What a strange news day...



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/14 ... y-from-U.S.

Followed by:



http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... president-…-of-texas/

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Texas joined the US with some interesting rights in that regard.

only flag in the country that can be flown at the same height as the national

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also i'm not living in a country that's only texas. the reason i'm able to stay here is because i know the rest of the country exists to more or less balance us out.

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Please leave Austin behind when you go... beyond that.. Adiós, bitches.

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Their ad campaigns in California for tourism were:

'Texas....it's like a whole other country'

I just think of that whenever I see this stuff. Honestly, it scares me. California has (or had as of a couple of years ago, still does prolly) the fifth largest economy IN THE WORLD. While we're fucked atm with our budget woes, things would be a lot different if we were an independent state.

And yet, the idea scares me so much I would fight against it. I don't really identify as a 'Californian'. Shit if I had to identify outside of 'Irish' and 'American'....I'd identify with Philly. And even with having a strong Philadelphian identity (or as strong as it can be not living there and going bonkers for the 'Iggles' ) I can't imagine wanting to be an independent state free of the union, or most people there wanting that.

But Texans are REALLY different. Most Texans I've known seem to identify as Texans first...and everything else second. (Except maybe Christian. Maybe.)

I also really like most Texans I've known. Oddly enough, I've loved every place in the south I've actually visited (and people were WONDERFUL). But while Texans do take great pride in being Texans, and are...kinda different than everywhere else...I just can't see them breaking free without some MAJOR goad.

Just don't see it. Even the Civil War, which had very strong issues for what happened (well beyond the slave question) had people *devistated* that it came to that. And even then the states merely wanted to be the state first, THEN the group second. State rights before federal rights.

Which exists today in most states, certainly in California. Feds only have rights specifically not given to the state blah blah blah. Which is why we can have medicinal marijuana and all the feds could do was to exercise their rights, and go after the doctor's licensing federally under DEA laws. But they couldn't exercise their will over the state, because the state had the right to do as it wanted there.

State rights are so powerful, I just don't see where it's beneficial to even consider it. Even with California's economy being so much more than the rest of the nation...if we weren't PART of this nation, I don't know where our economy would be.

Plus there's so many non-natives here, such a movement would never gain a good foothold.

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In Governor Hair's defense, Texas wants the Feds to re-examine their laws in light of Amendment 10. I can't think of any SPECIFIC instance lately where Texas' rights as a state have been trampled upon (and apparently, neither could he) but the point remains.
Unfortunately, the 10th Amendment is largely toothless thanks to the SCOTUS interventions over the years. I don't outright disagree with their decisions - For example, Brown vs Board of Ed was absolutely critical to our health as a nation - but each one seems to be nudging the dustpile of 'leftover rights' into the hands of the Feds.

Would love to see the source for that.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Argrax:

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/ ... ily58.html

Though it's moved around a bit since then, it's still in the top 10.

Texas does have some interesting rights regarding secession. IIRC they have to secede into 5? different countries.

While I don't really support the secession of anyone maybe it is time for the question to be asked if the US has simply become too large and unwieldy? Representatives are certainly, in most states, losing their connection to the people of their districts because the numbers they represent have grown so large. Looking at how the govt. cannot even account for where large sums of money have gone and what it was spent on makes me scratch my head.
From a state's viewpoint it seems unfair that New Jersey only gets $0.61 in federal spending for each $1.00 in taxes paid while New Mexico gets $2.03 (FY2005 numbers).

State's rights have contracted continually since the Civil War. Every time the Feds decide to mandate a program, funded or not, they supercede State law with Federal law. This has picked up pace since the highway funds being tied to drinking age fiasco.

I dunno. On the one hand, we are a very mobile society. I have lived in 5 states and am about to add a 6th state to the list so the ease of moving from state to state certainly supports a continuation of the current governmental structure. On the other hand, accountability of government to the voters would be promoted with smaller countries and dilute the power of lobbyists; additionally no state other than California would be subjected to the leadership of Pelosi. Having a larger say in government is appealing, but also scary when you consider the lack of public policy education of the average voter.

Thanks Leo, for the correction. I was getting two different parts of Texas history confused.

I had to look it up myself to make sure I got it right.

This is what I think this is really about. Not the drinking and highway funds specifically but the general idea that the fed can mandate large portions of the funds they are sending back to a state. This is even more true when they are telling states what they must spend their money on even without the beaurocratic money turnaround. I'd have to agree. If the Fed continues you can imagine a day when a state budget is almost like the Fed budget now, mostly entitlements.

Leo beat me. And I don't blame you for being skeptical, when I was first presented with that gem in 2006 *I* thought it was utter bullshit too. It really surprised me.

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Texas is an interesting place. I have to agree that there is a substantial block of people who think of themselves as Texans first and Americans second. At least, that was my impression when I lived there.

It was something that took some adjustment for me, having lived my first 30-something years in the Northeast. I think that "state" as a concept is very different when you grow up in an area where you can cross multiple state lines on an afternoon drive, versus living in San Antonio, where everything for hundreds of miles was all Texas. If anything, growing up, I considered myself a New Englander. From a cultural perspective, I think that there are more commonalities than differences among the New England states.

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Hope is the new black.

Alaskans are similar.

I lived in Killeen (Fort Hood) for 3 years and Austin for 2 years and I loved it. There is a shitton of "Texas Pride", but frankly, the state is so awesome, they should have it. I have always considered Austin to be the 2nd best place I ever lived, right behind Colorado Springs.

"I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could".

