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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:50 AM 
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http://www.alan.com/2010/04/25/seattle- ... ammed-day/

So in light of recent Southpark related controversy a local cartoonist is challenging artists the world over to draw Muhammed and submit their drawings on May 20th. I'm curious to see what happens. Will each artist be singled out and targeted? Will Muslims finally get over it and stop trying to enforce their religious doctrine on non Muslims? Is this inviting a new set of terrorist attacks?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:33 AM 
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The Daily Show response to the South Park thing was funny.



http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-22-2010/south-park-death-threats


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:47 PM 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:50 PM 
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Oh shit Lany's is going to get bombed for sure now....


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:43 PM 
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Lany's what is going to get bombed? Did you just accidentally the whole thing?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:10 PM 
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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:26 AM 
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Unfortunately the artist pussied out.


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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 11:08 AM 
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I was kind of bumbed out that Southpark pussied out on it, I mean two episods with no good ending

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:20 PM 
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I almost made Times Square go boom... sorry.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:17 PM 
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I found this relevant.

On standing up to totalitarian Islam

Mark Goldblatt | May 14, 2010

Reason

I got to know the poet Allen Ginsberg towards the end of his life. Not very well, just a nodding acquaintance, but after he died I attended a memorial in his honor at the City University Graduate School. At that service, his personal assistant related a story about Ginsberg’s reaction to the death sentence pronounced on the novelist Salman Rushdie by Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989.

Rushdie’s “crime,” you’ll recall, was writing a provocative, perhaps even blasphemous novel inspired by the life of Muhammad called The Satanic Verses.
Though I might be screwing up a few details, the gist of the story was as follows: Soon after news of the fatwa broke, Ginsberg and his assistant climbed into the back seat of a taxi in Manhattan. After a glance at the cab driver’s name, Ginsberg politely inquired if he was a Muslim. When the cabbie replied that he was, Ginsberg asked him what he thought about the death sentence on Rushdie. The cabbie answered that he thought that Rushdie’s book was disrespectful of Islam, and that the Ayatollah had every right to do what he had done. At this point, according to his assistant, Ginsberg, one of the gentlest men ever to walk the planet, flew into a rage, screaming at the cabbie as he continued to drive, “Then I shit on your religion! Do you hear me? I shit on Islam! I shit on Muhammad! Do you hear? I shit on Muhammad!” Ginsberg demanded that the cabbie pull over. The cabbie complied, and, without paying the fare, Ginsberg and his assistant climbed out. He was still screaming at the cabbie as the car drove off.

I’ve had a couple of weeks now to think about Ginsberg cursing out that cabbie, and cursing out Islam and Muhammad. You see, I live in Manhattan, three blocks from Times Square. As near as I can determine, I was walking with a friend about thirty feet from the car bomb on May 1st right around the time it was supposed to detonate. Except for the technical incompetence of a Muslim dirtbag named Faisal Shahzad, I and my friend would likely be dead now. Note the phrase: “Muslim dirtbag.” Neither term by itself accounts for the terrorist act he attempted to perpetrate; both terms, however, are equally complicit in it. It might have been a crapshoot of nature and nurture that wrought a specimen like Shahzad, but it was Islam that inspired him, that gave his fecal stain of a life its depth and its justification.

Why is that so difficult to admit?

Let me ask the question another way: Where’s the rage?

Why won’t anyone say in public what Ginsberg said in the back seat of that cab? If Islam justifies, or is understood by millions of Muslims to justify, setting off a bomb in Times Square, then I shit on Islam.

There are times for interfaith dialogue, for mutual respect and compassion. This isn’t one of them. Shahzad’s car bomb was parked in front of the offices of Viacom, the parent company of the Comedy Central, which airs the program South Park. Last month, the creators of South Park decided to poke fun at the Prophet Muhammad — just as they’d poked fun at Moses and Jesus many times in the past. Death threats followed. It’s too early to connect the Times Square bomb plot to the South Park blasphemy, but police have not ruled it out.

If Shahzad was offended by an animated cartoon and decided to defend the Prophet’s name by killing hundreds of civilians—mothers with their babies in strollers, wide-eyed teenagers in tour groups, husbands and wives out for a night on the town—then I’ll say, along with the poet, I shit on Muhammad.

Americans characterize our collective deference towards the feelings of Muslims as “political correctness.” The phrase may be apt with respect to certain ethnic and religious minorities, but our tip-toeing around Islamic sensibilities is nothing more than plain, old-fashioned cowardice. MSNBC stooge Lawrence O’Donnell, for example, repeatedly slandered Mormonism during the 2008 presidential campaign as a sidebar to his creepily obsessive verbal jihad against then-candidate Mitt Romney. But when asked by radio host Hugh Hewitt whether he would insult Muhammad the way he’d insulted Joseph Smith, O’Donnell replied with rare candor: “Oh, well, I’m afraid of what the... that’s where I’m really afraid. I would like to criticize Islam much more than I do publicly, but I’m afraid for my life if I do.... Mormons are the nicest people in the world. They’ll never take a shot at me. Those other people, I’m not going to say a word about them.”

