I'm actually going to reply because I'm taking a break from my fucking insano work hours AND I had to pop some vicodin. FEAR ME.
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We haven't remained faithful to ideals - we have continually changed our social norms away from old ideas because that is how a capitalist society works. I can only laugh if people really believe we are following the vision of the founding fathers today.
Ideals doesn't equal ideas. OF COURSE THINGS HAVE CHANGED. However some of the core IDEALS of this country have not. That is obviously what Obama is addressing. And we can all thank whatever the fuck we believe in that we are not following the vision of the founders today. I love most of the founders, but jesus h christ on a pogo stick...Jefferson would be viewed today as a dangerous whackjob with terroristic leanings. He truly believed, in a fundie kind of way (even though he wasn't a 'christian' in the sense that any christians think of it today, so I don't mean religious fundie. He was a deist) but I mean Believed with the capital B...in the bloody revolution.
He believed in order to not fall into tyranny that the US would probably have to undergo bloody revolution every...20 years or so. He spent too much time in France honestly and that time away from American politics fucked him up a bit and changed his perspectives. Then the US fucked over France (this is why they HATE us btw...they supported our revolution and we gave them the finger when they turned around and needed us. Yeah yeah WWII rah rah rah we helped but still that shit dies hard) and Jefferson was embittered by that.
Then he played a nasty game of politics. Read up what he did to Adams, a man pretty much everyone acknowledged at the time as the father of liberty. Jefferson got put on the pedastal in our history but Adams was where it was at. Then of course Jefferson stupidly fucked over his own muckracker and that's where the whole 'his slave is his mistress' rumors started. (Yes, I know about the DNA, however there's decent evidence to also support instead of Thomas it was another male relative, so it's a case of 'who knows...but it WAS a Jefferson!')
Don't get me wrong. I love Jefferson. I love Franklin (pretty much a requirement when you're born in Philly) and they were remarkable men of their time...but all of them would shit goddamn bricks over the country today.
We are not what they envisioned in most ways. But the IDEALS? Yes.
Oh yes. We had men conflicted with themselves. Men who held to an ideal that we could be a country where birth didn't matter, and anyone through hard work could rise up...and yet almost all were born men of wealth, scions of their family. They were men who valued freedom, while some owned slaves (though some were against it, like Adams. And others deeply conflicted and believed they were doing great wrong...like Washington who in ancient tradition freed his slaves upon the death of himself and the rest upon the death of his wife in his will as many Romans did).
Our ideas have always been at battle with our ideals. I would say one of the most amazing thing through all our struggles has been how well we have maintained these ideals through some bitter battles. We have believed in the ideals of equality, even though it was a long bitter road to its practice. A road I say we are still traversing today.
A road we are only further down because of the people of this nation. I can vote today because of those who came before me. I am not the property of my husband, because of those who came before me. I have a right to make a choice concerning my body...because of those who came before me. I have a right to not only have freedom of religion but freedom FROM religion, because of those who came before me.
As a woman, as a freethinker, as an atheist, as a really mouthy chick...as MANY things I have been which would have me imprisoned, tortured, killed in many parts of the world, these are not freedoms I take for granted.
Can we still do more? I believe so, and equality of marriage is a personal fight for me. I believe in the people of this nation and in our ability to achieve our ideals, even when those ideals that all people are created equal might not be popular at the moment with the masses. I believe because I have seen what the people of this nation do over time. I believe in the evidence of history.
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This is the type of crap which feeds uneducated people across the country to do stupid things. I thought this was an inauguration speech, not a CNN story.
My grandfather has refered to this country as 'The Great Experiment'. He was born in 1918. He worked on the railroad. He'll be 91 this year, and I knew his father a man who lived to be 103. My grandfather probably worked with men who had been slaves, since many blacks worked for the railroad. He lived through the Great Depression. He served in WWII.
I was in Philadelphia in 1976, and I remember it even though I was an extremely young child. And we were celebrating only 200 years.
Not long ago I saw a news story about how Russian experts were predicted the breakup of the United States by ...what was it 2012?
