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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:09 AM 
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HyurticesVal translation: Move along, nothing to see here.

Hilarious, he's got no problem with Bush admin officials lying to the public and Congress. He's got no problem with them violating the Hatch Act. He's got no problem with Rove deleting millions of emails, so much so that the RNC had to change their policy so Rove couldn't delete emails any more. Deleting millions of emails was an honest mistake right? Obviously the Bush admin isn't hiding anything here.

As long as they do a good enough job of covering it up, we've got no problems right? Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:33 PM 
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I kept up with the developing story, and read quite a bit about the background leading up to the current flap. I remember reading about communication which gave strong indication that the firings were politically motivated. Rather than try to run down the original source material, I took the easy option of checking Wikipedia first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attorneygate
Quote:
In January 2005, deputy White House chief of staff Karl Rove asked deputy counsel David Leitch "how we planned to proceed regarding U.S. Attorneys, whether we were going to allow all to stay, request resignations from all and accept only some of them, or selectively replace them, etc."[24] In reply, White House counsel Kyle Sampson wrote that it would be "weird to ask them to leave before completing at least a 4-year term", that they "would like to replace 15–20 percent of the current U.S. Attorneys" and that the rest "are doing a great job, are loyal Bushies, etc."[24]

The inference there being that the 15-20% they wanted to fire were not "loyal Bushies". Not that they weren't doing their jobs well, not that they weren't "loyal Americans", not that they weren't impartial in prosecuting cases - they weren't "loyal" to the man, not the office. IMO, that's even worse than doing it because they weren't "loyal Republicans". It strikes the same chord of slavish devotion popular in a well-known fascist regime from the past.

Quote:
Shortly afterwards, "Sampson, chief of staff to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, came up with a checklist. He rated each of the U.S. attorneys with criteria that appeared to value political allegiance as much as job performance. He recommended retaining 'strong U.S. Attorneys who have ... exhibited loyalty to the President and Attorney General.' He suggested 'removing weak U.S. Attorneys who have ... chafed against Administration initiatives'".[25]

(bold added)

Chafed against "administration initiatives". Could this possibly refer to administration actions which might be regarded as illegal, unconstitutional or both? Perhaps even fascist?

(24=Jan Crawford Greenberg. "E-Mails Show Rove's Role in U.S. Attorney Firings", ABC News, March 15, 2007. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2954988&page=1 )
(25=Serrano, Richard A.. "E-mails detail White House plans to oust U.S. attorneys", Los Angeles Times, March 14, 2007. Retrieved on 2007-03-15.
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs ... S/70314017 )
Quote:
The documents offer an extraordinary look at political tactics within the Bush administration, and show the White House working closely with the Justice Department to justify the firings. The administration even adopted contingency plans for how to “quiet� anyone who complained. And it was the administration that gave the final go-ahead to fire eight prosecutors, all of them Bush appointees.

The documents show that in one case, officials were eager to free up the prosecutor’s slot in Little Rock, Ark., so it could be filled by Timothy Griffin, a GOP operative close to White House political guru Karl Rove — at all costs.

“We should gum this to death,� Sampson e-mailed Monica Goodling, the Justice Department’s liaison to the White House. He said officials should talk up Griffin’s appointment and try to “forestall� any criticism from Capitol Hill. Just “run out the clock� on any objections, he said.


Unless someone has references which disprove this information, I believe that communication qualifies as "evidence".

The entire situation is definitely another example of this administrations inability to tell the truth. Why lie if you're not doing anything wrong? Why conceal evidence of actions which are not improper?

I think the answer is simple. They want people focused on petty bullshit so that attention is diverted from the really heinous shit that is going on.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:53 AM 
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<a href="http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003094.php">House Committee Authorizes Subpoena for Goodling along with immunity offer</a>


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:48 PM 
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He's got no problem with Rove deleting millions of emails, so much so that the RNC had to change their policy so Rove couldn't delete emails any more


You have proof that Rove was the one who deleted the e-mails, or are you just speculating that he did it?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:55 PM 
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If you were to actually read this thread, you would know what I'm talking about. If you were actually paying attention to this story, you would know about it.

Better yet, if it was a Democratic administration, you would know about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:56 PM 
Fell for 50,000 points of Damage
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Would you give a rats ass though?

The pc answer - yes
The answer based on an assumption - no

It's just so much more fun to assume too.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:22 AM 
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SurcamStances favorite Congressman Image The social engineering liberal who knows what is best for you, who after he took over the Oversight Committee, gleefully said something along the lines now we will subpoena, subponea and subpoena the Administration until they give in.

