Somehow the logic of "let's piss them off some more so they don't attack us again" never really made sense to me.

_________________
Knowledge without reason is useless.

http://boxrockssocks.blogspot.com/

Yeah that is just fighting extremism with extremism. If a soldier refused that order they could get released. And if an officer gave his men that order he could get court marshaled. No more acceptable then the abu ghraib prisoner treatment. And anyway very few soldiers are executioners, killing someone in battle or because they are about to kill someone else is not the same thing as lining 50 guys up on posts and shooting them.

I saw this documentary called Swordfish where we fought terrorism with terrorism.

Are you fucking kidding me??? How is dipping a bullet in pig blood considered extreme in the same context as those asshats' actions of blowing themselves up in a crowded market, flying a plane into a building killing thousands in their path, or stoning their women for walking down a street with a man who is not her husband? If anything, the idea of dipping bullets in pig blood to kill a Muslim with is funny. It is a mockery of their stupid belief of pigs...it's an act of defiance of their religious beliefs. Never in my life did I thought I would hear someone say the use of pig blood is on par, no...wait...MORE extreme than Muslim extremists.

These people use our laws and beliefs against us, all the time. It's people like you that continue to pussify the U.S. by saying, "Oh! Let's not come down to their level!" Yeah, look how many lives that bullshit ideology has saved. They know only one thing - It is better to kill and to martyr than it is to live. Symbolically taking their heaven away from those terrorists is a step in the right direction. Fuck them and fuck their religion.

If nothing else, it would install fear in them, which is something they currently don't know a god damn thing about because we're just a bunch of pussies that have our principles used against us, which consistently gives them the upper hand at the end of every day. The only way to defeat an ideology is to use its weaknesses against it. That's it...that is the only way. Sending these fucktards to Sunday school isn't going to work. Capturing them and releasing them back into the Middle East to do more terrorist acts isn't working. Using the idea that we are taking away their heaven, either by killing them in a certain manner or desecrating their corpse to prevent entry to their heaven is the only thing they would fear that might stand a chance of them not using their religion to kill the zionist pig dogs along with countless innocent civilians.

Otherwise, we can just stay on course with respecting their bullshit religion/beliefs and continue to lose the war on terror, or whatever cliche' term you want to use.

Yeah I'm a bleeding pussy liberal because I think smearing blood on bullets as a serious idea is the most fucking retarded thing I have heard and instead of dismissing it out of hand took the time to explain why it wouldn't just not help but would actually hurt the cause.



What does this even mean?

You can't fight extremism by mocking an entire religion's beliefs. Mocking someone's beliefs tends to make them angry. Angry people are more likely to turn to extremism. If you kill extremists in such a manner you just create more extremists, which is great if your only goal is to kill extremists (more targets!) not to end extremism. You're arguing that the death penalty will scare people away from committing murder with different words plugged in, it does not work.





Are we losing the war?

/agree

You're going to make some of them fearful perhaps, but most of them will just be angry and resume their crusade with even more vigor. That type of action is fuel to the fire of intolerance.

And no, it's not on the same level as something like flying planes into buildings or otherwise blowing up innocent people(assuming of course that the people getting shot at with the pig-dripped bullets are terrorists themselves), but it is certainly extremism.

Oh yea




From what I've seen there's very little evidence that Pershing actually did that. Several fact-checking sites have been unable to find any confirmation of it. It is, however, a very popular forwarded e-mail.

It might be the most forwarded email around. But when faced with an enemy that has no fear of death due to the perceived reward. Why not let them know that the reward will be denied at least according to their religious views? Sure it could be called barbaric, insensitive, and decried around the world. But I do believe that it will show them we have backbone and not the spineless cowards they think we are.

It's not because we're nice. It's because we'll gain more enemies than it's worth.

How many Muslims who are VERY much against what these extremists do would go fucking *batshit* over something like this? Not just in those nations either.

_________________

The Jewish faith also believes that the pig is a dirty animal and should not be consumed in any manner.

Oh darn!

_________________
Larreth Wolfsong (long retired)
Lanys T'vyl, Everquest

Zinky, Lvl 60 Warlock
Thunderhorn, WoW

I don't know Tarot. I've been around the world and I've never heard anyone from a culture outside of Middle Eastern descent that had one good word to say about Muslims. When the topic was brought up in Greece, Italy, Japan, Australia, England, Germany, and a few other countries I've had off-hand discussions with local people regarding Islam the comments were always indicative that the world would be better off without that religion.

