I remember it being a big deal in the election and I didn't know why then either. I'm completely ignorant about the area/politics/events over there, but I am curious as to why Israel is put on such a pedestal - somebody here must know?

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Because they control a vast amount of money in the US? Control Hollywood?

Seriously though, I don't know either, just tossing out some possible reasoning.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

They are one of our trusted allies in the Middle East. They have one of the most powerful armed forces and won't hesitate to use it. We have to do a lot for Israel so they don't turn the rest of the Middle East into one giant glass factory.

Israel is the only unifying force in the Middle East. The only thing stronger than the hatred for the other middle eastern tribes is their unified hatred for Israel. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, <insert every other middle eastern country here>, all desire to see Israel no longer exist. In one way or another they have been fighting since the dawn of time and will be fighting until either one side completely destroys the other or the world itself comes to an end.

Our being allies to Israel and trying to be friends with the other Mid-Eastern countries has gotten us into lots of trouble (not just with the most recent administration).

It's a mixture of things, and I'm sure someone will disagree with me or add to the list.

One major issue is money, obviously. There might be fewer Jewish Americans than other some other religions, but there are some *very* influential Jewish Americans.

Additionally, there's traditionally been a dislike of Arab nations, reaching back to the Crusades. Their culture is different, and they're considered pretty war-like. (I'll be honest, for the most part, I hold that view. But I'm a bit biased.)

There's also a bit of guilt remaining, I believe, over how the U.S. reacted initially to the Holocaust in WWII. Few refugees were allowed into the country, and we tried to ignore it for as long as we could. This reason is fading fast, however, as people who lived during WWII and remember the Holocaust are dying or leaving public office, etc.

Another reason, and this is a big one, is that Israel has been a *good* ally. Ranging back to the Cold War, it's stolen technology and information, only to turn it over to the U.S. Or, when Israel has invented something, they again "gift" it to us. In return, we have "gifted" them with money and our support.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but those are the ones I can think of at the moment.

And sympathy for Israel is low now, because even though they're the underdog, and even though Hamas attacked Israel first, Israel has the upper hand. It has the better technology. And it can wreck more damage.
When Israel retaliates, more people are injured. It's unfortunate. And I *hate* that civilians are caught in the crossfire. I wish there were other ways to go about it. But other than sending back the same type of rockets randomly into Gaza, what options do they have? Hamas has said repeatedly that they won't deal with Israel...and even when they do, they refuse to take that little bit out of their charter. You know, the part about getting rid of all the Jews?

I suppose many in the world think Israel should just sit back and LET Hamas send rockets into Israel. After all, the best way to combat such a deed is to ignore it, right? Or maybe relinquish the lands Hamas is bombing, so Hamas can move into it. Israel can keep letting land go until there's none left...just so they don't look like a bad guy. Right?

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It's also worth pointing out that their armed forces are there because we give them billions in cash to make it.



I can't name a single person, whatever their political affiliation, that thinks Israel should do nothing and "LET Hamas send rockets into Israel." We don't need your strawmen.

They could make wider use of quality PGMs and not attack near hospitals and schools even if they think that Hamas is launching rockets from those locations for one. That would cut down on the collateral damage quite a bit.

Just because a rocket is launched from a street outside a hospital, doesn't mean that you have to attack that same spot. By the time your retaliatory hit lands, no one is there but civilians. Instead, attack known Hamas strongholds and caches directly. If those happen to be in hospitals or schools, then you go in on foot and get ok with the fact that you're going to lose a lot of people in urban fighting. Doing otherwise only galvanizes the enemy and encourages those people caught in the middle to join them.

I've always wondered this same question and never found an answer that satisfied me. The conclusions I've come to are:

Guilt. Unfortunately for Israel the generation that felt this is moving out of power around the world.

Power. American Jews and those with dual citizenship are a very powerful lobby here in the states.

Religion. Not me but most Americans feel that American values are Judeo-christian values.

Terrorism. The Palestinians were a largely ignored humanitarian disaster until they started engaging in terrorism. To this day their point of view is ignored by western media until they engage in terrorism and even then they concentrate on Israel's reaction to that terrorism rather than the conditions Israel forces them to live under that prompts their terrorist acts. And before I get jumped, I am not in any way condoning terrorism, just stating how I see it.

It is a mess over there but not, in my opinion, an insurmountable one. Unfortunately, we in the west are no longer seen as a nonbiased party as well as no longer acting as a nonbiased party. We look at solutions from only the Israeli perspective and consider security to be only an Israeli problem rather than a problem for both sides. Both sides have legitimate grievances and both sides have legitimate claims to being the injured party. What both sides also have that makes resolution very very difficult is a vested interest in continuing the conflict. Israel because it allows them to get monies from "allies" and justifies the building of their defensive capablities while also putting off the time when the world community steps in and forces them to stop building settlements outside the UN boundaries. Palestinians because it garners them the attention from the world that they get in no other way.

