One of the problems people have with welfare is seeing all the overweight people on it.

I was wondering wondering why we don't control what foodstuffs can and cannot be purchased. (moreso than we already do)

For example, on WIC, people get juice, eggs, penut butter and things like that... why don't we do the same thing for food stamps?

No more hot pockets or frozen pizzas.... you have to eat beans and vegetables. Don't like it? Tough shit.

Seems like a win-win to me. They get food, good food that keeps them healthier and saves money on their health care costs, as well as giving them a little more motivation to provide their own food.

_________________

Really?

We can't tell them what to do with our money. That would be mean.

It's the same reason a lot of low income folks are gigantic fat slobs a lot of the time: junk food is cheap while the healthier stuff is more expensive.

Now why they still smoke 3 packs of 7.00 a pack cigs and buy 20 bucks in lotto tickets a day...I'm not sure.

_________________
Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

Ah see, common misconception.

When you're at the grocery store, you can actually eat healthy for less than you eat crappy. It just involves a little more in depth shopping.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

You show me how you can beat Ramen Noodles, Van!

well, okay. you can't beat ramen noodles.

but other than the sodium content of ramen, they're actually sort of good for you ;p

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I don't dislike welfare because of the size of people using it. I dislike it because too many people get comfortable using it and suck on the government's teat for too long.

I'm all for assistance, but with limits. People need to learn to support themselves at some point.

There is nothing about ramen that is "good" for you.

_________________

look at the nutritional information sometime. there's nothing unhealthy about it except for the sodium content (and drinking enough water will negate that) -- it actually has a lot of minerals that you need and don't get elsewhere, and it's protein is pretty good too.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

wow, just wow.

This is the best thread.

_________________

Some people I know actually don't even use their foodstamps/visioncard. They sell the use of the card for $.50 on the dollar.

1/2 price and no sales tax? Count me in.


Now I just need to start selling drugs and I can get my cash back too.

Do you really believe that or are you just fucking with me?

_________________

I’m not sure why some of you are treating this like such a scandalous idea/post. Here are my points:

1. Many Americans are overweight and obese. Statistically, that means that many Americans on welfare are overweight and obese.
2. Obesity is a national health problem, therefore a national money problem. (sick people can’t work or pay taxes)
3. Our tax dollars are contributing to the obesity problem by allowing people to buy whatever food they want.
4. Instead of allowing people on govt. assistance to buy food that is bad for them, why not limit their food purchases to healthier foods?

We already provide WIC to new and soon to be mothers, so it’s not like there isn’t a precedent. What is the problem with making a WIC like system for ALL forms of welfare?

The point of my original post – is still an unanswered question.

Why don’t we do this? Is there some problem with it that I'm not seeing?



Yeah...especially when you consider ramen noodles "good" for you. lol

I have eaten like shit, and eaten healthy, and healthy food is way more $ for amount of food / calories. I could go into some great detail on this, if you would like, but given your previous ramen posts, I don't think have any idea what is actually "good" for you.

_________________

That's great, but people don't need that many calories. Almost all pre-packaged/cheap food overshoots on calories and sodium by quite a bit.

Barring fast food, it is decidedly cheaper to eat healthy. Beans, chickpeas, lentils, vegetables, pasta and rice are all cheap. You just need to eat less meat, or only buy what is on sale. Or eat hot dogs. Or shop at the ethnic grocery stores; Indian and Korean especially.

While I think your heart is in the right place, I think you've taken a problem that is vastly complex and over-simplified it.

Your plans are attempting to solve the problems of a subset of a subset, but the end result is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I think the idea is a reasonable one, especially with healthcare reform around the corner (and the only two modifiers permitted insurance companies being age and smoker/nonsmoker status), but I have to wonder how far we want gov't. control of individual lives to go?

Pretty soon the thought police are going to come to your town and take your internet away.

Health care reform is not controlling your individual life. This is.

_________________

When a large number of people with very unhealthy habits are forced into my insurance pool, that I pay more to be in because I smoke, and my insurance rate rises because of it, well, I consider that gov't. action affecting individual life. How do you not?

Yay knee-jerk reaction on my part. My first post was not implying healthcare reform = government control. If you look back, I am absolutely a supporter of healthcare reform, in fact I favor a single-payor plan in order to remove profit from healthcare.