Who would hate us more if we used their Islam’s "flaws" against them to dissuade them using their religion against the world to advance their agenda and kill innocent people? The Turks? Sure, because they are the only NATO country that is largely Muslim. But, who else? Politically the U.S. would draw some ire from politicians trying to be politically correct and all that crap, but individual opinions from the populations, I think, would be much different story since most people are not fond of those people using their religion to kill or do harm. Would we be viewed as religiously insensitive? We’re the land of religious freedom…so, no, I don’t think so. It’s not like we would be trying to eradicate Islam; we’d just be ensuring those who deserve to go to hell for the crimes they commit are properly escorted there. If you are a good Muslim, you have nothing to fear.

I personally do not care what the Muslims think because they are the most silent group out there when people use their religion to cause those terrible acts. If there was some guy in the Navy preaching how awesome the Navy was and killing non-Navy people in to further the Navy’s agenda, do you think anyone in the Navy would support him? How about a Mormon? If a Mormon was out there killing people to advance his religion, do you think the LDS community as a whole would simply turn away and let him do his thing? There are many different examples I could use, but they would all point to Muslims as a whole not doing anything to publically decry the foul deeds Muslim extremists commit in the name of their own religion. So, until the Muslim majority stands up and publically denounces Osama Bin Laden, al Qaeda, etc. and fights the enemy from within their own group, what they think about us using their religious flaws against them doesn’t mean a god damn thing.

When a Christian kills in cold blood, what is the first thing people say? “That fucker should go to HELL for what he did!!” So, why don’t Muslims support their people going to hell for committing vile acts against dozens if not hundreds of innocent people, yet have no problem stoning their women to death, or giving their women half the worth of a man, or pass stupid laws that allow their men to rape their wives?

Honestly, what worth does Islam have in the world? What has that religion done to promote the advancement of human rights or aid those who are less fortunate around the world? The U.S. gives more aid money to the Palestinians than all the Arab countries combined. What does that tell you? Islam teaches the philosophy of killing yourself for the sake of a cause. What other religion does this? What other religion is used to justify killing a whole sect of people, i.e. any given Zionist? The examples go on and on, yet I cannot one thing that is positive about that religion…not one single thing. Now take that religion and put it in the heart of an extremist and see how much good will come of it.

The only people who will truly be outraged if we did something to prevent the extremists from going to their Islam heaven are Muslims. And, like I said before, until they lead the charge against those who use Islam as a weapon then I really don’t give a fuck what they think about us. If they truly cared…if they TRULY wanted the world to respect their religion and wanted the rest of us to see it in a better light…they would collectively do significantly more to combat those who seek to give their religion a bad name. But, do they? No, overwhelmingly they collectively do not. So, I say we should do what we can to ensure those who use Islam as a weapon are sent straight to their hell by whatever means or methods are available to send a clear message to those who want to become Islam extremists – If you are caught using your religion to do evil deeds, we will ensure you are not allowed into your heaven by doing X, Y, and Z. They deprive innocents from life…there is no reason why we should not return that favor and deprive them of their heaven. Life is, to me, more precious than a made up fairy tale afterlife known as heaven. I am willing to bet there are some people with a good head on their shoulders that would agree with me at least on that aspect of this missive.

America is known as the land of tolerance even though we have long been a nation known for its intolerance. (Gay marriage anyone?) America is known the land of freedom, yet we practiced slavery for decades. America is known as the land of opportunity, yet the people who are born and raised here often find themselves with less opportunity than those who are here illegally and are not citizens. America is known as the home of the brave, yet we have cowards who hide behind politically correctness who lead us. America is known as the Great Satan to Muslims. Yeah? Well, if that is so, why not embrace that one and really show them the way to hell by using their religion against them? Who is it gonna hurt? You? Me? Innocent Muslims that would never hurt another person? Nope…it will only affect those Muslim extremists that use their religion to hurt others.

Is anyone in this board going to sit here and champion those mother fuckers? Probably not. So why champion not putting them where they belong when they use their religion to take life, which is the same place we all wish all murders, rapists, and other violent criminals deserve to go to? Hell…it’s a idea reserved for the worst of the worst. Anyone who uses a religion to commit murder deserves to go there based on religious ideology alone. All I am saying is that we should do our part to ensure the playing field is leveled, by sending them where they deserve and not reaping a reward for martyring themselves of killing innocent people.

