http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/03/ ... index.html

To make a long story short, over the course of several years two women claim that a judge they worked for repeatedly sexually assaulted them. Groping, kissing, and worse. For years.

What the fuck is wrong with these women? Why didn't they, after the very first time, speak up? Why didn't they just fucking QUIT THE JOB? I genuinely don't get what the hell was going through these weak little bitches' minds. "I'll be fired" is enough to put up with a man sexually assaulting you on a regular basis? Both of them should be fucking harshly reprimanded for their utter stupidity in putting up with this guy for as long as they did.

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Wow. You don't have an ounce of empathy in your body, do you?

I have no sympathy or empathy for people who allow their mistreatment to continue when they have the power to do something about it.

Some people are born to be victims, other people are made into victims. Guess which type that I can actually empathize with.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

How do any people in smallish communities get away with abusing power? Through fear. Note that the courthouse guards apparently knew what was going on and never stopped it, either. That helps to create an environment where the abuse becomes normative.

Galveston is a small place. I have no idea what these women's stories are, but there are likely reasons why they and their families live and stay there. And having one member of your family get the wrong side of the people in power, whether justifiable or not, can have a negative effect on your entire family.

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Hope is the new black.

Newsflash: Galveston, TX is not that small. It is about a 30-40 min drive to downtown Houston. Downtown Galveston is closer to downtown Houston than I am to Downtown Dallas.

It's got around 60K people year round. And it is an island community, which tends to create a level of insularity.

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Hope is the new black.

Still call me an ass or whatever, but I somewhat agree with Tyral on this. I have little sympathy for people that continually allow bad things to happen to them.

Those situations are never as straightforward as they sound.

I'm curious to know what the true impetus was to their coming forward.

Lots of people will endure abuse to keep a decent paying job, only coming forward and crying victim when it becomes convenient to do so.

Thank God you have a reason to feel morally superior for Thursday, June 4th.

Let's be honest - they were probably asking for it.

The Judge should be strung up for abusing his power like that though.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I bet they wore mini skirts to work.

Probably too much makeup. Everyone knows that lipstick means you really want it.

There's a difference between saying "they asked for it," which I'm not, and saying "they should have done something about it," which I am. These are adults we're talking about. Grown women who should have done something about it. Galveston isn't so small that this judge had his fingers in every pie. I realize that some of you who are used to living in large cities don't realize it, but 60,000 people is a lot of fucking people. This isn't Mayberry. It's not like quitting the jobs would have ruined any chance of finding a new one.


That's not what I got from reading the report. This judge said he didn't care if the guards heard, it doesn't mean they did hear or had any idea what was going on. Regardless, so what? Even if they knew, does that mean these women couldn't quit? Why wait so fucking long to handle this? It's pathetic.

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Yeah, you can leave the strawmen at home, guys. I didn't see anyone say they deserved it. The question is - if it was THAT bad, and went on for THAT long - why didn't they do something?

There's a word for someone that puts up with that kind of sexual conduct so long as they're getting paid money for it.

Uhh. You just said no one said they deserved it, then compared them to prostitutes.

That's right, I didn't say they deserved it. Good job!

But yes, if you're going to stand around and let a man violate you sexually for YEARS and do nothing about it as long as you're getting paid money at your job for it, there's something wrong, and yes I do look down on it.

That said, the guy is an asshole too and needs to be kicked around by a large man in prison looking to violate him, too.

Yes, it's hard to believe any woman would have difficulty coming forward...

0_o

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I was expecting an interesting anecdote to shed some light on the situation, not a one-liner!

You're slipping.

And besides, it's not just "coming forward"...I could understand if it happened 5 years ago and they just worked up the courage to "come forward". It's the fact that they stayed there, for YEARS, and just continued to come in to work every day for some reason and take it.

You really have no idea what the circumstances are, because they haven't been disclosed. Years of sexual misconduct doesn't mean the two people who came forward were assaulted daily for years.

Until I know the circumstances...how can I have an opinion on it? How can anyone? Oh wait...that's an informed opinion. Silly me.

Please resume your enlightening discourse on the coorelation between prostitution and women sexually assaulted in the workplace.

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I'm just loving this after getting lectured on how I need to be more like Christ from Tyral "weak little bitches" the Kithless.

Tyral does not claim to be Christian.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Indeed. I'm just someone who thinks that hypocrisy should be noted and mocked.

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So her first five days on the job it started. Add to that "even worse" things once or twice a month. AND on top of that "worse"(!!) things beyond that.

And that went on seven years.

I don't know. Something's just wrong with that. Question: Would she have endured it had she not been being paid?

Hmm. Perhaps a pre-question to your question. Why the FUCK would she even be there if she weren't being paid?

