That might be relevant if it were an older black person getting offended.

As it is, you usually get some 17 year old who pretends to know something about true racism and oppression and gets offended at the least thing because they were basically trained to.

Who cares? Why does it matter? If they don't like it, why not just not say it to respect them as human beings?

I don't walk into a church and start screaming obscenities just because I think it's ok. It's just about being a decent human being, even if you think the other person is being stupid.

I don't like what you just said there, I don't want you to ever say it again out of respect for me.

There's an obvious difference between you not wanting me to convey actual information, vs. me not using a single word that offends most people.

If I have to spell that out, then you are more stupid than I realized.

That also offends me, especially your use of "stupid". Please never say that word again, thank you.

(It comes as no shock now that you didn't get the Political Correctness post in bored room, lol)

Actually, he's got a point. You don't get to decide how offended other people are, nor choose what offends them.

So basically, it's only about "being a decent human being" if you agree with those offended, and everyone else are just stupid.

It's the kind of mistake many people could make and not have it be a big deal, but I expect more from the president, as I think we all should. There is a difference between tolerating mistakes and expecting them.

Why do you feel the need to use the word? That's the point I'm trying to make. There is no reason beyond, "I feel like offending people." It doesn't make a point any more than anything else; it doesn't have any meaning that couldn't be expressed another way.

There's simply no reason to use a word like "nigger" unless you are deliberately trying to be an asshole, or you are talking about the subject itself in conversation, as we are right now.

Why must you use it, so much so that it overcomes your ability to be decent to other people?

But then we're right back to that being a matter of opinion and perception. I could say the same thing about "dumb" just because I have a relative that's mute. Is there any reason to call someone/something "dumb" other than to be an asshole?



I don't use it, mostly because I have no place in conversation for it and beacuse I don't want to drown in a wave of tears.

So it is your contention that "dumb" and "nigger" are exactly the same?

How about you go do an experiment. Go try it out. Go make conversation with people, and use the word "dumb" with 100 different people. Now go do the same thing, but saying the word "nigger" in conversation with 100 different people. Then come back and see if you can tell me that "it's all the same."

Regardless of whether you agree with the validity of the word has nothing to do with saying, "hey I'm going to use it anyway-- deal with it." Go use it at work for a while with your customers, and see how long you keep your job!

You just kinda supported the point.

Dumb and nigger ARE exactly the same. Both are words that have negative connotation, and both are words that never HAVE to be used...just like every other word in the English language.

There is no reason to use many words, but that doesn't mean that we should stop using them.

As for saying them in the workplace, whether or not your employers find the word offensive is irrelevent. They could also fire you for saying pretty much any word they don't like. I dare you to go to work and speak there as you do here and see how long you keep your job. You won't do it, will you? Why? Because you know your "experiment" is bullshit.

Right.

I don't understand. Did you expect me to post something that didn't support my point?

You posted something that supported MY point. (And Bz's)

God, you're so DUMB! Ooooooooooo.

!!!

but but but... it supports MY point!

wow this is ridiculous, even for this board

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You're ridiculous.

Every thread just goes on and on and on.

People need to just start creating new threads.

You fucking people are all retarded.

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You shouldn't say retarded. It's not nice.

Please don't use the R-word around here.

The historical evolution of the definition of the word and the negative connotation that comes with it exist independently of whether someone "knows" racism or not. The question I suppose is, was the kid genuinely offended himself, or did he see a complete lack of integrity and callousness in what the person was saying? In that situation, for the kid, it would be similar to someone poking fun of how the Jews got treated in concentration camps. Did the kid have any experience dealing with that? No, but it makes any insult or statement to that effect no less vile and disrespectful.

Fribur is mostly correct. There's a distinction to be made when there's a line of history where you can specifically point to certain events that change both the meaning and connotation of a word. "Dumb" in a generic insult, and when compared to the N-word - while mostly perception and opinion - you cannot point to a historical context where the word was used specifically in association with hundreds of years of racism. I'm sure slave owners called them dumb from time to time, but it was not specific to black people.

I mean, you could say the same thing about an insult such as "you belong in a slave camp on a cotton farm". Before slavery, would that have been such a horrible thing to say? Oh, oh! The words didn't have the same meaning originally, so it's ok! The meaning it conveys today is what is important, and if slavery and racism is a thing you'd like to see buried in the past, those references(and that's what the N-word is today, a reference to it) should also be buried.

And yea, I know there have been quite a few younger-generation black families that have started using it. The strategy is to "turn it on its head" by using it themselves and saying "ha ha". Not all blacks agree with it, either. I would say its use is hardly widespread enough to call for an entirely different definition as opposed to the hundreds of years of context we have to call on, but I suppose that's open for debate =)

While I'm totally prepared to accept that "not all blacks agree with it," I'm not prepared to accept that the use of the word "nigger" by blacks isn't widespread. When's the last time you listened to rap? An almost entirely black musical form and it's littered with so many uses of that word that it's ridiculous.

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You might be surprised but the amount of black people that are actually rappers is quite small.

Naga, Please!

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Hope is the new black.

