It is such a shame that Bush's incredible hose-up in Iraq has lead us to discuss ways to lose in the one war that actually mattered.

Dubai's working out so well.

Thanks for answering the question, Kula. I agree that those things would have been nice to hear.

Joxur, nice job dodging the question. I am still against all war, of course, but that didn't really have anything to do with my question or his speech. We never should have gone in the first place, and here we are paying the price, but I know that I have a pretty radical position on this topic and I expect presidents do things I don't agree with on this subject.

I can't help but be boggled when you post things like this.

You're a hypocrite

Everyone's a hypocrite.

Are you going to tell me what it would have taken for you to be happy with Obama's speech, or should I just stick with Kula's answer?

Nope. I could write a book based on the amount of questions you've dodged There's literally no point in engaging in a serious discussion, because you're an unserious person, especially about this subject. You could probably read the volumes of posts I've made about Iraq and Afghanistan, starting by re-reading my original post to start this thread, and deduce, quite easily, the direction I think we should go in.

Some of us don't have a problem remaining consistently passionate about an issue.

ok, so no. Then I maintain my general underlying point: you are incapable of seeing anything Obama does as a good thing. If Obama cures cancer, you will accuse him of hurting the economy by keeping people away from doctors.

OK this made me LOL

_________________
Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Joxur is mostly right on this point - there is no short-term fix here because of the general instability in the region. Had we gone into Afghanistan, dominated, and dedicated ourselves to securing it over the last 7 years, it would be a completely different story. However, the Taliban waited out the Russians, and now their waiting us out. Our relative lack of success in Iraq gives them ammo. Let's be clear, Obama is Nixon here. Bush is LBJ. Bush created the problem, and now Obama is stuck with a precarious situation.

Everything Obama is saying, Bush has said. The question remains - can he be effective? The key here is Pakistan, not Afghanistan, and we are not making inroads there. Some would argue we're moving backward.

Gates/Clinton: There is no deadline to withdraw.

vs.

Gibbs/Obama: There is no flexibility, it is locked in. It's not an open-ended commitment.

*they're

incorrect.

I was correcting mine "their waiting us out".

Thanks for the attempt tho.

"though"

18 months before they start to withdraw huh?

from CNN:

the additional troops to Afghanistan an obvious appeasement politic to secure support for health care.

Afghanistan was the target all along. Iraq just a pain in the ass.
I've always felt they should have dealt with it using surgical strikes, and special forces, not the conventional army. Cut off the head of the enemy.