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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:06 PM 
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Umm.. what the hell is going on here?


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This was filmed at the B. Bernice Young Elementary School in Burlington, NJ and uploaded on June 19, 2009.

Lyrics
========
Song 1:
Mm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that all must lend a hand
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said we must be fair today
Equal work means equal pay
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said that we must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mm!
Barack Hussein Obama

Yes!
Mmm, mmm, mm
Barack Hussein Obama

Song 2:
Hello, Mr. President we honor you today!
For all your great accomplishments, we all doth say "hooray!"

Hooray, Mr. President! You're number one!
The first black American to lead this great nation!

Hooray, Mr. President we honor your great plans
To make this country's economy number one again!

Hooray Mr. President, we're really proud of you!
And we stand for all Americans under the great Red, White, and Blue!

So continue ---- Mr. President we know you'll do the trick
So here's a hearty hip-hooray ----

Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!
Hip, hip hooray!



Mommy, I am scared.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:34 PM 
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:37 AM 
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Here is the story on it.

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Review Ordered of Video Showing Students Singing Praises of President Obama(Link)
Nearly 20 young children are captured in an online video as they sing songs that overflow with campaign slogans and praise for "Barack Hussein Obama," as they repeatedly chant the president's name and celebrate his accomplishments.

The commissioner of New Jersey's Department of Education ordered a review on Friday following the posting of a YouTube video depicting school children singing the praises of President Obama.

In a statement to FOXNews.com, Education Department spokeswoman Beth Auerswald said Commissioner Lucille Davy has directed the school's superintendent to review the matter. Auerswald said Davy wants to ensure that students can celebrate Black History Month without "inappropriate partisan politics in the classroom."

"In addition, it is our understanding the teacher in question retired at the end of the last school year," the statement continued.

Auerswald declined to indicate exactly what the review would entail or possible ramifications.

As critics of the video claimed it amounted to "indoctrination," the tension at B. Bernice Young Elementary School escalated to such a degree Thursday that the school was placed temporarily on lockdown after its principal received death threats over a YouTube video that showed nearly 20 children being taught songs lauding the president, though back-to-school night events continuing as planned Thursday night at the school.

Video of the students at the Burlington, N.J., school shows them singing songs seemingly overflowing with campaign slogans and praise for "Barack Hussein Obama," repeatedly chanting the president's name and celebrating his accomplishments, including his "great plans" to "make this country's economy No. 1 again."

One song that the children were taught quotes directly from the spiritual "Jesus Loves the Little Children," though Jesus' name is replaced with Obama's: "He said red, yellow, black or white/All are equal in his sight. Barack Hussein Obama."

The video has set off some families in Burlington, who said they were horrified that their children at the being "indoctrinated" to view the president like a cult figure.

"I'm stunned -- I can't believe it's our school," said Jim Pronchik, who told FOXNews.com his 8-year-old son Jimmy was one of the 18 students in the video. "We don't want to praise this guy like he's a god or an idol or a king or anything like that. That's the wrong message to be sending."

Pronchik said he and his wife were never informed about the lesson, which the superintendent of Burlington Township schools says was held in February as part of Black History Month "to honor the contributions of African Americans to our country."

But Andrea Ciemnolonski, the parent of another one of the students in the video, said the song was part of a second-grade project on a variety of topics related to the month of February, such as Groundhog Day, Valentine's Day and Presidents Day.

"They did songs about President Washington, Lincoln, and they did do one about President Obama," Ciemnolonski said. "My daughter was in the class that did the songs about Obama. It was black history month. ... It was something for the kids to celebrate."

Ciemnolonski said she "just can't look at it as indoctrination," though she added, "The comparisons made were a little exuberant."

Superintendent Christopher Manno said in a written statement Thursday that the taping itself was out of order, but failed to address whether the lesson was approved. "The recording and distribution of the class activity were unauthorized," he wrote in a note to parents and the media.

