It is currently Thu Apr 25, 2024 4:11 AM


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 292 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:24 PM 
Bored Guru
Bored Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 PM
Posts: 934
EQ1: Worthy
WoW: Worthy
This seems to be in very poor taste.

Quote:
13-Story Mosque To Be Built Near World Trade Center Site

NEW YORK � In a building damaged by debris from the Sept. 11 airliners that brought down the World Trade Center and soon to become a 13-story mosque, some see the bridging of a cultural divide and an opportunity to serve a burgeoning, peaceful religious population. Others see a painful reminder of the religious extremism that killed their loved ones.

Two Muslim organizations have partnered to open the mosque and cultural center in lower Manhattan, saying the $100 million project will create a venue for mainstream Islam and a counterbalance to radicalism. It earned a key endorsement this week from influential community leaders.

But some 9/11 victims' families said they were angered that it would be built so close to where their relatives died.

"I don't like it," said Evelyn Pettigano, who lost a sister in the attacks, during a phone interview on Thursday. "I'm not prejudiced. ... It's too close to the area where our family members were murdered."

But the growing number of congregants at the only other nearby mosque, open only one day a week, created a need for an additional space for Muslim prayer in the neighborhood, said Daisy Khan, the executive director of the American Society for Muslim Advancement and a board member of the Cordoba Initiative, the two organizations sponsoring the project.

The history associated with the building, a former Burlington Coat Factory store that closed after being damaged on 9/11, was a reason to pick it for the project, she said.

"We want to create a platform by which the voices of the mainstream and silent majority of Muslims will be amplified. A center of this scale and magnitude will do that," Khan said. "We feel it's an obligation as Muslims and Americans to be part of the rebuilding of downtown Manhattan."

The organizations publicly unveiled the preliminary plan for the project, known as the Cordoba House, on Wednesday at a meeting of the finance committee of the local community board, which is composed of influential stakeholders in lower Manhattan. While the agency has no authority over what can be developed at the site, their support is viewed as key to gaining acceptance from residents.

Edward "Ro" Sheffe, the chairman of the financial district committee for Community Board 1, said the 15 members passed a resolution of support for the project, though he emphasized that the board had no authority to approve or disapprove of a house of worship, per se. Indeed, he said the developers could do whatever they wanted with the building, which they own.

"They came to tell us what they had in mind and see what we felt about it," he said. "The understanding we came away with was that this was an ongoing dialogue."

The members' only concerns had to do with the aesthetics of the building, and whether it would fit with the surrounding architecture, he said. The overall feeling was one of goodwill because the financial district, a fast-growing residential area, lacks for amenities such as community centers.

"We very much need residential amenities for the people who live here," he said.

But the simple idea of a mosque so near ground zero angered those whose family members were killed by adherents to radical Islam.

"I think it's despicable, and I think it's atrocious that anyone would even consider allowing them to build a mosque near the World Trade Center," said Rosemary Cain, whose son, George Cain, a firefighter, died on Sept. 11.

Anita LaFond Korsonsky, a Livingston, N.J., woman who lost her sister, also said she had misgivings.

"I presume that these people aren't going to be gathering there to plan another attack," she said.

The Muslim organizations plan to announce the groundbreaking later this year, possibly to coincide with the 10th anniversary of the attacks, Khan said. It could take up to three years to build the Cordoba House; the groups currently have no funds for the project but plan to start raising money, she said.

A Friday prayer service has been held since September at the building, she said.

Marvin Bethea, a paramedic who survived the toxic collapse of the twin towers and suffers from a range of afflictions, including post-traumatic stress disorder and asthma, said he supports the mosque.

"Not all Muslims are terrorists," Bethea said. "Muslims died on 9/11, as well. This is a tremendous gesture to show that we're not all full of hatred and bigotry."


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:31 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5011
I'm sorry, but I completely fail to see why this would be in "poor taste" to any reasonable person. Not all Muslims are terrorists.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:40 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Nope. Not in poor taste at all.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:03 PM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
I don't see a single reason why it is in poor taste. Should there be a "no new churches" zone around the Oklahoma City federal building?

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:30 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Quote:
Should there be a "no new churches" zone around the Oklahoma City federal building?
Man, someone's not wasting any time!


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:40 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
He's right, though.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 4:02 PM 
Blackburrow Lover!
Blackburrow Lover!

