From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29385572/


There's more, but the jist is that people are bitching that schools are punishing kids because the parents can't afford to pay. It's the most ridiculous, asinine thing I've ever heard of. In MY kids' school, if you end up going more than $5 into the negatives on a lunch account, the kid doesn't get fed. Period. They call you and let you know, hey, pay your fucking bill.

What I really don't understand is this: how is it the parents can't afford to buy their kid lunch, but also apparently can't afford to make them a lunch to take with them or don't qualify for the free/reduced lunch program that every school I've ever even heard of provides?

Fucking stupid. These assholes should just be happy their little rugrats are being fed something. They want to bitch that it's degrading to their kids? You know what's degrading? Your parent making a public spectacle about their inability to feed their kid, that's degrading.

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What's wrong with a cheese sandwich, fruit and milk, anyway? Might actually keep the little fuckers in shape.

The funny part about this is that the cheese sandwich, fruit and milk are probably healthier than what the kid would have chosen in the lunch line had they been allowed to go through.

But you are right, if my kids accounts get below $5 they send a note letting us know. If the acct isn't funded after it goes below Zero then no more chow. My kids have gone without several times because they failed to tell us their acct was empty.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

That actually boggles my mind. Most people usually don't get shit for free. These kids get free food and people bitch that's it's not good enough free shit.

The kids are offered a PB&J & milk at their school here, if they forget their lunch money, but their account is debited a nominal amount for it. If a kid can't remember their lunch money (or simply doesn't have any) for a few days in a row, a note is sent home. Additionally, in this county we have online prepayments so anyone with even occasional web access and a bank account can make sure their kids don't run out of cash.

You know damn well those kids aren't getting steak and lobster normally. I wonder what is so horrifying about eating cheese sandwiches?

The school should stop giving away food, and instead contact CPS about these parents not providing food for their kids.

Shit, I'd be happy if someone gave me a free cheese sandwich with some fruit and milk right now.

That sounds like a fairly balanced meal to me.

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Hope is the new black.

man now i gots the cheese sandwich munchies

That sounds like what I took for lunch most days when I was in elementary school.

Sandwich (prepackaged meat slice and cheese or PB&J), fruit (apple, pear, or orange) and drink (Juice of some sort that would keep in a thermos)

I wonder how many kids wish they had the option of the cheese sandwich, fruit, and milk instead of whatever's on the menu on most days.

I like mustard on my cheese sandwiches.

I like my biscuits with mustard.

Mmhmmm.

The do this were my kids go to school, is it fair to the Kids? No
Is it fair that My wife and I who send in our lunch money also have to pay more in property taxes to pay for the defaecate that is caused by this? If these people can't afford it there are programs to deal with that, but where the schools are having issues is with the people that can afford to pay but just don't.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Kula: Yep!

At least their not being fed bread and water.

Who is this dumbass Devil anyway?

Apparently I am a retarded uneducated dumb ass.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

I'm still trying to figure out what's so bad about a free sandwich, fruit and milk. Sounds like a damn fine lunch to me.

He's fresh meat, but let's not be too hard on him, we need more new faces the gene pool is getting a bit shallow.

It certainly sounds healthier than chicken nuggets, tater tots, and a brownie.

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Hope is the new black.

hey whats wrong with brownies? They have good hurbs in them.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Devil is Fribur's Bizarro World Twin.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

He reminds me of Doctor X's puppy. Or maybe a hedgehog.

I'm cuter.

Devil is from Ogame!

And yeah Albuquerque is a soft state but we cant seem to fucking pass a domestic partnership in 4 years and counting.

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"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala

Ogame is fucking weak.

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I played it for 2 days before I got bored. Let's give it some credit, here! =p

The issue is that the kids being given the cheese sandwiches are being singled out.

Children who are poor can have a difficult time in school, and a lot of effort has been made to ensure that they get their FREE lunch in a manner that doesn't scream FREE LUNCH BECAUSE YOU ARE POOOOOOOR. Why? Because there are kids who would rather go hungry than be different or be teased about it.

