It is currently Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:11 AM


All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:41 AM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
Constitutional protections apply to all persons on U.S. soil, regardless of citizenship status.

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:53 AM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
Well, to clarify, all persons on U.S. soil that aren't here as, say, an attacking army. Anyone here on a work or tourist visa, resident alien, etc., is entitled to habeus corpus, the right to a jury trial, etc. The use of Gitmo as a detention center arose from its status as non-US soil, in order to create cover for claiming that its detainees were exempt from Constitutional protections.

The Supreme Court last summer ruled that all Gitmo detainees retain the right of habeus corpus.

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:39 PM 
I've pwned over 300 times!
I've pwned over 300 times!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:17 PM
Posts: 333
Location: in the cold
thank you for clearing that up, bearne.

So if technically Gitmo is part of the US, and the detainees are not an attacking army then, by all means they should be habeus corpus. I guess I was under the wrong impression that habeus corpus only applies to a U.S. Citizen.
Now it also makes sense to me why Former President Bush, suspended it.

_________________
Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:45 PM 
Train Right Side!
Train Right Side!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:08 PM
Posts: 955
Location: Boston
Quote:
February 26, 2009
Al-Marri Indictment Today [UPDATED]
[Update: According to sources familiar with the case, the Obama Justice Department indicted Marri this afternoon. The sealed indictment was handed up by a federal grand jury in Peoria, Illinois.]

The Obama Administration appears close to resolving the case of Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, the alleged Al Qaeda “sleeper agent” who is the only so-called “illegal enemy combatant” imprisoned inside the United States.

As I wrote in last week’s issue, Marri has been held for the past five years in indefinite executive detention in the U.S. Naval Consolidated brig in Charleston, South Carolina—despite having never stood trial or been convicted of any crime. But according to sources close to the case, a federal grand jury is meeting today in Peoria, Illinois, and may indict Marri on multiple terrorism charges, including providing material support for terrorism. Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Justice Department on national-security issues, declined to comment, as did Marri’s lawyers.

An indictment would signal a major shift in legal policy from the Bush years. It would also fulfill President Obama’s campaign pledge to restore traditional American legal practices by treating terror suspects as common criminals, rather than stripping them of standard legal rights and classifying them neither as criminal defendants nor prisoners of war.

Obama has been forced to grapple with the Marri case because the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a challenge contesting the legality of his prolonged and indefinite detention. The Supreme Court agreed to hear the case this spring, requiring the Obama Administration to file papers stating its position by March 23rd. The federal grand jury in Peoria meets only once a month, so today is likely the last chance to indict Marri before the Supreme Court’s deadline. An indictment would transfer Marri from military detention into the criminal-justice system, perhaps rendering the Supreme Court case moot.

Human-rights groups and civil-liberties lawyers are watching the situation closely, as an indicator of whether the Obama Adminstration will support the Bush Administration’s aggressive claims to executive detention powers in the war on terror.


source: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... today.html

_________________
Hope is the new black.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:13 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:22 AM
Posts: 3609
Location: DFW
EQ1: Ghaani (retired)
WoW: Gabbath (retired)
Rift: Gabbath (retired)
SWOR: Gabbath/Gh'anni (retired)
Court rejects Obama bid to stop wiretapping suit
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration has lost its argument that the state secrets privilege is a good enough reason to stop a lawsuit over the government's warrantless wiretapping program.

A federal appeals court in San Francisco has rejected the Justice Department's request for an emergency stay. The Obama administration, like the Bush administration before it, claimed that national security would be compromised if a lawsuit brought by the U.S. chapter of an Islamic charity was allowed to proceed.

The case was brought by the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, a defunct charity with a chapter in Oregon.

The appeals court decision is a setback for the new Obama administration as it adopts some of the same positions on national security and secrecy as the Bush administration.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:56 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
More hopenchange.

Handling Of 'State Secrets' At Issue
Like Predecessor, New Justice Dept. Claiming Privilege
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

Quote:
In the al-Haramain case, Obama has not only maintained the Bush administration approach, but the dispute has intensified, with the Justice Department warning that if the judge does not change his mind, authorities could spirit away the top-secret documents.

"Any way you look at it, it's pretty remarkable," said Jon B. Eisenberg, an attorney for al-Haramain. "This is an executive branch threat to exercise control over a judicial branch function."
Once you give the government power to do something, it's almost impossible to take it away. I really hope it goes before the supreme court. It would be nice to know if the whole country has gone off the deep end, or just the legislative and executive branches.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:38 PM 
Froaaak!!!
Froaaak!!!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:10 AM
Posts: 1859
Location: San Antonio, TX
EQ1: Rugen Payne
WoW: Mathaen
Quote:
"'Repent, Harlequin!' said the Ticktockman.


