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 Post subject: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:01 PM 
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a post yet. It's been over for at least 15 or 20 minutes!

Wondering what everyone's thoughts are about it. I thought he did a pretty decent job. I liked his little misstep when taking the Oath of Office...it showed how nervous he was (a little bit of humanity goes a long way, or something).

I didn't agree with everything he said, but most of it was what I expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:06 PM 
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loved that non-believers got a shout out.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:06 PM 
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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:13 PM 
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It wasn't bad and it wasn't great. Could have been a little more gracious to the former president, but I'm not exactly upset about it. When Bush' helicopter was flying away, the public crowd that was watching inside CNN Center (which was friggin packed) waved goodbye quite jovially, which was pretty amusing.

I kept thinking that those who spent all that time getting there to watch might have been a little disappointed by how brief it was.

The John Williams' composed music was my personal favorite. The awful poetry was my least. Talk about killing a good moment, to have her come in right after Obama's speech with that stuff. I still remember Maya Angelou's awful poem at one of the previous inaugurations. Competing for low point was all the trash I saw on the National Mall when people started leaving. Although, I've been to the Mall in the past year, and I think all of that trash was already there. heh


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:23 PM 
Lois Lane!

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rugen wrote:
loved that non-believers got a shout out.


Hah, yeah, I loved that, too.

Joxur: About him referring to the former president, I noticed how when Obama started talking about not giving up ideals for expedience's sake, it cut to Bush.

Quote:
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake.


I thought the camera's cut to him (i don't know if all stations did it, or just the one I was watching) was poorly done. I know I was thinking, "I wonder what Bush thinks of that comment," but it was still in poor taste to shine the camera on the man when talking about giving up ideals.

Bush also looked close to tears a couple of times. I think he's going to miss the office.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:24 PM 
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Lots of subtle slights to Bush, which were deserved. What Bushie was doing wasn't working.

I'm glad we've ushered in a new era and can't wait to see what the next few years have to hold.

PS: Aretha Franklin suckedddddddddddddddddddddddddd.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:34 PM 
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"Know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."

was probably my favorite quote.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:52 PM 
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I was offended by the benediction.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:07 PM 
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rugen wrote:
"Know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy."

was probably my favorite quote.


yeah that was awesome. i also liked that we chose hope over fear BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE CAMPAIGN WAS

personally i thought the stakes were huge for this speech as he's such a milestone president, and i wasn't particularly inspired by it, but i think the time to talk a big game is over, now it's time to make shit happen

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:38 PM 
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Quote:
I liked his little misstep when taking the Oath of Office


I think this may almost have been my favorite part. God only knows what he was thinking right after he couldn't remember the next part of the line. I would feel like smacking myself over and over for that - I know you can't fret the little things, but UGH I would be pissed at myself for messing that up. Course, I can't fault him at all for it really, given the magnitude and obvious nervousness of what he was going through. Like you said, really shows a more human side to him =)

Also liked the "create not destroy" line, and I can appreciate the nod to non-believers as well. And of course I thought he delivered a good line when he talked of starting a renewed relationship with Muslims =)

I personally liked the poem, on a certain level it was thoughtful with good inferences. It started off a little vacant, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:41 PM 
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The oath flub was not his. Roberts was the one who misquoted it, apparently around where to put the word "faithfully". I believe Obama was mostly trying to give Roberts a chance to recover.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/01/ch ... -oath.html

A pretty good indicator why it's sheer fucking ridiculous stupidity to give anyone an office for life.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:49 PM 
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Quote:
A pretty good indicator why it's sheer fucking ridiculous stupidity to give anyone an office for life.
Ignore this. For some reason I thought it was one of the ancient justices who swore him in.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:58 PM 
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joxur wrote:
Quote:
A pretty good indicator why it's sheer fucking ridiculous stupidity to give anyone an office for life.
Ignore this. For some reason I thought it was one of the ancient justices who swore him in.


Well, life meant something else back in the day...most people didn't live long enough to get foggy. But I do like it being an office for life, primarily so there's no rush to impart legacy or any silly bullshit.