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Posts: 634
Location: Crestview, FL
EQ1: Arunhah
WoW: Scathain
Rift: Arunhah
EQ2: Scathian
Few people would complain if it were any other mainstream religion's church, so I don't see a reason why any rational person would be offended by a mosque.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:41 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:58 PM
Posts: 1464
I don't see this as in poor taste at all. Perhaps it will serve as a reminder to those that visit the Memorial that Muslim does not equal terrorist. Maybe a few will even be encouraged to walk into the Mosque and be educated about Islam as it is practiced by most Muslims. I can hope, right?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:59 AM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
I see this as a double failure. First, it is a failure that many Americans see a mosque as a harbor of the enemy instead of how they would see a church or synagogue. Secondly, this is further evidence of the failure top Islamic leaders have had in distancing themselves from terrorist acts. Whether you believe it is thier responsibility or not, it is having a negative effect on the way many people in the world (justly or not) view muslims as many believe they are not condeming the actions as vigilantly as warranted.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:00 AM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
Condeming the actions and message of all Islamic terrorists that is, not just 9-11.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:21 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:43 PM
Posts: 1323
I definitely have mixed feelings.

Imagine a there is an African American Unity Center surrounded by a small town and a bunch of Baptist radicals - in the name of all Baptists - burn down the center, murder all 3000 residence of the town, and damage multiple houses.

10 years later, a Baptist church is built near the site, where one of the burned down houses was.

I dunno... seems in poor taste to me.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:18 AM 
Blackburrow Lover!
Blackburrow Lover!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:35 PM
Posts: 630
EQ1: Traxor
WoW: Zairux
EQ2: Traxor
SWOR: Darman
Eve Online Handle: Traxil
I'm sure this would piss me off to no end had I known one of the many victims of 9/11. Make a statue of Bin Laden getting ass-rammed by a goat, rather than a damn tolerance shrine.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:01 AM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5011
I'm sorry Orme, but I'm imagining your situation, and I just don't see the problem. I guess I realize that not all Baptists are like those crazy Baptists of which you speak.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:58 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Quote:
First, it is a failure that many Americans see a mosque as a harbor of the enemy instead of how they would see a church or synagogue.


Part of the problem there is how the media portrays them and how we think about them.

When a man of middle-eastern descent does something bad, you hear "A Muslim man was accused today...."

But when a regular white guy here does something bad, you don't hear, "A christian man was accused today..."

We americans basically just clump them all together as one big block of people, common in their goals and thoughts.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:07 AM 
Bored Guru
Bored Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 PM
Posts: 934
EQ1: Worthy
WoW: Worthy
Well, more follow-up.

Quote:
Mosque madness at Ground Zero

By ANDREA PEYSER
Last Updated: 11:37 AM, May 13, 2010
Posted: 3:59 AM, May 13, 2010


A mosque rises over Ground Zero. And fed-up New Yorkers are crying, "No!"

A chorus of critics -- from neighbors to those who lost loved ones on 9/11 to me -- feel as if they've received a swift kick in the teeth.

Plans are under way for a Muslim house of worship, topped by a 13-story cultural center with a swimming pool, in a building damaged by the fuselage of a jet flown by extremists into the World Trade Center.

The opening date shall live in infamy: Sept. 11, 2011. The 10th anniversary of the day a hole was punched in the city's heart.


How the devil did this happen?

Plans to bring what one critic calls a "monster mosque" to the site of the old Burlington Coat Factory building, at a cost expected to top $100 million, moved along for months without a peep. All of a sudden, even members of the community board that stupidly green-lighted the mosque this month are tearing their hair out.

Paul Sipos, member of Community Board 1, said a mosque is a fine idea -- someplace else.

"If the Japanese decided to open a cultural center across from Pearl Harbor, that would be insensitive," Sipos told me. "If the Germans opened a Bach choral society across from Auschwitz, even after all these years, that would be an insensitive setting. I have absolutely nothing against Islam. I just think: Why there?"

Why, indeed.

A rally against the mosque is planned for June 6, D-Day, by the human-rights group Stop Islamicization of America. Executive director Pamela Geller said, "What could be more insulting and humiliating than a monster mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center buildings that were brought down by an Islamic jihad attack? Any decent American, Muslim or otherwise, wouldn't dream of such an insult. It's a stab in the eye of America."

Called Cordoba House, the mosque and center is the brainchild of the American Society for Muslim Advancement. Executive director Daisy Khan insists it's staying put.

"For us, it's a symbol, a platform that will give voice to the silent majority of Muslims who suffer at the hands of extremists. A center will show that Muslims will be part of rebuilding lower Manhattan," said Khan, adding that Cordoba will be open to everyone.

"We were pleased to see that the community welcomed us as an asset to lower Manhattan," she added. "The community board approved it."

Not so fast.

