Wow, 3 pages on how fucked the Republican party is and not a single word on here about Obama reinstating the military tribunals.

Lanys has become apathetic.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

There's a lot of stuff that happens in the news that doesn't get discussed here, favorable or disfavorable to both sides of the political aisle.

I've given up pointing out how Obama has proved himself to be exactly what everyone claimed he wasn't during the campaign... a typical (although quite gifted) politician.

Dude, Republicans are Diablo?

Fucking sign me up!

Well what can you do? There's a lot to talk about when it comes to outlining how fucked up the Republican party is.

If there's a topic that you think should be discussed, and isn't, you have two options:

1. Raise the topic.
2. Be a whiny bitch about how the topic hasn't been raised without doing anything productive to raise the topic.
3. Move on.

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Hope is the new black.

three*

/cue Spanish Inquisition

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Hope is the new black.

Why will nobody actually try to support Obama without relying on the tired "OMG BUT REPUBLICANS ARE THE DEVIL!!!!!!" argument? Yeah the Republicans are fucked up; but that doesn't justify Obama's actions on tribunals, corporate salaries, lack of transparency, lobbyists, or anything else.

Out of curiosity, I wonder who started the latest "OMG BUT REPUBLICANS ARE THE DEVIL!!!!!!" thread. I'll have to go check...

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Hope is the new black.

There's one thread about Republicans (Which doesn't mention or support Obama) and that's the conclusion you leap to?

Bearne, I did. So what? Clearly, I believe both parties to be fucked up...

That's exactly what I was thinking before reading this post, and I haven't seen a Python in 10 years. That's joke staying power!

Yeah, I did raise the topic I wanted to raise there butch. The topic of how all you obama zealots on here bash the repubs , yet fail to even acknowledge yet another complete turn around on one of their saviors main campaign promises.

Change indeed.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Really though, Khan. Talk about Koolaid...ever stop to consider that maybe a post like this belies a bit of bias and blind zealotry on your part, too?

It's been pretty quiet overall on the political front here lately. Then there's one post - a post that doesn't even seem to mention, much less exalt, Obama - and you go off on some sarcastic tirade about Obama followers bashing Republicans?

Re-instating the tribunals AND going back on his word to release the photos from Abu Ghraib. Oh, and don't forget that he just put one of Cheney's top generals, someone directly responsible for a lot of the torture that has gone on, in charge of forces in Afghanistan.

1) Rendition
2) Warrantless wiretapping
3) Torture accountability

That's one hell of a list of things that he said he'd fix.

As Andrew Sullivan points out (one of the biggest Obama fanboys in existence), Obama now OWNS these issues just as surely as Bush did.

<--- Does not disagree.

I guess I'm curious where the Obama zealots are. Sure a number of us here on this board probably voted for him, but I can't think of a single person with the exception of maybe Skycrasher(before he left) that hasn't had some serious criticism for him since he took office.

Find me a post you've made with serious criticism of Obama, Venen.

Bearne is exactly right, you want to see a topic discussed, click that new post option. I don't think anyone is worried about too many new topics at this point.

I myself just haven't had much to say. I'm in a wait and see mode, and most of the discussion here has gotten, I don't know, repetitious and boring...

I'll be back full force for 2010 elections I'm sure.

Many Democrats who supported Obama are still in "We won and he's our boy. We'd better not rock the boat" mode. In their defense, the Bush supporters stayed in that mode for 6 years (and some even longer than that).

I just have to wonder if they even think about the fact that they are behaving exactly the way the Republicans did in 2001?

is there a single thread post-inauguration in this forum that has been pro-obama?

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I made one!

I voted for Obama and I don't expect him and I to agree on every single issue. Actually I expected him to be more liberal on some issues then he has been so I'm quite pleased with his performance.

My bad. I mistakenly thought you cared about military tribunals. I apologize for not realizing the only reason you posted was to try to zing "teh Obamabots." How stupid of me for giving more credit than you deserved.

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Hope is the new black.

During the election, there was more discussion about the faults of people posting anti-Obama threads than the points themselves. Since the election, there is more discussion about the faults of people posting anti-Obama threads than the points themselves, and, now, there is ZERO discussion about the issues, such as Obama either keeping in place or even strengthening Bush' policies than the demonizing of the posters.

It must be nice to have no moral certitude whatsoever, Bearne.