I will sleep better at night knowing that the Honorable Mr Waxman is watching out for my best interest. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:25 AM 
I schooled the old school.
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For 6 years the Republicans got away with virtually every shady deal they did. A little balance in Washington is a good thing, not bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:41 AM 
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Good to hear Hyurtices. Indeed, after 6 years of no accountability, Waxman has a lot of work to do!

Did anyone see Bill Moyer's special on PBS last night? Wow oh wow it was excellent.

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html">Bill Moyers Journal: Buying the War</a>


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:59 AM 
Fell for 50,000 points of Damage
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Quote:
For 6 years the Republicans got away with virtually every shady deal they did. A little balance in Washington is a good thing, not bad.


So, you're saying in the next election you're voting for a Republican President? That statement is used for convenience only, since it becomes a hypocritical statement once you vote for the same party that already holds the majority.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:58 AM 
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<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/25/washington/25cnd-subpoena.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26hp&OP=56fa053aQ2F)C-s)Q20nQ5Ck(nnWu)uEEw)Eb)uY)CUkQ51TBQ3BWnB)uYQ5CBQ20ak7srn-BUeQ51WJf">From the New York Times yesterday</a>:

Quote:
Reflecting on the years he [Waxman] spent in the wilderness of minority status, he said that when Republicans controlled the oversight committee during Bill Clinton’s presidency, more than 1,000 subpoenas were issued to the executive branch.

“When President Bush took office, I saw the other extreme,� he said. The Republicans who controlled the committee issued only four subpoenas in six years to executive agencies, he said, and none directly to the Bush White House.

The ability to investigate is part of Congress’s authority to conduct oversight of the executive branch, which is separate from its more well-known function of enacting legislation….

Waxman would be happy to know you agree with him HyurticesVal.

I found at <a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/26/balancing-test/#more-8691">FDL</a>


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 7:41 AM 
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Monica Goodling to testify today at 10:15AM EST. C-SPAN will be streaming it live on CSPAN3

Who is Monica Goodling?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:49 AM 
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I knew something was up during the testimony when Rep. Davis from Alabama entered into a line of questioning that seemed to really get some Republicans on the panel ancy. So ancy that they interrupted his questions with, imo, obvious stalling tactics.

I'm speaking of course of Goodling's testimony regarding her conversation with AG Gonzales where he seemingly attempted to get his story straight with her. In my mind, it was really the highlight of the hearing.

Today I learn from the Washington Post how Rep. Davis knew to ask those questions:
Quote:
So, just how did Rep. Artur Davis (D-Ala.) know to ask all those probing, dramatic questions about the mid-March meeting between Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and Monica Goodling?

Her lawyer told him to ask, that's how. And now Democrats are questioning whether Gonzales misrepresented the facts to them less than two weeks ago.

During AG Gonzales' May 10th testimony he stated:
Quote:
I have not gone back and spoken directly with Mr. Sampson and others who are involved in this process in order to protect the integrity of this investigation and the investigation of the Office of Professional Responsibility and the Office of Inspector General," Gonzales testified under oath May 10. "I am a fact witness. They are fact witnesses."

According to Goodling's testimony this was a lie and that her conversation with Gonzales made her feel "uncomfortable". Who else did Gonzales attempt to get his story straight with?

I also got a kick out of the Republicans on the panel frequently complimenting Goodling for her testimony even as she admitted to breaking the law by using political considerations when hiring career Justice Department employees. So much so that she couldn't accurately tell the panel how many times she did it. But it's ok that a top Justice Department official broke the law because she didn't mean to. A window into a much larger problem at the Justice Department me thinks. How much longer can the Attorney General hold on?


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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:57 PM 
Can dish it but can't take it!
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Well, at least Gonzales hasn't ordered the immolation of a bunch of innocent women and children, allegedly in an attempt to capture a whacko zealot. And the rumors that at least one of the fired attorneys was in bed with drug runners also doesn't merit investigation, either. Nor do the charges that this is all being done because we can't have a non-Democrat who's also a black or hispanic hold any position of authority because it might cause people to rethink their positions on race and politics. Heaven forbid, the American people actually think about something, when they're supposed to believe whatever lies they're told by their supposed betters!

Ah, fuck it. Fill every government job in every level of government with a Democrat, and see if the Left's complaints stop.

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:54 AM 
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The hypocrisy of the various testimonies described by the Daily Show last night actually made me physically angry.

It is just plain un-fucking-believable that there are still people out there that can even try to defend this shit.


