It's very unlike you to completely ignore reality in your posts, Tarot. Children always "pay for the sins of the parent." Your parent's poor? You're poor. You grow up in a shitty area. You wear shitty clothes. You eat cheap food (if you eat at all). You don't have health insurance. You don't get to go anywhere. Birthdays and other holidays suck, because you don't have any money. This isn't the kid's fault, but they still have to suffer for it.

The same shit goes for this policy. You know what, getting pulled from a line because your parent is a lazy ass that's both poor AND doesn't know how to apply for free lunches for their kid isn't that big a fucking deal. Especially since they're still being fed.

So we can go on this touchy-feely, bullshit ride where we pretend that all children must have an equally great childhood, but it's not reality. It's not the school's responsibility to make the kid feel like they're not poor. And it's not my responsibility as to pay for some other parent's laziness.


Uhh... yes? Duh? You feed your kids, Tarot. There's no fucking qualifying statements for that. I can't imagine getting angry at my kids, even a little bit, because they want to eat lunch. If I were in that situation, it would already be addressed because they'd be on the free or reduced lunch program.


The schools do JUST THAT. They send reminders, and they call, and they repeatedly tell parents about free and reduced lunch. They do this throughout the school year, and the moment a child looks like they're struggling with lunch money and they're not bringing one from home, the schools directly contact that child's parents to let them know. This has been the norm at every school my daughters have attended.

From my experience, there's no excuse whatsoever for a parent to not be arranging for lunch for their kid while at school. It's made as simple as possible. It's made as inexpensive as possible for those who have money problems. If they're failing to take advantage of the programs, it's because they either don't care or they're completely inept. Either way, they shouldn't fucking have kids.

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Yes, it has been the norm. Just as it HAD been the norm to go ahead and give the kids a hot lunch.

The 'cheese sandwich' shit is new. Can you guess why? I'm pretty sure you can. The schools have not been able to hold the hands of parents currently because it's hitting SO many kids they can't afford to feed them all, there's not enough overage to cover it.

Additionally, while it's wonderful that you think your kids can come to you with every little thing, many kids are pretty sensitive to shit going on inside the home. And if the kid is aware that they're running out of money on a lunch card AND they've seen one or both parents lose jobs, stress about money, and are losing a house THE CHILD may not want to approach the parent about it. The first time the parent realizes the money has run out on the card (and that therefore they need to put more on and/or apply for the lunch programs) is the day the kid comes home upset that they were dragged out of a line and handed a cheese sandwich.

As far as touchy feelie bullshit....life is hard enough. The entire reason poor kids are given the exact same lunch as those who pay for it, is so poor kids aren't singled out.

Then again I've done counseling with parents who lived in shelters with their kids, so I've seen first hand how poverty effects kids. And you might be amazed at how well a child can keep hidden from their peers shit that they're going to get taunted about...like living in a homeless shelter because the housing that is priority for moms with kids has a waiting list of almost a year, etc. I'm sure it would be wonderful for kids already struggling just to get by to have one more thing heaped on the shit pile because...yanno what, fuck touchie feelie bullshit, they should just man up...blah blah blah.

/shrug

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I love the phrasing there...as if it was some prison camp for kids and the child was approached by captors speaking some asian language, then forcibly dragged away through the dusty prison camp by his collar.

The other captive children watch - in silent terror, each fearing the same fate - as the helpless victim is shamed, humiliated, then thrown a cheese sandwich while the camp warden laughs and lets his dog feast on filet mignon.

The other children lower their heads and silently shuffle along in their food line as the guards return from the scene of the example they have made. Each captive knowing that tomorrow could be their day. Tomorrow could bring the cheese sandwich to their hands.

ok, that was lolz, Bov. Thanks for that

I figure sooner or later Chuck Norris or Rambo should show up and save them from the unnamed-asian-country-prison-cafeteria.

No Tarot, your statement here demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of how CPS works. My mother became a foster parent not long after I left home for the Army. She was/is a FP in 3 states and in small, medium and large communities and I called her up and spoke to her about this subject just last night.