And, Snarky, we are not winning the war on terror. You cannot combat an ideology by simply killing a few of its followers. You must combat the ideology to have any chance of beating it. It’s like…destroying a few thousand computers that are infected with a virus. Why not attack the virus that has caused problems with the computers to prevent it from spreading to other computers? The computers can be good again, but that virus will consistently infect other computers so long as it is allowed to replicate and infect other computers.

By using Islam’s own flaws in its beliefs against those who use the religion to do evil is the only way you are going to beat those who continue to infect others with their ideology. They currently fear nothing because they know they will be rewarded by Allah for being a martyr or for killing a Zionist. Do something to their body that nullifies their ability to get into their heaven and they will collectively learn, eventually, that they do not have a free ticket to heaven for killing people or committing other atrocious acts in the name of Islam, and all they die and kill for, can be eternally taken from them by one method or another. As a Christian nation led by mostly Christian leaders, I think it is America’s duty to prevent those who use their religion to cause pain, sorrow, and death they inflict through their twisted religious beliefs to go to the same heaven that good Christians who never hurt anyone get to go to.

Or, wait, are there two different heavens…or just one? I’m mocking religion…there is no heaven and there is no hell. But, by symbolically attacking their belief’s flaws, I think we will gain ground on the war against terrorists. They all already hate us. They’re not all going to stand up and fight America because we denied their brutal killers from going to heaven. Sorry, it simply won’t happen. Most Muslims are not extremists. Most do not kill in the name of their religion. Symbolically taking heaven away from those who kill in the name of their religion, I think, is more than justified.

The Muslims that take their own lives in terrorist acts already have a twisted view of their religion. Mainstream Islamic leaders have said that those terrorists are already going to Islamic hell (even though it is always glossed over in media coverage, peaceful Muslims aren't newsworthy) but that doesn't stop them because they have their own extremist leaders feeding them a different line about what is and isn't acceptable within their religion. You start doing something that should technically send them to hell in their own mind and the extremist's religious leaders will come out and say that its fine to be touched by pigs against your will as long as you don't do it willfully. Then you are just left with the angry mainstream Muslims.

I can't believe what I just read from you Bello. ;P

What's hard to believe? That using their weapon against them can be useful? I see nothing wrong with turning the tables in this situation. Killing them one or two at a time (or them blowing themselves up and taking 1-40+ people with them) is not proving to be successful and it does nothing to diminish the rate by which extremists are developed with new recruits. The simply continue to recruit more and more people for their beliefs and we can never win against a beliefs that we do not in some way attack.

Make it known that the methods being used are not an attack on Islam; rather it is an attack specifically directed at those who twist Islam into a weapon used to commit atrocities. A smart Muslim would agree that these assholes should go to hell if they knew the attack was on the zealot who malpracticed the religion, not an attack on innocent Muslims since we wouldn't be doing anything to them.

Really, this is not extremism and it's not absurd. It's simply different and out of th ebox thinking because we don't normally think about attacking the twisted belief; we always attack the people who practice it, which leaves the belief intact and able to be passed on to others without fear of repercussion. Well, maybe dipping everyone's bullets in blood is silly (or, maybe it's not). If nothing else, I would assume that such a practice would probably not be very good for our firearms. Regardless, there has to be something the extremists believe in that can be used against those who twist Islam into something evil. If we started doing it, the word would get around that those who choose that path may not be reaping the benefits of what they believe in should we catch up to them and do our thing to them.

If they are stupid enough to believe that they get 72 chicks who don't know how to fuck by martyring themself in the name of Islam and Jihad, then they are clearly stupid enough to believe soiling their flesh with pork products or some other pork-related practice will negate their entry into heaven. They are motivated by their beliefs, but they sure as hell aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. I say use their stupidity against them.

Yes, that's definitely extremism. I'm saddened to read your words.

"I'm not an extremist!" is exactly what an extremist would say!

Bello, even if such barbaric actions were guaranteed to work (hint: they wouldn't, it'll just create more fanatics out of anger of such actions), I'd hate to put our men and women through doing such things.

Things like this don't create fanatics. They push people who are already fanatics into open action. The extremist sheiks and madras create fanatics.

That's a pretty bold assertion Sarissa =p Even if we assume that's true, extremist sheiks and so forth will be more convincing to those who might not otherwise have been convincable when their arguments are supported by this brand of action.