I know it's not apropos to the issue since there wasn't one, but I wouldn't mind them being tested annually for cognition, problem solving, etc. Just compare the scores to previous years and have a method of rapid removal when they see specific changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:01 PM 
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I know it's not apropos to the issue since there wasn't one, but I wouldn't mind them being tested annually for cognition, problem solving, etc. Just compare the scores to previous years and have a method of rapid removal when they see specific changes.
Just the fact you feel it's necessary to do that means they should not be in there for life. It's the highest court in the nation. It's more important than whether these people can still get behind the wheel of a Buick.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:05 PM 
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Well I suppose it's arguable if I think there should be a standard then it's not for life. ;) But I'd rather have some form of cognitive testing than a bullshit arbitrary age which doesn't address the problem any more than 'life' does. (See: Terry Pratchett and early onset Alzhimer's :( )

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:23 PM 
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I would argue that fresh ideas is much more important for people deciding law than for elected officials in congress or POTUS.

Quote:
Well I suppose it's arguable if I think there should be a standard then it's not for life. ;) But I'd rather have some form of cognitive testing than a bullshit arbitrary age which doesn't address the problem any more than 'life' does. (See: Terry Pratchett and early onset Alzhimer's :(
There are probably several dozen countries who would love to have an enforced term limit on all public officials.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:43 PM 
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Oh snap, I didn't realize Roberts misquoted it. I think there was another very minor slipup by Obama in the beginning also, nothing big at all though. Poor Roberts. It sounded natural, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:49 PM 
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Conspiracy theorists will have a field day with it, no doubt. heh


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:54 PM 
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when he subverts and goes terrorist then he can say that he never really took the real oath of office

he just got off the phone with bin laden

allahallahallahallahallahallahallahallahallah


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:20 PM 
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how can you take issue with SC justices having that position for life? that should be the one position in our system that is politically insulated, and setting term limits on it turns it into as much of a revolving door as the house and senate

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:29 PM 
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The very nature of how justices are put in place completely debunks your point.

The process now is politically insulated? That's a preposterous statement, right there.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 PM 
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I have to say I will always have concerns where there is that much power in the hands of that few people, over that long of a time. I'm not sure about what you do about it, if anything - I understand the desire to try and separate that sacred position by de-politicizing it in any way you can, eliminating the "legacy" issue etc.

But, still... I'm very fucking concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:55 PM 
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December 19, 1975. That's the date John Paul Stevens was put on the supreme court. He was born in 1920.

Another great argument for limits.

Hell, I go you one step further in regards to de-politicizing the process. It's well known that one of the most important things about electing a president is that you can influence the supreme court for a VERY long time, and thus great weight is put into how far that candidate leans, whether to the left or right. That's bad. Putting some sort of system in place that removes the "for life" feature would de-politicize it because each selection would have less weight. You wouldn't have pro-choicers saying "we're fucked" when a conservative is elected president nearly as much. Presidents could put people in place that are actual legal scholars instead of activists and have much less pressure from "the base" to put in place whackjobs.

Just my opinion. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:57 PM 
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The speech was bad. Another politician that's full of shit.

The same propaganda built to indoctrinate the American public with a false sense of achievement and security while paying homage to broad statements about a history that didn't actually happen. I understand that the speech can only be so long but the amount of broad statements which were completely lacking in potency is astounding.

I don't even know where to start to properly dissect the speech so I'll just go from start to finish.

Quote:
At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because We the People have remained faithful to the ideals of our forbearers, and true to our founding documents.


We haven't remained faithful to ideals - we have continually changed our social norms away from old ideas because that is how a capitalist society works. I can only laugh if people really believe we are following the vision of the founding fathers today.

Quote:
These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land - a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.


This is the type of crap which feeds uneducated people across the country to do stupid things. I thought this was an inauguration speech, not a CNN story.

Quote:
On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.


When did we choose unity of purpose over conflict and discord? Unity of purpose in the most diverse and widespread society in known history... right.

Quote:
We remain a young nation, but in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea, passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness.


This paragraph is so flawed in so many ways that I really can't even express my fury.

Quote:
Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted - for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame.