She informed me that she has had the gambit of kids on her door step, from abused and molested kids to kids who did nothing more than walk out their door in their underwear to get the paper for their parents. CPS will and does take any and all instances into account and in her "Informed" opinion vs yours she says that CPS SHOULD be called on the parents and them be forced to go to court. "Not providing a means for your child to eat at school is exactly the same as not providing food at home. Can't pay for it? Fill out the paperwork, lazy ass". (her quote)

This is from a woman who has had over 500 kids in her homes, could wall paper an apartment complex with her xmas cards and fill a semi with pictures of all her kids. Not a bystander with a superior opinion.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Hey Syuni, can I borrow this?

Funny lines Bov, but unfortunately makes emotional hardships for young kids that have little inkling how to control their emotions and prevent themselves from sinking deeper no less serious. It's rather easy to sit here, after we've all matured and thickened our skins and say that it's pansy shit. Unfortunately, that's the same kind of crap that leads to Columbine and Virginia Tech when left completely unnoticed. Needless emotional aggrevation will only lead to a tougher time for them in the long run. Basic psychology, really, and especially the case when they bottle it up inside.

And naturally there will be anything from kids who can shrug everything right off, to kids who let it get to them and become deeply entwined in their emotions. Those who let it get to them have a much higher chance at delving into a state like I said above. It strangely becomes less of a laughing matter when they start shooting.

I think with regard to CPS, Khan's mother's opinion is great and all, but it really needs to be a last resort. The circumstances Tarot mentioned seem to be fairly reasonable.

Think of it this way, if the ONLY thing that a kid's parents had done that was really wrong was not giving them lunch every day, and they did everything else right - would that REALLY be a reason alone for CPS to take them? I think not. Parents do some really stupid stuff, but in the end a kid needs parents and guardians that they have known all their lives to really get them through the tough times. It's a last resort because for better or for worse, lifelong parents are about as genuine a relationship as a kid is going to have in their early lives and it's a backbone for them.

And no doubt a bunch of kids have shown up to your mother's doorstep - how many of them are just going through the "RUN FROM HOME" phase, anyway? How many of them are exaggerating the situation because of that? I'm sure there are plenty of them that are legit, but I'd be cautious in her shoes.

Either way, you can't go around taking kids away from their parents on a whim. Looking at these kid/parent relationships from the outside and judging them is pretty convenient for us. That's precisely why CPS has a pretty strict ruleset.

Lovely. I know a teacher who left a district after pretty much crying herself to sleep most of the time over the kids. And she's not a highly emotional woman. Here's what CPS did NOTHING about:

-child who was put outside his apt. at 10pm every night so Mommy could turn tricks. She would sometimes give him a bar of saltine crackers...yanno for dinner. Child would wear weather inappropriate clothing to school (shorts/cut off tshirts in winter, in So Cal at the time of year it was, that was about low 60s in the morning). Child was occassionally covered in bruises.

Child was never removed. CPS reports filed on a regular basis.

-Child is getting a 'C' in one subject. Parent informs child during parent teacher conference that other relatives in the Latin American country she is from which at the time was still somewhat of a war zone, would be more than happy to come here. Parent informs child in graphic detail in front of teacher how the soliders will rape her. Teacher stops this line of talk, and parent reiterates that if there is a single 'C' on the report card, she's getting shipped out.

CPS reported, nothing done. (Teacher agonized over this, and no the kid didn't get a single C)

-Mother comes in upset to talk to teacher. Begs school to intervene, child stole entire rent, probably for drugs. Mother claims entire family will be made homeless.

I know social services did something here, or perhaps the police did...but IIRC it was to find alternative housing for the family. Money was never recovered, drugs were never found on child...though he was a suspected drug user/dealer.

