Patch notes

World of Warcraft PTR Patch 2.4.0

The latest test realm patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnot ... notes.html



The latest patch notes can always be found at http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/

The Sunwell Isle

* The Sunwell Isle is now available for play. This area includes a new quest hub and 5-player and 25-player instances. Join the Shattered Sun Offensive in shutting down Kael’thas’ nefarious operations. This new force is comprised by both the Aldor and Scryers and is led by the Naaru. Players will take part in claiming Sun’s Reach and setting up a larger base of operation to stop Kael’thas and the Legion.

Combat Log Improvements

* The combat log has undergone improvements that allow more robust combat filtering including the ability to define custom colors for enemies and friends as well as combat filtering for self and others.

General

* The combined forces of Shattrath have launched an attack on the Isle of Quel’Danas, to confront Kael’thas and the Legion at the Sunwell and surrounding areas. Players will now be able to gain reputation with the Shattered Sun Offensive and participate in a new set of daily quests.
* A representative of the Keepers of Time has been spotted at the World’s End Tavern in Shattrath. Players in good standing with the faction will be granted ease of passage to the Caverns of Time.
* Characters will now retain talented spell ranks so when they retalent they do not have to relearn the spells from trainers.
* Spell Haste: Spell haste now reduces the global cooldown on spells, down to a minimum of 1 second. This change does not apply to melee and ranged abilities.
* Item Cast Spells: Many spells cast by items were being cast as if the caster were the same level as the item. Most of those will now cast at the player’s level, giving them a reasonable chance to miss, be dispelled, or be resisted.
* Spirit-Based Mana Regeneration: This system has been adjusted so that as your intellect rises, you will regenerate more mana per point of spirit.
* Weapon Skill: Points will be gained faster in weapon skills for levels 1 through 59.

Racials

* Find Treasure: This ability no longer deactivates upon death.

Druids

* Empowered Rejuvenation: This talent now properly affects the final heal from Lifebloom.
* Gift of Nature: This talent now properly affects the healing from Tranquility.
* Insect Swarm: Casting lower ranks of this spell is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Lacerate: This ability now deals additional damage based on the attack power of the Druid.
* Mangle (Bear) now properly triggers a 1.5 second global cooldown, increased from 1.0.
* Natural Perfection: This ability will no longer be triggered by taking critical strikes while sitting. In addition, it is now affected by the Subtlety talent.
* When a Druid in cat form casts Pounce it will now properly animate.

Hunter

* Equipping a thrown weapon while in the middle of an Auto-Shot will no longer cause animation issues.
* Casting Flare while in any way not visible, will no longer cause your flare to be invisible to other players.
* Hunter’s Mark: Hunters with Improved Hunter’s Mark will now properly overwrite Hunter’s Mark cast by Hunters without the talent.
* The stamina tooltip for hunter pets will now display the proper health increase.

Mages

* Using low ranks of Fire Ward and Frost Ward spell will now be penalized the same way healing spells are penalized.
* Fire Ward: Using low ranks of this spell is now properly penalized like other healing spells are penalized.
* Frost Ward: Using low ranks of this spell will now be penalized the same way healing spells are penalized.
* Frostbite: When a frost spell is reflected back at a Mage, it is now possible for the Mage to suffer from the Frostibte effect.
* Ice Barrier: Using low ranks of this spell will now be penalized the same way healing spells are penalized.
* Permafrost: This talent will now correctly increase the movement slowing effect of frost Armor instead of the attack speed slow.
* Spellsteal will no longer overwrite a longer duration buff.

Paladins

* Avenger’s Shield, Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Divine Illumination: The mana energize from this talent no longer has a chance to set off other triggered effects.
* Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Judgment of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.
* Judgment of Wisdom: Some abilities (such as Frostbolt) were not triggering the mana energize effect from this spell. This has now been fixed.

Priests

* Fear Ward is now usable while in Shadow form.
* Inner Focus: Chastise now benefits from Inner Focus. In addition, Starshards no longer consumes Inner Focus.
* Power Word: Shield: Using low ranks of this spell will now be penalized the same way healing spells are penalized.
* Prayer of Mending: This spell will now fade from players who leave or enter an instance, change continents, or exit the game.
* Reflective Shield: The reactive damage from this talent no longer breaks crowd control affects which break on taking damage.
* Shadowguard: No longer consumes the charge of Inner Focus when triggered.
* Silent Resolve:This talent is now affects Surge of Light, Power Infusion, Inspiration, Spirit Tap, Blackout, Levitate, Shackle Undead, Touch of Weakness, Hex of Weakness, and Symbol of Hope.
* Touch of Weakness: No longer consumes the charge of Inner Focus when triggered. It will also function properly even when the Priest with Touch of Weakness on is silenced or stunned.
* Vampiric Touch: Casting lower ranks of this spell is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.

Rogues

* Cheat Death: A combat log message will now show when this ability activates.
* Vanish: This ability will no longer sometimes cause the UI to display Shadowmeld as active when it has been cancelled.
* Abilities that can be used while stealthed, without breaking stealth, can now be cast without breaking Vanish when used at the same time.
* Sap mechanic changed from “Incapacitate” to “Sap”. This will allow more humanoids that were previously immune to Sap to be vulnerable to Sap, but still immune to Gouge. Note that anything that removed Sap previously will still remove Sap after the change.