The Financial District Committee of Community Board 1 seems to have gotten ensnared in a public-relations ploy by mosque-makers. At a May 5 meeting, the committee gave the project an enthusiastic thumbs-up. But boards have zero say over religious institutions.

Board chair Julie Menin, blind-sided by the move, predicts "this will be overturned by the full board" later this month.

But the damage is done.

Wounds that have yet to heal are now opening, as mosque opponents are branded, unfairly, as bigots.

"The worst tendency is the knee-jerk, emotional, angry, hateful response to acts of violence and war," said Donna Marsh O'Connor, who lost daughter Vanessa on 9/11 and supports the mosque. "I think it's racist tendencies."

Many more feel like Bill Doyle -- doubly maimed as he's forced to defend himself against charges of prejudice.

"I'm not a bigot. What I'm frightful about is, it's almost going to be another protest zone. A meeting place for radicals," said Doyle, whose son, Joseph, was murdered on 9/11.

"It's a slap in our face!" said Nelly Braginsky, who lost son Alexander.

Unclear is how the mosque will raise the $100 million-plus it needs.

"We would be seeking funding from anyone who would help," Khan told me. "Seeking maybe some bonds or something like that." At the May 5 community board meeting, she displayed a sign with names like "Rockefeller Brothers Fund" and "Ford Foundation," which observers believed meant money is coming from those organizations. But Khan says those groups merely gave money in the past, and no funding is yet in place.

There are many questions about the Ground Zero mosque. But just one answer.

Move it away.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:52 AM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
Quote:
A rally against the mosque is planned for June 6, D-Day, by the human-rights group Stop Islamicization of America. Executive director Pamela Geller said, "What could be more insulting and humiliating than a monster mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center buildings that were brought down by an Islamic jihad attack? Any decent American, Muslim or otherwise, wouldn't dream of such an insult. It's a stab in the eye of America."


Yeah, I'm sure Stop Islamicization of America is a human rights group. :roll: The most frightening thing about that article is that it is allegedly straight journalism and not an opinion column.

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:55 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
What's really sad is the fact that people can't look at this as a sign of us moving on, of embracing our fellow americans - regardless of faith - and letting go of our anger and prejudice and coming together. Showing the terrorists, "Hey, look. Fuck you. We're still America, we're still cool, so go blow a llama because you didn't beat us. You didn't break our culture or scare us away. And these guys? They're still Americans. They're our brothers."

Instead, they just take another step backwards. Although they claim to not be bigots - their evidence being that they say they're not bigots, of course - the fact is that they're showing that behaviour. Worse yet, they're probably doing exactly what the terrorists want. A decade later, we're still showing signs of fear, signs of a fracture between muslim-americans and the rest of us. Signs that they really had a lasting, permanent impact on us all that we just can't seem to shake off.

So is that area just a permanent no-Islam-allowed spot now?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:03 AM 
Blackburrow Lover!
Blackburrow Lover!

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:29 PM
Posts: 634
Location: Crestview, FL
EQ1: Arunhah
WoW: Scathain
Rift: Arunhah
EQ2: Scathian
Quote:
Instead, they just take another step backwards. Although they claim to not be bigots - their evidence being that they say they're not bigots, of course - the fact is that they're showing that behaviour. Worse yet, they're probably doing exactly what the terrorists want. A decade later, we're still showing signs of fear, signs of a fracture between muslim-americans and the rest of us. Signs that they really had a lasting, permanent impact on us all that we just can't seem to shake off.
Of course. We revel in our defeat by terrorism as much as the terrorists do. Hell, some people actually seem to take pride in it.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:54 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:43 PM
Posts: 1323
Bovinity Divinity wrote:
So is that area just a permanent no-Islam-allowed spot now?
I'm good with that.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:50 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Quote:
Hell, some people actually seem to take pride in it.


Oo, do elaborate!


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:53 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5011
They are not "unfairly" being called bigots. It is what it is.

Sorry, Orme.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:16 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:43 PM
Posts: 1323
Not sure what you're sorry about.

And "taste" is opinion. You can't really legislate against it, but if people want to march against it, how is that any less legitimate expression than building the Mosque?

If someone wanted to build a multi-cultural center or something that celebrated unity, I would be cool with that. But, this just seems in poor taste considering the buildings were brought down in the name of Islam - right or wrong.

Anyhooo... I think the whole thing is silly - both them building it and people marching against it.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:03 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
But, this just seems in poor taste considering the buildings were brought down in the name of Islam - right or wrong.