But, you did post once that you agreed with me, so I guess that gives you immunity! Keep fighting the good fight! Maybe next year you'll do more than lift your pinky in outrage.

"Why did you do nothing when the man you voted for did something you were strongly against 6 months ago?"

"Do nothing?! Why, I made a 3 line post on the Lanys community forums."

Dude, prior to Khan's post that started this thread, I had no idea there was any issue surrounding military tribunals. I still don't have any facts to base any sort of discussion of the topic, since I don't really have the time to go digging around and no one's posted any links or commentary.

That's why I find Khan's post to be pretty unhelpful. If there's a legitimate topic of discussion, post some links, post some thoughts. A three line post criticizing the boards for not talking about a topic that probably very few people are even aware of doesn't accomplish anything.

And you've no idea what sort of actions I may or may not take off the boards regarding political topics I care passionately about.

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Hope is the new black.

Guys, no one is talking about the topic I want them to talk about, someone talk about it for me?

Lol. Post some links. hah. I seem to recall being flamed for posting links. Heh. Post some links, indeed.

Well, if you post links that don't support the position you say they support. what do you expect?

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Hope is the new black.

Military tribunals were a "main campaign promise?" I had no idea. I don't ever recall even hearing about them during the campaign.

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Take your pick. I expressed concern over the potential passing of the Treasury Secretary's plan to be able to seize financial companies. I said I was very disappointed in his preservation of renditions, and would like to see an investigation if this keeps up. I've said several times I would prefer a more robust approach to Obama's stance on gay marriage. During the election cycle I said I was disappointed that he ran from his pastor, and that he seemed overly cautious about using nuclear energy as a more ambitious source. Plenty of other things as well, but that's off the top of my head.

You can pretend that the board is full of rabid Obamabots, but that's as pathetic and sad as your getting easily offended and pretending to be persecuted in the religious thread. Yes, everyone is out to get you and the whole world has been duped.

Serious criticism. Your words. Link?

It's called fantasy-land revisionist bullshit.

I love how as time goes on Joxur becomes more and more unhinged.

All of those comments are in their respective threads(treasury sectretary thread, gay marriage thread, etc... most even right on this page). Here's one for ya:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6730



I still stand by that, but as I said it's something I still want to see changed. Surely not the most hostile anti-Obama remark ever uttered, but it's an issue I'm obviously in serious disagreement with him on. Mostly it's all of those comments added together that I see as serious criticism, but certainly this issue is serious enough by itself to qualify the statement.

There's more praise than criticism in your quote.

Venen, don't play this game-- it isn't worth it. The only criticism Joxur will say is "serious" is something like this:

"Obama hates all freedom and his entire goal in life is to pull our entire country down in a blaze of brutal tyrrany."

It's obvious to the rest of us that there has been criticism by many of us on these threads-- just never enough for Joxur.

Really? I've been hearing about it since last week. Chalk that one up to another story buried by the liberal mainstream media.

Seriously Tyral? Closing Gitmo and ending unjust military tribunals doesn't ring a bell? It was practically an anthem early on in his campaign. You must have been a late convert.

But really who gives a fuck. The only changes we will ever see are the faces of those spouting the rhetoric; Policy and SOP will remain the same.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

I do specifically recall the campaign promises about closing Gitmo (which, if I'm not mistaken, he's following through with) but I don't recall anything about the military tribunals. I dunno, I could have just not been watching his speeches as much as others.

Nonetheless, Gitmo wasn't a reason I voted for him. I could give a shit what happens to those people. Do you?

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yes.

more like 1/2 a page about the republican party, 2.5 pages of the christian debate.

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Yep.

That's part of why Americans are so apathetic. We might bitch and moan about Republicans and Democrats and the same old shit every year after year after year but the only people that can change it are the voters and we just don't do it. Year after year we just keep towing party lines, voting in the same bullshit with different faces.

Republicans and Democrats are like Wal-Mart. We might all think they suck, but ultimately they know that people will just keep coming back anyway, so why clean the stores up and make it any better? (At least they all suck where I live.)

Besides, a government the size of ours doesn't just change because we vote in one guy. Even if Jesus was president, it'd take years to change anything.

Fixed.

I wasn't asking you, I was asking Khan.

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/yawn

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Shortest Tarot post.
Ever.

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

not true I saw her post just the word No once a...