I know they're wrong. Even as I am
personally effected by the woes of the economy. I am afraid of where we will end up, as there is a possibility we could entirely lose our pension. I had to scramble for work in December, and am unbelievably grateful I found a job (
or I could have lost my home) in days...when I am seeing good friends, capable people, educated people, smart people...hard working, not lazy, not too proud to clean a toilet people...out of work for months, sometimes more than a year.
Of course these things must be addressed.
And if they haven't impacted you...I am glad for you. I know people who are so insulated that they see these troubles as some distant thing, perhaps blown up by the media.
I wish I could too. But I have food hitting the table. I won't be homeless. But it is a terrible thing to see your husband cry on your shoulder and beg your forgiveness for serving the public as a police officer because he's taking a ten percent pay cut, and it's only the beginning. To weep that he should have fucked it off and taken a private sector job, even one he hated so we wouldn't have money worries (even though with these tough times he could've lost that job). To apologize that his wife had to scramble for a job in Dec. due to the economy rather than having the luxury of looking around, or maybe even not having to work!
To apologize that if things got really bad, maybe he wouldn't have a pension. A possibility so scary, he's only admitted it to me, as he assures others it probably won't come to pass. If California declares bankruptcy...which isn't outside the realm of possibility now...it happens.
We'll be okay. I believe that as surely as I can stand, because as long as I can stand, I'll scrub fucking toilets if I have to.
But you'd better believe I want my goddamn President addressing these issues. Because it's not just a story on CNN. It's in my home. And it's not even that bad here. I feel like shit even MENTIONING anything, as I saw friends scramble to give their kids a Christmas. And people laying on the blankets because they can't afford the heat this winter.
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When did we choose unity of purpose over conflict and discord? Unity of purpose in the most diverse and widespread society in known history... right.
Because that was Obama's campaign. That this was not an issue of partisan politics, that we had to lay all that shit aside and come together and address these serious fucking problems.
This is not a message that could have won, were not things in such a clusterfuck.
I like Obama. I'm cynical enough to be leery that he inspires such hope in me. I am not drinking the Kool-Aid of those who mindlessly WOOHOO the man.
But his message would not, could not have been powerful were it not something the American people desperately wanted (change, something different, a unification towards a greater purpose. A CHANCE TO BE FUCKING PROUD AGAIN INSTEAD OF EMBARASSED AT OUR PRESIDENT).
That's what he's addressing. I don't care if you're not down with that, but I'm surprised if you don't get what he's driving at, since you'd have to be under a rock the last 2 years hehe.
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This paragraph is so flawed in so many ways that I really can't even express my fury.
Clearly as an atheist, not my favorite either...though I do like some of the bible. Clearly it's an appeal to emotionalism, which I'm ALSO not a fan of, but it's a powerful tool in speeches. He's clearly going for feeling here rather than substance.
Again, not a fan, but doesn't drive me to 'fury'. I mean c'mon. Really? If it honestly does, then your problem isn't with what's being said, but who's saying it.
Because Bush could drive me to fury with some of his dumbass shit and it wasn't that the dumbass shit was SO bad it should make anyone that angry...it was also 'cause it was Bush. /shrug
or maybe you just chose your words badly in ranting, in which case...it's an emotional appeal not unlike Obama's eh?
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Except we are a fully capitalist society which emerged from previous systems to provide more leisure time so that everyone could have a chance at riches. Now, thanks to our poor planning and globalization, we are now working harder for less in most cases and constantly taking short-cuts.
Ehhh we're not fully capitalist, but damn near. I'm not trying to be a dick and nitpick, but if we were fully capitalist we wouldn't allow...unions. Or a lot of regulations.
And shit after the bailouts we're REALLY not capitalist. =\
But your issues with it are pretty similar to what Obama's stated issues have been. It seems like you want to take what he's saying in one context (about the american work ethic and worker) and apply it to ANOTHER issue (wall street bullshit). He's pretty much praising one and damning the other there.
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You have to think other countries across the planet have to be chuckling at the idea that we are equally as productive now as we were a year or 5 years ago. Maybe there is some new figure which calculates productivity off unemployment and falling profits, at least this will give Microsoft something to cheer about.
Name another nation that's more powerful AND prosperous. You can't. What he said is factually true.