But frankly if we collectively are going to pay for healthcare then I do believe that those nasty little stares that I get for being a smoker should also be directed at the obese, the risk-takers, the alcoholics, the breeders who know they are passing down unhealthy genes, etc. because they individually will be raising healthcare costs for us collectively.

Someone find a doctor who will state that 'junk' food is unhealthy when eaten in moderation.

Reform welfare itself, not what you can do when you're on it.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

The intent is to provide subsistence, not Ding Dongs. There's nothing wrong with setting limits on the buying power of government aid. It's not being distributed to eat what they want, rather to keep them from starving/malnutrition.

I'd want to stay on Welfare forever because I'm an impulsive grocery buyer and if I'm losing weight for free without any self discipline....sign me up.

It's not a one dimensional problem.

Here are a number of variables off the top of my head (by no means comprehensive) which could potentially place undue burden upon people who are being assisted by welfare but are not fat fuckers like you seem to imply.
1) The definition of healthy food. Does healthy food have to be good for you or just not bad for you. Are skinny people restricted from buy a hot pocket or is it just fat people? What about people who are overweight yet still healthy (e.g. Dave Alexander)
2) The availability of this undefined healthy food to an individual. (Taking into account those with limited or severe transportation issues.)
3) The price healthy food in comparison to other foods. Not just in one place, but every place it is needed.
4) How much are they receiving in aid? It varies drastically, not not often realistically?
5) How much time do they have to prepare meals.
6) How much time does it take to prepare meals given available supplies?
7) Are they working one or more jobs? (Yes, it's still possible to be impoverished despite working day and night)
7a. Does the poverty line realistically represent the area they live in
Do they have dependents? How many?
9) Are they single parents?

With the occasional exception of a treat, I much prefer to eat healthy. It just tastes better. However, the rise of fast food wasn't because it was oh so yummy and delicious (though in many cases this is true) but because of the convenience (and price). For example: I love me some pizza. But I don't have the time to roll the dough and prepare the ingredients and cook it. I don't even have time to put a frozen pizza in the oven and let it cook for 25 minutes. I just got off work, I'm starving and I need something to eat before I crash because I have to wake up in 6 hours and haul my ass to school. I grab a hot-pocket and call it a night. If I was living on my own and qualified for food stamps (given my income and status as a student I could indeed qualify) I wouldn't have that option because some schmuck decided to tell me what is and is not healthy for me, like he had some fucking clue.

I call bullshit on this one.

I work 40+ hours a week and attend school full time, 4 nights in actual classroom a week. Did I mention I also have 7 horses and a 19 month old son who I have by myself 3 nights a week because my wife doesn't get home until after midnight those days?

Not being able to take 25 mins to cook yourself a meal is bullshit and anyone who is on welfare also probably has the time to cook themselves a simple meal. Most, not all, aren't working a full time job anyways.

Call bullshit all you want, you can go fuck yourself while you're at it. 3 days a week I get up at 7am. I get ready for school and go over homework and I'm out the door by 8:30. I have an hour commute to Cookeville. Classes start at 10 but parking is so fucked up I leave an extra half hour to find a space. I'm out of classes at 2:30, drive back to town and have about a half hour to do homework while in the parking lot waiting for work to start. I work 4-12. Shift ends, I wrap things up and drive home. Home by about 12:30 and I have to wind down, check bills, little bit of homework, brush teeth, sleep. Tue/Thur is the same except classes don't start till 12 so I actually manage to get a whole 8 hours of sleep!

I'm fortunate in that my work isn't very strenuous and I have relative free time between actual things to do so I can finish homework.

But you don't do this routine 7 days a week, do you?

Do what I do. Learn to cook small meals, in advance, for a week at a time. Keep them stored and labeled in the freezer and put them in the microwave for 5-6 minutes to heat them through.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I actually haven't had a hotpocket in years. I was using it as an example. I do prepare things on the weekend (For instance I have spanish rice and some taco soup in the freezer at the moment.) Though usually I'll just make a PB&J sammich or maybe bologna and cheese. Warm food too close to bed gives me heartburn.

But this tangent is really going off field. Time to prepare meals is only one variable among many.

That would be far too sensible Vanamar.

I am literally calling bullshit on your anecdote. Make up an example? On MY forums? Feh.