Becoming an extremist is more of a gradual process that takes place because of certain lines of thought supported by both belief and evidence that the other side is evil. When Muslims see counter-arguments of "Ah, but look at what the Americans/West actually did good here" it can easily raise doubts about whether or not things are as black and white as some would make them out to be. We can erase all doubt by peforming extremist actions ourselves. And of course once a person goes extremist they rarely come out of it easily, there's a discernable threshold that's crossed. But getting there is an arduous task in itself which requires things that anger people deeply(particularly with regard to perceived injustice), which is why the massive majority of the Muslim population is quite peaceful.

Terrorists and other extremist elements can be particularly specific in what actions drove them to do what they do. You can tell whenever they speak in their videos that some of the first topics they bring up are what they believe to be perceived injustices, and it's obviously at the forefront of their minds. They don't spring up out of the ground, and there's a reason countries with poorer qualities of life(and more injustices) more often spawn these kinds of people.

Since we obviously can't dip every bullet in pigs blood. We could dump their bodies in pig feces. We certainly have enough industrial pork operations with huge lagoons of pork waste.

The assertion that an action breeds a terrorist is what is bold. As is the assumption that information flows as freely in the rest of the world as it does here. I can assure you it does not.

A normal person doesn't see a horrible act, pick up a gun/vest, and start shooting. They're indoctrinated in this stuff. It takes years. Same as the folks who holed themselves up in a cave with guns waiting for the world to end.

edit: "indoctrinated in this stuff from childhood"

Bello

While I completely understand your sentiment in what you are saying, what you are suggesting (while funny... I'm sure I'll get yelled at for saying that but I did find the idea funny so sue me) would do nothing more then solidify the entire Muslim community against us. It would cause a HUGE uprising in Iraq and Afghanistan by pissing off and insulting the very people we are trying to help in those countries and it would put all of our troops there in very grave danger. (and I'd really prefer my husband to stay as safe as he is now thanks)

It would spark massive civil unrest in our own countries Muslim community as well as in the Muslim communities of any country that helps us.

You are speaking about a very real and deep seeded religious belief and that is a dangerous thing.

You would also insult the Jewish religion in the same act.

It simply wouldn't work. We can't fight the entire Muslim community and expect to win. We would end up completely alone in that fight because no country would stand by us in that act.

_________________
"My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre and that I am therefore excused from saving universes."

Not much different than the dude that shot three cops in Pittsburgh a couple of weeks ago, who had been absorbing Stormfront / militia type stuff for years.

_________________
Hope is the new black.

In case anybody hasn't been keeping score...Muslims across the globe already don't like us. Nothing we do to help them matters. Nothing we DON'T do to "keep the peace" works. I'm just saying, I think it is time to think outside the box and not continue to be the politically correct pacifist pussies we've become because that tactic is not working.

That, and if we had any real balls, we've tell the Pakistani government to go fuck itself and go in after Osama and the rest of al Qaeda fucktards on their turf since they are unwilling to do a damn thing about it.

We've tried our current tactics for around 7 years over there in the sand. It has not won hearts. It has not won minds. They still hate us. They continue to martyr themselves. They continue to indocrinate more extremists. American hatred is at an all-time high in the Muslim culture. For instance, I visited Cairo on Thanksgiving. I told everyone I was Canadian. EVERY Muslim I said that to said, "Oh! I love Canadians!! Canada is great!!" and easily within a minute they would also profess, "I hate America and I hate Jews!" No, seriously, EVERY single one of them. You guys are fucking blind since you aren't over in this neck of the woods and talking to them. Nothing we are doing right now is going to change how they feel about us.

I guess we'll just continue handing out soccer balls to the kiddies as well as lose dozens of American lives every week doing what we've been doing all along without making any progress against those who have twisted the religion.

Order of the day, people - Status Quo! Yay!

Actually, we could, just not in the manner most Americans are willing to fight. Drop any pretense of honor or morality in how we wage war and we can completely obliterate anyone or anything.

_________________

We *could* do a lot of things along these lines, but do any of them, and say goodbye to any semblence of an American economy. We're reliant on the world at the very least in that sense. And with it, eventually our military capacity.



I'm not suggesting information flows as freely. But, they can and do get the big news. Stuff like Abu Gharib will eventually find its way onto the most ghetto streets of Tehran. Not always in the purest form of reporting, mind you. The good stuff will occasionally make it and resonate with a group of the population, even if it sometimes is filtered through a biased source and people make it out to be bad.