Shaman

* Call of Thunder: (Rank 5) now gives 5% critical strike chance.
* Earth Shield: Mana cost reduced roughly in half, and charges reduced from 10 to 6.
* Elemental Focus: This buff will no longer be removed when Shamanistic Focus is triggered.
* Healing Grace: This talent now reduces the chance your spells will be dispelled by 10/20/30%.The resistance to being dispelled modifier from this talent now applies correctly to Water Breathing.
* Rockbiter Weapon: Tooltip and error messages have been adjusted slightly.
* Stormstrike has a new icon.
* Totem timer icons will now show up under your player portrait when you cast totem spells. Right-clicking a totem timer icon will destroy that totem.
* The Shaman spell Fire Nova Totem will no longer sometime detonate without doing any damage.

Warlocks

* Demonic Knowledge: This buff will no longer remain on enslaved demons when Enslave Demon is removed.
* Pyroclasm: This talent now works correctly again with Rain of Fire.
* Ritual of Summoning can be used to summon players into instances if they meet the instance requirements.
* Shadow Ward: Using low ranks of this spell will now be penalized the same way healing spells are penalized.

Warriors

* Endless Rage will now give the correct amount of rage as intended from damage dealt by a Warrior.
* Stances: It is no longer possible to accidentally change into a stance you are already in via macros (resulting in a global cooldown and loss of rage).
* Whirlwind: Critical strikes with the off-hand weapon from this ability can now trigger Flurry and Rampage.
* Flurry will properly refresh if a crit occurs with 1 charge left.
* Improved Hamstring (Arms) effect is now subject to diminishing returns when used in PvP.

PvP

* Diminishing returns on honor for kills is being eliminated.
* Honor will now be instantly calculated, and available for player use.
* Players that have the resurrection sickness debuff will be worth no honor.
* Added new PvP daily quests that send players to Halaa and the Spirit Towers of the Bone Wastes. These quests are available for Alliance and Horde at their respective local quest hubs.
* Arenas
o Shadow Sight now increases damage taken by 5% rather than dealing damage over time. Duration has been reduced from 21 seconds to 15 seconds.
* Battlegrounds
o If a player dies 50 times or more in a battleground, they will no longer be worth honor for the remainder of that battle.
o When you first enter a battleground, messages about other players joining the battleground will be linked together for the first minute. You will see a message in AV like "28 players joined" rather than a line for each player that joined. After the first minute, it will work as it always has. In addition all of the messages about other players leaving the battleground and getting marks of honor once the battleground is complete have been removed.
o Alterac Valley
+ Captain Balinda Stonehearth's spells have been simplified, and she can no longer be slowed or locked out of a school with interrupts (although she can still be interrupted).
+ Vanndar Stormpike and Captain Balinda Stonehearth have had their health totals reduced.
+ Warmasters/marshals in Alterac Valley now increase each other’s maximum health and damage by 25%. This is a stacking effect.
+ Horde players will now start the battle closer to Drek’Thar and Frostwolf Keep.
o Warsong Gulch
+ When both flags are held, the flag carriers will receive 50% increased damage done to them after approximately 10 minutes and 100% increased damage after approximately 15 minutes.
+ Flag carriers can now be tracked 45 seconds after picking up the flag.

Professions

* Added several new tradeskill items to the new Sunwell Daily faction vendor:
o Enchanting recipe to shatter a Void Crystal into two Large Prismatic Shards.
o Enchanting recipe to increase Defense Rating by 15 for chest armor.
o Three jewelcrafting recipes to cut gems with spell haste from Dawnstones, Talasite, and noble Topaz.
o Two new meta gem recipes.
* Alchemy
o Gift of Arthas now stacks to 20.
* Cooking
o Broiled Bloodfin now increases resistances to all schools of magic instead of increasing Stamina and Spirit.
o New recipes, Charred Bear Kabobs and Juicy Bear Burgers, can be purchased from either Bale (Horde) or Malygen (Alliance) in Felwood. These recipes requires 250 skill to learn, and are created from meat found on level 48-56 bears. This will aid players in leveling up their cooking skill to 300 without fishing.
* Enchanting
o Reduced the materials required for Enchant Shield – Resistance
* Engineering
o Gagsprocket in Ratchet now sells the plans for the Minor Recombobulator.
o Goblin Jumper Cables and Goblin Jumper Cables XL now display cooldown information in their tooltips.
o Removed the level requirement for the Craftsman's Monocle.
o The stun caused by engineering Bombs and Grenades is now considered an Incapacitate effect and uses the appropriate Incapacitate diminishing returns. Bomb and Grenades can now inflict damage to targets immune to Stun and Incapacitate effects.
o A new recipe has been added for Rocket Boots Xtreme Lite, a cloth version of the Rocket Boots Xtreme. This pattern drops from Mechano-Lord Capacitus.
o Rocket Boots Xtreme now have all their stat points allocated toward Attack Power, and will no longer have Stamina.
o Rocket Boots Xtreme and Rocket Boots Xtreme Lite will cause players to drop a PvP flag if used while carrying one. (Warsong Gulch, Eye of the Storm, and Zangarmarsh)
* Fishing
o New Fishing Daily Quests! Visit the mysterious old man fishing at Silmyr Lake outside of Shattrath City to discover what treasures he has to offer.
o Find Fish now correctly tracks Schools of Tastyfish and Muddy Churning Waters.
* Herbalism
o Ancient Lichen now has a chance to drop a Fel Lotus where it used to drop a piece of random green jewelry.
o Black Lotus replaced by Fel Lotus in herbalism skinning tables for Outland creatures.
o Increased the chance that Felweed, Dreaming Glory, Ragveil, and Flame Caps will contain a Fel Lotus.
o Warp Splinter can now be skinned with Herbalism in heroic difficulty.
* Leatherworking
o Shadow Oil will now fit into Leatherworking Bags.
* Mining
o Increased the skill up potential for most smelting recipes.