Except we are a fully capitalist society which emerged from previous systems to provide more leisure time so that everyone could have a chance at riches. Now, thanks to our poor planning and globalization, we are now working harder for less in most cases and constantly taking short-cuts.

Quote:
This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began.


You have to think other countries across the planet have to be chuckling at the idea that we are equally as productive now as we were a year or 5 years ago. Maybe there is some new figure which calculates productivity off unemployment and falling profits, at least this will give Microsoft something to cheer about.

Quote:
The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified.

Go go socialism?

Quote:
As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience sake. And so to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: Know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman, and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and that we are ready to lead once more.


At least we managed to marginalize the rest of the world.

Quote:
We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.


Seriously? I thought we were done with Bush.

Quote:
This is the source of our confidence--the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny.


......

What the fuck? This entire campaign was based off change. I can only hope that my generation won't be nearly this stupid when we get into positions of power.

If it is really time for change and innovation then we need to be moving forward not perpetuating the same religiously motivated and heavily sugar coated propaganda that laid the foundation for our political mess in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:34 PM 
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Wow, Bitter, party of one.

Was at inaug. I was near the Washington Monument wearing a hat, did you see me?


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:39 PM 
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Seriously? I thought we were done with Bush.


I'm not seeing anything specificly wrong with that paragraph. Bush uttered similar tones for sure, but it's a basic message to terrorists that we will not yield to the scum.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:42 PM 
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SC justices don't have to run for re-election, and they shouldn't. Appointments are another thing entirely, but if they're having to look over their shoulder at the voters every 2-6 years, they can't do their job, which is to make ensure that the constitution exists

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:43 PM 
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why can't the president be more punk rock and tell it like it is?!?!?!?!?!

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:46 PM 
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"be more metal" also works

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:47 PM 
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I'm actually going to reply because I'm taking a break from my fucking insano work hours AND I had to pop some vicodin. FEAR ME.

Quote:
We haven't remained faithful to ideals - we have continually changed our social norms away from old ideas because that is how a capitalist society works. I can only laugh if people really believe we are following the vision of the founding fathers today.


Ideals doesn't equal ideas. OF COURSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED. However some of the core IDEALS of this country have not. That is obviously what Obama is addressing. And we can all thank whatever the fuck we believe in that we are not following the vision of the founders today. I love most of the founders, but jesus h christ on a pogo stick...Jefferson would be viewed today as a dangerous whackjob with terroristic leanings. He truly believed, in a fundie kind of way (even though he wasn't a 'christian' in the sense that any christians think of it today, so I don't mean religious fundie. He was a deist) but I mean Believed with the capital B...in the bloody revolution.

He believed in order to not fall into tyranny that the US would probably have to undergo bloody revolution every...20 years or so. He spent too much time in France honestly and that time away from American politics fucked him up a bit and changed his perspectives. Then the US fucked over France (this is why they HATE us btw...they supported our revolution and we gave them the finger when they turned around and needed us. Yeah yeah WWII rah rah rah we helped but still that shit dies hard) and Jefferson was embittered by that.

Then he played a nasty game of politics. Read up what he did to Adams, a man pretty much everyone acknowledged at the time as the father of liberty. Jefferson got put on the pedastal in our history but Adams was where it was at. Then of course Jefferson stupidly fucked over his own muckracker and that's where the whole 'his slave is his mistress' rumors started. (Yes, I know about the DNA, however there's decent evidence to also support instead of Thomas it was another male relative, so it's a case of 'who knows...but it WAS a Jefferson!')

Don't get me wrong. I love Jefferson. I love Franklin (pretty much a requirement when you're born in Philly) and they were remarkable men of their time...but all of them would shit goddamn bricks over the country today.

We are not what they envisioned in most ways. But the IDEALS? Yes. Oh yes.

We had men conflicted with themselves. Men who held to an ideal that we could be a country where birth didn't matter, and anyone through hard work could rise up...and yet almost all were born men of wealth, scions of their family. They were men who valued freedom, while some owned slaves (though some were against it, like Adams. And others deeply conflicted and believed they were doing great wrong...like Washington who in ancient tradition freed his slaves upon the death of himself and the rest upon the death of his wife in his will as many Romans did).