-Child shows up 1 year after leaving school extremely pregnant. Repeatedly raped by next door neighbor, but refused to testify/file charges and not enough evidence for criminal case to proceed. It is thought that it may actually be incest with father (who may or may not be her biological father). Girl refuses to state father. Girl is under 12. Previous calls to CPS did not result in girl's removal from home, girl still lives in home. Whatever happened, unknown because she was no longer at that school and was believed shortly thereafter to have moved out of the area.

...I could go on and on. This was 6th grade.

And I'm not blaming CPS workers, I've known more than a couple. I know why kids aren't always removed, especially when there's not available placement for them. I did drug and alcohol counseling and saw parents put into 'parenting classes', rather than have the kids removed, in conditions *I* considered horrific. Like a father not home 2/3rds of the time, mother working as a prostitute sometimes in her own home. Children covered in flea bites. Both parents actively using. Children were not removed despite more than one call to CPS. Father was placed into parenting classes ONLY when he beat the shit out of his 4 year old in front of the daycare worker (their kids were in subsidized daycare at that point to get them out of the home part of the day while the parents were ostencibly 'working') and called the child repeatedly an 'asshole'. The physical beating was only stopped by intervention of the daycare staff. Father was smacking the child upside the head.

Court ordered parenting classes, again IIRC, consisted of five one hour classes. Mother was not required to attend.

That story at least I can tell you the happy ending. I would have assumed that the father stood the best chance, as he had at one point ceased using drugs, was attending counseling and 12 step meetings. Yet it was Mom who cleaned up, got her shit together and left. Dad remained abusive and controlling outside of drug use, whereas Mom's main problem was him and her habit. She moved out of the area, and surprisingly the kids turned out okay.

If you had seen the problems the kid had (as a result of his environment most likely though he was also an addicted baby) you'd have bet money he would end up in jail in his early teens, prison by 20.

No, whether that means CPS made the right choice in not removing...I don't know. I do know that in making a couple of home visits, I would not have let an animal live as those children lived.

And generally speaking when I saw children seemingly removed for far less, there was often far more to the story. I had a heroin addict who had lost her daughter for seemingly MUCH MUCH less...and discovered over time it was because the child had been removed previously for serious and criminal neglect. Once mom started using again, they moved quickly to remove the child. As it was not the first removal, they attempted to sever parental rights but she fought this successfully. I wasn't involved in any of that, suffice to say I know that's not a move the courts make lightly. She got clean, got a job, got a place to live, and maintained that for over two years before she got her kid back. I think they did supervised visitation then stepped up from there. Last I heard she was staying clean, but the kid had some major problems. In that instance I think it was more due to being more addicted than environment...but IDK.

I do know the one thing that CPS is quick about, at least in Southern CA, is suspected sexual abuse. Every case I've heard where CPS is reported to have 'swiftly moved in and snatched a kid out' blah blah blah...has always involved allegations of sexual abuse. Neglect they seem to give a MUCH longer leash.

And the courts have the mandate to preserve the family. Everything 'in the system' is designed to make the family whole again...that's the goal. That's the stated goal.

That's not to say that there are NEVER cases of unfair removal. I'm sure there are. Or that some other regions have better/worse systems. Again we can all look to Florida for the worst.

But given what I've seen of CPS personally and through first hand accounts from people I know and trust...they would take a report on a kid not having a lunch, but if that is the only thing going on...they would NEVER remove that child for simply not having a lunch. No fucking way.

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Either Tarot has lived a more eventful life than Benjamin Button or she's a better creator of fiction than F. Scott Fitzgerald.

This may come as a surprise, Neesha, but it's not hard to lead an eventful life if you leave the house every now and then.

Oooh.. the mmo player dissed another mmo player about having a life. Buuuurn!

I don't think F. Scott Fitzgerald was that great, but I've only read the Great Gatsby by him.

And it's hardly that eventful of a life. I did drug and alcohol counseling for a couple of years. I got burned out very quickly. I can't *imagine* going for an LSW and doing any form of social work, but I have great admiration for those who do. While there are some shitty people in that field, my experience by and large has been that it's made up of tremendously caring and compassionate people.