Fribur,
You might not have heard anyone say such a thing, but I have. I've seen the argument that Israel should just do nothing until a treaty was worked out. I *wish* it worked that way, but it doesn't.

Devyn,
Good points. You are completely correct that whoever launched rockets from those positions probably have moved on. And, unfortunately, many of the agents doing such things are taking refuge in hospitals, schools, whatever.

But I do agree, bombing near those facilities should be pretty off limits. It's what should separate us from them - we should avoid innocent civilian casualties as much as possible, especially those who cannot move or defend themselves, such as injured/sick and children.

I'm not saying Israel is blameless. I don't agree with all of their moves or decisions. They often push back a little too hard, although I understand their reason: They will NEVER AGAIN be a victim.

And, working in a newsroom, I see a lot of the images that aren't published on most newspapers, Web sites or TV shows because of graphic content. It hurts every time I see a young child, Israeli or Palestinian, dead or injured. I'm not immune to it, even if I disagree with Hamas' cause.

But I don't think Israel can sit back and let Hamas attack them without retaliating, either.

But I definitely think Hamas needs to be called out for their actions in this, as well. The worldwide protests against Israel irritate me. Hamas was the one who decided not to renew the truce and instead launched rockets into civilian territory.

I'm rambling. And I should be working instead. I'm working on a special section about weddings...ugh.

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We can always ask Joe "The Plumber" why we're up Israel's ass.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

Can someone take away his fifteen minutes please?

Lord, he's such a tool.

Seriously? The media shouldn't be allowed to report on war? Ugh.

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Hope he gets blown up by a Hamas missile.

Austriana, I just want to say that I'm to see your comments seem so reasonable on this subject. I was expecting a much more pro-Israeli-screw-those-Palestinian-animals attitude, and the fact that you didn't gives me small hope that some day we could see some kind of peace over there.

A lot of the rocket launch sites covered on the IDF youtube channel were permanent emplacements. They didn't have to fire and move before. All they had to worry about was transport of the munitions to the site, hence the tunnel networks.

If you look at the number of patents that are held/generated by Israeli nationals you'll have another reason they're a good ally to have.

It's also a shitty position for any country to be in. They're up against a state-funded insurgency, whose benefactors can claim to have no control over their actions. Up until recently Hamas' rockets were pretty inaccurate, and couldn't carry a payload. With the economy the way it is, it's easier for them to get better equipment on the down low.

Guided munitions are still pretty destructive, and when one hits a rocket depot there's no telling where the things will go. IIRC the Israelis still drop leaflets before airstrikes, and probably send it out on their cell phone hijack system.

That'd be crazy.

"Hey, I got just a text, is it mom?....Incoming Text from: Israel? Huh? It says...'LOOK UP'...Aw, shit..."

Hamas continues to exist because the general local populace supports it. I think Israel has shown great restraint over the years all things considering. Hamas attacks Israel and they are somehow the bad guys because they don't fight back the "right" way. Hey...how about not firing rockets into Israel and they wont HAVE to fight back. It's complete bullshit.

Discussions like this one that deal only with Hamas' terrorist acts and Israel's response are the problem in a nutshell. They seem to imply that Israel and the Palestinians live like nice neighbors until one day, in a fit of hatred, Hamas fires rockets into Israel; or they look at the historical hatred between the two peoples. More constructive, to me, would be a discussion of the conditions on the ground during the so-called "cease fires".

If someone could justify the conditions under which Israel forces the Palestinians to live then I would join the outcry of "poor Israel!". But nobody ever discusses or covers that because it casts Israel in a bad light and we can't have that.

Two wrongs don't justify a third...

Israel is not the only factor, Kula. Their barricade along the Israel/Gaza Strip border only blocks one route of fuel, food, or medicine - talk to Egypt about the other border.
The fact is, the other Arab states like having the Palestinians poor, hungry, and sick - it makes them perfect foils against "The Evil Zionists". Until the other Arab states support their Palestinian brethren, nothing will ever improve.

Syuni, why must the Palestinians rely on only Arab countries? Isn't that only increasing the hatred of the west?

I do not understand your comments about Egypt. It is not Egypt that controls what happens in the Palestinian teritories, it is Israel.

The palestinian territory borders on more countries than Israel, Kula. Israel doesn't control the palestinian/egyptian border.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Additionally that kind of thinking, where we arm Israel and the Arabs arm the Palestinians, is a recipe for the kind of conflicts I hope never happen again. It is only through the disorganization and lack of unity within the Arab League that we aren't already seeing an Afghanistan or Iran/Iraq war, or Vietnam or Korea in that area. US policies in the middle east and things like helping the UAE develop nuclear power or helping Saudi Arabia develop an air force are the only things standing in the way of Arab unity against the west.

Why would it not be better to remove the hatred of the populations there by treating both sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict fairly and evenly rather than relying on what amounts to bribery of the governments in the region?