Our ideas have always been at battle with our ideals. I would say one of the most amazing thing through all our struggles has been how well we have maintained these ideals through some bitter battles. We have believed in the ideals of equality, even though it was a long bitter road to its practice. A road I say we are still traversing today.

A road we are only further down because of the people of this nation. I can vote today because of those who came before me. I am not the property of my husband, because of those who came before me. I have a right to make a choice concerning my body...because of those who came before me. I have a right to not only have freedom of religion but freedom FROM religion, because of those who came before me.

As a woman, as a freethinker, as an atheist, as a really mouthy chick...as MANY things I have been which would have me imprisoned, tortured, killed in many parts of the world, these are not freedoms I take for granted.

Can we still do more? I believe so, and equality of marriage is a personal fight for me. I believe in the people of this nation and in our ability to achieve our ideals, even when those ideals that all people are created equal might not be popular at the moment with the masses. I believe because I have seen what the people of this nation do over time. I believe in the evidence of history.

:)

Quote:
This is the type of crap which feeds uneducated people across the country to do stupid things. I thought this was an inauguration speech, not a CNN story.


My grandfather has refered to this country as 'The Great Experiment'. He was born in 1918. He worked on the railroad. He'll be 91 this year, and I knew his father a man who lived to be 103. My grandfather probably worked with men who had been slaves, since many blacks worked for the railroad. He lived through the Great Depression. He served in WWII.

I was in Philadelphia in 1976, and I remember it even though I was an extremely young child. And we were celebrating only 200 years.

Not long ago I saw a news story about how Russian experts were predicted the breakup of the United States by ...what was it 2012?

I know they're wrong. Even as I am personally effected by the woes of the economy. I am afraid of where we will end up, as there is a possibility we could entirely lose our pension. I had to scramble for work in December, and am unbelievably grateful I found a job (or I could have lost my home) in days...when I am seeing good friends, capable people, educated people, smart people...hard working, not lazy, not too proud to clean a toilet people...out of work for months, sometimes more than a year.

Of course these things must be addressed.

And if they haven't impacted you...I am glad for you. I know people who are so insulated that they see these troubles as some distant thing, perhaps blown up by the media.

I wish I could too. But I have food hitting the table. I won't be homeless. But it is a terrible thing to see your husband cry on your shoulder and beg your forgiveness for serving the public as a police officer because he's taking a ten percent pay cut, and it's only the beginning. To weep that he should have fucked it off and taken a private sector job, even one he hated so we wouldn't have money worries (even though with these tough times he could've lost that job). To apologize that his wife had to scramble for a job in Dec. due to the economy rather than having the luxury of looking around, or maybe even not having to work!

To apologize that if things got really bad, maybe he wouldn't have a pension. A possibility so scary, he's only admitted it to me, as he assures others it probably won't come to pass. If California declares bankruptcy...which isn't outside the realm of possibility now...it happens.

We'll be okay. I believe that as surely as I can stand, because as long as I can stand, I'll scrub fucking toilets if I have to.

But you'd better believe I want my goddamn President addressing these issues.

Because it's not just a story on CNN. It's in my home. And it's not even that bad here. I feel like shit even MENTIONING anything, as I saw friends scramble to give their kids a Christmas. And people laying on the blankets because they can't afford the heat this winter.

Quote:
When did we choose unity of purpose over conflict and discord? Unity of purpose in the most diverse and widespread society in known history... right.


Because that was Obama's campaign. That this was not an issue of partisan politics, that we had to lay all that shit aside and come together and address these serious fucking problems.

This is not a message that could have won, were not things in such a clusterfuck.

I like Obama. I'm cynical enough to be leery that he inspires such hope in me. I am not drinking the Kool-Aid of those who mindlessly WOOHOO the man.

But his message would not, could not have been powerful were it not something the American people desperately wanted (change, something different, a unification towards a greater purpose. A CHANCE TO BE FUCKING PROUD AGAIN INSTEAD OF EMBARASSED AT OUR PRESIDENT).

That's what he's addressing. I don't care if you're not down with that, but I'm surprised if you don't get what he's driving at, since you'd have to be under a rock the last 2 years hehe.