It would drive me to beating someone with a bat, or insane in well short of a year though. There's no way I could handle it. =\

Additionally I have two fatal flaws that are killers in that area of work. Number one, I tend to believe most people. I'm not good at spotting liars, and people struggling with addiction are *fantastic* liars (sometimes even to themselves). But I tend to extend belief probably to a point that makes me appear naive, in all aspects of my life. /shrug

Second is, and this one frustrates me, I tend to think most people think as I do. Even though I *know* this isn't the case, I constantly do this. So I assume that if people are shown that they're incorrect, or they're doing something wrong, that when they see the right/better way to do it, they'll of course jump to it! I seem to be continually shocked that people are disingenious. Or that people are capable and even self interested to promote shit they know is bullshit. Again, it probably seems naive, and probably is. I tend to believe everyone is a 'reasonable' person or can see reason...despite evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps it is a form of mild retardation!

As an aside, the parent who threatened to send her kid back to a_latin_american_country though? I was there for that. The teacher had asked me to be present in the other room during parent conferences that day, for her safety, since the other teacher wasn't holding conferences in the adjoining room at the time. So I got to personally overhear that one. It still bothers me to this day.

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I suppose that's one way of reading the statement. Another would be that there are many people who are able to experience the world because they choose to.
If cloistering yourself protects you from the grand heights and the crushing depths, by all means, enjoy your gently rolling plains.

Or that some people regularly use huge sums of anecdotal evidence to make sweeping conclusions.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

You can call it "basic psychology" to coddle children, but the flip side of the coin that psychologists are also studying is that we're creating entire generations of entitlement-minded and emotionally-fragile young adults.

I read a study not too long ago on how businesses were actually running into personnel issues because they were recruiting young people and finding that they required an enormous amount of upkeep, maintenance, hand-holding and constant rewarding and reinforcement because they had been raised in "Everyone's a winner" environments where even the smallest effort was worthy of lavish praise and even the smallest turmoil required calling in the cavalry to ensure the kids were protected.

ugh plebe

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Yep. As a manager, I was constantly dealing with stupid issues from immature young adults that couldn't handle even the smallest amount of criticism.

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Again, two entirely different things. You can be stern with a kid, while also allowing them to go through normal emotional hardships - but not allow him/her to go through some particularly trying emotional hardships, such as the double-punch of both being poor, and having to stand in a separate line because of it. You can attain the thickening of the skin that one needs without going through the latter. Cuddling through life and making sure they don't go through particularly tough times are two entirely separable things.

It's not perfectly analogous, but it's similar in a way to having black people stand in the colored line. Both are situations that kids were entirely born into. Now, you could say - well, just have the kid work for some cash for each lunch... but in all reality, at the age of say, 10? That just doesn't seem to be very efficient to me, they should be focusing their mind and efforts at school. And it's also undue hardship.

But the similarity comes in when you talk about emotional backdroppings. I know I for one wouldn't be calling the black guy a pussy for dealing with that and having some emotional problems because of it. It's just that there's a point where the injustice of something can get to a person, and it's separable from typical emotional hardships that are hard to deal for a kid all the same - losing a friend, usual making-fun-of that would already normally exist, dealing with normal emotional rigors of taking on additional responsibilities, etc etc. There comes a point where you just don't allow it to pile on.

Frankly I probably wouldn't say that if I hadn't known a couple people who went through exceptional hardships, both emotionally and physically. There does come a point where too many emotional problems detract from the normal thickening of skin, rather than toughening it up. Excessive coddling is equally bad, but there is indeed a middle ground.

That's not just "not perfect", it's absolutely horrible.

Snipped by me. Just curious if you're refering to the article that talked about how a company had to hire someone...I forget their job title...but their job was essentially to walk around, throw confetti on employees and be a cheerleader, praising them for how well they were doing blah blah blah. If so, I laughed my ass off at it. It almost read like an Onion piece.