Van, I realize that, but there are agreements in place that keep Gaza basically hostage to Israel not Egypt and the Palestinians in Gaza are subject to Israeli denial of passports etc, not Egyptian. To pretend that Egypt has equal responsibility for Gaza is ridiculous.

They got along significantly better prior to the intifada(s), and the Palestinians were a lot better off economically. The troubles began when Israel declared statehood.

Israel does not control the Egypt/Gaza border, nor are there agreements to that effect. The EU controls the major crossing, and Egypt controls the others. Since the takeover by Hamas the border crossing has been clamped down, as they do not get along with the EU or Egypt.

Israel still controls the Gaza territorial waters, but it's not by any means blockaded.

Sarissa, the Egyptian border has been closed since Egypt gave up its claims to the Gaza Strip in the Camp David Accords.

Prior to the Intifada, the IDF occupied Gaza and their disregard for humanitarian concerns was what led to the uprising and the international community beginning to see the Palestinians as a seperate people. How do you call that 'getting along'? It was only 'getting along' in the sense that the world ignored their plight.

Regardless, the fact remains that Palestinians were never nor ever wanted to be Egyptians. They are regarded as a stateless people who are dependent on the good will of the UN and Israel for necessities. Israel controls the entirety of the Gaza coast and airspace. I completely fail to see how you can regard Egypt as equally culpable in the condition under which the Palestinians of Gaza Strip must live.

Kula, my point is every Arab nation points to Palestine to show how evil Israel is, just as the US points to Israel to show how evil Palestine is. There are no innocent parties, and there is really more than enough guilt to go around without laying the blame primarily at one country's doorstep. Blame Israel if you must. But blame Palestine too.

In addition to the powerful pro Israel lobbies there are some Christian groups who believe that the rebuilding of the Temple of Solomon (which would require the destruction of the Dome of the Rock) will mark the beginning of the end times, and they actively support this. They see the hand of God at work in the state of Israel, but maybe not quite the same hand that the Jews may see.

Long term this current conflict wont matter. Like Christian Lebanon, Israel will lose the war of demographics.

Syuni, I have always and continue to believe that both parties are guilty and both parties are victims, in fact I said exactly that in my first post. I do object, however to blaming the Egyptians.

Why wouldn't you blame Egypt? They have, many times in the past, closed their border to the strip preventing food, power, and materials from entering Gaza.

The majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank, not in Gaza. It is Israel that continues to force those Palestinians to live under nearly unliveable conditions. Stop trying to use a tiny strip of land bordering Egypt as a reason to deflect from the main cause of Palestinian travails (Israel).

I have been there. I assure you the border crossing at Rafah is operated by Egypt and the EU and was open for business until Hamas took over the Palestinian parliament.

The main causes of their problems imo are the militias' refusal to adhere to peace accords and Palestine's lack of statehood combined with the UN's unwillingness to press the issue. The West Bank was very close to becoming part of Jordan and then everything blew up again.

Neither Palestinian territory is self-sustainable as a country. And peace isn't really self-sustainable either when both sides are looking for the first hint of it breaking to thrash the other.

they're all fighting over one city, like kids fighting over toys.
what do you do when kids fight over a toy?
take the toy away.

The more I hear and read about it, the more I'm convinced that both sides are responsible for the problems, especially the fighting outbreaks.

Neither side is a pillar of purity here, I wish people would stop taking their biases in this to the extreme point of their side not being capable of doing any wrong.

I propose the first super-mega-masterblaster wal-mart. I turn everything for 100 miles around it a parking lot.

What would be the right thing to do if Mexico launched rockets into the United States?

Hamas isn't the government in anywhere near the way Mexico's government is.

We also are not setting up arbitrary roadblocks in Mexico, keeping people from their jobs or sometimes sources of basic humanitarian services.

We do not subject Mexico's citizens to random incursions into their land, putting up massive walls that take away people's land, or just building settlements in the middle of Baja California and calling it ours.

We're also not bombing Mexico's police force regularly helping to keep them from being effective, then complaining that Mexico's police force isn't keeping the terrorists from shooting rockets at us.

We're also not bombing Mexico's schools and then calling them terrorist training camps on the news, as a friend of mine personally witnessed twice while he worked in a Quaker school in Ramallah (that taught non-violence as a core subject, among other things).

If some random terrorist fired rockets into California from Mexico, I would think we would treat it primarily as a police action and a diplomatic issue, not bomb the hell out of Mexico City. I can't imagine our response would be to pull out of Iraq, mass up troups at the border, and invade.

There is no excuse for suicide bombers and such, but to pretend this is the same situation as someone in Mexico firing a weapon at us is simply ridiculous.

They buy A LOT of arms from us =D
There are a lot of jewish folks who vote in the US, and want to give props to the motha land !

Israel can take care of themselves.
They have almost a Russion determination and follow through, they not only kill you, they kill your cousin, your cousin's dog, and the pet groomer for your dog.