Quote:
This paragraph is so flawed in so many ways that I really can't even express my fury.


Clearly as an atheist, not my favorite either...though I do like some of the bible. Clearly it's an appeal to emotionalism, which I'm ALSO not a fan of, but it's a powerful tool in speeches. He's clearly going for feeling here rather than substance.

Again, not a fan, but doesn't drive me to 'fury'. I mean c'mon. Really? If it honestly does, then your problem isn't with what's being said, but who's saying it.

Because Bush could drive me to fury with some of his dumbass shit and it wasn't that the dumbass shit was SO bad it should make anyone that angry...it was also 'cause it was Bush. /shrug

or maybe you just chose your words badly in ranting, in which case...it's an emotional appeal not unlike Obama's eh? :D

Quote:
Except we are a fully capitalist society which emerged from previous systems to provide more leisure time so that everyone could have a chance at riches. Now, thanks to our poor planning and globalization, we are now working harder for less in most cases and constantly taking short-cuts.


Ehhh we're not fully capitalist, but damn near. I'm not trying to be a dick and nitpick, but if we were fully capitalist we wouldn't allow...unions. Or a lot of regulations.

And shit after the bailouts we're REALLY not capitalist. =\

But your issues with it are pretty similar to what Obama's stated issues have been. It seems like you want to take what he's saying in one context (about the american work ethic and worker) and apply it to ANOTHER issue (wall street bullshit). He's pretty much praising one and damning the other there.

Quote:
You have to think other countries across the planet have to be chuckling at the idea that we are equally as productive now as we were a year or 5 years ago. Maybe there is some new figure which calculates productivity off unemployment and falling profits, at least this will give Microsoft something to cheer about.


Name another nation that's more powerful AND prosperous. You can't. What he said is factually true.

Again you seem to be taking what he says in one context and want to apply it specifically (TODAY V. 5 years ago in employement). No fucking duh it's higher unemployement today. But even with things being BAD, it's important to remember where we stand as a whole, and it's hardly whistling in the dark.

It's also important to remind everyone else too. People don't want to invest in something going downhill do they? Or would you rather a speech that focused only on the negative, acknowledging all the ways things have been completely fucked over during the Bush years, with no mention of the good, or any solutions? I'm sure you don't, but when you bash every thing with 'well THIS STILL SUCKS' it's kinda like...well what the fuck do you want?

Quote:
Go go socialism?


You're not a fan of capitalism, as you bitched about that. Soooo socialism is out too? Where are you at? Hopefully not communism! ;) And if you're going to go into a 'it's not that black and white there's this and that within various systems' I'm going to anticipate that with a 'no fucking duh and don't you think that's where he's at too?'

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At least we managed to marginalize the rest of the world.


Right because addressing how people gave up freedom for a false sense of security totally is all about that. And we'd better be addressing the rest of the world on these issues considering all the shit we've done.

I'm sure a lot of nations who rushed to our aid post 9/11 are REAL FUCKING HAPPY WITH US AFTER BUSH.

Talk to anyone in England, I've talked to quite a few. It's a horrible fucking thing to feel embarassed about what your country has done, and mortified by your president.

Got more than one email from the UK today congratulating us on Obama, and wishing us well. They're not on the Hope Changery Express, but they know he cannot be worse than Bush and they sincerely hope he sorts out a lot of the problems.

Because our problems don't remain just our problems. We're a global society. And that's hardly marginalizing the rest of the world. No doing that would be bullshitting them and dragging them into a war built on lies.

Oh yeah...

Quote:
Seriously? I thought we were done with Bush.


We are, though the clusterfuck that was his administration will take awhile to sort out. No, you see there's this guy named Osama bin Ladin, perhaps you remember him? Yeah. He's still around.

There's a lot of work Bush managed not to do while blowing the fuck out of a lot of people.

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What the fuck? This entire campaign was based off change. I can only hope that my generation won't be nearly this stupid when we get into positions of power.


I dislike any references to divine authority since I believe in none and it tends to scare the hell out of me when people believe that some invisible entity is calling upon them to do...anything. I don't think Obama believes that in the same way that Bush literally believed that Jesus handpicked HIM...but I don't like it. Probably not for entirely the same reasons as you, but I'm of the 'okay feel free to bash that shit all you want'.