Again you seem to be taking what he says in one context and want to apply it specifically (TODAY V. 5 years ago in employement). No fucking duh it's higher unemployement today. But even with things being BAD, it's important to remember where we stand as a whole, and it's hardly whistling in the dark.
It's also important to remind everyone else too. People don't want to invest in something going downhill do they? Or would you rather a speech that focused only on the negative, acknowledging all the ways things have been completely fucked over during the Bush years, with no mention of the good, or any solutions? I'm sure you don't, but when you bash every thing with 'well THIS STILL SUCKS' it's kinda like...well what the fuck do you want?
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Go go socialism?
You're not a fan of capitalism, as you bitched about that. Soooo socialism is out too? Where are you at? Hopefully not communism!
And if you're going to go into a 'it's not that black and white there's this and that within various systems' I'm going to anticipate that with a 'no fucking duh and don't you think that's where he's at too?'
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At least we managed to marginalize the rest of the world.
Right because addressing how people gave up freedom for a false sense of security totally is all about that. And we'd better be addressing the rest of the world on these issues considering all the shit we've done.
I'm sure a lot of nations who rushed to our aid post 9/11 are REAL FUCKING HAPPY WITH US AFTER BUSH.
Talk to anyone in England, I've talked to quite a few. It's a horrible fucking thing to feel embarassed about what your country has done, and mortified by your president.
Got more than one email from the UK today congratulating us on Obama, and wishing us well. They're not on the Hope Changery Express, but they know he cannot be worse than Bush and they sincerely hope he sorts out a lot of the problems.
Because our problems don't remain just our problems. We're a global society. And that's hardly marginalizing the rest of the world. No doing that would be bullshitting them and dragging them into a war built on lies.
Oh yeah...
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Seriously? I thought we were done with Bush.
We are, though the clusterfuck that was his administration will take awhile to sort out. No, you see there's this guy named Osama bin Ladin, perhaps you remember him? Yeah. He's still around.
There's a lot of work Bush managed not to do while blowing the fuck out of a lot of people.
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What the fuck? This entire campaign was based off change. I can only hope that my generation won't be nearly this stupid when we get into positions of power.
I dislike any references to divine authority since I believe in none and it tends to scare the hell out of me when people believe that some invisible entity is calling upon them to do...anything. I don't think Obama believes that in the same way that Bush literally believed that Jesus handpicked HIM...but I don't like it. Probably not for entirely the same reasons as you, but I'm of the 'okay feel free to bash that shit all you want'.
Many people like hearing it and at least it's pretty non-denominational unlike some shit in the past. Still, even though I'd rather not have it at all, I'm more comfortable with it in the vague sense of 'creator'-ish shit.
But though it's useless to me, most people are believers and it's important to them, so that's why it's included. Hopefully that will change someday.
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If it is really time for change and innovation then we need to be moving forward not perpetuating the same religiously motivated and heavily sugar coated propaganda that laid the foundation for our political mess in the first place.
Oops forgot this with the above. Again can't criticize you here except to say it's hardly in the same league as Bush. I think the Obamas are clearly people of faith. Their faith is important to them. They believe in God, and are followers of Christianity. I'm fine with all that. I don't think Obama is suggesting or has ever suggested that Jesus talks to him directly or handpicked him for this shit or anything else that Bush vomited.
Again, dislike it. Unnecessary. But if it's going to be there, and sadly it often is, I prefer this type of vague nod to the majority who believe in SOMETHING, than the fundie shit.
I would be MUCH happier if it was personalized as individual belief though rather than the open statements of fact that they treat it as. I'm fine with someone personally saying it's their personal belief, versus the way some state it as universal fact.
Anyhoo ...I apologize if I come off like busting your balls. Not my intention.
And to anyone who watched Obamapooloza on HBO...did anyone like it? I mean...really? I couldn't even watch it all in one sitting. Speech, song, speech, song. And it all came off, I don't know, very artificial instead of inspired or celebration.
Except a few performers. The choir was fucking awesome. And that chick who sang with Jon Bon Jovi whos name I can't recall offhand even though I know her, she fucking ROCKED.
The rest, not so much.