_________________

Peanut Butter on Whole Wheat
Banana or Apple or Watermelon or Cantelope
Heath or Twix or 5th Avenue Bar
Steamed Sweet Potato w/ sugar + cinamon + pat of butter
2 or 3 cans of corn, black beans, green beans
1 or 2 cubes of Ramen Noodles
Can of soup
Couple cans of Diet Dew
Salad, light dressing

That should be the mandatory daily welfare diet. Costs you about $20-$30 a week. You lose weight on it and your poop is nice and hard.

but ramen isn't healthy!

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Ramen is reasonably not unhealthy. Eating nothing but Ramen = Bad. Eating only 1 thing is generally bad. Using Ramen for a quick meal is OK.

Ramen is mostly refined flour and low quality oil with various low quality flavorings mixed in. So in general, it's not particularly healthy, but it's probably "better" than a Big Mac. I am guessing there are "healthy" versions of Ramen that use better ingredients, but I never looked for em.

Whole wheat pasta in an olive oil base with natural spices and ground lean meat would be a "healthy" version of Ramen. It also costs 3 times as much and takes 5 times longer to make and cleanup.

Thank you, Dr. Orme.

Realistically, this shit could never be regulated (what happens when a person on welfare is allergic to something that is "required"?) so why even bother pretending you can change the system? People buy shit they aren't "allowed" to buy with food stamps, you think they wouldn't find a way to do the same if they could only buy peanut butter and beans? But I said "realistically" and we all know that half of these conversations and/or debates almost never bring realism into the discussion.

Maybe we need a welfare Czar.

Not sure when refined (stripped of anything worth a shit) flour, deep fried (they are fried to remove water)and saturated with salt became “health food”.

If your meal has 30% of your daily calories 80% of your daily salt and 60% of your daily fat while providing 3% of your daily nutritional needs, you are not eating something “good” or even “reasonably healthy”.

Are there worse things to eat? Sure there are. That is shitty argument thoug.

Big Macs are better for you than Double whoppers therefore Big Macs = healthy.

_________________

When I was in Oregon, apparently people would use food stamps to buy cigarettes through recycling. They would buy sodas (and other beverages) in cans rater than bottles because you got more containers for the price and if I remember correctly, recycle centers (attached to every grocery store) payed out 10 cents a container cash (or was it 25? don't remember). Of course this was in 2001ish so smokes cost way less then too.

<pedant>Your nutritional facts on ramen are incorrect. </pedant>

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

WHOA WHOA WHOA didn't you see in the other thread where Czar = Hussein Obama in our pockets and the rise of Nazi Communism in Amerikkka?

_________________

I'm sure they are since I was guesstimating.

They are high in calorie, high in fat, high in sodium and low in nutritional value. The exact percentages, I have no idea about.

_________________

[[None of what follows is "my words", just copy pasta. Heh, pasta!!]]

http://www.ramenlicious.com/encyclopedi ... ition.html

Here are the nutritional informations found on the back of a common Ramen noodles package

85g. package - Daily Value

Fat 12g. - 18%
Saturated 6g. - 30%
Trans 0 g. - 0%
Cholesterol 0mg. - 0%
Sodium 1960mg. - 82%
Carbohydrate 54g. - 18%
Fibre 1g. - 4%
+ Sugars 6g.
Protein 8g.
Vitamin A - 0%
Vitamin C - 0%
Calcium 2%
Iron - 12%

What can we learn from these nutrition facts?
High in sodium:
First, ramen noodles are very high in sodium and that's pretty bad. Producers of almost all kind of food in North America now tend to put a lot of salt in their recipes, to make sure it's tasty and that consumers will buy the products. It sure might taste good, but our body don't react well to large income of sodium over a long period of time. So what is the solution? Well most of the salt in the noodle package comes from the soup base. Even if it taste good, we really recommand not to add that soup base to your noodles, instead, why not take a look in our recipes section, for healthier and delicious recipes!

Monosodium Glutamate:
What can that be and why is it in my noodles? Glutamate is a flavour enhancer present in most instant-noodles packages, but only in the soup base. The additive has raised many health concerns, for obesity, high tension, nausea and many other problems. This is why we suggest, again, not to use the soup base in the package.