Many people like hearing it and at least it's pretty non-denominational unlike some shit in the past. Still, even though I'd rather not have it at all, I'm more comfortable with it in the vague sense of 'creator'-ish shit.

But though it's useless to me, most people are believers and it's important to them, so that's why it's included. Hopefully that will change someday.

Quote:
If it is really time for change and innovation then we need to be moving forward not perpetuating the same religiously motivated and heavily sugar coated propaganda that laid the foundation for our political mess in the first place.


Oops forgot this with the above. Again can't criticize you here except to say it's hardly in the same league as Bush. I think the Obamas are clearly people of faith. Their faith is important to them. They believe in God, and are followers of Christianity. I'm fine with all that. I don't think Obama is suggesting or has ever suggested that Jesus talks to him directly or handpicked him for this shit or anything else that Bush vomited.

Again, dislike it. Unnecessary. But if it's going to be there, and sadly it often is, I prefer this type of vague nod to the majority who believe in SOMETHING, than the fundie shit.

I would be MUCH happier if it was personalized as individual belief though rather than the open statements of fact that they treat it as. I'm fine with someone personally saying it's their personal belief, versus the way some state it as universal fact.

Anyhoo ...I apologize if I come off like busting your balls. Not my intention. :D

And to anyone who watched Obamapooloza on HBO...did anyone like it? I mean...really? I couldn't even watch it all in one sitting. Speech, song, speech, song. And it all came off, I don't know, very artificial instead of inspired or celebration.

Except a few performers. The choir was fucking awesome. And that chick who sang with Jon Bon Jovi whos name I can't recall offhand even though I know her, she fucking ROCKED.

The rest, not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:02 PM 
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You got trolled Tarot! This is Bupas we're talking about!


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:40 PM 
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Specifically responding to Tarot

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Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land - a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.


I am completely aware of the issue here, my gripe is by continually emphasizing how down the economy is you fuel the fire. A similar section of the speech was necessary but without using "decline is inevitable" or talking about generations to come. It was just poor execution.

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Because that was Obama's campaign. That this was not an issue of partisan politics, that we had to lay all that shit aside and come together and address these serious fucking problems.


This is why Obama won't be nearly as effective as a president as he could be. There is a point where you just have to accept that a large portion of the country is going to hate you in a time of crisis. Pretending otherwise makes you come off like you are just blowing smoke. I am a strong believer that you pick a good plan and go with it answering whatever questions arise along the way. Half of politics is not coming off like a jerk to the other side so that compromise can be reached. His plan simply cannot be called unity of purpose, its a twist of words that makes him come off like a sleazy politician in my eyes.

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Again, not a fan, but doesn't drive me to 'fury'. I mean c'mon. Really? If it honestly does, then your problem isn't with what's being said, but who's saying it.


The idea that I am going to have to raise children in a world where some fairytale bullshit is dictating major decisions makes me rage. Hearing it come from a president far from the religious conservatives? Worse.

Quote:
Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted - for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame.

Quote:
But your issues with it are pretty similar to what Obama's stated issues have been. It seems like you want to take what he's saying in one context (about the american work ethic and worker) and apply it to ANOTHER issue (wall street bullshit). He's pretty much praising one and damning the other there.

Perhaps you are switching the meanings of my words. I am merely pointing out the idiocy of talking about the great work ethic of a society built on a system meant to maximize laziness.

Quote:
Name another nation that's more powerful AND prosperous. You can't.

Notice I made no mention of power at all?

You are not understanding what I am getting at here, but this is probably just because you don't know me well.

I am pointing out that making excuses for our shortcomings only hurt the public because it causes people to ignore reality. American products are shit in many different fields and with a shrinking global market the future of these products is dismal.

Quote:
You're not a fan of capitalism, as you bitched about that. Soooo socialism is out too? Where are you at? Hopefully not communism! ;) And if you're going to go into a 'it's not that black and white there's this and that within various systems' I'm going to anticipate that with a 'no fucking duh and don't you think that's where he's at too?'