Some are indoctrinated from childhood, certainly. Probably a decent number, too. Like you said, it takes a long time for it to develop in a person. But not all of them - some question their sources, look deeper, and actually find out that... yea, we do do some bad stuff, and that confirms it all for them in their mind. Some of them find out that there's more grey area as they grow into adults. If we perform actions on that level, we remove some of that grey area for them, and indoctrination is MUCH easier. At present, we can at LEAST have sway over those that are slightly more objective.



You have the answer to the problem right there.

"7 years over there in the sand." Should probably be more like since the first toppling of Iran's Shah 50+ years ago.

They don't want us imposing our military might there any more than we want them imposing themselves in our region. Blasting our way into Middle Eastern affairs isn't exactly the best way to win hearts and minds.

Being peaceful and cooperative hasn't worked because we haven't even tried it yet.

Supporting the toppling of Iran's Shah was an error of epic proportions.

God yes. Meddling in foreign affairs to that degree carries some high risks.

Kudos to the SEALs. Can you imagine how hard it is to shoot so accurately at sea?

Kudos to President Obama for ordering the action. I'll give credit where credit is due.

How will they deal with the pirate bases? My feeling is that a lot of armed drones (flying at night under radar) will be involved.

As far as the subject of the prisoner is concerned, there are some (not many) units in the military who are not permitted to take prisoners.

Actually, we did gun shoots while we were underway. I'm a qualified expert in both rifle and pistol, but even at 20 feet away from the target my aim was affected by the movement of the ship.

These guys were on a ship that was affected by the ocean while shooting a at targets on a lifeboat 80 feet away that was also being affected by the movement of the ocean...and all three made head shots.

That is simply bad ass.

Agreed, it was very impressive. In addition, they only had a moment's notice to start firing. Looking at that lifeboat, did they have to shoot those guys through the windows or something? I mean it doesn't look as if they were simply standing on a raft completely out in the open.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews ... 5620090415

A french frigate captured 11 more pirates.

I have a bad feeling this is going to get bloody for civilians on American and French cargo ships...

it will get worse before it gets better

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap ... index.html



This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about doing to these guys that defame the religion. I know for a fact that a U.S. military veteran who was a convicted felon would not be allowed to be buried in the Arlington Nation Cemetary, because that is the resting place for the honorable. There is no reason why others around the world can't take a stand against those who use their religion as a weapon and deny them proper burial in any given burial site. Except for Muslims, because many don't see the immoral use of their religion in a bad light like most others do.

The one thing that stands out to me is that while the Indians are clearly stating why they believe those Muslims should not be allowed to be buried there while the Muslim community insists that regardless of what they did, they are Muslim and should be allowed to be buried there even though they are mass murderers. At least one group is willing to take a stand against those who use religion for evil by denying them the same burial rights that others are privileged to.

I'm sure it won't change your stance, but I thought I would point out the huge difference between the words "convicted felon" that you used in your argument, and "suspected terrorists" used in the article.

It's not different to disallow someone be buried in a specific place because of atrocious crimes. I don't care if they are a child rapist/murdered, suspected terrorist, or the fucking tooth fairy - the message being sent is that those people are not welcome to lay in a place of honor because they commited heinous crimes.

I am glad the Indians recognized that the crimes those "suspected" (give me a fucking break Fribur) terrorists committed do not justify them being buried among other Muslims who did not publically shame their religion...just as I would be pleased to know that a service member who raped and murdered some female would not have the honor of being buried in Arlington. It's the symbolism that matters to me, Fribur. It's a message, one that often falls on deaf ears to those who don't give a fuck either way...but it is still a message saying, "We will not give honor to those who lack it, no matter how much they think they are entitled to it."

Someone has taken a stand against the Muslim extremists in a symbolic gesture and I applaud them for doing so. That's not going to stop other extremists from doing what they do, but at least those particular asshats are being denied the same burial as those who did not disgrace their religion, which is all I was getting at in my previous posts - denying those who use religion as a weapon and twisting it to do evil acts should be denied their place in their heaven, if not by their own actions then by those who are left to bury them. It's purely symbolic, and to me that is enough since we can't actually attack their ideology.

I think you missed my point .

What about the service member who is suspected of raping and murdering some female? Ok, or not ok to bury in Arlington?