Based on this, anything having to do with Christianity would not be allowed anywhere in this country either.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:22 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
rugen wrote:
Quote:
But, this just seems in poor taste considering the buildings were brought down in the name of Islam - right or wrong.


Based on this, anything having to do with Christianity would not be allowed anywhere in this country either.


Current events trump ancient history.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:31 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
Current events trump ancient history.


Indeed they do. So why do we still have catholics teaching young children?

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:59 PM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
Indeed they do. So why do we still have catholics teaching young children?


So now anyone catholic who teaches children is bad? Some of the finest people I know are catholic. Some of the best teachers too.

You have a mental illness man, wonder what it's called, cathophoboc? WTF happened to your accept everyone we are all just people? Guess that only rings true if it pertains to you, right? "You can't hate on me because I'm queer, but you can hate on him he's catholic."

So fucking typical, just another hypocrite.

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:04 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Khan, if you would take a moment to read this entire thread, rather than just knee jerk flame me, you might realize that you just made my point for me.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:07 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
rugen wrote:
Quote:
Current events trump ancient history.


Indeed they do. So why do we still have catholics teaching young children?


Is that a real example or are you just trying to get a rise out of people? Serious question, I'll answer why they are not similar examples if you meant it, but it's hard for me to read sarcasim on here sometimes.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:17 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
Is that a real example or are you just trying to get a rise out of people? Serious question, I'll answer why they are not similar examples if you meant it, but it's hard for me to read sarcasim on here sometimes.


I could go on and on with items like abortion clinic bombings and murders done in the name of Christianity. The reason I picked the current Pope's woes over child rape cover ups (that he was personally involved in) is because you directly invoked current events. And it becomes more valid because it is the head of that church directly involved in it, so it becomes passively endorsed due to his actions. Am I holding all catholics responsible for child rape? No. But according to you, I should.

Just because something was done "in the name of" something, does not mean the religion itself or the followers endorse it. Religion can and does endorse some bad things (I personally have issues with the muslim treatment of women, the catholic treatment of the AIDs epidemic in poor countries, etc), but that does not equate to the religion immediately being responsible for someone else's insanity just because they decided to use that religion as their justification for said insanity. I'd hope most people are smart enough to realize the difference.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 8:58 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Jesus, Khan, I have seen more reading-clumsiness out of you in the past week than I think I've ever seen. Really, maybe you should just avoid....english in general for a while.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:10 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:43 PM
Posts: 1323
Rugen - I get your point where other people miss it.

What I would argue is proximity and scope. Meaning: There has certainly been a lot of evil in the name of Christianity (sadly). So, if a bunch of Christians burned down an abortion clinic, I think I would have a problem with a church being built on top of that site.

Again - taste/opinion here. If 5 people were killed in the clinic and someone wanted to build a church 2 blocks away... I probably wouldn't mind. 500 people... I probably wince a little. Scope / Proximity.

It's not a hard/fast rule and people acting like it is or should be miss the point. It seems we have the "quick to defend Islam" and "quick to hate Islam". I am more of the common sense league.

If the Islam-defenders can't see the symbolism and understand the emotions provoked, then they're missing the point.

If the Islam-haters think all mosques should be banned, well that's silly. But, I think giving it a little space is appropriate.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:49 AM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
The reason I picked the current Pope's woes over child rape cover ups (that he was personally involved in) is because you directly invoked current events. And it becomes more valid because it is the head of that church directly involved in it, so it becomes passively endorsed due to his actions. Am I holding all catholics responsible for child rape? No. But according to you, I should.


Or we could also say the homosexuals that happened to be catholics that raped children. Because they are homosexuals first right? Born as such correct? No way to change their orientation, right? Priesthood is a lifestyle choice where as homosexuality is not right? Why not call a spade a spade? Oh yeah. It's not convenient or PC to call them that. It's easier to bash a religion (which you seem to do at every opportunity) that doesn't jive with what you believe.

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:14 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Actually it's a common misconception that males who molest young boys are homosexual, when in reality they're not. It often has nothing to do with the sexuality at all.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:19 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 PM
Posts: 3926
For me it depends on what an organization as a whole stands for. If 90 percent of Muslims were terrorists, I think I'd have a problem with the building standing there, but that's simply not the case. With around 1 billion Muslims, I think we can pretty much guarantee that there's a pretty diverse number of opinions and lifestyles out there, and the same goes for Christianity. Suggesting that a building belonging to an organization(which in and of itself had no direct endorsement in any real form) with that broad of a spectrum being built on a particular site is in bad taste seems a little silly to me. Such a suggestion seems to indicate that the organization shares some blame for the problems, which they do not.