Quests

* New Daily Dungeon quests for both the heroic and non-heroic five-person Magister's Terrace dungeon at the Sunwell.
* Dungeon and Group Quest Experience: The amount of experience awarded for dungeon and 5-person group quests in Outland has been increased in almost all cases.
* The number of elite Shadowsworn Drakonid patrollers on the Ata'mal Terrace has been cut in half. Most of the remainder have had their patrol paths lengthened.
* Increased the slots on Old Blanchy's Feed Pouch to 8.
* The Thunderspike no longer sparkles for Alliance characters, nor does it show up on the mini-map when Find Treasure is in use.
* "Zapper Fuel" is now flagged as a Sunken Temple dungeon quest.

Dungeons and Raids

* All 25-player raid bosses have had their cash drops increased!
* All 25- player raid bosses that drop set tokens will now drop an additional token!
* Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter Hyjal.
* Players will no longer require an attunement quest to enter the Black Temple.
* Players who have completed the attunement quests for Black Temple and Hyjal will be granted the title of “Hand of A’dal”.
* You may now fight Prince Kael’thas and Lady Vashj without first killing all the other bosses in their respective dungeons.
* The Unstable Cloud and Frost Breath spells are now treated properly as a movement impairing spells.
* Non-corporeal Undead and Mechanical creatures are now susceptible to bleed effects.
* Elemental creatures are no longer explicitly immune to poison and disease effects. Elementals with nature school immunities will still be immune to nature-based poisons, however.
* Gems obtained through Heroic difficulty instances are no longer Unique-equipped.
* Loot dropped by Doomlord Kazzak and Doomwalker has been changed to Bind on Equip. In addition, the cash dropped by these bosses has been significantly increased.
* Scale of the Sands reputation will now be awarded in Hyjal at a much higher rate.
* Caverns of Time: Heroic Black Morass
o Rift Keepers and Rift Lords now have reduced hit points.
* Caverns of Time: Mount Hyjal
o The Vials of Eternity quest is no longer necessary for entry to Hyjal. This quest is still required for faction rings.
o Azgalor's Rain of Fire now affects a smaller area.
* Caverns of Time: Old Hillsbrad
o The Human Illusion effect will now always be removed properly when a player leaves the instance.
* Hellfire Citadel: Magtheridon’s Lair
o Many gameplay elements of the encounters in Magtheridon’s Lair have been changed to decrease their overall complexity and difficulty.
* Tempest Keep: Kael’thas
o The Vapor Clouds in the Kael'thas encounter are significantly easier to see.
* Tempest Keep: The Mechanar
o The Mechanar: It is no longer possible to gain an additional Badge of Justice by bringing Cache of the Legion keys obtained in other copies of the instance.
* Tempest Keep: The Eye
o Void Reaver is now immune to Vindication again.

Items

* Players will now be able to purchase level 70 Superior quality PvP items from reputation vendors.
* Avatar Regalia: The two-piece bonus from this set will now be consumed by Vampiric Embrace as intended.
* Bloody Brass Knuckles, Eerie Stable Lantern, Baelog's Shortbow, and Snakeskin Bag have been upgraded to Superior items.
* Blue Suede Shoes can now be disenchanted.
* Crystalforged Raiment: The two-piece set bonus will now work properly. Additionally, the four piece bonus will now only work on the next Holy Light cast, as intended.
* Cyclone Regalia: Trade skills will no longer consume the Energized effect.
* Deadman's Hand: This item's effect now works while the victim is sitting. In addition, its effect is now properly considered a root for purposes of being dispelled or removed.
* Discombobulator Ray: This item will again not work on mounted players.
* Frostfire Regalia: The resistance bonus from this set now works with the Burning Crusade ranks of Mage Armor.
* Gladiator's Leather Gloves: This arena bonus will now properly school lock enemies when the damage from Deadly Throw causes them to stop channeling.
* Gnomish Mind Control Cap: Victims of the Gnomish Mind Control Cap will no longer get Forbearance when the mind control is terminated due to Blessing of Protection.
* Gnomish Poultryizer: This item will again not work on mounted players.
* Goblin Rocket Launcher: Creatures will no longer gain health while affected by the Stun from this item.
* Heavy Netherweave Bandage: It is no longer possible to have two players bandage the same target simultaneously using this item.
* Netherweave Bandage: It is no longer possible to have two players bandage the same target simultaneously using this item.
* Idol of the Crescent Goddess: The mana discount on Regrowth has been increased.
* Idol of Feral Shadows: The bonus damage to Rip has been increased.
* Idol of the Raven Goddess: The bonus healing, critical strike rating, and spell critical strike rating from this item have been increased. In addition, it no longer sometimes fails to apply the healing bonus.
* Idol of the Unseen Moon: The cooldown added in a previous patch has been removed.
* Idol of Ursoc: The bonus damage to Lacerate has been increased and the tooltip clarified to indicate it applies to both initial and periodic damage.
* Idol of the White Stag: Duration increased.
* Items intended for Retribution Paladins have had their stats adjusted. Retribution Paladins should see an increase in dps as a result.
* Jade Pendant of Blasting: This item no longer increases physical damage dealt.
* Libram of Absolute Truth: The Holy Light mana discount has been increased.
* Libram of Divine Purpose: The bonus damage on Seal and Judgment of Righteousness has been increased.
* Libram of Mending: The mana regeneration buff has had its duration increased. The name of the buff granted by this item changed to Grace of the Naaru to avoid having the same name as the Light’s Grace talent.
* Libram of Righteous Power: The bonus damage for Crusader Strike has been increased.
* Libram of Souls Redeemed: The bonus for Flash of Light has been decreased and the bonus for Holy Light has been increased.
* Libram of Wracking: This item now increases the damage on Holy Wrath and Exorcism instead of decreasing their mana cost.
* Masquerade Gown: The spirit bonus from this item will now properly trigger all benefits from the Tree of Life talent.
* Mojo: A pvp-flagged player can no longer kiss Mojo and cause non-flagged players to become flagged.
* Moongraze Stag Tenderloin can now be consumed by hunter pets that eat meat.
* Noggenfogger Elixir: It is no longer possible using this item to keep the Old Hillsbrad human illusion outside of the instance.
* Pendant of the Violet Eye: Paladin Judgment spells will again properly trigger this item.
* Players can now only carry 80 Conjured Manna Biscuits at a time.
* Steam Tonk Controller: This item can no longer trigger the Warrior talent Second Wind when it is driven out of range by the Warrior.
* The On Use effect has been properly changed to passive for the following items: Blue Overalls, Brantwood Sash, Firewalker Boots, Gloves of Kapelan, Hellion Boots, Hibernal Gloves, Hibernal Pants, Kimbra Boots, Mistscape Gloves, Nightsky Trousers, Sacred Burial Trousers, Turquoise Sash, and Woolen Boots, Spinesever.
* Tome of the Lightbringer: The block value and buff duration have been increased.
* Totem of the Pulsing Earth: The mana discount for Lightning Bolt has been increased slightly.
* Weightstones and Sharpening Stones: The bonus damage from these temporary enchantments now works while shapeshifted.
* Winterfall Firewater: The tooltip no longer specifies only melee attack power.