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Don't mess with Texas.

haha you haven't lived here long enough

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also austin doesn't really count as texas, because it is basically the negative inverse of the rest of the state

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For shits and giggles.

Country GDP: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATA ... es/GDP.pdf

USA by state GDP: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regiona ... elease.htm

Quebec 2.0.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Petoria.

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Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

This is a "If you don't like America pack your bags" moment. They don't want to be part of the United States anymore and that is their decision to make. They don't get to take land with them.

Can't we all just get along!

Please fucking please please please let this happen please please. The way I see it:

Texas secedes from the nation.
...
GUNDAMS!

There's a lot of wiggle room in there, but that's the net result I'm shooting for.

The sooner the better.

All I can think is that it would mean less fricken yahoos that I have to serve with.

Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

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Yeah, I had that feeling.

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Actually, they do. The entire state of Texas.

Not really. Texas v. White pretty much sealed the deal on that when it found that a state cannot secede without the consent of the remaining states or through revolution. Agree with the ruling or not, it's the rule of the land for now and probably always will be beings the constitutional writers didn't see fit to include a method for states to secede from the Union.

dear old people in texas: It might be kinda hard to get your medicaid/medicare/SS. Enjoy the new republic~!

Not to mention no military, no highway funds, etc. In fact, every single military installation, including the National Guard posts, belong to the Federal Government. Oh, and all those Mexicans they bitch about? Good luck stopping them without the Border Patrol in place.

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Heard today 18% wanted it. People never cease to stun me with their stupidity.

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Don't you know that most Texans have their own firearms? Texas doesn't need a military the people ARE the military.

A bunch of jackasses with guns is a military force in just about the same way as a pile of wood is a house.

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Knowledge without reason is useless.

http://boxrockssocks.blogspot.com/

A bunch of anti-American jackasses. Love it or leave it, assholes.

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Hope is the new black.

When did this debate turn to "Texas wants to leave the USA?" Gov. Perry is said that he wants the Government to respect the 10th Amendment to the US Constitution, the States Rights Amendment. He is saying "Wait a gosh darn second, you keep ramming these things down our throat and we feel that you are grossly overstepping your bounds as set by the Constitution."

Look at the CEO of Chase bank. They are seeing all the strings that are attached to TARP funds (strings, hell more like noose) and they want to pay the money back.

This is Gov. Perry stepping out in front of the same thing yet aimed at the states. He does not want to be in a situation where the Federal Government is going beyond its bounds telling the state of Texas how to run it's house.

My country, right or wrong. Why aren't you being a patriot about this?

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Hope is the new black.

I am being patriotic about it. Remember I did take an oath to Defend and Protect the Constitution of the US from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Just because I am not an active member does not relieve me of that oath. The Constitution not only says what the Federal Government can do, it also states what it CAN NOT do.

America First, not Texas First.

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Hope is the new black.

Just trying to stay true to my hero.

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Hope is the new black.

Actually, it does.

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Bearne, can you point out your hero in that picture? The old crackpot standing up in the front is blocking my view.

Actually, the latest map I've seen shows Texas is a donor state, receiving $0.91 for every $1.00 sent to the federal government. That's not to say seceding would save them money because there are other considerations.

What really pisses me off about this whole thing is how serious this is being taken. Who in their right mind talks about secession? Who in government? We should be laughing people out of office for making such wild and reckless comments.

That is the deal Leo, the organizers of these events as well as the speakers are NOT talking about secession. Somewhat like the military extremist memo, people are reading into it more that what actually might be there. I was at one of the Dallas Tea Parties and there was zero talk about Texas leaving the US. When Gov. Perry was asked later he said that talk of secession was senseless.

It's called "fear-mongering" and "securing the base" depending on which side is describing it. Obama's policies are losing support so they are painting anyone who disagrees with those policies 'extreme' or 'unpatriotic'. It's the same tactic that Rove/Cheney used. Polarization is the name of the game in our national politics these days.

Except that the memos you're referring to were describing investigations and focus initiated by Bush's administration.

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And it is hardly on the same level, either.

Initiated by Bush's administration, yes. But released by Obama's.




Things always look different when not directed at you, Fribur. They may seem less ominous to you but then you are not part of the groups targetted.

Okay... and? What's your point? That Obama's administration is more forthcoming that Bush's was?

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Unlike the Bush administration, I haven't seen anyone who has been labeled unpatriotic for disagreeing with Obama. I HAVE seen, however, many many times in speeches where Obama has stated that he knows people will disagree with him, and that he would be willing to work through to negotiate those disagreements.

Sorry, but trying to say that "it's the same as the Bush administration" is just bullshit, or you have an extremely short memory.

Yeah, he goes paling around with Hugo Chavez and others in his administration are calling a peaceful and civil protest about over-taxation "unhealthy"

"Paling around with Hugo Chavez" .... you are fucking retarded.

Here's some more paling around for ya:

hugo and obama at their weekly sunday afternoon barbeque, drinking coronas and smoking robustos

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At least he didn't bow, amirite?

Obama has one hell of a record so far on confronting some of the worst regimes on human rights:

- "Won't let China's human rights issues 'interfere' with relations."
- Won't acknowledge Amernian Genocide as a genocide, even though he was vocal about it on the campaign trail.
- Bows to Saudi King.
- Beaming smiles and handshakes for Hugo Chavez.

Why, you'd almost think he's more critical of the right wing members of his own country than those that really deserve a word of rebuke. Must be part of the soft power diplomatic genius of the administration.

bush would have punched chavez in the face and teabagged the saudi king cause he's straight up gangsta

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hey, good comeback. because i was a huge bush fan, and all.