Other families arriving at Bernice Young Elementary to pick up their children said they were outraged at the songs, which also tout a fair-pay bill Obama signed in January: "He said we must be clear today/Equal work means equal pay."

"I felt this was reminiscent of 1930s Germany, and the indoctrination of children to worship their leader," said Robert Bowen, father of two children at Bernice Young Elementary.

"I thought that if this was a civics class in say high school or upper level middle school, in might be appropriate to discuss policies or politics, but as far as children in first grade, second grade -- those types of levels -- it's inappropriate to discuss how a president is changing the world after only six weeks in office."

Parents said the songs were performed in Elvira James' second grade class. James, who refused to comment to FOXNews.com, retired at the end of the previous school year on a full pension in New Jersey.

Bowen said he thought there should be consequences for having provided such a one-sided lesson to impressionable students there.

"It's something that there should be serious repercussions for ... the administration here, and I think the school board needs to be answerable to the parents of the community," said Bowen. School board members did not respond to requests for comment.

Though the school was not planning to address the tape during back-to-school-night events, many parents were heading in with with a lot of questions about the tape.

"This video is disturbing," said a grandparent named Sandy, who spoke on the condition that her last name not be included. "We don't teach politics in pre-school -- or kindergarten or first grade."

"This has no place in the classroom," said Sandy, added Sandy, who told FOXNews.com she has two grandchildren attending Bernice Young Elementary. "It may have been the opinion of one or two, and someone should pay the consequences for it."

The author of the songs is unknown, but a woman -- possibly a teacher -- can be heard in the beginning of the video correcting and helping a student who has forgotten the words. Another woman, the person holding the camera, cheers the students on: "All right," she says. "I like that."

"Alteredbeat," the YouTube user who posted the video on the Internet, told FOXNews.com that the video was first put online by Charisse Carney-Nunes, an activist and author of the children's book "I Am Barack Obama," which her Web site says "allows children to see themselves through the inspirational story of President Obama." Carney-Nunes has been promoting the book during visits to schools on the east coast.

A poster for the book can been seen near the stage of the auditorium in the video of Bernice Young Elementary, but it is unclear whether Carney-Nunes had visited the school or was present during the filming.

"Alteredbeat" told FOXNews.com that he reached out to Carney-Nunes, who insisted that the program had been filmed in June as part of a Father's Day tribute to President Obama. "The kids made up the songs on their own," she wrote, according to the YouTube user.

"Alteredbeat" originally posted the video Sept. 6, two days before Obama made an address to the nation's schoolchildren in which he praised the American education system as the best in the world and urged students to stay in school.

"At the end of the day, we can have the most dedicated teachers, the most supportive parents, and the best schools in the world," Obama said.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:42 PM 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:50 AM 
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I'm pretty sure we didn't chant his name, but when I was in school it was totally OK for the kids to be told, "Hey, this is the President. He's pretty cool. We should respect him." and whatnot.

All people want to do is hate anymore. =(


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:26 PM 
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"I felt this was reminiscent of 1930s Germany, and the indoctrination of children to worship their leader," said Robert Bowen, father of two children at Bernice Young Elementary.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:15 PM 
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deja vu ;> http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/17/katrina-song/
Good opportunity though to invoke godwin's law again!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:31 PM 
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We sang about our founding fathers and pretty epic class presidents ie: Lincoln. Singing about a president who's greatest accomplishment thus far is being elected seems kinda fanboi-ish.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:17 PM 
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Heh, think this is bad, you should hear me explain to my daughter why the Pledge of Allegiance is fucking retarded propaganda (which it is). Granted I leave the choice to her, but I want her to be informed on the REAL principles upon which this country was founded - even the ugly ones. But in this case, the founding fathers (most at least) would have choked at hearing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:29 PM 
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I don't see what's wrong with the Pledge. Even as a die-hard atheist I don't even care about the "Under God" part all that much.

I mean, what's in the Pledge that's objectionable? Even if the nation was founded on "ugly" ideals, what's wrong with exalting better ideals today?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:35 PM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
I don't see what's wrong with the Pledge. Even as a die-hard atheist I don't even care about the "Under God" part all that much.