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I definitely experienced Unique and Special Snowflake Syndrome when I went back to get my masters degree after being away from higher ed for about a decade. The shit that my fellow students saw fit to try to get away with was astounding to me.

I had always, always, always been under the impression that an exam on Chapters 4, 5, and 6 meant an exam on *everything* in chapters 4, 5, and 6. Lectures, book, homework problems, etc., was all fair game, whether it was ever covered in class or not.

Apparently, in the decade I was away from the classroom, that theory went by the wayside. People would bitch about exam questions that were on the slides, but not in the book, or in the book but not on the slides, or that only got covered in class, or that were from homework problems that weren't required homework problems, etc. It was just so very ridiculous, and I felt embarassed for them. Willingly shortchanging your educational experience just to have an A on your transcript just seems so sad to me.

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Hope is the new black.

Wanting to clarify what's going to be on your exam as to make your study time more efficient doesn't seem all that outlandish, however it seems that some were going a bit beyond that.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Oh, no, that's normal. I'm talking about actively complaining after the fact that topics that were only covered in class lectures were on the exam (in other words, it isn't fair that I can't skip class whenever I want and rely on the power point slides posted to the class website).

Or having a nervous breakdown over having to put away graphic calculators when the syllabus says in three different places that "a simple calculator limited to addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, square roots, and percentage functions is the only type of calculator allowed for exams" *and* the professor reminded everyone of that at the beginning and the end of the class period immediately prior to each exam.

Or publically bitching out a professor on the course website's bulletin board because you ended up with a 79.46 average for the semester, which translates into a "C" on an A / B / C / D / F scale. Not because you think that there were questions on a particular exam that were unfairly worded, but because the professor has an obligation to round a 79.46 up to an 80 (and thus, a B) to compensate for not offering extra credit during the semester. I *wish* I was making that one up - the idiot in question went on to land an intership I really wanted and then didn't get a job offer at the end of it, which shocked, well, no one.

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Hope is the new black.

Given that the intent of the analogy is to point out one particular thing in common between the two, that emotional distress can indeed be not only a serious issue but leave a lasting impact on a person - I fail to see the problem with it. Two pretty different situations with one commonality to stress the point in question doesn't really make it horrible.

Is it just me or does anyone else chuckle every time they see Venen post something about how kids should be raised?

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Honestly, I think I chuckle almost every time I see you post about raising kids =) For me at least, I'll have a tough time forgetting the time when macho dad came to the EverQuest forums to bitch and moan about his kid getting in trouble at school over and over. Very good times.

Interesting. The various posts Khan has made over the years about his kids has made me respect him a hell of a lot. I don't necessarily *like* him, and I doubt we would ever be friends IRL, but it has become very obvious that he's an involved parent who is actively trying to do right by his kids in particular, and kids in general. At the end of the day that carries more weight with me than whether or not I agree with him on a given political issue.

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Hope is the new black.

I don't doubt that he tries. I just found that a rather large cloud of irony swept over my being when I saw him post about that. You see the ad hominem stuff here, and he's a rather belligerent poster, and then all of the sudden he complains about his kid getting into fights. It was like, SHOCKER!!

We all have separate real lives that may or may not qualify us to make certain statements, though, Bearne. It's not like we all spill our guts about everything here, or perhaps we might have different viewpoints on what we're all qualified to say, or how much merit it holds =) For that reason, I tend to look at the arguments based on whatever they're worth word for word, as opposed to making assumptions about whether or not they hold merit.

By the same token, if Khan wants to go down the adhominem path as usual, I'm more than happy to make my contribution to his dialogue: That he doesn't quite come across as qualified himself if his kid is attacking people in school.

The sad part is, that kind of douchebaggery is pretty much encouraged now under the guise of "fighting for it".

And why not? If you fail, you lose nothing...succeed and you get a better transcript. No one even thinks about the lost imtregrity anymore. =(

I usually feel an overwhelming urge to lobotomize myself when I read your posts. We all have our individual burdens to bear.

Perhaps you should give into that particular urge?

