So all the news goes on about the massive environmental damage and ongoing containment of quite possibly the largest disaster of its kind ever but I see no talk about why this off shore rig had the explosions that caused it to go down.

I know the containment takes precedence over everything else, but one must wonder why this happened in the first place. These offshore rigs are equipped with safeguards to prevent this and I speculate that this was no accident, but an act of environmental terrorism, either by a group opposed to drilling in the gulf or a terrorist act of another nature.

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Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

Sometimes shit happens.

Yes, there are safeguards to prevent things like that happening, but like Neesha said; sometimes shit happens.

Buried in one of the articles I read, there was a line about Obama ordering SWAT teams to other rigs. Weird.

Perhaps that is why they are keeping quiet about it, perhaps there is more to come.

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Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

I'm pretty sure Obama's healthcare socialism caused it, and the Wall Street reform is what might cause the next one. That's why the SWAT team was dispatched.

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I think it's the NBA referee conspiracy!

A buddy of mine is working on the spill and when I asked him what he thought about the potential of it being some sort of terrorist attack, he said he didn't think it was, but it was certainly a possibility due to how fast the rig sank. So there you go. Some dude who you don't know thinks it is possible that it was terrorist-related.

ps: His company is one of the ones contracted by BP to use their underwater ROVs to stop the leak(s).

Yes, that's it...

Let's live in a world where we fear everything might be a terrorist attack.

That's how we beat them!

Uhh...

The timing is alarming. Realizing that if it was terrorism of any kind someone would have claimed credit for it is dis-alarming.

I've heard several unrelated people say this today, was this a talking point somewhere?

Right wing nutjobs are using it to say the liberal weirdos did it to stop Obama's plan for more drilling.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing a lot about how these oil rigs didn't have safeguard shut-off protection in place that would have prevented this...the same kind of safeguard that other oil-producing nations use, but which we don't require here in the US.

I know the American public has been trained to hate any kind of regulation or government interference...but this is a prime example of a case where maybe we should have taken the environmental risks a little more seriously instead of playing by the capitalist "profit at all costs" model.

Why does anyone need to stop his plan for drilling? He's talking about drilling places with no known oil supplies in the first place.

Edit: Last I heard the valves are in place, the concrete was poured in such a way that they're having issues turning them off.

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

Concrete poured by Haliburton!!!!!!

The safeguards were in place. The thing that seems to be confusing alot of people is the mechanism to engage the safeguards. Other countries require the safeguards to be acoustically operatable, we don't. In other words, we require the workers to engage the safeguards while physically on the platform and other countries require only that someone grab the activation device on their way to safety. I like the second system better because nobody has to choose between their safety and doing their job.

hummm, does not tell how that happened, but I am sure its George Bushes fault.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

I blame Infinity Ward.

Funny, I thought you would claim it was China =p

Fuck China

The fundamental problem with the oil rig problem is not that there was an accident. The problem is that there was no recovery plan in place. That's what boggles me.

There is no plan that covers 100% of issues, but I would assume before we poke a big fricking hole in the world we would have a plan for plugging it up.

The plan was probably something along the lines of, "wait and see if it's financially prudent to do something about it."

Stop staring at me Leo!

First I heard some equipment malfunctioned. Then it was the equip malfunctioned because the govt allowed them to skirt certain safety regs....at which point it then quickly became a methane bubble went up the pipe.

Hmm, cant point a finger at and yell about a methane bubble, can you?

Civilian view of area.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=524_1273510578

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts2/070oilspillsolution.html

Some ideas of how to stop it.

Owning a copy of ms paint does not qualify someone to come up with plans to stop man made disasters.

Nothing wrong with people trying to think if solutions, never know where a good one will be found. I don't think this one works though, as I don't believe it is possible to inflate a balloon at that depth.

Why not? Obviously it would require a far larger amount of pressure to overcome the additional pressure of additional atmospheres, but why wouldn't it inflate?

As far as the guy's ideas, who knows. Pouring concrete 5000 feet below the ocean surface isn't the easiest thing in the world, especially with a pressurized fluid surging out of the place you're trying to pour it, but it might work. I was personally kind of curious if they had any heaters attached to the bell to prevent hydrates from forming.