I mean, what's in the Pledge that's objectionable? Even if the nation was founded on "ugly" ideals, what's wrong with exalting better ideals today?


The fact that you're pledging allegiance to ANYTHING beyond the set of ideals set forth in the constitution is appalling to me. That's not what the pledge is intended to do however, regardless of how vague and innocuous it seems. It's nationalistic bullshit - very much in same way a flag ribbon on your bumper is "patriotic".


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:39 PM 
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Plus, it has zero meaning. We recited the words without a single iota of understanding of what we were actually saying.

You can make a kid memorize shakespeare, but they won't understand it until they are an adult, so it has no real value until that point.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:34 PM 
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Quote:
Plus, it has zero meaning. We recited the words without a single iota of understanding of what we were actually saying.


I dunno, maybe other people had poor vocabulary but the words made sense to me as a kid.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:38 PM 
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I dunno Rugen, I think you have to be a horny teenager to understand Romeo and Juliet. Any adult decide "eh, there will be easier sex to score than this" :>


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:35 PM 
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Quote:
I dunno, maybe other people had poor vocabulary but the words made sense to me as a kid.


I'm sure your intense intellect gave you a full understanding of what you were actually swearing in kindergarten and 1st grade.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

Knowing the words and knowing what the intent of them are happen to be two entirely different things. Most kids can recite the pledge from memory, but have little comprehension of what they are actually saying. It has no meaning.

Catholics follow the same system. Train the kids to recite the whole setup from memory even though they don't truly understand what they are saying/doing, because it is easier to retain people through sheer habit than it is to leave it until adulthood when they can think for themselves and can analyze the system. Someone is far more likely to remain with something they've learned in childhood because it is "comfortable" and "just the way it is".

But as someone with such a large vocabulary, I'm sure you are familiar with the word "indoctrination".

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:07 PM 
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Maybe when I was a kid people tried to explain things to children rather than the blind hate and closed-mindedness that seems to be rampant today.

Maybe a child that young won't understand every aspect of civil rights struggles or other injustices, but simple phrases like "liberty and justice for all" and "one nation indivisible" are pretty easy.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:10 PM 
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Quote:
because it is easier to retain people through sheer habit than it is to leave it until adulthood when they can think for themselves and can analyze the system. Someone is far more likely to remain with something they've learned in childhood because it is "comfortable" and "just the way it is".


I guess the flip side to that would be mindlessly hating the same thing for reasons that you're not entirely sure of, either, but just because it's easier to keep hating it because its "comfortable" and "just the way it is".

Do you look at other things we teach children as equally nefarious simply because they might not understand every aspect of it? Should we just wait until kids are teenagers before we offer any moral guidance?

Really, why so much hate against the pledge? What's the big deal about it? It's really simple, it has admirable messages


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:13 PM 
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Crap, I didn't finish that post.

Oh well, the idea got across. Just stick a period after "messages".


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:23 PM 
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I guess the flip side to that would be mindlessly hating the same thing for reasons that you're not entirely sure of, either, but just because it's easier to keep hating it because its "comfortable" and "just the way it is".


And the mistake you'd make here is that I'm entirely sure of my reasons, having been raised roman catholic. I know the song and dance. I know the routine. And I know all the sermons. So my dislike of that particular organized religion is well researched and has very valid reasons. So we'll just set that aside for now as a desperate barb.

Additionally, the rest of your argument falls apart. TEACHING kids is one thing. Making them memorize words they don't understand and "pledge their allegiance". For much the same reason kids can't sign contracts.

The difference between education and indoctrination is that in one, you're encouraged to ask questions and learn. In the other you're just expected to obey without question.

I have issue with the latter, no matter how "noble" the intent.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:25 PM 
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Making them memorize words they don't understand and "pledge their allegiance".


"...is another."

