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How should we Tax?
The way it is now WITH the tax cuts is good. 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Get rid of the Tax cuts for everyone. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Get rid of the Tax Cuts for the Rich. 30%  30%  [ 7 ]
More Tax Cuts! The Government needs to stop spending money like a drunken sailor. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
We should incorporate a Flat Tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. 48%  48%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 23
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 Post subject: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:11 PM 
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You hear a lot of talk about how they want the Rich to pay Higher Taxes for what they earn, but, the do not mention the numbers.

Obama seems to think that the "RICH" should be punished for being rich, and charged more.

The listed Tax Brackets go from 10% to 35% of a persons income. The more you make the more you pay. I am at the lower end of the spectrum.

What do you think? Should we have a FLAT Tax? OR, should there be a higher percentage for the very well off?


Here is how the Tax Brackets are set up.

Federal Tax Brackets


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:08 PM 
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Of those choices, I would pick a flat tax. I think we should each pay the same percentage of our income as the next guy. Some people make more, some people make less, but everyone would be taxed at the same rate of what they earn. You don't walk into a store and see some rich guy pay 33% sales tax while the poor guy next to him pays 18% sales tax. The same standardized tax percentage should apply to income as it does sales. Rich people should not be penalized for working their ass off to be successful...just as poor people should not benefit from not applying themselves more to earn more. (I am over-simplifying this...don't be a snarky asshole and start whining that people don't always have control over their financial earnings.) Just set the rate at a level that allows us to cover our federal debts for the year...maybe a point higher to help get us out of debt, and let's call it a day.

On the other hand, millions of people living in the States do not pay ANY income tax. Since we are a nation of consumers, I say we totally get rid of income tax and simply implement a Value-Added Tax like many European countries do. Granted, their tax rate hovers around 20%, I think we could look at our needs to cover our federal budget (and a little extra to help buy our way out of foreign-held debt) and set it at a rate to eventually make it into the black.

I like VAT a lot more than flat-tax because there are so many dishonest people in America that do not help cover the bills that the rest of us pay by being honest. We all drive on the same roads, it’s just that some of us have the honor to pay our income tax to pay for those roads while some do not. With a VAT tax, everyone that lives in America and buys goods or services will be forced to pay taxes based on what they consume, so nobody escapes…neither legal and illegal citizens that live and work here can avoid buying goods and services to exist in this country.

With a VAT system, we should also do away with the IRS, at least removing them from having oversight of personal income and the means to seize personal assets from the average citizen. Also, we should tax the living shit out of foreign goods for a bit of protectionism. We need to bring our jobs back to our country instead of all this bullshit outsourcing. Anything that is imported into America should have an additional 20-40% tax on top of the VAT tax to 1) help dissuade people from buying foreign-made goods over American made goods, 2) increase jobs in America, 3) to re-establish some fucking pride in a nation that was built on industrial know-how. We invented the fucking car…we never should have lost that lead in the industry!

I would also do away with luxury tax and any tax involving death or inheritance. Taxes are already paid on things people leave to others. People should not be double taxed because they were left something where taxes were already paid for.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:13 AM 
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I think the biggest stumbling block for the flat tax is that the basic cost of living is a relative constant, and that constant is a larger percentage of income for an individual making minimum wage vs. someone making 250 k a year.

I don't know much about VAT tax, but it sounds interesting. I'll have to read up on it some more.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:49 AM 
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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:35 AM 
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For the record, germany invented the first car (as we know it today).

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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:01 PM 
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Actually, France developed a steam-powered car in the 1700s before Benz ever made a car. But I digress and I shall rephrase...

Henry Ford's Model T revolutionized assembly line production, American industry, and transportation…we never should have lost the lead in production, manufacturing, and industry!

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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:15 AM 
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Quote:
You don't walk into a store and see some rich guy pay 33% sales tax while the poor guy next to him pays 18% sales tax.


Actually, you sort of do. And it's the other way around in a manner of sorts, the poor guy is paying a MUCH higher percentage of income in sales tax, government fees, basic costs of living, etc. Which is all related to:

Quote:
I think the biggest stumbling block for the flat tax is that the basic cost of living is a relative constant, and that constant is a larger percentage of income for an individual making minimum wage vs. someone making 250 k a year.


You know, there's a lot of talk and whining about taxes in this nation right now. I hear a lot of people talk about how other nations don't pay as much in taxes so why do we. But frankly - and some people might remember we had this discussion recently with real numbers - we don't pay nearly as much in taxes as the whiny media would have you believe. And all that infrastructure you're used to? Yeah, if you want to pay those third world style taxes, then feel free to get used to that kind of infrastructure.

Yes, there's waste in government. Yes, there's corruption. Yes, not all of our tax money is spent in the most efficient manner. That's pretty much unavoidable and the nature of the beast. Thinking that we're going to eliminate all waste from government is like thinking that you can get pure Communism to work. It's great on paper but won't fly right in practice. Besides, we're really not as bad about it as some people make us out to be.

In the end, our standard of living in this nation is - on average - absolutely amazing. We're spoiled rotten little brats most of the time, there's really no denying it, and somehow the people who are the best off are the ones doing the most crying.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:53 PM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
We're spoiled rotten little brats most of the time, there's really no denying it, and somehow the people who are the best off are the ones doing the most crying.