Hey, how about this question.

Would there be any workplace sexual assaults if people were not being paid to be there?

Right. Just highly qualified to toss out judgments about how to be one.

If you claim to be Christian, then make the statements you made in that other thread, your damn right any of us can point out the massive inconsistency in your life. Trying to turn it around on Tyral who doesn't make any such claim doesn't make any sense.

None of that is relevant, sir.

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy in someone judging another's moral standards when they're posting what he does right here, Fribur.

That's not hypocracy.

Let me first say that I totally disagree with Vana and Tyral here. I think they are being assholes, frankly, and need to figure out what "empathy" is.

That said, I don't see this hypocrisy you speak of at all. I can't even really understand what you mean by it. Tyral has made no claim to a specific moral standard-- he can say whatever he wishes about this situation and not be hypocritical about it. You, on the other hand, have done so, and that will always open you (and anyone else that makes such claims) up to criticism.

I know what empathy is. I don't typically feel it, and I especially don't feel it for people who suffer for years but have a means of ending that suffering and are just too weak-willed to take it.

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Well, sure it is. Religion is interpretive and subjective. You can't judge someone on their religion without injecting a healthy dose of your own morality, whether explicitly stated or not.

But to make you happy, I'll restate myself: Tyral, you are a scumbag. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here other than to make yourself feel superior to people that were subjected to abuse, an altogether pathetic fucking response to this.

Furthermore, regarding empathy.. I always belied that the weak (and yes, even the stupid, if you believe that's what these women were) deserve as much empathy as the strong. Shockingly, some might even say more so. On the scale of crime victims, I'd rank those sexually abused just about near the top.

Where does the weak will come from?

You know, I'd have to agree. Women who are raped. Children who are abused. People who are physically incapable of defending themselves from sexual abuse, or mentally incapable (such as a person in a vegetative state, or one with mental handicaps). These are all people that I think should be protected and whose attackers should be killed or castrated.

Yet a grown, mentally capable adult (at least capable enough to hold down a job) that allows someone to repeatedly abuse them for years without doing anything about it? There is no excuse. Their abuser still deserves punishment, there's no doubt about that. But for a person who clearly had the means to end the abuse to continue to allow it? Someone who does that is weak and pathetic and deserves no sympathy or empathy.

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I ask again, Tyral. Where does the weak will come from?

Do you all really think this would affect so many women in America if it were as simple as just stop letting someone abuse you? At some point common sense has to tickle somewhere and say there must be a little more to it than that for many women.

On a related note, as a person who often times has to work on having empathy, I can tell you that a lack of empathy is not something to covet.

I've come to realize that I think this one thing where it's pretty hard to get the other side to see where you're coming from. I simply hate to see people victimized, regardless of whether they ask for it or they willingly walk right into it. It's incredibly easy to armchair it without being in their shoes. Some of us grew up instilled with values that encourage us not to allow ourselves to be victimized in any way. Some did not. To ignore that fact and not allow yourself to see it from their perspective is to ignore the situation entirely.

Weak will is like fat. Sure, it can be caused by some sort of medical condition. Far more likely, though, it's because the person is lazy and undisciplined. So while I have no way of knowing what the case is with these two women, I'm sure you can guess what I think might be the root cause.

Some of us were raised on cupcakes and ice cream for dinner. Doesn't mean you get a pass for being a lard ass once you're an adult.

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It doesn't excuse it, but it certainly offers some perspective and understanding providing the person will be open to it. And of course people should try not to be victimized. The question remains what opportunities they were given to change their own mindset, and what outside influences helped give them more potential to change. Growing up with a certain type of influence and mindset in your early years is an incredibly powerful force, and changing it can be very difficult without at least a LITTLE outside influence, whether it be being born with a silver spoon or a concept instilled in women that they should just take it.

I'm going to keep going, and I promise I have a point. Let's pretend it is because they are lazy and undisciplined.

WHY are they lazy and undisciplined? Where did THAT come from? Why are you NOT lazy and disciplined (assuming you believe you are not)?

I don't know anything about the specifics of this situation.

However, I would be willing to bet that the women probably early on in their lives fell into this catagory.



Those are exactly the type of people who go on to later in life take that kind of abuse for years and years without doing anything about it.

Disclaimer: This may not be the case here, since I don't know more than just the short article stated. However, I think that this is a distinct possibility.

Or they could have just been rationalizing it the entire time because the pay was good.

I know where you're going with this, so I'll jump right to the end of this discussion: I'm sure you can find an "excuse" for any behavior by digging into background. Defense lawyers try it all the time to explain or give some sort of context for their client's behavior. And it's as bullshit then as it is now that you're trying to do it.