I remember xKhanx's posts about his kids too, and I still feel the same way I did then now.

In other news, why do people keep portraying the cheese sandwich thing as an actual physical separation into a horrible "other" line? At our school, if students have a negative balance, they know before they even get into line, because they are given a note at the beginning of the day. The "cheese sandwich" alternative meal at our school is peanut butter and jelly, and it's right on the lunch line with everything else. They just take that. It's probably worth pointing out that any student, whether they are forced to or not, can choose to take those sandwiches. There is no singling out, and really it's just no big deal.

People cry about the silliest things sometimes.

Don't worry, I feel the exact same way about your posts with a lengthly quote of someone who did the thinking for you, and about 2 sentences worth of your own thought. If you had but a few additional brain cells, you'd be able to come up with a few rational points instead of your usual "Hai that soundz dumb!".

I assume you are referring to Joxur.

Oops, that was in response to Joxur not Fribur. Preview is my friend?

Anyway, I'm also in favor of said lobotimization.

I'm afraid I'd pass out before I could get the job done completely. Might need a buddy.

I wish there were free vasectomies out there for people, screw lobotomies.

This isn't directed at any of you. It's just how often lately I hope people I deal with are not pissing in the gene pool.

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Honestly, I think I chuckle almost every time I see you post about raising kids =) For me at least, I'll have a tough time forgetting the time when macho dad came to the EverQuest forums to bitch and moan about his kid getting in trouble at school over and over. Very good times.

That he doesn't quite come across as qualified himself if his kid is attacking people in school.

I guess all the hard work your dad made you do has affected your memory or perhaps just your comprehension. My son got attacked twice and defended himself. He never attacked anyone and hasn't been in a fight since then and that was what 3+yrs ago? If that is your ruler for over and over perhaps your dad made you get your lazy ass off the couch only a couple of times yet since it was inconvenient it seemed like a daily ritual.

Anyway, weren't you the kid who got passed around from family member to family member because he was such a little fucktard? It was either you or Skycrasher, and since I am old I get a pass on the bad memory.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Gawd, my ass got attacked constantly in JH/HS.

Wasn't a parenting issue on my end, it was a product of being the computer nerd with bad social skills and a hair growth problem.

Good thing I also knew how to knock a fucker out. <3 I hate fighting, but I will NOT just stand by and let someone harm me.

Seriously.

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Knowledge without reason is useless.

http://boxrockssocks.blogspot.com/

There's just not enough random murder in this country anymore.

Yea Khan, I must have missed those details in between your claims of a conspiracy and the teachers having a vendetta against you. My bad. I do remember something along the lines of your kid punching the other kid for shoving him, and giving him a black eye or some such. Could be wrong, I need to go back and read the thread for a chuckle or two. Then again you said he got into several fights.

That should be a wakeup call, dumbass. Maybe next time you'll cry your eyes out about it on 4chan for some additional insight into the matter.

On the latter note, I did indeed live in a few different households. Frankly, I kinda wish it was me being the reason, because it would've made me feel like I had a little more control over the situation. Moreso financial and other random circumstances; Well, in the case of my uncle it being a little hard to raise a kid from the hospital bed.

Yeah, 2 fights with 2 brothers one was 3 yrs older and he was attacked both times. He was a real hellion! You might want to go back and re-read it because your memory, just like your judgment, is poor at best. "Dumbass".

This is about the 3rd or 4th time you have brought this up about my boy. Every time is was in response to me saying that you basically don't have a clue how to raise or what is required to raise a child. This just makes you sound like a jealous little prick who can't stand the fact that someone takes the time to actually raise their kids the way they should be raised.

My Son - 10 consecutive honor rolls, two this year as a freshman taking academics courses not core. Started 10 games on the freshman football team, played in 3 Varsity games after freshman season was over. 6'4" 255lbs Benches 255, squats 365, deadlifts 405 and runs a 5.3 40. He says please and thank you and opens doors for women or the elderly. He cries every time when old yeller dies. He shovels the 90yr old mans driveway across the street when it snows and doesn't take money from him when offered. Unlike most teenage kids, he is pleasant to be around and can carry on a conversation with adults. He also has a part time job so he can get money to buy a car this summer.