I am pretty sure it would be redundant to try dead terrorists in a court of law to ensure they are convicted to disallow them the right to be buried in a cemetery. I am also pretty sure if some U.S. service member performed some terrorist act and was killed in the process he would not be allowed to be buried in Arlington either. The terms “convicted” and “suspected” or the verdict of a court are totally irrelevant here; what is relevant is that some group of logical people out there have denied those who acted contrary to a set of ideals and principles based on honor and goodness. It was determined that those terrorists did not act as Muslims are expected to act and are being judged as unbelievers, therefore they are not being given the same rights as those who do not commit atrocious acts like that.

I wasn't there, so I wouldn't have any idea myself.

Killing indigent people is not honorable.
I'm not saying it's not necessary, when they take hostages, it's just ugly. To hear a group of ex military in the office yammer on about how they should have used 50 caliber on that boat, just sickening.
I guess the days of Roy Rogers and the white shirt cowboy vs the black shirt cowboys are gone.

Bello wants another crusade holy war, 100 yrs of killing each other until we both get so tired and covered in blood we finally settle into a peace. Even as a kid I'd get into neighborhood fist fights and realized early on, no one truly wins in a fight. Even if you got the upper hand, he had buddies, and it would only escalate.

I'm glad that Capt was rescued, and look forward to seeing him on the talk show circuit and getting his own reality tv show.

Why can't more American's be like Don Yoon in San Diego?
http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2008/12/ ... -yun-yoon/
Military Jet crash takes everything from him, and he asks people to pray for the pilot? This blog is interesting, as he did quickly fall off the American 10 second attention span. Another article says several airforce folks lost their careers as the jet could have been diverted to another airport or something. This mans ability to forgive was truly amazing.

Hey, thanks for making bullshit up and slapping my name on it. I never said I wanted another Crusade. I simply want to have action taken directly against those who use their religion (regardless of the religion in question) as a weapon. I'd feel the same way if someone killed in the name of Jesus. Indiscriminate killing is wrong, but killing in the name of a religion scars the very fabric of a belief and labels innocent people that practice that faith. It's not fair to them that some group of assholes out there are killing in the name of the religion they believe in.

In today's world, Muslim extremists are at the forefront of waging war against anyone who is not a believer in Islam. While Christians around the world have become the biggest pussies in the history of mankind and are not willing to combat them on a religious basis, Muslim extremists are clearly supporting the death of unbelievers around the world and aren't being challenged globally. So, you could almost say we're half way to another Crusdade.

Is this what *I* want? No. I want those zealots to chill the fuck out and live their pathetic lives in a way only they can appreciate. But, since that isn't going to happen our lifetime, or the lifetime of our children and grandchildren, I say we use their own beliefs against them. They believe martyring themselves will grant them 72 virgins in heaven. I say we symbolically prevent them from getting any kind of reward for killing others and do something to their remains that nullfies their ability to go to heaven. It's symbolic, nothing more. That does not equal the Crusades, so feel free to shut your ignorant fucking mouth and not put words in mine again.

How do you propose separating the extremists from the rest of them? This is a problem we had for years in Iraq, and you've seen how that has gone.

So far all you have suggested is executing Muslims with bullets dipped in pig blood, which does nothing but create more extremists by pissing off 1 billion Muslims.

They ALREADY did that =P



Once again, that's probably because they already had their kill'emall phase and effectively won.

Shit, I'm all in support of holy war. Mass genocide of religious zealotry for the win!

/sarcasm on
OMG Elessar, you are an extremist! Hide the babies! There is an extremist on the boards!
/sarcasm off

/rant on
Hyper liberal pussies have never offered any viable solutions to deal with problems...they only attack potential (albeit aggressive) methods to deal with a situation and decry themselves superior for being pacifist bitches.

How do the extremists win? They behead our people and show it on videos. They burn the corpses of our people and then hang them from bridges, then post that shit all over the internet to cause even more terror and horror.

What do we do? We follow the pussified advice of liberal pundits who whine, "Oh! Well, that just isn't right what they do to us...but we can't do that back because we'll look like barbarians! We'll come down to their level!"

Fuck that, I say behead them back when we capture them and...ok, fine....fucking waste millions of dollars in a trial and years of time to come to the same fucking conclusion that we came to when our boys walked up on them planting a god damned IED that was meant to kill said boys.

I'm sick of your incessant twat diddling while you offer ZERO solutions. My solution is an eye for an eye. It is one of the oldest forms of justice in the book (fucking pick one!) and I see no legitimate reason not to do to them what they do to us. You behead us? Fine, we capture you doing terrorist stuff, we try your ass, then we behead you so there is NO way for you to go to heaven.