I am a fan of capitalism. At no point do I bitch about capitalism as a system. You seem to be confusing an economic system with a political one. For example, the world economy is largely capitalist even if all the countries involved are not. It is unfortunate that we let capitalism control our government as it was not even in existence when the country was created.

and lastly, I hope "at least he is better than bush" won't be the best thing we can say about this presidency.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:02 PM 
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I didn't have the text to post before:
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We know that, Lord, You are able and You're willing to work through faithful leadership, to restore stability, mend our brokenness, heal our wounds, and deliver us from the exploitation of the poor, the least of these and from favoritism toward the rich, the elite of these.
Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their neighbors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask You to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around; when yellow will be mellow; when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white would embrace what is right. Let all those who do justice and love mercy, say amen. Say amen.


Every time I hear or see this I get more and more upset.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:26 PM 
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Are you upset about the "white" part, or what?

I thought the rich/poor portion was right on target. Jesus himself said something to the effect of that God himself was inside each poor downtrodden person.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:28 PM 
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That was my one real gripe too. Is everyone a victim except for white people? How about where the black won't hold himself back? Or the brown won't act the clown? Or the yellow befriends his fellow? Or the red stops drinking in bed? Or the why the fuck are we rhyming we're not goddamn Johnny Cochran?


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:06 PM 
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Tarot, thanks for taking the time to reply to Bupas. I really liked what you had to say, and you said it all probably much better than I could have. (I wasn't going to waste the time anyway though, heh).

kryby, don't let it get you too excited. It's really not that big of a deal. I'm still not positive what your problem is in the first place, but if it's about the "white" comment, try to remember the man who gave that benediction grew up and participated in a world that perhaps you (and definitely me) never really experienced. His vantage point is from a childhood and young adult life where the reality was that white people in general were people to be feared.

My grandfather is (was-- he died recently) exactly the opposite, but I was never offended by him, either. My grandfather was openly racist, and often said pretty horrible shit at the dinner table when we went to visit. Hell, it was much MUCH worse than whatever imagined slight you are pulling out of that benediction. But my grandfather grew up in a world in Alabama 1920s where his attitudes were the accepted norm of everyone around him. At his advanced age, he simply couldn't see the world differently. It was who he was-- it sucked, but we didn't get all worked up about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:13 PM 
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Syuni D'zpecyzczn wrote:
That was my one real gripe too. Is everyone a victim except for white people? How about where the black won't hold himself back? Or the brown won't act the clown? Or the yellow befriends his fellow? Or the red stops drinking in bed? Or the why the fuck are we rhyming we're not goddamn Johnny Cochran?


Sadly he was better than the poet.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:34 PM 
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yeah but that doesn't mean it was good

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:37 PM 
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yeah but that doesn't mean it was good


I felt embarassed for both of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:41 AM 
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Damn, people. Learn your musical history.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:17 AM 
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So was anyone in D.C. for this? Any pictures to share?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:55 AM 
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Kidding...just trying to Bupasroll Tarot. :p


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:07 AM 
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Saw this image on Drudge. WTF.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:09 AM 
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Inevitable with that many people.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:10 AM 
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bearne wrote:
Damn, people. Learn your musical history.



I don't think that makes what he said OK. I know our country has some way to go, still, when it comes to equality on several levels, but to say you're looking for a day when "white will do what's right" is pretty damn insulting to the millions of people who voted for Obama - who obviously didn't want to tell him to "get in back."

For a localized article about Obama's inauguration, I interviewed a 58-year-old black preacher from a small, rural county near where I live. And he acknowledged that, for the black community, this was HUGE. And he said he didn't know if everyone in the white community understood how big, but then he said something that surprised me.

"I tell you, for me, personally, it makes me feel now that I’m a full, 100 percent American. I feel like we’ve got equal rights. I really feel that, right now, America is at its strongest point as far as its people having an opportunity to unite. You almost have to be black to really realize what’s going on, you know, what we feel, and I hope it’s not offensive to the white community that we are so proud of our country. And we know and I know that Obama wasn’t elected by black people because of the percentage of black people in the country; he’d have to have support from all groups. So, again, this shows the state of America now that we can do this.”