User Interface

* The Interface Options screen has been completely redesigned. AddOns that interact with the Interface Options screen will need to be updated.
* Combat Log Improvements
o New tabs are available for sorting combat messages.
o ctrl-right clicking functionality has been added for individual information sorting
o Colors may now be assigned for friends and enemies
o The WoWCombatLog.txt file format has been changed to make it easier for programs to read.
o The ability to chat-link player spells and talents.
* Cast sequences work with slot numbers again.
* GM messages now appear with a Blizzard icon near their name.
* You can now declare war on a faction in the reputation UI while you are in combat.
* Spell haste and Armor Penetration will now display on the character sheet. (Armor Penetration displays in the hit rating section). Spell Penetration now displays under the spell hit section.
* Weapon enchants are now shown at the character selection screen.
* The friends list now has a notes field per friend. Click on the note icon to add a note for a particular friend.
* There is now a UI option to display free bag space. When turned on, your backpack will display the total number of free spaces available in all your bags.
* You can now link quests into the chat log by Shift-Clicking on the quest name in the chat log.
* Merchants now display how many pages of merchandise they sell (Page 1 of 2).
* Guild Bank Changes
o Ranks can now be set to allow withdraw of funds or allow repair with funds or both.
o When purchasing a bank tab, it takes money out of the guild bank before it takes your personal money. This is logged as well.
o Each Tab now has an info pane. This pane can be used for requests or for rules about the tab or anything at all really.
* When looting Bind on Pickup items, the confirmation dialogue now lists the name of the item in the dialogue. You can now verify that you are picking up the correct bind on pickup item.
* Bind on Pickup items that only you can pick up (Heroic Badges for instance) will no longer bring up a confirmation dialogue.
* Players can now opt out of looting for group loot, round robin and need before greed looting styles. If a player turns this on, they will not get a looting turn in the loot cycle. This can be turned on from the right-click menu on your own portrait.
* In Master Loot mode, all players in the group will see sparkles on corpses that have loot above the master loot threshold. This lets everyone see what the master loot items are, though they cannot interact with them. Only the master looter can loot those items still.
* The names over the heads of nearby players who are on your friends list will appear in a different color now so you can tell when they are nearby.
* Stacked items for sale at the auction house now display the per unit price and per unit buyout price in the item mouseover.
* The profession UI search field has been improved and now allows for searching of more types of things. For instance you can search for items by socket color, by effect ("Critical Strike" for instance) or search gems by their effect ("Strength" for instance). In addition, the searching of items by level has been made more intuitive. You can now search for items by level with "15-20" to search for items that you can make that have a minimum level required of 15 to 20.
* The Tooltip for player Dodge/Block/Parry in the character sheet has been changed slightly.
* Optimized particle system rendering for improved frame rates.
* The casting bar will now display properly when casting Blizzard (mage) or Rain of Fire (warlock) with spell haste.
* For additional notes on Lua and XML changes please visit the UI & Macros Forum.

World Environment

* Alterac Valley, Arathi Basin, Warsong Gulch, Blade’s Edge Arena, Lordaeron Arena, and Nagrand Arena: Players who fall below the world in these environments will now die instead of being stuck.
* Creature versions of Intimidating Shout have been changed to Frightening Shout, and the primary target of the ability is now feared instead of stunned.
* Goreclaw the Ravenous can now be skinned.
* Interacting with objects (chests, mining nodes, herbs) should no longer aggro neutral creatures.
* Monstrous Kaliri have learned how to chase players going straight up.
* Shardtooth Mauler: This creature now drops meat like other bears.
* Outland Rare Spawn
o The following creatures have had their hit points and damage significantly reduced: Collidus the Warp-Watcher, Fulgorge, Hemathion, Kraator, Marticar, Morcrush, and Nuramoc

Bug Fixes

* Fixed an error that was causing many auctions to never complete due to the item no longer being on the auction house.
* Splintertree Raiders will now respawn with Torek if Duriel Moonfire and her guards are killed while the Raiders are still alive.
* Female Draenei can no longer become stuck under a root in the tunnels leading to Blackfathom Deeps, Ashenvale.
* The quest description text for "The Corpulent One" no longer refers to it being a group quest.
* Saber/Tiger Mounts will now make footprints when walking backwards in snow.
* Ogri'la Peacekeeper's weapons have been scaled properly.
* Unplugging speakers/headphones during the opening cinematic will no longer freeze the cinematic until canceled.
* Pets are now able to properly attack mobs near the walls on the ramps in Zul'Aman, Bear Wing.
* The flag on the battle map in Eye of the Storm will no longer show up as Horde controlled even if an alliance player has picked it up.
* Channeling spells will no longer continue to show the channeling bar after zoning into arena battlegrounds.
* Blood Elf corpses now properly have loot in Alterac Valley battlegrounds.
* Nazan in Hellfire Citadel: Ramparts will no longer sometimes not land on the ground until after Vazruden the Herald is killed or Nazan is heavily damaged.
* It is no longer possible to be saved to a Heroic instance while not meeting the requirements to get into it.