Who gives a fuck what the Muslims like or don't dislike? What has gotten to suck the Muslim anus gotten us thus far? Can you tell me? What, less jihad? Oh, so now we are cowering and bowing to their religion so as to not offend the mighty Allah.

Like I said before, WHERE THE FUCK HAVE THEY BEEN ALL THIS TIME!?!? Why have they not done a god damn thing to prevent their own people from abusing their religion? Why are they not protesting the extremists actions every day around the world? Because they fear them, just as we do....because they are yellow bellied, just like we are. They support what the extremists are doing more than they criticize their actions.

In the mean time, let's all just start converting to Islam. They've said it over and over - Death to all unbelievers; death to America. In the next 30 years, converting will be the only way to save your hide since America is collectively too big a pussy to want to take more aggressive actions against those who are already at war with our ideals.

See you all at the local mosque! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
/rant off

What has gotten to suck the Muslim anus gotten us thus far? Can you tell me?

Shoulda been What has sucking the Muslim anus gotten us thus far? Can you tell me?

Oh, and FUCK YOU! :p

Wait....what? Oh well, while my brain attempts to translate that into a concept fit for processing, I'll reply with a quote:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

It's fitting here. Especially for one claiming eye for an eye, which was rebuked by Jesus quite soundly. I gotta be honest Bello, as I really do like you personally; but had you actually been present for advanced interrogation (and beyond) you'd realize just why we're above that. It's really the only thing that separates us and makes the omgwtfterrrrrrrists the "bad guys".

Elessar...the concept of not doing those things to them does not escape me. I understand, fully, why we do not. I simply do not agree. What, I believe, separates us from them is that we don't blow ourselves up and kill innocents in our path. What, I believe, separates us from them is that we don't behead people for talking smack about Christianity. What, I believe, separates us from them is that we value life whereas they value death.

I can sit here and count innumerous ways that make us NOT like them...and I could sit here and give examples of how we are alike. Beheading the terrorists would not make us like them. It would simply give us a tool to instill fear in them because a headless Muslim does NOT go to heaven...and that is the ONLY thing that they would fear.

I simply cannot state it enough, even in the face of all those reading my words screaming, "OMGZorz Bello is a batshit-crazy extremist OMG OMGz!" that the only way to fight this fire is with the fire they use against us. This is not a war of attrition. This is not a war of military power (they kill far more with one of their suicide bombers than our squads kill of them in any given day). This is not a situation where we can simply be big fat hairy pussies and try and leave well enough alone. This is a war they have waged against our values, our beliefs, our people (including Muslim Americans simply because they are Americans), and our ideologies…and the rest of the mother fuckers in this world simply aren’t getting it through their thick fucking skulls that they are at war with US. Just because they (currently) do not have a way to invade the U.S. and press their agenda and will upon us with greater force we think, “Oh, it’s not a big deal…they are over there, so we are safe.” Yeah, for now…kinda.

They've drawn the line in the sand - You are either a Muslim or you are not and deserve to die unless you submit to Allah. That alone separates us from them, Elessar. We do not kill people for their religion. We are not out to kill Muslims simply for being Muslim and we never will be until the day it is declared the world over that Islam is bad and the followers of it should be eradicated (highly highly doubtful that will ever happen). We kill people because they are trying to kill us. That is what defense is all about. However, defense only does so much. Defense did not prevent 9-11. Defense did not prevent the various bombings they have done since then. Defense does not prevent them from dragging the charred remains of our people through their streets for the whole world to see. Defense is not winning the war of terror.

However, if we start beheading their terrorists they will finally understand that America is no longer fucking around and we are holding them responsible for using their beliefs to kill indiscriminately. They already behead us so what are they going to go, behead us more? Sure, it’ll piss off more Muslims, but until the Muslims around the world start standing up against those who abuse their religion, I really could give a fuck if more of them hate us or not. We put our worst criminals to death via the electric chair or by lethal injection. There is nothing less painful then being beheaded. You simply do not feel a thing...you are alive and in an instant you are dead. No electrical current frying your flesh...no needle sticks...just lights out.

Plus, it prevents them from going to heaven if you are Muslim. I advocate doing this to the terrorists if for no other reason than to symbolically say - You have used your religion against us, now we will use it against you to keep you from being rewarded for your atrocious acts in the name of your twisted version of Islam. It’s not an evil act and it's not barbaric to do as a final form of justice, nor does it does not bring us to their level. It simply gives us a method to send a message to other terrorists - You use your religion against us, we will in turn use it against you; an eye for an eye – and you will not go to heaven as a result. The only thing that matters to these guys is causing death and going to be with Allah. If you take that from them, you will win (eventually) because that is the only thing they truly value (because they sure as fuck do not value life).