The fact is that, as an adult human being, you always have the ability to choose. There is no situation in which you can say "I didn't have a choice." This ridiculous idea that people can somehow be excused for poor behavior based on previous experiences is bullshit. You cannot possibly convince me that these women didn't know they could end it. That they didn't know it was wrong. They knew. They made the choice not to end it. So fuck them, and fuck you for trying to defend their behavior.

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Why was the pay not good after 7 years? Was that the point they figured they'd get a fat settlement for their hard work as office sluts? 7 is a lucky number?

So you are unwilling to recognize that all of us are a product of our environment, and you assume that their environment was exactly the same as yours and therefore they should see everything just the way you do?

Talk about close-minded blinders. Fuck me, indeed.

Not what I said, but you enjoy beating up that straw man there, if it makes you feel better.

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I really don't understand the motivation behind placing blame on the victim. Most people endure some kind of crap and some have a greater tolerance for crap than others. So what? It's possible they figured they could expect similar conduct wherever they might go or that the incidents were infrequent enough that they allowed themselves to believe it wouldn't occur again. Besides, we don't know what steps these women had taken prior to going public. Maybe otherwise they found their jobs to be incredible. So many possibilities.

No, it's exactly what you said. If I'm wrong about it, then answer the question you avoided: where does the laziness and lack of discipline come from? Feel free to show me in your answer where I was wrong.

Am I to assume that Tyral is living the perfect life he wishes for himself because he has willed himself to accomplish everything he has wanted?

I keep almost replying but honestly... The problems with your point of view don't even need pointing out, they're so glaringly obvious.

Maybe you should open a business and train women in your awesome sword fighting techniques. I'm sure you could make a lot of money off the "weak-little bitches" out there, and hey, might as well put that skill to use at places other than Dragoncon.

Here's a highlight reel if anyone is ever feeling down on themselves to realize just how much stupider you could be.

Fighting has nothing to do with this thread. These women allowed a judge to repeatedly sexually abuse them over the course of YEARS. After the first or second or third or twenty-third time they could have filed a report with HR, or the police, or sought help from a counselor, or clergy, or quit the damned job, or just about anything other than take it yet again. I didn't say they should have fought him off.

It amazes me how much of a hypocrite you are. What really cracks me up is that you're so lost on how to handle someone calling you out on your bullshit that you resort to calling me stupid as a response.

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The sad part is that now that they have - for whatever reason - finally come forward they'll be presented as poster children for strong women standing up for themselves or whatever.

In all actuality, they're a good example of what women should NOT be. They're a terrible example.

I'm just trying to figure out what group of people you *don't* have contempt for, Tyral.

I don't understand how someone could continually put themselves into a painful situation. Be it male, female, young, old, potato, tomato, whatever.

I keep hearing the old one liner when I hear of situations like the one these women were in:
Patient: Doc, my arm hurts when I bend it this way.
Doc: Don't bend it that way!

What the judge did in this case is fo far beyond wrong he doesn't deserve to breathe fresh air again -- well at least not with his balls attached. He is a sick, evil, and weak for continually taking advantage of these women.

That being said, I don't understand how the women could not do SOMETHING to either stop it or bring attention to it. Were they thinking "maybe some day he will stop" or "maybe someday it will get better"?

Krby, since you're at least somewhat rational, I'll see if I can point out what my perspective on the issue is.

1) I think you are grossly misunderstanding the psyche of battered women, or anyone who is abused, assaulted and generally intimidated. There is plenty of material out there, and I'm no expert, but I know enough to realize that it's not as simple as waking up one day and deciding enough is enough. If it were that simple, this phenomena would not be so commonplace. Instead of dishing out heavy-handed judgments based on huge assumptions, try to put yourself in their shoes. The man was 6'4" and over 250lbs.

2) The guy was a judge. In a mid size town, he was probably one of the most powerful people in it. Regardless what you think the reality is, the only thing that matters is the power that they felt that man wielded - whether he was lying or not. It's not like this guy was just some good 'ol boy who ran a hardware store. He not only acted like he ruled the town, he probably did in many ways, at least in a totally believable way.

If he intimated that he had power over the local police, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe him.

The article also references worse assaults in a sealed document. Keep in mind that he did not dispute any of the sexual assault charges, either.

BTW, this would probably be a good place to start if you really want to research the issue.

http://galvestondailynews.com/sections.lasso?wcd=77

Sure, in situations where the abuse happens at home, from a spouse or family member, etc etc I can understand all the psychological complexities behind it.

But this was just a job. The lady applies, gets accepted, the FIRST WEEK she is there she is sexually assaulted, then COMES BACK for seven years.

Something isn't right there. Something just isn't right.

An editorial from the Galveston newspaper:
http://galvestondailynews.com/story.las ... 9ca5de1921