Children in homes with economic problems also face a lot of additional stress. Money is the number one thing argued about by couples. If there's a couple in the home, odds are high that money is a big stress for them. Additionally they may not have a stable living environment blah blah blah blah blah.

Bottom line, it's not about the fact that the kid is getting a cold lunch. It's about the fact that for a kid getting a 'cheese sammich' becomes a point of teasing and taunting.

HOWEVER -pointing a finger at the districts and demanding they do something is also asinine. Right now most districts are in serious financial trouble and they simply cannot afford to feed the extra number of kids. Parents need to get the fuck off their asses and apply for the food programs. The parameters tend to be pretty liberal. If their kid doesn't qualify then they need to find out where to go/what to do to change that policy.

And then perhaps hit a food bank so they can provide a basic, if crappy, lunch for their kid, (aka PB&J + apple) so their kid actually eats and doesn't feel ostrasized.

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Kids get made fun of in school, that's hot new info.

Yeah, I guess you skipped my whole parental responsibility part because that shit is boring. /rolleyes. Maybe you can paraphrase something I said and add it like it's new to the discussion instead?

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10 PRINT "HAVE YOU BEEN TOLD?"
20 IF TOLD=Y, GOTO 30, ELSE GOTO 20
30 PRINT "OH SNAP!"

I must be missing something here, then, Tarot, because there were days when I was a kid and didn't have any lunch money, and I just skipped lunch. It *never* would have occurred to me to just walk up into the lunch line and expect to be served free food. Maybe it is a generational thing, but my generation just didn't have that whacked sense of entitlement.

I don't feel like my parents were excessively harsh in that regard. We were poor, but not poor enough to qualify for free lunch, and some days there just wasn't the cash and I didn't get around to making my lunch.

I got a paper route when I was 10. In addition to money for 'stuff,' I was always expected to either make lunch from home or use my paper route money to buy lunch at school. If I didn't do either, it was my own fault.

I was teased, bullied, etc., every day until high school, when I finally found enough people like myself that we could band together. If getting a cheese sandwich and an apple for free was the worst thing that had happened to me on a given day, I would have been psyched.

The whole thing just seems to me like another example of the ridiculousnees of "Unique and Special Snowflake Syndorme."

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Hope is the new black.

And, if I did bring lunch from home, it was usually some pretzels, a cheese sandwich or a PB&J sandwich, and a piece of fruit. So, yeah. Pretty much zero sympathy here.

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Hope is the new black.

Different people get smacked down by different things, it all depends on circumstance. For some, not being able to have that lunch most of the time could be the tipping point of an already-teetering iceberg for a kid. That goes along with what was said about poorer families having a higher tendency of instability.

I believe Tarot's point was more along the lines of - just because you went through it, doesn't mean other generations should have to, or need to go through it, or even should subscribe to the notion that it somehow makes them stronger to earn your own food - out of the millions of things you can "earn" in this world.

It might be an asset if we lived in a hunter-gatherer society. In an increasingly intellectually-demanding and complex world, getting a full meal should be one of the last things kids should have to worry about. We produce more food than we ever have, and we easily have enough to spare for kids' lunches.

It's exciting and all to hear the burdensome stories, but let's not be quite so quick to allow for the same burdens on others for no particular reason other than because we went through them. I hesitate to go down that road of: "Well, I got shot in the face by a gangster and lost vision in my right eye. It's not so bad, and it toughened me up. Everyone should have to go through that, young whippersnappers."

I'm not sure how the parental responsibility part has anything to do with me addressing your "zomg kids might get teased!" argument. But good snappy comeback I guess...snappy but innaccurate?

I'm guessing the difference, Venen, is that I've never viewed those experiences in microeconomic reality as a burden, but rather as life lessons is how to be self-sufficient.