Indeed. Primarily because the definition of "rich" doesn't really seem to change significantly. Folks between 200k-550k I'd say are what I'll refer to as the "honest consumers". These are the folks who contribute a portion of income that they'll likely never see even an equal parity of benefit from, but not so obscenely rich that loopholes and offshoring provide any real savings/value. I've pointed before on these boards that until recently, I was unable to get any real quality health insurance, and my spouse could get NONE. I'm more likely to be a responsible homebuyer, but I get no credit or incentive for doing so, but the jackass making far less gets credit for spending far more than he should be. The list goes on.

Don't assume that the folks crying are spoiled - we're frustrated, and we should be. I find myself having to work a bit harder in order to recover the penalties incurred for...working harder (Yes, for all you teachers, civil servants, etc, out there, I agree that you're underpaid and I know you work hard, but you get my point.).


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:17 PM 
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I'm more likely to be a responsible homebuyer, but I get no credit or incentive for doing so


That pissed me off when I bought my first home. heh. Everyone told me I'd have the tax credit. Literally everyone. Banjker, realtor, etc. I'm not really a tax guy, so I believed them and planned around it. Stupid move. No one told me that it had a cut off for earnings. :p

Fortunately, as I've said in another thread, being where I am makes it easier to recover from such missteps and bumps in th eroad than it would have been at another time in my life, but it was still irritating as shit at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:35 PM 
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Quote:
What will the big new tax law mean for you?

WASHINGTON (AP) - It's the most significant new tax law in a decade, but what does it mean for you? Big savings for millions of taxpayers, more if you have young children or attend college, a lot more if you're wealthy.

The package, signed Friday by President Barack Obama, will save taxpayers, on average, about $3,000 next year.

But many families will be able to save much more by taking advantage of tax breaks for being married, having children, paying for child care, going to college or investing in securities. There are even tax breaks for paying local sales taxes and using mass transit, and a new Social Security tax cut for nearly every worker who earns a wage.

Most of the tax cuts have been around since early in the decade. The new law will prevent them from expiring Jan. 1. Others are new, such as the decrease in the Social Security payroll tax. Altogether, they provide a thick menu of opportunities for families at every income level.

"The tax code wants to encourage people to invest in their homes, invest in their education, invest in their retirement, and you have to know about all of these in order to take advantage of it," said Kathy Pickering, executive director of The Tax Institute at H&R Block.

The law extends most of the tax cuts for two years, including lower rates for the rich, the middle class and the working poor, a $1,000-per-child tax credit, tax breaks for college students and lower taxes on capital gains and dividends. A new one-year tax cut will reduce most workers' Social Security payroll taxes by nearly a third next year, from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent.

A mishmash of other tax cuts will be extended through next year. They include deductions for student loans and local sales taxes, and a tax break for using mass transit. The alternative minimum tax will be patched, sparing more than 20 million middle-income families from increases averaging $3,900 in 2010 and 2011.

The $858 billion package also includes $57 billion in renewed jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed.

"I am absolutely convinced that this tax cut plan, while not perfect, will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector," Obama has said. "It will help lift up middle-class families, who will no longer need to worry about a New Year's Day tax hike. ... It includes tax cuts to make college more affordable, help parents provide for their children, and help businesses, large and small, expand and hire."

At the request of The Associated Press, The Tax Institute at H&R Block developed detailed estimates for how the new law will affect families at various income levels next year:

-A single taxpayer making $50,000 a year who rents an apartment and pays $3,500 in college tuition and fees would save $2,280 in income taxes and $1,000 in Social Security taxes - a total of $3,280.

-A married couple with two young children, some modest investments and combined wages of $100,000, would save $6,256 in income taxes and $2,000 in Social Security taxes - a total of more than $8,200.

Income taxes would be lower because of the lower rates, a $1,000 per child tax credit and a $1,200 tax credit for child care expenses. The couple earns $2,000 in dividends but it would be tax-free at their income level. Wealthier investors would pay a top tax rate of 15 percent on dividends. The couple would also be spared from paying the alternative minimum tax, and would pay lower Social Security payroll taxes.

-A married couple with a child in high school and another in college, combined wages of $170,000 and larger investments would save nearly $7,800 in income taxes and $3,400 in Social Security taxes - a combined savings of nearly $11,200.

Income taxes would be lower because of the lower rates and more generous deductions for state and local income taxes, property taxes, mortgage interest and charitable donations.

Assuming the couple earned $4,000 in qualified dividends and $5,000 in capital gains, that income would be taxed at 15 percent, instead of the higher rates that would have taken effect without the new law.

At their income level, the couple wouldn't qualify for the child tax credit and would get only $125 from the education tax credit. However, they would save more than $3,600 because they would be largely spared from the AMT.

"One thing generally about the higher income taxpayers is that even though they have a lot of opportunities, they also phase out of a lot of benefits that are designed for lower- to middle-income taxpayers," said Gil Charney, principal tax analyst at The Tax Institute at H&R Block.



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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:52 PM 
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Most of the tax cuts have been around since early in the decade. The new law will prevent them from expiring Jan. 1.

These are not new tax cuts, but the continuation of what we already have


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 Post subject: Re: Tax Brackets.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:44 PM 
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I think that after several years have passed, it is disingenuous to continue to refer to current tax rates as tax cuts. At that point they are the current tax structure that budgets and revenue projections are based on.

Of the package, I really don't like the payroll tax holiday. It is going to become the new norm, since the political will to allow FICA to go back up 2% won't be there.

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