That’s the problem in a nutshell. But it’s not just O’Donnell’s problem. It’s our problem. America’s problem. The West’s problem. We lack the moral courage to walk the walk, to put our individual lives on the line in order to defend the principles of free thought and free expression — the very principles that allowed the Judeo-Christian West to leave the Islamic East in the dust, literally and figuratively, three centuries ago.

When Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh was murdered for producing a short movie critical of Islam’s treatment of women in 2004, where were the public screenings of the film? When Muslims in several countries rioted against pen and ink images of Muhammad printed in a Danish newspaper in 2005, where were the public billboards of those sketches? And when the creators of South Park trotted out the Prophet in a ridiculous bear costume, and received death threats in return, where were the mass-produced tee shirts of that image?

I’ll take a size-medium, cotton if possible, and I’ll wear it in Times Square.

Since 2001, many Americans have asked how they can contribute in a direct way to the war against totalitarian Islam. Now we have an answer. If it’s legal, and likely to offend the radicals, just do it. That seems straightforward enough. But how many of us will have the nerve to stand up to a million or so Muslim dirtbags, and to scores of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of their fellow travelers and psychic enablers, and say in unison, “You want to kill the Enlightenment, you’re going to have to come through me.”

Mark Goldblatt’s new novel, Sloth, has nothing to do with Islam, but he is pleased to announce that the cover image of a cockroach is in fact Muhammad. You can tell because his antennae form the letter “M.”


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:09 PM 
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Guurn wrote:
“You want to kill the Enlightenment, you’re going to have to come through me.”


I'll tell you something, if there's one thing all of the other religions besides Islam get right, it's Enlightenment.

They're ALL equally worthless.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:11 PM 
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See, he's taking a couple isolated incidents and extrapolating them to the entire Islamic faith and then saying, "I shit on Muhammed!"

I could do the same thing. Every time a Christian nutjob shoots an abortion doctor and fringe Christian elements cheer, I can say, "I shit on Jesus!"

Every time those nutjobs picket the funeral of a soldier and laugh at his death and how he deserved it...I can say, "I shit on Jesus!"

Every time a gay man is harassed, attacked or killed because of his sexual orientation I can make the same claim that the author makes here:

Quote:
but it was Islam that inspired him, that gave his fecal stain of a life its depth and its justification.


and say that Christianity inspired their hatred of gays and then say, "I shit on Jesus!"

It's so easy for us as Americans to point at the Islamic faith and treat it like a single, inseperable bloc. It's easy for any group of people to do that to any other group of people, actually. Any alien concept is easily categorized, stereotyped and straw-men are set up in vast numbers to facilitate the demonization of everyone subscribing to that concept.

Dissenters from said demonization are said to be too "politically correct", "too afraid" to stand up for "what's right", or just plain dumb."

It's a pretty basic human tendency. It's also not very smart.

Pretty much every religion has, "Kill so-and-so if they do such-and-such." in their holy books. The Bible has a good amount of it, too. But lo and behold, the majority of Christians choose not to follow those parts, just like the majority of Muslims choose not to follow those parts in the Qur'an.

If you want to "Shit on Muhammed!" for that, fine. Just make sure you save some of that shit for Jesus and all the other bastard saviors.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:28 PM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
See, he's taking a couple isolated incidents and extrapolating them to the entire Islamic faith and then saying, "I shit on Muhammed!"

I could do the same thing. Every time a Christian nutjob shoots an abortion doctor and fringe Christian elements cheer, I can say, "I shit on Jesus!"

If you want to "Shit on Muhammed!" for that, fine. Just make sure you save some of that shit for Jesus and all the other bastard saviors.


These aren't isolated incidents on either part and trying to make them seem like it is just misleading. People do say crap like, "I shit on Jesus" all the time and I haven't heard of the Perry Bible Fellowship or anyone else trying to kill them for it. Either you are being purposefully naive or just ignorant.

Did you read that and actually think that Ginsberg believed that all people of that religion are nutjobs or did you think that he was trying to make another point?


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:36 PM 
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These aren't isolated incidents on either part and trying to make them seem like it is just misleading.


Yes, they are. Sorry, but it's not like there's a tremendous rash of Islamic-driven violence in the United States. Get closer to the middle east and you see a lot more, yes, but then it's not as simple as "Crazy Arabs".

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People do say crap like, "I shit on Jesus" all the time and I haven't heard of the Perry Bible Fellowship or anyone else trying to kill them for it. Either you are being purposefully naive or just ignorant.