That is what I call that justice. I am sure the rest of you have some other name for it and chances are I won't agree with you...so we must agree to disagree.

I think all religion is equally worthless. None of you have the moral high ground in any way. Christians have killed more people than the Muslims have in the name of their faith (I'd wager Christians have killed more Muslims in the name of God than Muslims have killed total, including themselves). Is it any excuse? No. But put it into perspective here.



dictionary.com - second definition of terrorism:

the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

There's really no other way around it. Retribution and fear are not justice and they don't make you safer.

Yeah, but it sure would make me feel better vice not doing anything at all - which hasn't been working for us for several years now.

And, you are paraphrasing what I said. I said, "It would simply give us a tool to instill fear in them because a headless Muslim does NOT go to heaven...and that is the ONLY thing that they would fear."

There is a HUGE difference between causing fear by random acts of violence just to cause fear and causing fear of losing the only thing you hold dear, which in this case is their place next to Allah when they martyr themselves.

Muslims instill fear in all unbelievers by killing them without mercy, without regard of the innocents around them, and in insanely barbaric fashion. I say we kill them humanely with a guillotine because of the atrocious acts so that we can instill in other extremists the concept that they will not go to heaven if they use their religion as a weapon.

Perhaps fear was the wrong word to use...perhaps "pause" is the right word. By beheading the extremists, we would give other extremists "pause" so they could reflect upon the idea of being caught for being a terrorist and losing the ability to go to heaven should we take the initiative to prevent them from being with their prophet in the afterlife. Better? pft

God forbid we instill fear in them. Isn't that what all those Christian's call themselves = God fearing? OMG! God is a terrorist!!! That would make us terrorists too!

We're already torturers since we've made several of them "think" they were going to drown from water boarding...or, omg, not get lots of sleep because someone is playing Metallica too loud (I call that a good day in the gym, personally). If we hold them accountable and make them believe they are going to hell for using their religion as a weapon, well then sign me up for the terrorist label...as if the world doesn't already label us every other word in the book.

Nothing...and I mean NOTHING... else we have done is working. It's time to step it up, some how...some way. I say use their religious beliefs against them. It's easy and I think it would be effective. If nothing else, it sure as hell will get their attention more than anything else we've done.

That, or we can just continue to put our head in the sand and pretend that if we don't see it then it won't hurt us. That seems to be working pretty well for us.

You might want to research the history of the middle east before making a statement to the effect of us "not doing anything at all". Our doing "anything" is part of a very real problem. We act based on our own values, rather than having dialogue with folks living in sovereign territory. These people aren't exactly born pissed off, chief. And not to justify the actions of extremist nutjobs (of which there are plenty on both sides), but the hatred is born out of their own smaller versions of what they view as 9/11-like actions.

The captive pirate is in New York. They are sending him to court this morning. Kind of a weird situation. I wonder how it will turn out.

They should execute him with pig's blood.

Could we dip a nuke in pigs shit and still have it function? Talk about a "dirty bomb'................

That would leave one bloody mess....

So I'm confused, when did we decide the Somali pirates were terrorists again? Does anyone who commits any crime and is muslim automatically become a terrorist?

In addition, the real solution to the pirate problem in Somalia is to steal back the cursed gold ignots. Once the pirates are no longer immortal, it will be easy to wipe them out.

Before I would have put them on the same level as bank robbers and kidnappers. Now that they have threatened to kill any American and French sailors they capture? Terrorists.

Don't most kidnappers threaten to kill their victims to get their ransoms?

I don't think we should lump pirates with what we have all come to know terrorists as (i.e. those who kill innocents or martyr themselves to advance their religious agenda or to cause fear/horror with no real sense of financial gain).

If we did that, every guy that mugged someone on the street would be labelled a terrorist by the meer fact that they caused "fear" in the person they robbed. That's just stupid.

Granted, it is probably safe to say that those pirates are all of the Islam faith because of the region they all come from where that is the predominant religion, they are not using that faith as a weapon to instill fear or to commit acts of murder in the name of Allah; they are taking over vessels and holding people at gun point to get ransom money for personal gain. That's just piracy/robbery...not "terrorism" as we have come to know by the acts of the 9/11 hijackers, Timothy McVay with the Oklahoma Federal building, etc.