If anything this seems to counter that line of thought, and shows a level of tolerance and understanding that the terrorists did not show on that day.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:54 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
Rugen,
I follow your thought process, but those actions were never done in the name of the religion in the first place. If the priests molested Islamic boys to punish them for thier lack of Christianity, and the Pope had the same amount of guilt he has now, then it would be an accurate comparison.

If you want a Catholic comparison, I would think it poor taste for them to sponsor a help program for sexually abused boys anywhere in the world.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:06 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
Oh yeah. It's not convenient or PC to call them that. It's easier to bash a religion (which you seem to do at every opportunity) that doesn't jive with what you believe.


It's official. Khan has apparently lost the ability to read, if he ever had it.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, Khan. Now you're just showing the ass in dumbass at this point. Congrats.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:18 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
And now for the people that CAN read...

Orme:
Quote:
If the Islam-defenders can't see the symbolism and understand the emotions provoked, then they're missing the point.
If the Islam-haters think all mosques should be banned, well that's silly. But, I think giving it a little space is appropriate.


I actually understand the gut reaction that I think someone who had lost someone in 9/11 would probably have. We're not always the most rational of creatures (Hi Khan) at the end of the day. I just have a problem with the idea that a church that has not in any way endorsed or approved the actual attack acting like they did, which by "understanding" and "staying away" it seems to promote the idea of a sense of guilt on their part, which I don't think is helpful to the actual situation we find ourselves in with regards to an inability to differentiate between "muslim" and "terrorist".

And it raises the question..."how much space?". 2 blocks? 10 blocks? 2 miles? All of New York? It gets to be a tricky question with some very important meanings in the end, to me anyway.

Drajeck:
Quote:
I follow your thought process, but those actions were never done in the name of the religion in the first place.


So, if you are able to differentiate between actions of catholic priests that are performed while wearing the robes and while using the power their position gives, but aren't actually (well, except for the pope's actions trying to cover it up) endorsed by the church...why is it so hard to understand that tomorrow I could run outside with a machine gun and scream "for islam!", shoot a bunch of people, and it wouldn't have anything to do with the muslim faith?

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:07 PM 
Less oats more posts!
Less oats more posts!

Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:26 PM
Posts: 28
Would you build a Palestinian or Nazi 'cultural center' right beside Auschwitz and advertise it is to build relationships between muslims or Nazis and jewish people in Germany? Would you feel better or worse about such a venture if the person who proposed it and would run it was also the son of a Hamas leader who had sworn to kill all jews and the mosque was financed completely by Hamas? What date would be acceptable for it to be opened if you didn't care about the people whose ancestors were anniliated at Auschwitz. Even if you thought all the above was ok (though I don't get why you would), how would you feel if they deliberately choose a national day of mourning, the day the loved ones of Auschwitz victims mourned their dead, to open this facility? How would you see that as 'improving' relationships between the victims and the perpetrators?

The 'feelings' of those who lost loved ones on 9/11 should indeed have weight here but we will leave that aside for now, since apparently most of you don't have any/many concerns about them.

I would love to know though why would you not otherwise question a mosque being built so close to the World Trade Center site when it is being run by the son of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood (a known terrorist group whose stated aim is to wage jihad from within against the peoples in western civilizations, the USA among them, and will go to any lengths to destroy us) which he does not distance himself from at all as far as I can tell, when it is being funded by the Saudis (the home of 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists), when its building will cause other businesses in the area, established or just in the planning stage, to rearrange their plans for bars or restaurants, etc. because no alcohol can be served within hundreds of feet of such a 'facility' (this has already been an issue that other NYC neighbourhoods have had to address because of this particular group) and who knows what other restrictions will be imposed on other area businesses because of this particular building use, and when this Center's principles have declared so insensitively that they will open it on the anniversary of 9/11 next year?

Could they not, at the very least, choose another day so as not to antagonize or is this a very nasty and deliberate move? Why would you not think there may be something inappropriate here?

Would you feel differently about this particular mosque if you were told it was to be financed by Al Qaeda or Ima-jerk-idad? How do you know it is not, indirectly? What, despite what seem to be your feelings that muslims are not terrorists or sympathizers (despite their own teachings) or a bad people (despite how they treat their women, and what they say and do to to try to destroy or impose dhimmitude on anyone not muslim or who even questions their motives, etc.), would make this mosque unacceptable to you? Or what guarantees should we even ask from this group that wants to open this 'center' that it will actually do anything it is promoting it will? Any at all? They state they 'will' have a prayer room for Muslims and 'may' have one for non-Muslims too. Will the call to prayer ring out loudly 5 times a day and be heard across the WTC site as tourists and mourners parade through and around those grounds - even on 9/11 as they open? Would that not seem a bit incongruent?

