Story Source: http://www.fresnobee.com/263/story/1570067.html

Jist: Son puts up flag for dad just before he's deployed. Dad says he'll keep it flying until son returns. Flag quickly degrades, it's dirty and shredded.

People go batshit about it. Dad explains why he hasn't replaced it. Some understand...some don't.
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My opinion? He has a good reason, and it's his property. STFU. Plus the guy served for 22 years in the military, including in time of war (the guy flying the flag)...so again, stfu. This guy has done more to preserve the right of Americans to fly a goddamned flag than probably most of the whiners. This story just bugs the shit out of me because it's just shocking that people feel they have such a right to tell other people what to do.

I mean I could understand someone stopping and asking about it. That I get, I know it truly bothers a lot of people to see a flag in such poor shape, especially with people who just fly them as decoration. But once you know? Then stfu.

I hope his son returns safely.

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I dunno...I mean, he could just replace it. I get that it's a heartwarming reason and all that he's leaving it up, but...well, that's still not really a free pass to do what many consider to being equivalent to just spitting on the thing.

Guess I can see both sides of it.

What's more important: the flag, or a promise made to the soldier defending that flag?

Simple as that. Anyone who says the flag is more important doesn't understand the meaning of it.

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I don't see how it's equiv to spitting on it. It would be one thing to mentally *neglect* the flag and not clean it off or replace it. But he's doing it for a specific reason which has nothing to do with neglect.

And frankly I like his reasoning. If it symbolizes anything, it's that we(or at the very least he) hold true to our promises even through the tough times.

Fucking homeowner's associations. Willing to bet that is how the harrasment of this guy started.

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In the story you linked, all the guys that were upset about it were also military or ex-military. And it didn't seem like they were "telling him what to do" so much as the condition of the flag just made them very emotional and they felt very strongly about it.

Also, on this note, they DO have the right to voice their opinion and express that they think he should take it down. They can't make him take it down, but they do have the right to - as you put it - "tell him what to do".

Or, to split hairs, "tell him what they think he should do."

I don't understand why he'd just leave it up there, instead of taking it down at night and actually caring for it. Doesn't take much effort to keep a flag from falling apart; it's likely in bad shape from being rained on. If it were me, I'd rather come home to see the flag as I left it; not a multi-colored party streamer. It's a little weird, but people are allowed to be weird.

Yeah and that's why I'm not really taking any side here, just saying that I can see where both sides are coming from. If he really wants to let it sit there and rot, that's his business. On the other hand, I can see why other people - especially military folks who gave a lot for their country - would be upset at the sight.

My grandfather was a real stickler about the flag. He was severely and permanently disabled during his time in the Navy, and I guess after giving so much one would HAVE to take that kind of stuff seriously.

But yeah, I really can't take either side here, so I guess then it just falls down to what he's allowed to do, which is whatever he wants.

this is a case where these people just need to be told one thing

mind your own fucking business

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Jake Rivers - Senex Legio
Get off my Lawn alliance

I get it but i disagree... Id be curious to hear the sons take on the matter...

If i was overseas and my mom did the same thing id tell her to replace the flag, because it is pretty disrespectful. I thought 'maybe its just kinda tattered', but taking a look at the picture shows that flag is beyond disrepair, its really bad, when its ripped like that it is a sad thing...

But im not going to get all angry about it or say this lady is wrong, its just sad IMO on both accounts(flag and son/mother)...

The flag alone means a lot more than people realize to many service members. Id guess that the people asking it be replaced aren't dishonoring the son, but the opposite....

Again, id be really curious to hear the sons take on the matter.

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My sig got eated by the bit bucket...
Fellenwhite Moonsong
Sixty-Something drunken freak of Lanys
Formerly known as:
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75 Gnomish Puppy kicker

I couldn't agree with this more. And it's not just a promise to a solider, but also a son.

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Does he have a legal right? Is it an HOA complaining? If so he is wrong legally. He signed a contract giving up his rights on his own property when he bought the place. He could fly it indoors....

I wouldn't be surprised if there were an actual law against flying a tattered flag.

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from the article:

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reading is for pussies

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It's not like he didn't know the shit he was going to get by leaving the flag out to rot.

As for which is more important, flag or promise, neither is inherently more important than the other. It takes a special kind of stupid though to make a promise like that and not expect a lot of people with strong feelings about it to come knocking on your door to tell you what they think.

If I were in the son's shoes, I'd be pissed as hell. You don't treat so carelessly something that is representative of what I volunteered to give my life to protect and expect me to be anything other than angry. The fact that you made the same oath doesn't make it ok.

So, apparently Devyn finds the flag itself to be more important than the promise made. Got it.

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You're an idiot. No where did I even hint that one was more important than the other. As a matter of fact, I said...


The fact that I'd be pissed that the promise was even made to me is not indicative of either the flag or promise being more important. It is indicative of the fact that I would find it abhorrent to be placed into a situation where I have to either hope for you to desecrate something I hold dear or to break a promise to me.

Just to challenge you on the idea that neither is more important than the other, if you were a soldier in combat, would you tear a flag apart to bandage a wounded ally if was no other material was available and he would be at serious risk if you refused?

"Desecrate." I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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So you'd be pissed at your parents for doing something was not ill intentioned? That's kind of shitty.

Somehow I don't see the son coming back from the war and being all, "WHAT THE FUCK DAD! HOW COULD YOU KEEP THAT PROMISE AFTER LOOKING AT THE FLAG'S CONDITION?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUUU?!"

Especially after all the shit the dad is getting from people who can't mind their own businesses. But, you never know! =P

Little Johnny always cuts his father's yard.
Little Johnny is going in for routine surgery and he tells his dad he's afraid.
Dad says, "Nothing will happen to you. If something did, who'd cut my lawn?"
Little Johnny says, "you promise me I can cut it when I get out of the hospital?"
Dad says, "I promise you nobody will ever cut that lawn except for you."
Little Johnny dies horribly during the routine surgery.
Dad never cuts his lawn again because of a "promise made to his son."
Neighborhood is in an uproar and demands he cut his lawn.
He refuses.

Is this really that different? My opinion:
Neat story about your son, but cut the fucking yard.
Neat story about your son, but get a new fucking flag.

I don't think it is quite the same. But, okay.

I don't really see how this situation relates to how important a promise is in comparison to the flag. To answer your question though, I'd piss on a flag, break an untold number of promises and slap my Dad across the face if it means the chance to save a wounded ally. I doubt you'd find anyone who'd take a different stance on that particular matter.

2 : to treat disrespectfully, irreverently, or outrageously

Only if they did it knowing my feelings on the matter, which all of my family and friends do. I don't know the family in the story, and I don't know the son's stance on the subject or whether or not his parents are aware of that stance. I have no opinion on how the son should react, only on how I would react if the same were to happen to me.

I don't see how being angry at someone who deliberately does something they know is going to piss you off is inappropriate, even if they're your parents and even if they did it with your best interests at heart.

Devyn: You're right. Looks like I completely misunderstood. Sorry about that. I thought you were comparing the welfare of the soldier to the welfare of the flag.

Why? Because the kid is representing the country so it means more than the kid who's not?

Nah, not that. I don't think having an uncut lawn is quite the same as having a ruined flag flying on your front yard. ;P

honestly, I'd be more offended by a ruined flag, regardless of the reason, than an uncut lawn.

There are rules to displaying the american flag. One of those rules is to not fly a flag that is not in good repair, and to take it down in inclement weather.

If the flag is fubar, it's because the rules to flying the flag were not followed.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

It was probably made in china anyway. Who cares.

What Would Hulk Do?

That reminds me of:

Oh, crap. =(