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:52 AM 
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Quote:
And the mistake you'd make here is that I'm entirely sure of my reasons, having been raised roman catholic. I know the song and dance. I know the routine. And I know all the sermons. So my dislike of that particular organized religion is well researched and has very valid reasons. So we'll just set that aside for now as a desperate barb.


Um, I wasn't even talking about the religious stuff. You're the only one that's brought that up.

Quote:
Additionally, the rest of your argument falls apart. TEACHING kids is one thing. Making them memorize words they don't understand and "pledge their allegiance". For much the same reason kids can't sign contracts.


And like I said, maybe in my school people took the time to explain what it all meant. The Pledge isn't calculus or something, it's not hard to teach even a first grader what the basic concepts mean. Your assumption that somehow the kids are too stupid to get any of it is just silly.

Quote:
The difference between education and indoctrination is that in one, you're encouraged to ask questions and learn. In the other you're just expected to obey without question.


Again, maybe we lived in different worlds. I wasn't expected to "obey without question". As I said before, things were explained when I was a kid, maybe you didn't have that luxury. So yes, we were encouraged to learn.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:08 AM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
Again, maybe we lived in different worlds. I wasn't expected to "obey without question". As I said before, things were explained when I was a kid, maybe you didn't have that luxury. So yes, we were encouraged to learn.


You were encouraged to explore the founding documents and constitutions of other countries and choose the one you wanted to become a citizen of? Given the option of not participating in the Pledge?

I went to school with an extended family whose belief system disallowed participating in the Pledge. They would leave the classroom in elementary and middle school and in high school the sat silently. BUT, neither they nor we were ever given any option in the classroom. In fact, I can distinctly recall children being sent to the office because they chatted or did other stuff during the Pledge.

I don't have any issue with citizens being encouraged to embrace nationalism but I have always been bothered by the idea of being forced to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:15 AM 
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Kulamiena wrote:
I don't have any issue with citizens being encouraged to embrace nationalism but I have always been bothered by the idea of being forced to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth.

Wait, what?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:24 AM 
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Quote:
You were encouraged to explore the founding documents and constitutions of other countries and choose the one you wanted to become a citizen of? Given the option of not participating in the Pledge?


Oh for fucks sake, now you're trying too hard. Yeah, those damn kids, not researching different nations and picking their favorite one and telling the US to suck it before moving off to live there, instead just living here in the one they were born in. Damn, what a bunch of sheep. Wake up, sheeple!!!!

...jeez.

And yes, in many classes we had the option of not participating. Yeah, if we were "chatting or doing other things" like you described we'd probably get in trouble, just like we'd get in trouble if we were "chatting or doing other things" in the middle of any other class activity that the teacher was focused on. That's nothing special, sir.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:49 AM 
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The pledge is *never* forced, as far as I know.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:01 AM 
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it was in my high school.

I always just omitted the "under god" part.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:21 AM 
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Seriously? "Wake up, sheeple!!!"? You're never going to get the point of what folks are trying to say here.

Personally, based on your past posts, I find your stance thoroughly amusing.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:44 AM 
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The "wake up, sheeple!" was part of the sarcasm of that sentence. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

And no, I'm not getting the points that some people are making. That's why I'm continuing to post about it, because it genuinely confuses me. It seems a lot like the people freaking out because Obama wanted to address schools...something that people want to bitch about but don't have a particularly good reason for.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:36 AM 
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Vana, I seriously doubt that it was actually required. If you simply stood but didn't say anything at all, you wouldn't have gotten in any trouble.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:07 AM 
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Several kids did get in trouble, I was one of them until I finally decided to just omit what offended me about the pledge =P

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:55 AM 
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Fribur wrote:
Vana, I seriously doubt that it was actually required. If you simply stood but didn't say anything at all, you wouldn't have gotten in any trouble.


Such was also the case in two of the schools I attended. One in Hawaii, and the other in Virginia.

You got detention for not standing/saying the pledge. It took some serious parent/teacher conferences for them to stop giving detention for omitting "under god" at one of these schools. The other one shrugged it off.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:20 PM 
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Interesting. I've always been under the impression that there are court precidents (sp?) that require it to be optional, if that makes any sense. It's also possible that these schools simply don't know.