Unlike a lot gay kids of my generation, when I got kicked out of the house, I was able pretty quickly to get a job and get an apartment rather than ending up on the streets. I had already been working for five or six years, already had money of my own sitting in a savings account, knew how to start a checking account, etc. And two years later, I was enrolled in community college full time while still supporting myself financially.

For all of the things my parents did that were extremely fucked up, I'm very very grateful that I learned early on that if you want to eat junk food, you want to pick out your own clothes, etc., you get a job and you go to work, and you put anything you don't need to spend into savings.

So the cheese sandwich thing? I consider it whining born out of a misplaced sense of entitlement. That girl who "doesn't want to go back to school" got pulled out the line for *kids with lunch money.* Where does that sense that one deserves nuggets and tater tots instead of a cheese sandwich and fruit come from? If she had just gone to the "cheese sandwich" line, she wouldn't have gotten called out in front of everyone. Better that she learn now that the rules apply to everyone, including her, then when she gets her first "D" in college or her first bad job review.

I can tell you one thing: for all that his posts drive me crazy, I know that Khan's kids aren't sniveling little special snowflakes whining about cheese sandwiches. Thank goodness there are still some people who understand the difference between "parent" and "friend."

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Hope is the new black.

/grunt

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

There's a reason I hate everyone else's kids. I can't imagine why some parents let their little snot-nosed shits get away with the shit they get away with. My kids would get their asses tanned for some of the crap I see go down.

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Bearne: I totally get where you're coming from, but let me put this question out there...

If kids are shown to do better in school when they eat lunch, don't we have a vested interest in making lunch available to them -- especially if they can't afford it?

Don't you mean their parents have a vested interest?

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shit, I have the exact same belief as Tyral.

Tyral that is call "personal baby Jesus" syndrome where those parents are blind to the crap that their own baby Jesus is doing because they can do no wrong, ignoring the fact that their snot-nosed kid is running around wielding a bloody knife.

They can get reduced or free lunch the parents just need to apply for it and they can do this anytime though out the year, so if there jobs change like they lose it, they can make sure that there kids are taking care of as far as lunch is concerned.



shit I do too... I can't stand people who think there(their) kids can do no wrong. I stand up for my kids but I am also the first to point out when they are wrong and why it is wrong.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Sure, Leo, but I think this is a question of what the kids are fed, not if they get fed. This is coming down to "should parents who don't send their kids to school with lunch money bitch when their kids get handed a cheese sandwich?" And my answer is that, no, they shouldn't be bitching.

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Hope is the new black.

Tyral: I'd go so far as to say their parents have the greatest interest, but I wouldn't say the only one. Their school certainly does also:
- Administrators who set policy
- Teachers who have to implement those policies in the classroom
- Other students who might otherwise be disturbed
- Parents of other students who have the greatest interest in their own children receiving a solid education

Those are just the immediate folks who benefit. I'm not going to stretch the argument to its limits (which laughably would probably look like an allegory of someone getting shot on a mugging because some kid dropped out of school or couldn't get a decent job, but that could have been prevented if we just fed the damn kid).

I think those immediate effects would be enough of a reason for us to get behind this.

The simpler question is: If we or our kids were in a similar position, wouldn't we want the same thing? The cost of two slices of bread, some cheese, a piece of fruit, and a milk carton are minimal.

Bearne: Totally agree.

I dunno, Leo has a good point. Ideally the parents should pay for it, but if they don't or are too stupid to? I mean, we take kids away from abusive parents via child protective services... instead of simply waving our hands away and saying "Parents should have a vested interest in not abusing their kids". I think at some point we have to do what is right for the kids regardless of what the parents do.

I read Bearne/Devil's post just now, so I'd put it a different way in terms of *what* they eat: Are kids doing better in school when they have that one less thing to worry about or get made fun of over when they step into the "poor people's line"?

