ethanol Fuel from Corn Faulted as ‘Unsustainable Subsidized Food Burning’

David Pimental, a leading Cornell University agricultural expert, has calculated that powering the average U.S. automobile for one year on ethanol (blended with gasoline) derived from corn would require 11 acres of farmland, the same space needed to grow a year's supply of food for seven people. Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion into ethanol, 131,000 BTUs are needed to make one gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 BTUS. Thus, 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in it. Every time you make one gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTUs.


The Government is also has enacted the Cap and Trade Program to "Punnish" the dirty energy producers. Guess who eats the cost? Us. The only way to make the GREEN look better is to make it so expensive with fines and taxes to produce energy normally that the difference in cost is reduced. Some think Global Warming and Cap and Trade is a scam.

Quote:
(From):
Cap-and-Trade: A Scam Based on a Scam

Cap-and-Trade Act: Constitute the greatest tax on energy use in the history of the nation
If the Cap-and-Trade Act is passed at the urging of the Obama administration, it will constitute the greatest tax on energy use in the history of the nation and it will energize exchanges, such as the one in Chicago, set up to buy and sell the carbon credits.

As reported by Investor’s Business Daily on May 7, “The carbon trading system being pushed here has spawned crime and fraud across the pond. Cap-and-Trade is not about saving the planet. It’s about money and power, and absolute power corrupting absolutely.”


These techs are not presently cost effective on their own.

So, what do you think? Are we paying too much for energy and to be GREEN?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:21 PM 
10 Years? God im old!
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:28 PM 
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Without government funding, no research would be going into alternative fuels or energy sources to begin with.

Then again, the most "green" energy source out there is nuclear, but no one will let us build new power plants!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:14 AM 
Derakor the Vindicator
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:26 PM
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If everyone demanded coal was self sustaining when it was just starting we wouldn't have that either. Coal fired power plants didn't just spring from the ground when everyone realized it burned really well. Research and development of new sources of energy takes time and most importantly money.

You seem to just be complaining about this because they cost money now instead of costing money before you paid any taxes.

You post something complaining about subsidies to corn growers because ethanol is worthless (and it is) but these subsidies aren't actually for ethanol. The subsidies were largely created to keep farmers in business when there would be no market for their usual crops. They are also designed to generate votes for politicians in farming communities. Now as much as I would love for them to stop subsidizing ethanol it won't happen as long as the farm owners keep voting and the larger farming corporations continue to lobby for the payments. I never thought the subsidy payments were necessary for my family (we own two farms in Illinois, and make a donation each year in the amount of the subsidy to a local food bank) since we don't actually live on the farm or do any of the work there.

Cap and trade is something that needs to be looked at, but because of the general inbred nature of American politicians and the population in general we have no choice but to push cap and trade instead of a carbon tax like we should be using. People see to shit out their eyeballs every time someone mentions a new tax, yet a bipartisan bill designed to be 100 percent revenue neutral never even made it out of committee last year solely because it was called a tax. It was really quite ingenious, any money received would be repaid in a reduction on other taxes (payroll, state sales tax, etc). This tax could then be adjusted to move the economy to the optimal level of pollution.

Currently the only real green solution for power would be nuclear, but people refuse to actually look at it without the stigma of a possible meltdown and nuclear waste. It would also be great if cars ran in hydrogen, but we don't really have a system to generate it at a reasonable rate yet, but we might in the next 10-15 years.

Also just as a side note .. Yes the US does have foreign debt, but we are not even remotely close to broke, unless you truly believe we are just going to stop producing any goods and services just to spite the rest of the world.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:21 AM 
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