Mind you it was then followed by another post with a 3 page explanation of the word no and why she said no but.. it was a post all by itself. (pokes Tarot with a stick)

On topic though. I completely disagree that this board is filled with people who are massive obamaites. I was very surprised when I came back to see so many people here complaining about things Obama is doing. Sure I saw one MAYBE two people who post like they are in awe of their new dear and fluffy lord Obama, but that is hardly the norm here. (from what I've seen)

On the other hand I have seen quite a few posters that so hate Obama that they can't stop foaming at the mouth about it. It reminds me of the rabid hate of George Bush that those same people use to complain about.

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"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/11/g ... t-fire-me/

I'd love to see Obama address this topic if not the current marriage one. It is infuriating to me when anti-gay bigots defend themselves with: "Well, President Obama agrees with me." His silence on the topic is getting more than a little old and I am being forced to agree that perhaps he does.

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I absolutely agree that DADT was a horrible idea, and should be repealed immediately.

That said, you do not get to deliberately violate a lawful order (no matter how dumb it is) and then expect clemency just because you're gay. In the civilian sector I'd be all about giving the guy a break, but in the military I hold you to a higher standard.

I sympathize with Choi, but he knew exactly what the consequences would be and he knew that if being out was that important to him that he should not join the military.

Do you apply that same thought pattern to at-will employment and states without discrimination laws?

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Nm. I somehow missed this.

So equal rights are only for civilians?

Not sure I can support that mindset.

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The guy doesn't need a break, the law needs to be changed. I'd like to think that Obama has been too busy with the economy to change it and that he will get around to it when he has more breathing room. Maybe this is the catalyst he needs.

Actually, yes. Not siding with anyone on this, but just as point of fact our service members actually give up a ton of rights by joining the military. Many of the things you'd be able to do as a civilian, even basic rights granted by the Constitution, are punishable under UCMJ.

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The guy is a West Point grad, commands an infantry unit, speaks Arabic, is an experienced intelligence officer, and has done tours in Iraq. It is kind of hard not to have "Gays are more of a threat to national security than terrorists" be the message to come out of that.

It's easy to say that he knew the consequences, etc. But DADT puts service personnel in a bind. Saying "I'm gay" constitutes "homosexual conduct" worthy of discharge, but having to wall off sections of oneself to one's brothers/sisters in arms can only have the effect of reducing trust and unit cohesion. It is an inenviable position and one that anyone willing to risk their lives for our country shouldn't be put in.

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Hope is the new black.

Yes, he's a good service member. I'm not discounting his ability and his experience that the military sorely needs, nor am I making the bullshit claim that allowing gays to serve openly would harm military cohesion or have a negative effect on our combat readiness.

In the end though, for good or ill, DADT is a lawful order in the military. As such, every service member is obligated to follow it or else face the consequences. I would be applauding him if he had come out and then took his punishment while continuing to advocate for allowing gays to serve openly, but that's not what he did. He disobeyed a lawful order knowing full well what was going to happen and is now trying to play the victim and avoid any serious repercussion.

As for gays having to wall of sections of themselves, that's just a fact that every service member has to deal with (some moreso than others). There are parts of even my life that I could not allow my fellow service members to become aware of or else my enlistment would have been in jeapardy. I didn't talk about it anyway though, I sucked it up, kept quiet, and did my job to the best of my ability.

The only way I could condone his being forgiven for willful disobedience is for Obama to do away with DADT, him to be discharged as punishment, and then every service member discharged over the past three years under DADT to be offered a recall to service (including him of course). I say three years because you require retraining after that.

I bet the Obama administration will do nothing about this. He has no political reason to do so. It isn't like the gay community for the most part will vote for Republicans right now anyway.

I don't think that Obama will ever be the "Gay Rights Champion" that so many people wanted him to be. His past statements indicate that he is happy with the status-quo

I think we've done a lot in a very short period of time on a host of issues. If we can pass massive stimulus and budget increases with only a few days of review, I don't see why we can't stop DADT in its tracks with a simple executive order.

DADT is legislation. If it were to be stopped w/ an executive order, that would be the same sort of executive overreach many of us found so troubling over the last eight years.

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Hope is the new black.

That is the politically expedient explanation of Obama's lack of action on DADT.
From Wikipedia:

My bad. My point is that there shouldn't be anything stopping him - and the wheels aren't even moving on it, even if you take the view that it will take time to change. Every GI that gets discharged, especially high-value ones like this dude, is wasteful.