I can't say this line of thought would work for me. I was brought up on similar principles that bearne outlined. My father made me work for almost every lunch I got out of the family. But, by the same token, I have an entirely different perspective on what *should* be for *others*. I refuse to look at my own situation and then decide that it is best for everyone else.

I'm not sure I'd label common sense as a principle.

Then again, in this day and age, perhaps we should not take it for granted. Nevermind, carry on!

Ok, lets go like this, I was raised by a single parent, she did not really work much at all, and I got free lunches and was not treated any different, why because my my mom sent in the paper work. I guess that's my point and that is the point of this policy, its not to punish kids or make them different it, its to try to make things a fair as possible for those that take the time to do the paperwork or to send money in. There are too many people that can afford the school launch but have also not been doing there part to contribute.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

What if they're too stupid to pay their rent and end up in the street? What if they're too dumb to avoid insulting their boss so they lose their job and income? What if they fail to file for unemployment?

Are we going to hold their fucking hand the whole time because they have kids? No. What needs to happen is CPS needs to stop by and ask them why they aren't arranging for their child to have lunch.

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Too bad for you that you had to do something besides watch TV or play EQ all day. Boo-Fucking-Hoo for you. Big fat Atta-Boy for your torturous dad.

Pulling the kids out of line did 2 things. It got the kid's atention AND it got the deadbeat parent's atention. Now when the kid is almost out of lunch money I bet he takes the fucking note home and lets mommy/daddy know they are out of money. I bet now they either send their kids with the money or apply for reduced/free lunches.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Hah, if I had played EQ back then I don't think he would have stopped at merely paying for meals! Good for a chuckle at least - always a pleasure Khan.

In some ways it was good for me at the time, so in a way I agree that he did the right thing. But I don't automatically jump to the conclusion that it's going to be the right thing to do in everyone's case.

There's a lot of middle ground between being Macho-dictator-parent, and being adoring friend/anything for you.



The intent of whether it's to punish the kids is somewhat irrelevant. What matters is the end result here.

Further, fairness is in the eye of the beholder here. I don't feel as if I've been magically mistreated just because someone else is getting a free lunch when I spent my time earning it. The reward for me is in knowing I did it, not because Joe over there is getting freebies. I understand that there are people out there that spend all their time focusing on what "the other guy is getting/doing", but that hardly equates to not being fair. Is it fair that there are running pipes and water underground that poorer people who pay proportianately fewer taxes get the benefit of? This, to me, is one of those basic necessities kids going to school should have.

I know some think filing that paperwork is arduous, which is silly, but why doesn't the same question of "fairness" remain in that circumstance?



In the cases you mentioned, my only question is: How does it affect the innocent kid who had nothing whatsoever to do with said parents poor decisions? There are plenty of cases where parents have made stupid decisions, filed the necessary paperwork to get low-income or welfare benefits for their kids. Not really unusual to happen.

I'd much prefer parents do their job, but it still falls to society when an innocent person(such as a child with neglecting parents) falls through the cracks for no other reason than what they were born into.

At which point we either force the parent to do their job, or we take the child away from them. We shouldn't be doing half-assed measures that encourage bad parenting.

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Yup.

It's really sickening to see people basically handing people free passes for their laziness, ineptitude, whatever...all because they say, "....but I have a kid...."

I actually have no problem paying for the kid's lunch. The school gives em a cheese sandwich when the poor fuckers are down and out. Thumbs up in my book. Parents come in and complain that the food isn't "good enough"? Fuck em. (The kid can still get the sandwich, though.)

There are bullshit kids too, though. The 'emotional stress by getting pulled out of the line for kids with money to buy lunch' kids can rotate my balls with their tongue.

But...but....Bz....THINK OF THE CHILDREN

I doubt anyone (okay MOST people) wish to do that. The point is why should the kid pay for the sins of the parent? THAT'S what is bullshit.

And as far as the chest thumping...'TAKE THE KIDS AWAY THEN' bullshit goes...for fuck's sake.