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

I really hope the Obama administration has what it takes to truly hold BP accountable. I know it's not all Obama, but this is really starting to become a defining moment of his presidency, and I continue to be concerned about the complete and utter ineptitude shown thus far, on the parts of all parties.

And to avoid making this a Dem/Repub thing, I realize this has gone on in other admins, but it happened to blow up on his watch.

If this spill puts BP out of business, I am OK with it. It has to be made 100% clear that companies will be held accountable and it has to be financially infeasible for them to operate in this manner.

The real beauty of this is...because BP is publicly traded as soon as they are forced to pay the bill their stock will collapse and there will be no money to pay us back.

Someone save this and rub it in my face later when I'm wrong because I really hope I am.

There is a cap on the liability a company like BP will have to pay. It's really low. Congress has talked about passing an emergency measure to raise it, but that seems unlikely.

As for your link, Leo.. I suppose if your answer to the question: "What should the federal government do to contain the worst oil spill in history?" is "nothing", then your link works for me.

"What should the federal government do to contain the worst oil spill in history?"

Out of curiosity, and honestly not because I"m trying to start any kind of argument, what is your answer to this question?

I meant to post more and not just the link, but had to run off to another office. Had just read that before catching up on this thread.

I don't think anyone's saying the federal government should do nothing. But the fact remains that nobody has a larger stake in fixing this than BP. They're already looking at serious financial penalties (which yes, could be made higher, as additional incentive), not to mention the less tangible decline of public opinion.

Also sadly true is that nobody has better expertise in stopping this mess than the oil industry.

As an aside, it's far from the worst oil spill in history. It's only the U.S.'s worst spill.

I'll answer in two ways. One, what they should have done immediately and could still do now, and then what they need to do moving forward. It's clear that oil spills on rigs are a possibility, and that we can't stop drilling. Well, it is from my perspective. So the issue is more about mitigating these situations.

What should have been done:

1) Recognize that the spill, though created by a private company and the cleanup of which must be owned by a private company, affects public lands and can dramatically impact the local economy and environments in the gulf region.

2) Create a crisis management chain of command that can organize the response, from communicating what is being done, to coordinating with state, federal and private resources so that everything that can be done, is being done. If you had a chain of command that was dedicated to this, and empowered to make decisions, you wouldn't see the huge slowdowns in response due to bureaucracy that we're seeing at the local level now. LA has requested equipment and permission for various efforts and the equipment is either slowed unnecessarily, or decisions are slowed unnecessarily.

3) Put immediate pressure on BP to begin cleanup, as well as oversight into what those measures are. For example, if Top Kill works, and it looks like it might be... then why wasn't Top Kill ordered immediately? Was it to protect BP's investment, because Top Kill would make it very difficult to recover? Those are decisions we can and should be influencing.

4) Hold people accountable, immediately. The reverse of "heckuva job, Brownie". Show that this detail has as much attention as the 2 vacations Obama has taken since it started. Get rid of Salazar, minimally.

5) Offer whatever federal resources are needed to help in the areas we do know: organizing cleanup, deploy oil catching booms, boats and skimmers, that can mitigate this to some extent - immediately.

Bottom line is that the response from the feds was too slow, and it's still too slow.

Moving forward, I've read several things that have disturbed me, from regulations that are in place, but not followed, or exemptions given, to ideas post-Valdez and post-Katrina that could have been put in place years ago to mitigate a disaster like this from being the worst oil spill in US history. At a time when we were going to expand offshore drilling, it's fucked up that a review of current efforts wasn't already underway and quite frankly, done, before we start more of these.

Unofficial report on CNBC that the top kill was successful. Man, I sure hope that is true, usually those early reports are...crossing fingers.

I don't think there is a material that can withstand the pressure that would be needed to inflate it and still be flexible enough to seal an opening (an irregular one at that).

As I just posted though, hopefully this is a moot point!

the close up of the break on the live feed appears to still be spewing oil as hard as ever

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Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

Um... easy answer to what to do: Have a risk management plan in place. The absence of that plan is what I find completely, and utterly mind boggling.