I love that you know that story.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:45 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
bling.

White House Is Drafting Executive Order to Allow Indefinite Detention of Terror Suspects
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

Another one bites the dust.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:00 PM 
I've pwned over 300 times!
I've pwned over 300 times!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:17 PM
Posts: 333
Location: in the cold
I have heard that most of the current administration’s foreign policy are not different then the last administrations.

_________________
Devil

Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the night.
Set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:41 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:22 AM
Posts: 3609
Location: DFW
EQ1: Ghaani (retired)
WoW: Gabbath (retired)
Rift: Gabbath (retired)
SWOR: Gabbath/Gh'anni (retired)
Yep, Change you can believe in.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:48 AM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5011
So you guys are happy, right? He's a Republican torturer in disguise! You can sleep in peace now.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:49 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Plenty of room under the rug for this one. Right next to the fierce moral urgency of gay rights.

Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 PM
Posts: 3926
Hey how clever that looks like a politician sweeping something under the rug.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:12 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Detainees, Even if Acquitted, Might Not Go Free
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1246996 ... lenews_wsj

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration said Tuesday it could continue to imprison non-U.S. citizens indefinitely even if they have been acquitted of terrorism charges by a U.S. military commission.

Jeh Johnson, the Defense Department's chief lawyer, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that releasing a detainee who has been tried and found not guilty was a policy decision that officials would make based on their estimate of whether the prisoner posed a future threat.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:12 AM 
Cazicthule Bait
Cazicthule Bait

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:27 PM
Posts: 297
Location: The Sandbox
I thought that Bush was out of office?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:29 AM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
The whole "torture only produces bad info" thing has irked me for a while now. It's become somewhat folklore that it never works, but I'm wondering what the factual basis is. I won't doubt that there aren't studies out there done, but I do question their validity.


It is bunk. I can tell you from experience watching the company guys in Honduras do stuff as simple as making a prisoner stay in the front leaning rest (push up position) and kicking them in the side if they dropped or touched that 95% of the time we got reliable intel on weapons caches and squad locations. Then again, when Battalion 316 hung 3 people from trees and skinned alive one of them, the other two also sang like birds. In El Salvadore, Sombra Negra also used some pretty creative ways to extract info from prisoners. Fun times. I still wake up at night in a cold sweat at least 1-2 times a year from memories of it.

The "inhumane" kind of torture those poor guys had to endure in gitmo kinda makes me giggle when I hear someone whine about how bad it is.

The world should be all Rainbows and Unicorns!.... fucking clueless

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:32 AM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:39 PM
Posts: 5011
Yeah... "fun times." What the fuck is wrong with you?


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:01 AM 
Grrrrrrrr!
Grrrrrrrr!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:27 AM
Posts: 2318
Location: KC, MO
Fribur wrote:
Yeah... "fun times." What the fuck is wrong with you?


I lol'd.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:38 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Our torture now is the diet coke of torture. Just one calorie - not evil enough.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:58 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
More from Glenn Greenwald:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... /08/obama/

Quote:
About this assertion of "presidential post-acquittal detention power" -- an Orwellian term (and a Kafka-esque concept) that should send shivers down the spine of anyone who cares at all about the most basic liberties -- Ackerman wrote, with some understatement, that it "moved the Obama administration into new territory from a civil liberties perspective."


Quote:
In June, Robert Gibbs was repeatedly asked by ABC News' Jake Tapper whether accused Terrorists who were given a trial and were acquitted would be released as a result of the acquittal, but Gibbs -- amazingly -- refused to make that commitment. But this is the first time an Obama official has affirmatively stated that they have the "post-acquittal detention" power (and, to my knowledge, the Bush administration never claimed the power to detain someone even if they were acquitted).


Quote:
Whatever else is true, even talking about imprisoning people based on accusations of which they have been exonerated is a truly grotesque perversion of everything that our justice system and Constitution are supposed to guarantee. That's one of those propositions that ought to be too self-evident to need stating.


Quote:
Several related points: Spencer also notes that Johnson testified yesterday about the possibility that Guantanamo might remain open beyond January, 2010 -- the date Obama, to much fanfare, established as the deadline for closing that prison. That decision is one of the very few to which Obama defenders can cling in order to claim there are significant differences between his approach to these issues and the Bush/Cheney approach.