And, as an aside on this slippery slope, isn't it great that the APA (American Pediatric Association) is now asking its pediatricians to do ritual circumcisions on Muslim girls in America if their parents ask for it - despite their previously very tough stance against this procedure! I gather it will be covered by insurance too .. and we all get to pay for it! Gotta love 'progress', don't we? And, against American federal law, we the people are now paying for sharia law and bank loans around the world - even close to home via Goldman Sachs and the Shore Bank. Yummy stuff! But, dang, we should just 'trust' without verifying .. just because they are Muslim? lol

I get the feeling that many of you really don't care about anything except being pc. :( I hope I am wrong on that score. The above is all true as far as anyone knows but apparently none of that matters? Are you naive? If so, you are apparently in good company - so far the only questions asked by NYC government supposedly are about the architecture. Just how long now have the 'kids' in this country been taught 'what to think', not 'how to think'?

I wonder who, of the local construction workers in NYC, many of whom are related to or were friends with people killed 9/11, will be willing to build such a building - the original of which was damaged heavily by parts of one of the planes that hit the WTC falling on it, while 80 Burlington Coat factory workers cowered in the basement? What hand does CAIR have in 'helping' to lay the political ground (and perhaps monetary) for this mosque? And how much 'influence' does the White House have here - how much has it already exercised, will exercise, in public or behind closed doors? hmmmm So many questions .. so little questioning. :( Absolutely no good answers and, it appears, so few who even care any more. Has your 'freedom to think and question' been taken away completely?

Just as most of you don't seem to see any reason why anyone would be upset about this new mosque and its choice of site (there are many other places they could have moved to, in NYC, in the area they claim to want to serve, without causing any controversy, so .. why here .. really .. why here?), others are asking questions because something doesn't seem quite right here about this proposition. I am sad though that most of those who question don't seem to be here in this group (with a few notable exceptions I see surface from time to time).

By the way, I have nothing against many individual people who happen to practice the Muslim faith (I look at character only, not at colour, faith, gender, race, etc.), but, I do question a lot about its teachings and principles. I see nothing wrong or bad about doing so either - and neither should you. So yes, I do question a lot about this particular mosque - its location, its motives, its leader, its funding, its timing. Why don't you?

It really baffles me how they could think this was a good idea. Could all the promotion hype of the Imam who is starting this mosque be merely a matter of taqiyah (a Muslim condoned act of 'pretending' - i.e. lying - which is designed to undermine the foundations of western civilizations)? hmmmm

Questions, friends. Always ask questions. Look for analogies and see if there are scary similarities. Analyze thoroughly before you spout off that all is ok. Or the potential is very great that you will be duped!


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:15 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
My last response holds true for that scenerio. The actions of the catholic priests (while despicable) were not motivated by a hatred of other religions or done in the name of religion. There are examples out there that are, but this isn't one of them.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:27 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
what seem to be your feelings that muslims are not terrorists or sympathizers (despite their own teachings)


This is really all that needs to be seen in your screed, Chiasma.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:40 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
My last response holds true for that scenerio. The actions of the catholic priests (while despicable) were not motivated by a hatred of other religions or done in the name of religion. There are examples out there that are, but this isn't one of them.


You seem very stuck on the "in the name of religion" bit and not willing to clarify it. As such, I can only assume at this point that you believe that just because someone says they do something in the name of a religion, that religion endorses it and all followers of that religion are now responsible/accountable for that person's actions. In particular, you seem very stuck on the fact that the mainstream religion is now accountable for the fundamentalist actions/beliefs.

That's a very interesting place to be standing when groups like Army of God exist.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:11 PM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
So would it be inappropriate to build a Southern Baptist church next door to a gay bar, Planned Parenthood, or Centennial Olympic Park? Should gay people have to be reminded of bombings as they go to their Sunday afternoon volleyball and beer busts?

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:26 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Thinking about this further, Drajeck, I actually think my initial use of the Catholic abuse scandal the pope finds himself in is a more perfect example than I originally intended.

So here's the deal.

A lot of people fundamentally believe that even if the Muslim church does not endorse their fanatics, they do not do enough to discourage/stop/prevent their fanatics from doing things in their name. As such, they share the blame of those fanatics actions to these people. You're starting to sound like one of those people to me.