Lowery seemed to ignore my source's last point: for Obama to be elected, he had to have support from all races. For Lowery to belittle this fact was insulting.

(And if you get a chance to watch it again, watch Obama's face when he's saying that. He kind of smiles at the first part, and when Lowery says that last line, Obama's smile fades a bit. You can tell he's thinking 'Oh, hell. What fallout is going to happen from that bit?')

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:15 AM 
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SurcamStances wrote:
Inevitable with that many people.

You guys haven't invented garbage cans yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:15 AM 
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The problem with the poem and the nursery rhyme is that they weren't up to the moment. If that dude wanted to say that at a ball, or a secondary event, fine. But on the day we celebrated the first black president, it really failed to rise to the occasion.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:37 PM 
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I just happened to get in my truck following a meeting and heard the last part of this clowns benediction. I have to agree with Austi, it pretty much pissed me off.

At this point I believe that if we put every black person of college age in college with free tuition, we would still be endlessly bitched at because we didnt give them all free meal passes. Doesn't matter what it is it is never enough in the black communities eyes.

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:39 PM 
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Yeah, we black people just can't be satisfied. WTF is wrong with us?!?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:47 PM 
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I thought the inaugural address was pretty average. There was nothing overtly offensive or inspiring in it. I did like the comment on the open hands and unclecnched fists, the best part of the speech. Obama himself raised expectations for the speech when commenting on Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address a few days earlier, and it didn't even come close to comparing.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:50 PM 
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Look there I am!

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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:53 PM 
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I enjoyed every moment of the inauguration, and the events leading up to it -- excepting the musical performances. It's a time to be happy and get behind the man, even if you didn't vote for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:56 PM 
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Quote:
I just happened to get in my truck following a meeting and heard the last part of this clowns benediction. I have to agree with Austi, it pretty much pissed me off.

At this point I believe that if we put every black person of college age in college with free tuition, we would still be endlessly bitched at because we didnt give them all free meal passes. Doesn't matter what it is it is never enough in the black communities eyes.


I hate to say it, but it's largely true. 1000 years from now we'll still be made to feel as though we personally wronged anyone who isn't white.

Gets old after a while. Actually, the benediction would have been cool without the white part. It's nice and all to talk about how everyone should be equal, but to once again basically just say, "We WOULD be, if not for whitey." is just getting old and tired.

Sometimes I feel like saying, "If it's so fucking bad here with us DEVIL WHITEYS, take your ass over to Africa and get chopped up with a machete or something. At least then it'll be a fellow brotha' doing it." but that's just inflammatory, now isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:03 PM 
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Wow....here we go again.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:04 PM 
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Go back to Africa blackies!

Am I right or or am I right fellas...


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:06 PM 
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I think you mean niggers


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:12 PM 
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't even bother addressing the point, the bust out the Hyperbole Cannon. (I hear it runs on chicken bones and watermelon seeds.)

There. NOW you have something to bitch about.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:12 PM 
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Er, "just" bust out the Hyperbole Cannon.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:17 PM 
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As one of the millions of white people that helped him get elected, I don't feel insulted in the slightest. His entire speech spoke of "unity", "solidarity", "inclusion", "fellowship", "oneness of family", "work together", and "love". We are to be expected that his one reference to a historical works is to break with that context? The only thing surprising to me is that there may have been an equal number of people who didn't understand his speech as there were who didn't understand the poem. Well within the context of what he was saying, he was pointing out with that reference that we had come so far since the day in which that song was written. Right after the election of our first black President, by completely ignoring the color of someone's skin and voting for what we thought was the best person for the job, white has indeed done what is right.

As a person who marched with Rev. King, he more than anyone knows how far we have come, and he makes it more than clear in his speech.

The irony is that those who are still very sensitive about race have called themselves out.


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 Post subject: Re: Inaugural speech
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:20 PM 
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Bovinity Divinity wrote:
Sometimes I feel like saying, "If it's so fucking bad here with us DEVIL WHITEYS, take your ass over to Africa and get chopped up with a machete or something. At least then it'll be a fellow brotha' doing it."

Hyperbole cannon indeed!


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