Some rather controversial stuff contained with this one, namely the removal of attunements for T6 content. Seems some people get spooked and think those that can't down Kael are going to be rampaging through their playground.

I personally am happy to see the introduction of more daily pvp quests as well as the return of the quest, 'For Great Honor' (not sure if this is mentioned in the patch notes).

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

This game just keeps getting better and better. They keep putting some really functional and great improvements into the game. I never remember EQ being as progressive as this.

Hell, I just wanted to congratulate the Gruul-level guilds on their new loots from Hyjal.

The only people who are against the attunments being lifted are second sting end gamers anyway.

It will be as gamebreaking as removing the SSC/TK attunments. I.E. none.

people will be gear checked when they hit hyjal and BT. Cant kill leo. al'ar, lurker? well gl killing in these places. Also if you dont do the attunement quests you miss out on the bad ass rep rings wikth scales of sand. Personaly i think its gay that they removed the attunements.

_________________

Sadly, I think you're serious.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Poor Venen. Other guilds are going to race his guild to Hyjal and kill the bosses before his guild can get them.

This is the new system. Every new content patch will remove the requirements from the one before it. There is still separation for those who invest the time, but hopefully you won't see an expansion come out when 90% of players have never even seen the upper ends of the previous expansion. I didn't play at the time but I've heard some complain that they never got to see Naxx before TBC arrived. This may allow some of us to see Hyjal and BT before WOTLK. I'm all for that.

I lost the desire to be cutting edge in an mmo after EQ. Too many more important things.

There was a song written about those who are driven to insanity about the removal of attunement. Here it is:


I work down at the Pizza Pit
And I drive an old Hyundai
I still live with my mom and dad
I'm 5 foot 3 and overweight
I'm a scifi fanatic
A mild asthmatic
And I've never been to second base
But there's whole ‘nother me
That you need to see
Go checkout MySpace

'Cause online I'm out in Hollywood
I'm 6 foot 5 and I look damn good
I drive a Maserati
I'm a black-belt in karate
And I love a good glass of wine
It turns girls on that I’m mysterious
I tell them I don't want nothing serious
'Cause even on a slow day
I could have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I’m so much cooler online
So much cooler online

When I get home I kiss my mom
And she fixes me a snack
And I head down to my basement bedroom
And fire up my Mac
In real life the only time I’ve ever even been to L.A
Is when I got the chance with the marching band
To play tuba in the Rose Parade

Online I live in Malibu
I pose for Calvin Klein, I've been in GQ
I'm single and I'm rich
And I've got a set of six pack abs that would blow your mind
It turns girls on that I’m mysterious
I tell them I don't want nothing serious
'Cause even on a slow day
I could have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I’m so much cooler online
Yeah, I'm cooler online

When you got my kind of stats
It’s hard to get a date
Let alone a real girlfriend
But I grow another foot and I lose a bunch of weight
Every time I login

Online
I’m out in Hollywood
I’m 6 foot 5 and I look damn good
Even on a slow day
I could have a three way
Chat with two women at one time
I’m so much cooler online
Yeah, I’m cooler online
I’m so much cooler online
Yeah, I’m cooler online

Yeah, I’m cooler online

Yeah, I’ll see ya online

You know it. Regarding Rage Winterchill, maybe not easier than Gruul, but any of the first bosses in SSC or TK. The only real difficult part is the adds.

We threw in a couple attempts at the second boss on the same day and he wasn't much harder.

I'm not against removing attunement because of the loots or anything like that. It's also not just the fact that it's further watering and dumbing down the game to the least common denominator. I simply like the idea attunement. It should be done similar to Everquest where not everyone has to be flagged, only a certain percentage. There's just something about zoning into a place and knowing that a large segment of the population will not be able to even see the place. Even if the bosses that came before weren't all that tough, at least you know you did something to earn the right to be there.

Felt the same way about PoP in EQ, which was the epitome of attunement. I remember zoning into POTime after a long night of Rathe attempts and it really felt like something special. Not because we were actually going to attempt anything(it was pretty late at night as I recall), but just being in the zone knowing we did something to get there was really satisfying.

It's really not that huge of a deal, it's more of an aesthetic beef. The forum whiners won out on this one. These are the same people that complained about not being able to see the game's content just because they paid the 15 dollar entrance fee. I wonder if some of these same people also complained about some of the early NES and SNES games because some of the bosses were too difficult and therefore they missed out on 20-30 percent of the game. Clearly, just because you buy a game means you should be handed all of the content on a silver platter. To hell with challenges and rewards.

Personally I'd feel the same way whether I was in a high end, medium end, or low end guild. And yea, the Rage Winterchill thing is a joke. It's a few extra loots for lower end guilds, I could care less. What's unfortunate is that the crybabies who want everything handed to them won. I feel the same way when anything is handed out and nerfed, whether big or small.

dont realy see many guilds comming in and getting free loots from this place. Rage is easy if you can clear ssc and tk on a regular basis. But if you areo nly able to do gruuls and maybe 1/6 ssc 1/4 tk i dont see this being a gravy tain mob.