First off it demonstrates a disgraceful lack of knowledge of how the social system works. Go ask any police officer who's been in ANY department that deals with people at their homes about how CPS works. If you're basing your information on the media, which covers the extremely rare cases of a parent losing a child to a knee jerk overreaction...you're wrong.

CPS will leave kids in unbelievably shitty situations provided:

-the child is safe from immediate harm (often even when abuse has occurred)
-there is food
-there's some shelter
-there is legal supervision

If you're going with the media as a knowledge base, perhaps a more reliable resource would be those stories where a kid is finally beat to death. It's not entirely accurate either, but it's more descriptive.

CPS is not going to remove a child from it's home and toss them in foster care because the parents are too fucking lazy or stupid to provide the child with a school lunch.

Hell, talk to a teacher. CPS doesn't even remove kids covered in bruises made to sleep outside an apartment because their prostitute mother is turning tricks for her drug habit.

But I digress.

In California, at least prior to high school in the schools I'm familiar with (public schools) kids aren't allowed to skip lunch. So a poor kid can't simply STFU and skip a meal. However, prior to the recession what was done is that the kid was fed, because schools ALWAYS over order lunches.

There were always left overs for the kids who are flaky. Then those kids either get in trouble for being flakes, or their parents get called in and are told to sign up for the free lunches or start making lunch for their kid.

But now it's not just the 1%. It's a much higher percentage.

As far as 'the kid should know they don't have money on the books'...how many kids are seeing Dad out of work, Mom trying to make ends meet with her job, the house in foreclosure, parents stressed to the fucking end of their rope about money...

and the kid is going to be bop into the house asking for lunch money?

In some cases they're simply not going to want to add to the stress of the situation. In other cases, they might be afraid to ask their parents. In some situations the kid doesn't want to be an additional burden, and probably knows just from seeing it around, that the other kids just get lunches anyway since no one can skip.

People are jumping all over the 'whining kid' like "HOW DARE THEY"...first off, it's a parent who said it, not the kid. These parents know they're at fucking fault and they're probably seeing a very upset child. Rather than focusing on their personal situation, oh noes, they're displacing their anger and outrage. Gee, no one ever does that!

And really the one thing people should be able to agree upon is that unless these kids are in high school (though I was working at 13) ...they probably can't get a job. And right now it's hard for ANYONE to get a job. So they're largely victims of circumstance.

They can't do anything about their situation. Except of course shut up and eat the cheese sammich, and a lot of kids are probably doing just that rather than adding to their parents financial concerns.

And even the parents might not be the complete bad guy here, they may simply be so overwhelmed by everything else they don't realize they can apply for the lunch program. I'm NOT excusing it, fucking over your kid's food isn't something I'm giving them a pass on. But that's where it's helpful for the school to step in and tell them to get their fucking asses down there and apply.

But the schools aren't giving out cheese sammiches to be dicks. They've ALWAYS given these kids hot lunches before, because again...enough overhead to do so.

Doesn't it tell you guys anything that now there's not? It's that big a problem now. And the school can't afford to buy the lunch, there's no budget for that. It can be paid for by the state, but they have to apply.

Last word: Devil...seriously stfu about whining about paying property taxes for kids to eat. I don't even HAVE children, so people like me are paying for your spawn to attend school. Unlike you, I'm more than happy to pay for them to have a full stomach so they can focus on their education, because when I'm old, I'd like to have a decently educated generation taking care of shit.

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Your right we should pay more taxes for all of the families that can pay but just don't want to.

I am talking about the families that can afford to send the 2.00 for lunch and they don't send in the lunch money, that is who these programs are geared towards.

Here is what I send for my three spawn, to eat for the month $100.00 we are not talking about a lot of money here, that is what bathers me.

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Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Those parents can eat a bag of dicks, agreed. And I'd have no problems with punishment for those parents at all. Give them some type of court citation, huge fine, parenting classes, whatever I'm good with it.

Fucking boot their cars!

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