My Daughter has never NOT been on the honor roll and is crushed if she doesn't get high honor roll, plays 1st chair in the orchestra, plays the piano and sings with the children's choir downtown. She throws shot and discus on the track team, starts for the 7th grade girls basketball team and wants to play softball this year.

I make breakfast every school morning and the entire family eats a real dinner not takeout, together every night at the dining room table. They don't go anywhere without asking, we talk to the parents if they are going over to someones house. We have never had a complaint and usually get a compliment on how well mannered our kids are after a stay over.

Personally, I think if you ever have kids they will be so fucked up they will either become another teen suicide statistic due to the world running over them or jail because they were never taught discipline. Either way, just do the world a favor and slam your nuts the microwave and turn it on high. That way we can all avoid the fucked up spawn that you and whomever you find with low enough self esteem to mate with you will surely put forth.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

It's been a while, but I think my own misgivings about that whole situation back then wasn't exactly what your child did, but how you handled it afterwards.

/shrug it's been so long I hardly remember. I just remember I didn't like it much.

You are correct Frib. You had taken the side of the administrators which is understandable and quite frankly expected since you are a teacher in the trenches. Nothing wrong with that at all.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Lol, make sure to submit that to Reader's Digest and maybe you'll find someone who cares Khan. Needless to say, I have my doubts that the picture is quite that rosy. Trust me though, jealousy is the furthest thing from my mind. I'm more or less a little ticked that you probably won't be posting any more "problems" that you have on here about raising your kids.

I somehow think that Khan is doing a far finer job with his kids than your parents did with you.

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Some people here need to get a room and grudge fuck, that's all there is to it.

Lol, thanks Tyral, I'm leaning towards that being a compliment from a guy who can't seem to hold a civil discussion if his life depended on it. Honestly, if it was anything I would have taken from my parents(or any parents, for that matter), it'd be that capability. That, and maybe a lacking of yours and Khan's type of belligerence. God knows we need less firestarters in the world =)

If you equate being a douchebag with having a civil discussion, then you have it made venen.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I looked afar for Anathae
Hir presence sorely missed
I ventured out for Livak
Too long gone from our midst
I fancied thoughts for Xianle
Her deeds in poem and song
But Venen, O sweet Venen
Why, he's been here all along

That was awesome, sir.

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I'll give that one more props than the programming one. I think I saw a near exact replica on the FOH boards or some such =x

Unfortunately Vanamar, civil discussion is nigh impossible when it begins with an insult. It certainly could be attempted, but I'd say it's a waste of time with someone like Khan or Tyral. Far more enjoyable to respond with precisely what they dish out =)

On that note, I'm hoping we can get a more detailed post from Khan defending his kids. I think we need more "he made da honor rollz" to balance out the fighting, as it seems to be that is required for justification (Or at least by Khan's own defense!).

I...I love you.

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I have to ask: What were the noteworthy incident(s) with Anathae? It's not the first time I've seen that person mentioned by Syuni(usually seems to appear at this top of his list too). I actually barely remember him/her... somewhat emo attention-whorish as I recall? My Lanys history is lacking in this department.

I just wish Livak and Xianle hadn't wimped out and disappeared! Maybe throw in some Aste for good measure.

ahhh Aste.. I always disliked him.

I don't want to talk about it.

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Ah, the Astehole. Good times, good times.

Anathae was the male-to-female transgendered person who, if I remember correctly, a) started a cyber relationship with her married guildmaster who didn't know she was a transgendered and whose kids were also in the guild, then b) somehow transferred that cyber relationship into real life, followed by c) bringing the entire thing to the boards where it all blew up into a poorly-written (spelling, grammar, exposition) 'he said, she said' involving at least three or four different parties.

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Hope is the new black.

And that was just Act I.

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Hope is the new black.