So...you contend that:

1) The Bible does not tell its readers that they should kill people for certain things.

2) Christians do not go out and harass, hurt, discriminate or kill people for said things, or other reasons pertaining to their faith.

Seriously, that's what you're asserting. Who's being naive or ignorant here?


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:03 PM 
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Did you read that and actually think that Ginsberg believed that all people of that religion are nutjobs or did you think that he was trying to make another point?


Actually, I read that and thought Ginsburg was an asshole.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:42 PM 
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Quote:

So...you contend that:

1) The Bible does not tell its readers that they should kill people for certain things.

2) Christians do not go out and harass, hurt, discriminate or kill people for said things, or other reasons pertaining to their faith.

Seriously, that's what you're asserting. Who's being naive or ignorant here?


1) Nope, didn't say that.

2) Actually I said exactly the opposite of that.

Try to remember who he was yelling at.

-Ginsberg asked him what he thought about the death sentence on Rushdie. The cabbie answered that he thought that Rushdie’s book was disrespectful of Islam, and that the Ayatollah had every right to do what he had done.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:48 PM 
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Wait, what? You're off the track here or something, I don't follow what:

Quote:
Try to remember who he was yelling at.

-Ginsberg asked him what he thought about the death sentence on Rushdie. The cabbie answered that he thought that Rushdie’s book was disrespectful of Islam, and that the Ayatollah had every right to do what he had done.


Has to do with the points that came beforehand. Try to remember that he was speaking to some cabbie? Ok.

Quote:
1) Nope, didn't say that.

2) Actually I said exactly the opposite of that.


In response to my drawing of parallels between Christianity and Islam's holy texts both speaking of violence and followers committing violence you said:

Quote:
People do say crap like, "I shit on Jesus" all the time and I haven't heard of the Perry Bible Fellowship or anyone else trying to kill them for it. Either you are being purposefully naive or just ignorant.


So I was being naive or ignorant for drawing the parallel, but now you say that you weren't disagreeing with the parallel? Again, I'm not following where you're leading with this.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:53 AM 
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Bov, I understand your point, and I agree with it for the most part, but while it is largely socially repugnant for Christians to follow the evil shit their religion tells them to do (mostly, there's still some that seems fine) that's not entirely true for the people of Islam. Sure, you may not see much of it in the U.S. or other "western" countries, but spend some time in a predominantly Islamic nation and you will see it a lot more.

Christianity and Islam are both "religions of the book" There are really very few actual differences between them. Islam just happens to be a little more open about how fucked up they are, and Islamic countries don't always offer them the opportunity to not be brainwashed by their clerics.

You seen Bible Camp? Imagine entire countries like that.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:34 AM 
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Oh, I totally agree there. By and large the Islamic nations seem to be behind the rest of the industralized world when it comes to human rights.

Well, actually, now that I'm writing this and thinking about it...is that entirely true? I'm not so sure, come to think of it. Other non-Islamic nations around the world seem to be pretty far behind too, albeit for other reasons. (I'm looking at you here, China and some other places.)

That's beside the point though, I understand what you're saying.

I can also understand somewhat why those nations behave the way they do, though. Look at it from their perspective. The general populace of many of those nations is generally uneducated and poor by our standards, the west has been fucking with them for who knows how long, every now and then we get it in our heads to just go over and bomb something, someone, or someplace. Religion or no religion, people under those circumstances historically resort to extreme measures.

Seriously...we Americans flip out over a car bomb that didn't even go off. The media flips out, people act like we're under assault, folks start up with the "Crazy Muslims!" stuff all over again...so how do you think they feel when we're over there putting troops all over the place, blowing shit up, killing civilians (yes, it happens), destroying homes, replacing governments, etc etc.

When we see middle-eastern citizens burning the American flag, is it because they're crazy Islamic madmen, or because they're just plan pissed at us? Even though their religion might be the reins with which men like Bin Laden control them, does Islam really have anything to do with what has them whipped up into a frenzy to begin with?

It's so werid, I've felt like such a Champion of Islam on the boards lately, hah. It just bothers me to see Americans(Christians) acting as though Islam is this evil religion that encourages war and violence and only serving to widen a rift between our own citizens here at home.

I guess that's my only point. Condemn terrorism, condemn extremists, condemn the sorry state of human rights in many nations around the world, but don't condemn Islam or people of Islamic faith. Especially the law-abiding, productive American Muslims here at home.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:11 PM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
I guess that's my only point. Condemn terrorism, condemn extremists, condemn the sorry state of human rights in many nations around the world, but don't condemn Islam or people of Islamic faith. Especially the law-abiding, productive American Muslims here at home.


I like this, very well said.

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