Conclusion: Great, without the soup base
Other then that, we can say that like other kind of pasta, ramen noodles nutrition facts are pretty good and can be part of great complete meals

_________________
"People sometimes say that ideas cannot be stamped out by force. The Albigensian Crusade proves them wrong. Ideas can be stamped out by the elimination of everyone who holds the ideas." - Quote :"Middle Ages" by Morris Bishop.

So like, boil the noodles and skip the flavor adder. And eat with something else and its healthy?

_________________
"People sometimes say that ideas cannot be stamped out by force. The Albigensian Crusade proves them wrong. Ideas can be stamped out by the elimination of everyone who holds the ideas." - Quote :"Middle Ages" by Morris Bishop.

Taking soda off as an available item for food stamps would be a big start.

It's too bad most of you ignored Bz's post describing a little of the many variables involved in this discussion.



A quick comment on this one: this is a bigger factor than some of you may realize. People on welfare are the same people least likely to have a vehicle. If they live in a town like mine, there is no full grocery store until you drive 15 miles to the next townover . People on welfare in my town without a vehicle are limited to the gas station and a dollar store.

There are towns like mine all over Indiana. I'm sure it's not the only state with such towns.

Maybe they don't have a car, but surely a friend does, and a friend surely wouldn't mind taking the time to drive them to a grocery store.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Maybe they should move to a town that is not crumbling around them.

So like, you are still getting empty carbs, and a shitton of fat. Not to mention about 400 calories for one pack (there are 2 servings per pack) So why eat them at all? They are junk food. Plain and simple. High calories, high fat, high sodium, low nutritional value... Isn't that the definition of junk food? They really aren't much different than a potato chip.

I didn’t ignore Bz’s post, there are some good points, but I need to dedicate more time to the response than what I have had. I didn’t really find any of his arguments particularly compelling except maybe food availability.
We can easily asses nutritional value of food, so that argument has no merit. Time to prep food also has no merit, neither does the amount of children or if they are single or not. And the pizza argument is retarded. It takes all of 45 seconds combined to turn on the oven, open the pizza, place the pizza in the oven and set the timer. If you don’t have 45 seconds to prepare your food, you are the busiest man on the planet. It takes longer to eat a frozen pizza than it does to cook it.

_________________

Welfare is too easy to get in Canada and there are people in my town that are professionals at it.

Some of these people work on the side for cash doing odd stuff while claiming welfare or disability.

Some just keep getting knocked up, the more kids you have, the more cash you get.

They have cell phones, cars, get cheap subsidized goverment housing, satellite TV. Most of them are chain smokers and some drink heavy or eat at restaurants around the clock.

These people are quite content with there standard of living.

I believe in welfare for those that truly deserve it, but around here it seems to be abused more than anything else and should just be ditched all together.

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

No problem champ. I assume people can read the back of packaging, but general fail. It's my pleasure sharing with the less informed.

That's the real trick. People will always find ways around.

I am not sure how it works now, but when I was 16 and working as a checker in the grocery store, a girl I went to school came in with a $10 food stamp and bought a $0.25 pack of gum. I gave her 9 food stamp singles and $0.75 change. She then proceeded to make 9 more transactions, buying $0.25 packs of gum. Viola - 75 cents on the dollar and a week's supply of Juicy Fruit.

Just curious, do any of the welfare haters actually know anyone on welfare. It seems like the lifestyle is always heralded as this fantastic, work-free way of life. I guess I have always assumed it wasn't all that great. I worked in Arkansas one summer and the poverty there was pretty depressing. Hardly a bunch of people going to Applebees every night.

Our restaurants around here consist of coffee shops and greasy spoons, we have nothing fancy like applebees.

In a small town everyone knows everyone, so I say yeah I know the welfare folks.

One girl about 22 just had her second baby, and she actually tells people she just needs one more to be set for welfare.

Welfare people here know how to work the system, part of your welfare is money for housing, of course if you are living with someone else, they take away that part. So around here you will always see welfare people renting two apartments, even though they only live in one.

As soon as there kids are old enough, they get there own apartment too, even if they are not living in it. Our local slumlords love this system.

For the most part, they are a lazy lot, that are quite capable of doing work, but the system lets them get away with having to do anything.

_________________
Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

But that's a horrible sample. The only people going to restauraunts while on welfare would be the ones abusing it, wouldn't it? What about the others who don't go out to eat?