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That statement alone is enough reason to remove attunements. No one with an ounce of business sense makes a product that caters to exception rather than the rule, where its audience is concerned. Gee, you get all warm and fuzzy because you accomplished something beyond the skill/time/organizational resources of 95 percent of the player base. Were that the end of story, the blizzard programmers have essentially wasted their time making those zones. Unlocking them as new expansions arrive is the best reasonable course of action. It maintains the separation between the high end and the rest by giving them a new "elite" level of play, and it allows the largest possible segment of the player base to use the largest reasonable segment of their product. It's good sales. Marketing to the smallest subset of your consumer base available might appeal to you as a player, but I'm pretty sure it's not what's gotten the folks at Blizzard where they are today.

I would hardly call keeping out perhaps 1-2 percent of the expansion's overall content catering to the exception. This was a tiny, tiny fraction of it when you look at what the expansion offered as whole. And on every level - land mass, things to do, and to a lesser extent time spent inside.

That being said, I agree it's pretty good business sense, but only because most of the playerbase is stupid and eager for instant gratification. You can pretty much call any challenge/reward a "warm and fuzzy feeling".

I will admit some of the abomination waves can be a little rough at first. The death and decay is not even worth mentioning, but I could see the ice tombs causing some issues. It's more a question of how fast your healers are as opposed to a gear check.

I think Zatronn hit the nail on the head. Blizzard plans on opening old content when a new expansion is released -- as such, most of the players have the realistic opportunity to experience it -- regardless of skill, gear, level, etc.

The straight to Kael/Vashj changes were done because of the new horseshit world event upcoming to unlocking sunwell plateau.

The arguments against the tier 6 flag removal are hilarity. Thread after thread of agruments crying how Blizzard made raiders acomplishments disappear.

It's all garbage.

Nobody gives a shit if your guild killed Kael.

Nobody gives a shit if your guild is still in Kara.

It's all instanced. It is meaningless outside of your personal circle.

Spare the "We're making our mark" tripe. If these people gave two shits about making a mark, they would have beaten the content a year ago. In no way does removing these flags strip you of personal acomplishments as they are still there to overcome.

It's pretty common knowledge that the Hyjal bosses themselves are not overly difficult, much of the challenge lies in being able to clear the waves leading up to the boss.

I personally would love to see a guild with less than 5 unique boss kills in T5 content get through the trash. Not to say it's impossible, just that if they succeed, they very much deserve the loot.


I'm not sure if you meant this towards Venen specifically and his example or as a broad statement. If the latter, than I disagree, as I stated in a reply to Xantheus a while back, a world first, a 'continent' first, a server first, a faction first, etc. are all significant accomplishments which are no less notable because of instanced content.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Wait a sec. you're arguing about the purity of PoP? Weren't you the guys who did like 100 player Rallos Zek raids? Heh, just teasing you there.



For your point about NES. Dude. You should know from playing mmo's so long that it has very little to do with skill and a whole lot more to do with time invested at the indvidual level. I've got the skill to do Black Temple. I just don't have the time to play in a guild that does that type of content. Simple. Don't pretend that you don't know that.

Curious, how many hours/days do you or your guild spend raiding a week?

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

People should realize by now that the lifting of attunements fit their business model, ensuring that the 98% of the player base that is not cutting edge is spending their 15 bones and getting what they want out of it, thats why the nerfs come along with the attunement lift. It's about the dollars, it's always been about the dollars, and it happens every content push.

You figure after this long people would be used to it.

_________________
"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

I'm totally used to it =) Doesn't make it any less stupid every time they do it.



That wasn't really my point. I agree completely that very few things in an MMORPG require skill, especially when it comes to raiding. Raiding is primarily about getting the right people online at the right times, and then having all 25 people not fuck up for a few minutes during an encounter. The comparison to the NES is only in terms of NOT being able to accomplish a certain feat(whether it requires skill, time, or anything else) and subsequently not being able to see the content that comes as a reward for doing it. You didn't beg for a game update to Ninja Gaiden just so you could see the last area, did you?

No, I vividly remember breaking controller after controller in half till I beat that game.

All 3 of them in fact.

And do you remember the part where you had to jump while holding onto a ladder, and that hawk would almost ALWAYS killed you.

Nerf that shit.

_________________
"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

MMO raids do require skills, just not the same ones as console games. Don't diminish organization as a skill, it's critical to the success of every raid. As the general level of gear improves, the amount of organization needed for older zones diminishes. This is the point where more casual guilds can kill content that it once took a committed team following a specific game plan to accomplish.

Attunements have never been there to keep the lower guilds from seeing content, but only to keep the elite guilds busy. The high end players burn through the content so quickly, games must include as many time sinks as they can for these players. Once new content is available for the high end raiders, the attunements no longer serve any function. The level of coordination and organization needed to succeed in these zones is the only protection vs casuals they ever needed.

It's an excellent idea, nobody loses with this change. Guilds who've killed Kael do not care that other guilds are getting an easier look at the first couple encounters in T6, the vast majority will be in Sunwell thus maintaining their personal sandbox.


With a statement like this, you've obviously never seen the difference between a good tank/healer and a bad tank/healer.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Venen's tiny ePeen loses with the change because this, obviously, was his only way to justify his gaming ("hehe, I am so uber because I can go where 85% of the game's population can't go"). It's pretty pathetic (yet, not at all surprising) that he pouts about this change. I doubt he is pouting that they made some of the boss fights that his guild is just now killing easier several patches ago.