So, if you take that belief and apply it to the current scandal in the catholic church, where known priests and leaders in the church have abused children and it has been known, covered up, and the individual moved to another location where they could continue abusing? It would seem to fall into that same "does not do enough to prevent/discourage/stop" trap that you seem to be applying to one religion but giving a pass on to another. You can say it wasn't done "in the name of" the religion all you want, the facts speak otherwise. Those priests used their position and their influence in the church, the church's name, to abuse those children and to escape judgement from it.

So your "in the name of" stuff is a pure fallacy argument and makes the point so obscure as to be indistinguishable. The point at which you have to make the distinction is the blatant endorsement of such acts by the mainstream, not the fringe.

Maybe we have a fundamental disagreement about the "mainstream" muslim and what they endorse. That certainly seems to be the case with Chiasma here. But you can't on one hand try to distance yourself from anything negative about your own religion of choice while at the same time trying to hold worshippers of another completely accountable for every action taken by anyone that claimed to be a member. It is intellectually dishonest.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:24 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
Quote:
You seem very stuck on the "in the name of religion" bit and not willing to clarify it.


I thought I was clear, I'm not trying to avoid the issue. The terrorists attacks of 9-11 were directly motivated to further the cause of thier religion, they believed killing was a way to bring attention to thier cause as well as punish non radical islamics. The priests in question were not sexually abusing boys for any ulterior purpose other than thier own sick and twisted minds. The desired outcome of the molestations was not to further the cause of the church or to directly harm another religion. Neither reason is good, but they are different.

Quote:
So would it be inappropriate to build a Southern Baptist church next door to a gay bar, Planned Parenthood, or Centennial Olympic Park? Should gay people have to be reminded of bombings as they go to their Sunday afternoon volleyball and beer busts?


If an abortion clinic was bombed by extremist protesters, I would use the same logic in saying it would be in poor taste to build a southern baptist church on the site.

Quote:
A lot of people fundamentally believe that even if the Muslim church does not endorse their fanatics, they do not do enough to discourage/stop/prevent their fanatics from doing things in their name. As such, they share the blame of those fanatics actions to these people. You're starting to sound like one of those people to me.


This isn't how I'm reaching my conclusion, but as I've stated in other threads, I do believe this. I do not hold individual muslims accountable, but I do believe the upper echelon leadership does lip service when talking about the issue.

Quote:
So, if you take that belief and apply it to the current scandal in the catholic church, where known priests and leaders in the church have abused children and it has been known, covered up, and the individual moved to another location where they could continue abusing? It would seem to fall into that same "does not do enough to prevent/discourage/stop" trap that you seem to be applying to one religion but giving a pass on to another.


You have misunderstood me if you think I disagree with this. The catholic church does bear responsibility for the cover up. Individual catholics do not, but the leadership certainly does. They practically endorsed it by making the punishment a "hush up and move to a new parrish" offense. There just isn't a specific place where this occured that everyone can focus on, but if there was, I would say building a church on or near that site was in the same poor taste as the main topic here.

Quote:
Maybe we have a fundamental disagreement about the "mainstream" muslim and what they endorse. That certainly seems to be the case with Chiasma here. But you can't on one hand try to distance yourself from anything negative about your own religion of choice while at the same time trying to hold worshippers of another completely accountable for every action taken by anyone that claimed to be a member. It is intellectually dishonest.


We clearly have a fundamental disagreement, but I don't think you understand my position. Perhaps I've explained poorly before, and hopefully it is clearer now. I do understand (and agree with) the position of not blaming an entire religion for the actions of the fringe, but I don't see not wanting a mosque on ground zero as contradictory to that. It is just in poor taste. The question of how far would be ok is a valid one, and I don't know exactly. Far enough that it isn't actually on a building site that is vacant due to the blast would be my guess.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:40 AM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
Perhaps I've explained poorly before, and hopefully it is clearer now.


It is. I still think it is fundamentally wrong (just being honest! heh), but I can't really make you think like I do and wouldn't if I could. We all come to our truths different ways. And I do get the leadership of the church thing. I can't tell you how galling it is for me listening to catholic leadership preach on the evils of gays while they whistle and shuffle their feet at the recent revelations about head of the institution itself. It is also worth noting at some point, I do think the individual is responsible for the leadership.....after all, they have a choice to follow or not....and to really think about who they are following and why....but that is a different debate entirely.

I actually sort of expect the guy responsible for this project, with his many years of trying to bridge American and Muslim cultural divides, to look at the response to this and say, "You know what? This isn't what this was supposed to be about. I'll respectfully withdraw". I can hardly blame someone who has devoted as much time and energy to working on repairing american/muslim relations for wanting to address that big gaping whole in the cultural divide since 9/11....that thing that has lead the average american to simply think every muslim supports terrorism.