Meanwhile, former Guantanamo detainee Binyam Mohamed is engaged in what The Guardian calls "an urgent legal attempt to prevent the US courts from destroying crucial evidence that he says proves he was abused while being held at the detention camp detainee." The photographs -- which show Mohamed after he had been severely beaten and which he claims was posted on the door to his cage "because he had been beaten so badly that it was difficult for the guards to identify him" -- is scheduled to be destroyed by the U.S. Government, an act The Washington Independent's Alexandra Jaffe calls "another black mark on the Obama administration’s promised transparency."


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:16 AM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:54 PM
Posts: 4156
Location: Atlanta, GA
EQ1: Vanamar
WoW: Kallaystra
Rift: Tarathia
joxur -- not to derail, but I asked you a question in the arts forum, respond plx.

_________________

World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:03 PM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
Yeah... "fun times." What the fuck is wrong with you?


Damn Frib, it wasn't meant literally ya wanker.

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:53 AM 
Can dish it but can't take it!
Can dish it but can't take it!

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:12 PM
Posts: 132
Yeah, that was clearly sarcasm. Unpleasant even to try to imagine someone being skinned alive or other "creative" forms of interrogation.

I'm not sure the anecdotal circumstances translate to gitmo detainees. I'm unconvinced.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:44 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 PM
Posts: 3926
I nearly fell for it, and I was so excited that me and Khan had finally found some common ground on the worst of subjects.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:48 AM 
Can dish it but can't take it!
Can dish it but can't take it!

Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:12 PM
Posts: 132
Only the "fun times" was sarcasm Venen.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:52 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 PM
Posts: 3926
I see now. Color me excitable again.

On a slightly different note... MORE FROM GLENN GREENWALD:

"Well, one of the differences that strikes me between National Guard units and regular U.S. Army brigades, is that the National Guard is essentially trained to be a domestic force and to engage in these kind of emergency response functions"

Bolded for hilarity.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:26 AM 
Shelf is CAMPED!!
Shelf is CAMPED!!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:17 AM
Posts: 1914
Location: Prescott, AZ
EQ1: Tyral
Venen wrote:
I see now. Color me excitable again.

On a slightly different note... MORE FROM GLENN GREENWALD:

"Well, one of the differences that strikes me between National Guard units and regular U.S. Army brigades, is that the National Guard is essentially trained to be a domestic force and to engage in these kind of emergency response functions"

Bolded for hilarity.

Technically, he's right. Even though we've relied heavily on the National Guard for deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, that's not their primary function. And the only reason we've been sending them in the first place is because we overextended ourselves.

_________________
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:29 AM 
Grrrrrrrr!
Grrrrrrrr!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:27 AM
Posts: 2318
Location: KC, MO
Yeah, I really didn't get the funny there.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:58 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:07 PM
Posts: 2689
You didn't see the funny because you put your computer together wrong.

.....sorry


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:05 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Maybe if you had attempted Algalon, you'd know what Venen knows.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:04 PM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:58 AM
Posts: 1967
EQ1: Xkhan
WoW: Xkhan
Quote:
You didn't see the funny because you put your computer together wrong.


Coffee, meet monitor.

_________________
Image
_____
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:09 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:22 AM
Posts: 3609
Location: DFW
EQ1: Ghaani (retired)
WoW: Gabbath (retired)
Rift: Gabbath (retired)
SWOR: Gabbath/Gh'anni (retired)
Each State Governor is the Commander-in-Chief to their National Guard. That is why you see Texas National Gard, Missouri National Guard, Michigan National Guard, etc. Their primary function is to serve at the discretion of the Governor to assist with any emergencies there. They will, and do serve on deployments, but must have consent by the state's governor.

The US Army/Navy/Air Force/Marine Reserves are a reserve component of each full time branch and serve at the discretion of their Chain of Command, which is topped by the President.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:22 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:35 PM
Posts: 3926
I figured the funny was obvious: The National Guard is typically considered a domestic-response force, however, they are TRAINED to be a force capable of fighting on ALL fronts if necessary. Thus the stupidity of suggesting they are *only* trained to be a domestic force.

And as always Bov, if you need help getting a game to run that innumerable people were able to without a hitch, I'll be happy to help :)


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:27 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Awesome prank, Farva.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:32 PM 
Bored Guru
Bored Guru
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:29 PM
Posts: 934
EQ1: Worthy
WoW: Worthy
Image


Top
Offline Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:22 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:39 AM
Posts: 4109
Drudge: SECOND STIMULUS PACKAGE! That's awesome, heh.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y