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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:14 AM 
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It's that last 20%, Fribur. They will never come around.

No AG has ever faced a vote of no confidence. That's bad. The people elected to represent.. the people.. are saying that the man who is supposed to run our department of justice is incompetent.

Just another tick against Bush in the long list for the history books.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:17 PM 
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One word sums up former U.S. Attorney Bradley J. Schlozman's testimony: Weasely

TPM has a video up with some relevant clips.

Gotta love the guy's voice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:22 AM 
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TPM has a highlight video of AG Gonzales' testimony yesterday.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:33 AM 
Uh, I mean EZboard Sux!
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And now Rove is subpoenaed by Leahy:
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/leahy-issues-subpoena-for-rove-2007-07-26.html

Quote:
“The evidence shows that senior White House political operatives were focused on the political impact of federal prosecutions and whether federal prosecutors were doing enough to bring partisan voter fraud and corruption cases,� Leahy said. “It is obvious that the reasons given for the firings of these prosecutors were contrived as part of a cover-up and that the stonewalling by the White House is part and parcel of that same effort.�


Curiouser and curiouser...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:21 AM 
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5 months and 14 days after this thread was posted, Gonzales to resign today.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:24 AM 
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You sir... are an agent of change.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:33 AM 
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I meant to express surprise that it took so long, not that this thread or I had a damn thing to do with it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:28 AM 
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I wonder who else Bush's touch of shame is going to ruin?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:07 PM 
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Quote:
I wonder who else Bush's touch of shame is going to ruin?


I would say the entire Republican party.

Much in the same way Clinton's presidency ended in scandal, and I think that contributed to Al Gore's defeat.

Very little controversy and 9/11 contributed to Bush's re-election.

A lot of controvery + a war going poorly is going to lead to the downfall of the Republican party as far as the executive branch. We've already seen it's effect on the legislative branch.

The next president of the USA is going to be a Democrat.

All of the above is just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:09 PM 
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Nekrotic wrote:
Quote:
I wonder who else Bush's touch of shame is going to ruin?


I would say the entire Republican party.

Much in the same way Clinton's presidency ended in scandal, and I think that contributed to Al Gore's defeat.



Only problem there, Al Gore didn't lose the election. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:16 PM 
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Sure, the popular election, but as you can see that doesn't count for shit. Yeah, I still can't get over that. It should never have even been that close though, and I think the part of the reason is some people were wary of anything associated with Clinton at that point. Personally, I felt Clinton really blew it there at the end, but I felt Gore would have made a great president.

If Clinton doesn't get embroiled in scandal towards the end of his administration, then I think Florida never happens, Al Gore becomes president, then who-knows-what.

Same way I feel Bush is going to hurt the Republican's party's chances of winning the next presidency.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:42 PM 
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Quote:
Only problem there, Al Gore didn't lose the election.
Except in the way that he did. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:22 AM 
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I think I know what Tarot's saying. It's a sentiment found in many Florida Democrats and given Jeb!, Katherine Harris, and the lovely Republican party here in Miami-Dade County, it could be true.

Nek, I have to disagree with that part of your assessment. Clinton left office with an approval rating somewhere around 65%. Had the Gore campaign not seen Clinton as a liability, we might have a different president today.

Bush, however, like you said, will be a drag on Republicans. But the election won't be lost by him alone. The latest person who's making that a reality is Larry Craig. The list of elected Republicans who've helped is too long to list.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:59 AM 
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You know what's interesting Leo, is that most of my Democratic friends feel the same way you did. Gore lost because he chose to distance himself from Clinton instead of riding the Clinton train into the Presidency. That he pandered too much towards the Right to try and get their votes. My Democratic friends also pointed out that Bush won Arkansas, Clinton's home state, something they said would never have happened had Gore stuck with Clinton.

Many of my Republican and non-party affiliate friends felt that Gore lost because of the religious conservative vote coming out in greater numbers to vote for Bush, mainly because they felt their was a morral erosion in the Presidency because of the Clinton scandals. They say most states were decided anyways based on party lines, and the difference maker was in swing states where a greater-than-expected turnout of religious conservatives carried the states for Bush.

I'm sure it all contributed to what happened. I just think that if Clinton doesn't get into trouble at the end, then surely Gore wouldn't choose to distance himself from Clinton, and with Clinton's support Gore wins the presidency.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:19 PM 
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Big document dump today regarding this scandal.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:23 PM 
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Yep. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/1 ... 56711.html

Hope something comes of this.


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