Things will change, both in muslim culture and in america. Heck, we just made a muslim woman Miss America. That has to be stirring some of the die hard extremists on both sides....but progress is progress and will keep right on coming, no matter how much the extremes want it not to.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:51 AM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Funny thing is, I don't remember seeing Catholic leaders applauding and followers rejoicing in the streets after a priest is caught molesting young boys.

I can google "muslims rejoice after 9/11 bombings" and get 1,750,000 pages of Muslims though, dancing and calling the bombers heroes with leaders of different sects applauding the killing of thousands.

And yet you still try and make a comparison or connection between the two...

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:11 AM 
Bored Guru
Bored Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 PM
Posts: 934
EQ1: Worthy
WoW: Worthy
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:19 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Quote:
I can google "muslims rejoice after 9/11 bombings" and get 1,750,000 pages of Muslims though, dancing and calling the bombers heroes with leaders of different sects applauding the killing of thousands.


Yep, because Google Images is definitely the way to go about understanding the billion or so Muslims in the world and declaring them all to think and act the same way.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:43 AM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
And yet you still try and make a comparison or connection between the two...


Well, at least you read half the thread in an attempt to be relevant to the discussion at hand. Good boy! Get back to me when you've read the rest.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:23 AM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
Yep, because Google Images is definitely the way to go about understanding the billion or so Muslims in the world and declaring them all to think and act the same way.


Idiot. No one in their right mind thinks that. Of course the majority are good muslims just like the majority are good Catholics.

The difference here is in the comparison. No one condones what the priests did where on the other hand hundreds of thousands do/did from the muslims.

That is where the rift is. The appearance of gratification on the part of the most vocal sects of the muslim world with more and more of them speaking out in favor of killing anyone/anything having to do with America. The Catholic church, not even the most devout orders on the other hand do not condone molesting children.

IF anything, blame the catholics of the middle ages for enslaving the muslims and bringing forward the mulsim hatred for anything christian. But don't try to draw comparisons between applauded terrorist acts and molesting children.

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:47 AM 
Selling 50 Orc Belts!
Selling 50 Orc Belts!

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:09 PM
Posts: 650
Location: Texas
EQ1: Xantheus
WoW: Xantheus
Some of you idiots need to learn the difference between Islam and Radical Islam.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:50 AM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Answer your phone sometime Clancy!

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:58 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
Quote:
Some of you idiots need to learn the difference between Islam and Radical Islam.


I think that's what most of us have been getting at.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:00 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
It's fine to disagree, but to just say people are claiming radical islam and islam are equivilant tells me you haven't read the thread. I've already wasted too much time typing this 2 sentence reply if that is the case.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:07 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
It's not so much that people are saying it outright, but more that it seems like they're not consciously making the separation between the two.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:40 PM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
I eagerly await Chiasma's out-of-nowhere 10 paragraph explanation of how having a Muslim Miss USA is a step towards Sharia law. Somehow I don't think Ms. Fahki is smuggling a suicide bomb. Or a box cutter.

(Sidenote: This is one of those times that I know I'm totally gay. I think that if I weren't, she'd be providing a billion impure thoughts. She's freaking gorgeous.)

Image

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:46 PM 
Lanys Supporter
Lanys Supporter
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:46 AM
Posts: 1398
WoW: Drajeck
Ironically, she agrees with the new Arizona immigration law. And don't be so sure she isn't smuggling a box cutter...I'd better search her.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 2:56 PM 
Sports Guru
Sports Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:15 AM
Posts: 5747
Location: Houston
WoW: Peno
Uh. Pretty sure she didn't answer a question on the Arizona Immigration Law, unless it was prior to the pageant last night. She answered a question on whether or not birth control pills should be covered under insurance. I saw about 10 mins of the show (off and on) last night and happened to catch that part and the ending.

And yea, she's pretty hot.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 3:56 PM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
Draj, it was the blonde runner-up, Miss Oklahoma, who cited states' rights in her approval of the Arizona immigration law. Miss Michigan (above) spoke positively about birth control.

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:01 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:43 PM
Posts: 1323
rugen wrote:
And it raises the question..."how much space?". 2 blocks? 10 blocks? 2 miles? All of New York? It gets to be a tricky question with some very important meanings in the end, to me anyway.
I dunno. A mosque right there just feels too close. I wouldn't bother picketing, but I also wouldn't be surprised if I was building it and got protested.

Again... it's opinion and this just doesn't seem like a fight I would want to take up, regardless of which side.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 292 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y