Mira - Look at the color. It's spewing mud now as they are trying to pack it in and then they'll try and get cement in.

Hopefully it works.

just was watching a bit ago and the robot arm holding what looked to be 2" to 2 1/2" combination wrench was beating on the side of the bpo

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Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

I'm to the point where I want to see someone publicly executed. The corruption and incompetence is mind boggling.

Obama needs to fucking man up and kick up some dirt. I'm assuming the recent Attorney General activity is part of that... but it's time to really whip some ass. I can't believe lefties are giving him a pass on this.

I want to be mad at him, but I can't figure out what for, if you know what I mean. Every time someone says, "Obama is fucking this up!" I ask them what specifically he needs to do, and no one gives me a satisfactory answer.

So I'll ask it here too and see if we get a better answer... what specific things do you think Obama should be doing for this problem, that he isn't?

Piledriving a fucking shark for starters. I'm writing in Mike Haggar in '12.

I was listening to the local talk radio today.
The DJ said that him and his brother came up with the same Idea.
Use a Small Nuke to seal the hole.
Any thoughts? Would this work? Or just make things worse?

It would probably make things much worse environmentally (clean up, death of organisms in the ocean, the marshes that are already contaminated with oil will then have radiation fallout), and that's if it even worked. I don't know anything about nuclear blasts underwater.

They go BOOM like this.


And this:

Frib, short of putting a moratorium on this type of drilling pending an investigation, riding BP's ass, and cleaning regulatory house, I don't see what the Admin *can* do. My understanding is that, by law, BP is required to do the cleanup and stop the leak, and the government is only allowed to regulate, observe, cajole, and fine the fuck out of them when all is said and done.

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Hope is the new black.

Is there really such a thing as a "small" nuke? I can't even imagine what the fallout would do to oyster beds, shrimping grounds, and the like.

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Hope is the new black.

On NPR yesterday a professor dismissed the idea as crazy, and said it would just make everything worse.

It's a terrible idea. Anyone who has ever spent 5 minutes playing with the sand at a beach should know that is it possible to get a solid to act as a liquid if there is sufficient water mixed with it. Setting off a nuke down there could end up liquifiying the sea floor by creating a void that would then rapid fill with water and causing a huge hole to form. Basically instead of a leak they would just free the whole deposit at once.

I giggled.

What should Obama do? Personally, I've thought since the day the damned thing sunk that the Feds needed to take over the protection and cleanup efforts (sending BP the bill of course) and leave resolving the leak to BP (it IS what they are the closest thing we have to experts at).

Protection of the marshes and beaches should not have waited as long as it did. Waiting on permits should NEVER have happened (and should not still be happening) and the only one with the power to cut through the red tape the DC agencies exist for is the President. Environmental impact studies? REALLY?!?

It's funny.

The disconnect between big government liberals and the rest of America is interesting. Most Americans think the US should do more in the gulf spill, and less with banks, health care, etc. Most liberals want more government in those areas, but toss their hands up in the air when confronted with how the government should respond to this spill.

I keep reading articles about the contradiction between people like Bobby Jindal, the governor of LA and his stances on big government. Oh, you were against government takeover of health care, or GM, or Fannie/Freddie.. but now you want the Gov to help you out with your little problem? But the reality is the opposite. You would think liberals would be all over the government taking this over. It their motives were pure - I always thought a liberal was pro-government because the government can do extraordinary things outside the abilities of states and private companies - you'd think they could stick to their guns a little bit. The reality is.. liberals care only about "winning" the debate, not being consistent, just like conservatives. And the independents/moderates are stuck in the middle, once again.

They demonize the motives of big insurance and pharma to push a health care agenda, yet somehow think BP can be entrusted *totally* to stop the leak and clean up the spill.

For me, this is *exactly* what the federal government should do. Taking over when a problem is bigger / too important to be entrusted to a private company or the states.

Take over and do what exactly?

Coordinate controlled burns, hire workers, get the booms placed, build berms, whatever the hell they need to to protect the coast/marsh areas.

There would be some crossover areas (ie dispersant usage) but overall they are two seperate tasks. Gov't can get red tape cut through faster than any private entity.