[insert Venen's "I wish they'd make them harder because I prefer a challenge!" reply here]

The only thing I'd wish is that they'd address some older lore rather than creating new stuff like the Sunwell. Sargeras is supposedly alive, if not well, his physical body never having set foot on Azeroth, just his spirit, which is banished to the twisting nether. Then there's Azshara, queen of the naga, a demigod and old ruler of the Highborne, there's that one goblin city that was never fleshed out, the Dark Riders, the Scythe of Elune and it's ties to Deadwind Pass, Gilneas, the dimension where the Worgen come from, the Emerald Dream and the Green Dragon aspects, Timbermaw Hold, that other Uldaman type place in southern Tanaris, the Titans in general, Deathwing, Azshara Crater.

While that last one isn't lore, I'm sure people would love a new BG that's not Eye of the Gulch Basin, and some revamps to old BGs. Not changes like Alterac Valley, but actual map terrain/objective changes, switch things up a bit. This is all in-game stuff with existing, partial, unfinished lore. But all they're doing is making up new shit and lolspacegoating lore/naaru/draenei bullshit.

The argument for not lifting flags fit perfectly back in the old EQ days because your greatest challenge wasn't the mobs, it was the people you were competing against.

Keying for Sleepers Tomb not only made you more powerful as a guild, controlling the key mobs kept your opponents weaker than you.

The removal of the no entry without key stipulation was a pretty substantial tactical advantage lost.

Killing Fennin Ro not only geared you up as a guild, but kept undesirables out of Plane of Earth.

I'm not aware of any flag changes there, but you could use temple of sol ro or whatever that zone was as an example.

People try to compare the WoW flag changes to those situations of EQ old, and it just simply cannot compare. There is zero loss happening here. Zero negitive elements and no argument could convince me otherwise. Not one single player outside of a raid group can have any negitive impact upon the success and failure of that raid.

In this state of the expansion, guilds should be worried more about the fact that they can down raid targets, and not the position wowjitsu ranks them.

Nice try Neesha, but I bitched about the same amount when they opened up SSC and TK, and my guild benefitted greatly from that. I could see opening up SSC though, only because it was the first full 25-man raid zone(Gruul doesn't really count as a full "zone") and you couldn't access it without doing a bunch of 10-man stuff. Even then, I would've been just fine with keeping it locked. Having Loot Reaver on farm status really benefitted us a lot though either way.

As I said, could really care less if I'm the one being locked out or I'm the one inside the zone. Good job trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator of argument, though, tough man of the internet. And a big grats on your High Astromancer kill! Also, how the fuck did you die on Lurker? That's what I'd call "pathetic". You shouldn't be gaming.

As for Argrax, I'd say the person who "loses" in all this is the player who wants to see more reward for challenge, not less. You can use that exact same argument for anything that is nerfed under the sun.



Just because there are horrible tanks out there does not indicate that there is some grand epitome of tanking ability out there. Every game has a different bar for how high you can take your skill level, and looking at the worst players of the game is no way to measure how far you can take your skill. Only when compared to incredibly good players can you see the difference, not with bad players alone. I have been on both the healing and tanking side of many encounters(pally and warrior), granted that pally takes very little skill compared to other healers, but there's really not much to it on EITHER end. Even on some of the supposed toughest fights for a tank it always comes down to very simple patterns.

I'd agree that organization counts for something, but I'd call it more strategic thinking than "skill". I view skill as being able to execute a plan correctly, where organization IS the plan. Most guilds will have a few intelligent people that know how to read wowwiki correctly, but there are still quite a few that cannot have all 25 people execute it correctly.

Oh yea, just throwing this out there before the epeen comments: My guild is hardly endgame progression by any measure. I just figure if Neesha is gonna play board warrior again he should at least be able to survive a Lurker fight. No worries though, I think your epeen on the forums is bigger than mine could ever be in a game.

I completely agree with this. Bring back some of the lore that made us buy WoW in the first place. WC2 and WC3 can be built on so much.

The burning crusade story needed to be done, really though. How long were we going to ask, "wtf is illidan?" Hopefully when Lich King comes out we can be done with Illidan Stormrage, Kael'thas, and Vashj and move on even past Arthas. I'm more worried that they will somehow make up some new bullshit heroes to fight Arthas or have us end up "saving" Arthas from the Lich King.

Oh no, Venen is attacking me because I died on a Lurker fight! I die on that fight all the time because I have difficulty jumping out of the lava and usually get stuck under the rock, for whatever reason (lag, etc). But hey, if if I am the only person who has ever died on the Lurker fight, which obviously I am, then I must be pretty pathetic. I must admit that it is cool that Venen had to go to the Vita website to see where we were in progression before attempting his lame attack. "Oh, they haven't killed Vashj or Kael yet, I can make fun of them!" Would you like to make fun of my GEAR as well. I am sure my spec could use a little bashing.

Givin hit the nail on the head, as usual, with his post.

I could beat both of you in a duel.

End of thread.

_________________

Blizzard already said they want to figure out a way to save Arthas. By removing the armor from him because he is still alive, not dead. I'm thinking Arthas will be saved, and not killed off like the others etc.

The sunwell content is going to get wrecked anyway.

The attunement shit won't really matter because there are already servers with 20+ guilds in BT and 10+ guilds that have downed Illidan.

If anything Sunwell is the test of who can keep a raid force around long enough to kill everything. Who wants to keep farming hyjal and bt forever, the hardest part is staying awake during the trash in hyjal and keeping people at their keyboards on the way up to mother.

There are so many hardcore raiding guilds that have lost most of their core because everyone is bored.

PvP is bland and dead. PvE has no new content besides "hey lets farm badges for offspec gear upgrades". Sunwell needs like 20 more bosses than it has.