I think Joxur should be banned for posting that pic!

This pic?

OH MY GOODNESS

Why do they take a plane to school?

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Sorry, I was trying to prove a point without going into personal experience. I've spent a lot of time around African Americans. In the Army, most of my units were comprised significantly of blacks, I'm guessing around 40-60% depending on the unit. I saw that word used frequently, by them, to refer to one another or to other African Americans.

Not to mention that the amount of LISTENERS of rap that happen to be black is significant. If they found it so distasteful (and my experience is that they don't, at least when they're using it), they wouldn't listen to musicians that fling it around so much.

But you were being deliberately obtuse, so I should probably just tell you to shut the fuck up and quit making idiot comments that don't address a point you know perfectly well is being made.

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Heh, I'm well aware of how much they use it. I would not at all be surprised if it were the clear majority. Hard to get a figure on it, but I would probably be surprised if it weren't the majority(in this country).

The question for me is how many of those people actually think deeply about what they're saying, how many really know what it meant historically to black people, and how many take into account the abuse suffered at the hands of racism and bigotry which spawned the meaning of the word - every time they say they N-word.

That, I would highly doubt would be the majority. From what I've seen, it's thrown around without thought as a term of endearment and as a way to be cool - and indeed, that more than likely the goal of those who originated the idea that it should be tossed around so much that it would never again be considered an insult. But, it's pretty hard to see the justification for it even with that in mind when you throw history into the mix. That strategy would only succeed if everyone were to ignore the suffering at the hands of racism which brought the word to the forefront in the first place.

Just to add - they're not alone in being the only segment of the population or the culture to use words without much thought. Words such as gay, retard, etc are thrown around equally if not more frequently in contexts we could probably do without. I.E. "That's fuckin gay" would be different from casually referring to "The gay community". Or in the case of retard, referring to it medically.

It's my understanding that more white people listen to rap then black people.

Your point being?

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I'm just waiting to hear some Italian music with lyrics like, "Dago please."

My point is that you implied that because rap people use the word "nigger" and black people listen to it, then black people as a whole must use the word "nigger."

If this were true, then the fact that more white people listen to it should lead to the conclusion that the word should be a general component of white speech. It isn't, thus your argument is flawed.

I also just find it funny how incredibly sensitized we've all been trained to be about issues regarding blacks. No one else, really. Just blacks.

Look at retard. The mentally ill and handicapped have been shunned and attacked all throughout history. But no one walks around saying "The R-word" instead of just calling you retarded.

Or how about the jewish? I'm sure most people wouldn't argue that the jewish people have been through a hell of a lot of persecution and worse, and not only historically but fairly recently. But I don't hear people saying dumb shit like, "The J-word".

I'm not racist. I hate racism. But I'm also fairly disgusted at how well-trained we've allowed parts of the black community to get us and then the rampant hypocracy that follows not far behind.

Yeah, well. Someone who's name rhymes with diaper once told me the reason I didn't like Obama was because I was afraid the black devil would steal all my white women.

/shrug

That's part of the training.

You can't dislike anything about a person who happens to be black, because clearly it's all because they're black and not because they're an ass or something.

why the fuck do I keep clicking on this thread.... I'm so stupid.

Nigger only applies to black people that suck. Good ones are ok.

Hey, we don't use the S-word around here.

What's hilarious is that it was obviously humorous to everyone except apparently you.


BTW, and I suppose it doesn't matter, but I've always pronounced my name "Free-ber"

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I didn't name names!

Surcam, do you use the word "nigger" or any variation thereof (to include "nigga") in speech to other blacks? Just curious. I'm not asking to "call you out" or anything, but apparently Fribur thinks it's rare for blacks to use that term.

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What do you mean.. you people?

I'm betting he uses it about as often as you use Cracker, or Cracka for the hipper whities.

I believe that Surcam has gone on record as not using that word, period, but I could be wrong.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I must have missed where I said that. That said, I believe it to be so, yes.

I only use "cracker-ass cracka." But I use it often.

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Hope is the new black.

Is it still ok to use "Fucktard?"

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Cracka please.

I think people who think black people use the word nigger a lot watch more movies than they experience reality. I personally have not heard a single black person use the word nigger in the last 10 years... except for in movies. Of course, I don't hang out in the ghetto, but I have attended some functions where 90% of the attendees were black.

yep.

Nope.

From my own personal experience, whether or not a person uses the word nigger on a consistent basis has far more to do with class than with race. Living in Waco, I heard the word so much that it was difficult keeping it from becoming normal speech for me. And less than half of the time was it a white guy using the word in a derogatory way.

I really think it depends upon age. A couple of years ago, I was a substitute teacher (on days that I didn't have classes myself). I usually worked at an elementary school, but my aunt had my substitute for her once at a high school.

I had lunch duty...and it was awful. The kids kept saying it to each other (with the girls calling each other bitches), and I had to bite my tongue to not say anything. It bothered me how much they disrespected themselves...because if they don't show their own friends respect in a very public setting, they're not going to be respected by others.

Hopefully most of them will grow out of it...

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