I know it's optional here, although generally all the students do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:04 PM 
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Well it has been a while since school. This was '87-'92 when my experiences happened (roughly).

Also, remember that optional doesn't mean optional to kids. Optional usually means standing out and being different.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:57 PM 
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Also, remember that optional doesn't mean optional to kids. Optional usually means standing out and being different.


It only means that when the parents are jackasses and think that their kids have to totally remove themselves from the thing in question.

I had some kids in my 5th and 6th grade class that were some other religion (I want to say Jewish today, but I know that's not it.) that apparently prohibited them from doing anything holiday-related...and rather than just quietly decline, they said their parents demanded they exit the classroom and sit outside while we did anything.

Same with the Pledge...nothing is keeping a kid from just not saying it. If they're gonna be the sort that has to flee the classroom or something every time, that's not the schools fault.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:24 PM 
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Also, remember that optional doesn't mean optional to kids. Optional usually means standing out and being different.


True to some extent, but every year when I led it, I would start the year by pointing out that they didn't have to say if if they didn't want to, and that if they didn't want to look "weird," they could just stand and be respectful of others without saying anything.

The fact that I myself don't say the pledge might help; I'm fairly popular with the kids. 99% of the time though, the kids don't really care one way or the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:32 AM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
I had some kids in my 5th and 6th grade class that were some other religion (I want to say Jewish today, but I know that's not it.) that apparently prohibited them from doing anything holiday-related...and rather than just quietly decline, they said their parents demanded they exit the classroom and sit outside while we did anything.


Jehovah's Witnesses actually on that count, and to a degree, they're justified on that count. Frankly, national holidays annoy the piss out of me to an extent, but that's another matter entirely ;P

Bovinity Divinity wrote:
Same with the Pledge...nothing is keeping a kid from just not saying it. If they're gonna be the sort that has to flee the classroom or something every time, that's not the schools fault.


Actually, it is. As it stands now, it's an endorsement of religion (the belief in any God is) and so long as the school is publicly funded, and attendance is mandatory it MUST accommodate those kids. In and of itself, it's not a big deal to me, but in the bigger picture, it really is. I won't allow my kid to be indoctrinated by all of those smaller pieces (be it religion or nationalism).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:32 PM 
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Indoctrinated, jeez. I keep hearing this word, but where are the parents in all this? I'm not sure how the pledge accomplishes that. What does it "indoctrinate" them with? A flag fetish?

Of course, you guys claim the kids don't even understand, so if that's true I'm not sure how it indoctrinates them to anything other than talking to a flag in the morning.

In either care, surely a little parental guidance is sufficient to stave off a terrible future in which waves of young flag-fetishists take over the nation.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:43 PM 
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the problem is that there's little to no parental guidance, or at least that's what the media and many schools (at least in Georgia) would have you believe.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:48 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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It's easier to tell the world to stop doing things you don't like rather than talk to kids about it, apparently.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:10 PM 
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I miss the days when nobody gave two fucks about silly bullshit like this and we just said the thing before roll every morning.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:52 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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Yeah, but now we're all indoctrinated with crazy flag-loving, god-worshiping madness and never had the chance to decide if we wanted to pledge allegiance to France instead, Givin.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:45 PM 
For the old school!
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We actually didn't use to do this at all is the thing. We got along fine previously without it. Nationalism is a slow burn and a quick flash. Sorry if I'm very opinionated about, but I've seen firsthand what it can do to a country. Say I'm overreacting, and in all honesty, I have no issue talking to my kid about this shit when she asks. I just don't think it should be necessary to do so /shrug.

Take from it what you will. You're an adult and interested in dialogue since you're on this forum. Well, I'm sure of the latter half at least.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:49 PM 
Froaaak!!!
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Yeah, but now we're all indoctrinated with crazy flag-loving, god-worshiping madness


Haven't watched/listened to the news lately have you?

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