Yeah, I'm pretty much thinking Sunwell will be crushed in a week, unless they pull another C'thun/Ouro cockblock.

It isn't just the armor that is affecting Arthas. It's also Frostmourne. Why does every expansion always have to end with a happy note? They could really run with this one and just have it end with an earth shaping event that opens for more additional lore to come, without affecting their already existing creations.

They seem to be stuck on the formula of "Heroes jump hurdles untill they reach bad guy and kill him off". I really think the death of Illidan was unnessecary, as well as a huge huge loss to the overall lore. There was so much unfinished buisness between him and all the tie ins to have him wrote off like nothing. He was a memorable villain, moreso I think than other big story guys such as Nefarion and Rend.

The entirity of the Caverns of Time Mt. Hyjal battle confuses me also. You are to go back in time to stop something that didn't happen in the first place to save an event in time that never took place.

Obviously the idea they had to release WC3 expansions alongside WoW is out the window.

My fear for WotLK is that they will turn Frostmourne into just another dropped legendary, when it is a huge huge huge driving force behind a branch of Warcraft lore that no regular person should weild.

I really think they should not use the more notable items as player obtainables. Ashkandi, Gorehowl and even the Warglaves. I felt it takes a bit away from the scope of these creations when you see someone named Thepaladin, Xxwarriorxx or Bigjimslade weilding them. Not only weilding these items, but where they come from should make sense. Ashkandi I can understand, but how the hell did Prince Malchezzar get Gorehowl? It makes zero sense.

Really I guess the main concerns I have is I do not like constantly killing off bad guys just because they drop items. Granted we don't need a Burning Legion vs Everybody Round 3, it just seems pretty silly to be able to eradicate the ultimate evil in the universe simply by cutting off Kil'Jadens cock as it is coming through a portal.

Lag? What the fuck? The only thing that could possibly affect your ability to jump over the rock would maybe be framerate, which has nothing to do with lag. It's not that you died on the Lurker fight, it's that you died with everyone else up to a water spout which you can see from a mile away.

I'd follow your recommendation on looking at your armory, but it goes without saying you're too stupid to pvp anyway. My 2box 1650 rating is probably higher than yours.

Take your pathetic attempts at attacks elsewhere, son.

/agree 100 percent there. I honestly feel sorry for those guilds at the top. They have waited 6 months for SOMETHING to do, and now they get a small helping.

And of course agree totally with the PvE and PvP comments. Blizzard is too stupid to release a few more symmetrical pvp maps and rotate them out every couple weeks. They could even go so far as to bring in some user-spawned maps(don't need a program or anything, just send in the 3d concept). Doesn't need to be anything fancy, and if anyone complains about imbalance, the map will be gone in a few weeks anyway. Hire some goddamned CSS or TF2 map designers if you have to. PvE 5-man is dead too with the same heroics your grandaddy ran a year ago with no particular purpose for running them.

lol now we have "you suck at PVP". Obviously, you must be a regular on the official boards since you seem to have all of their third grade insults down. Not that it matters, but my highest PVP rating was around 1750 at one point, when I actually did it with any regularity. Not great, but wasn't bad (Rogue/Hunter combo, Season one). I still do it now and then for fun, but not to get anything out of it. Seriously, take your third grade insults elsewhere. Ur guild sux and ur pvp rating sux only reinforces what we already know about your dumb ass. My god, you're even more pathetic than even I gave you credit for.

Framerate, lag, being a Gnome, WhatTheFuck ever. I die to the Lurker, I am terrible. And you have to 2 box in PVP because people in your guild probably feel the same about you as people on these boards. Yea, I'd brag about that one. Way to pay for 2 accounts in the game that you bitch about so much. One day my life will be as meaningful as yours. One day I will have a 2000 PVP rating on my PVE server so I can be like the mighty, lonely, Venen!

What a joke.

3rd grade insults indeed. I'm attempting to communicate with you on your own level considering your first couple posts here. My point here, though, is that you're not particularly good at anything beyond posting retarded flames. You suck at the game, you suck at real life(how's that phone answering coming along?), and arguably you suck at flaming here, where you try to flame me without provocation and fail miserably. 99 percent of your posts consist of lameass 1-liners anyway with no content.

Anyway, with regard to me being on a PVE server - I regret that to a degree, but I only joined it because my friends are there. A PVP server would still be my preference for fun, but it was not to be. Definitely not rerolling after the efforts I put into these two characters =) I honestly don't really regret it though, there are some really great people in my guild and on my server in general.

Keep the flames comin, it's all you're good at(arguably!).

Almost forgot:



How stupid do you have to be, precisely, to use this argument? I mean clearly, due to the fact that I have criticisms of the game, it obviously has no good points for which to keep me playing it. Take this pile of shit speak back to the WoW boards.

Even if WoW has a number of low points which brings down what it could be, it doesn't mean that any other particular game has enough high points to make it superior.

Logic is your friend.

I could probably beat you both with no cooldowns!

Not if you get trained first.

Sarissa Candyangel

Oh snap

Actually, Neesha is pretty good at WoW! I heal him sometimes when I feel charitable. /nod.

I couldn't agree with you more. The fact that I have a Gorehowl that I never even really use is pretty ridiculous, but what really bothers me is when this shit just starts to drop and rot or get handed out to every tom dick and harry. Arena rewards have killed the lore a bit, too. I understand why it's there... kinda. But how does a merciless_gladiators_sword_01 really do anything for the lore of the game? Especially when it's better than my "Sun Eater", which has a text talking about how it destroys worlds. Ok, Blizzard, whatever.

If WOTLK lets us kill Arthas, I'll be pretty disappointed. I hope Blizzard comes through on this in some sort of creative fashion, though.