Man...my 2v2 hasn't been godly but we've hit 1700 ish at times. Not terrible for 2 rogues when you get nothing but pally/warrior teams.

Our first 3 matches on tuesday went great....7 matches tonight 1 win 6 losses. Each team had 2 or 3 vengeful items, a few vindicator pieces and merc glad gear. It's like the 5v5 folks are slumming it in 2v2. Never been rocked so hard so fast by so many hodge podge teams that we'd normally tear to shreds lol..

Anyone else notice this or did I just have a horrible week?

Hope you enjoyed hemo overpoweredness while it lasted.

4 weeks on test = fine.

2 weeks on live = OP.

Their logic baffles me.

Yeah I've been following those threads on the board all day. Back the to the exciting and ohhhhhhhhhh so versatile combat swords again. Whee.

Arenas right now are apt to be terrible (i.e., mis-matched) because the teams that were highly ranked last season are back to 1500 with everyone else. Thus, lots of decent teams are going to be pitted against much stronger ones.

Hopefully this effect will subside after a few weeks.

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Yeah Hehe I realized that later last night.

According to one post the nerf is a 4.7% overall damage decrease while AR is in effect. So it's not going to make a huge difference. AR/hemo will still be better than combat maces, just not as glaringly so. I can't say I enjoy these flip-flop buff/nerfs rogues are getting.

Supposedly...Supoooooosedly they are also moving prep further down the tree. I'll believe that when I see it.

AR/Hemo doesn't seem like a smart build. I'm 11/26/24 right now and it's pretty nice. The nerf will suck.

Here's my profile if you want to see the build:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... her&n=Peno

cloak of shadows will be gettign nerfed also, it will help resist dots and spells cast after its on but it will not clear what is on you. Cant wait for this one as a lock lol.

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Where did you hear that? Sounds like something the idiots from the official boards would say.

I was talking about PvP. AR/Hemo is the best. The nerf sucks for PvE hemo, but well...PvE sucks anyway. That's definitely a fake rumor too. If there was a Cloak of Shadows nerf the rogue forums would be filled with 7-11k hp warlocks under 300 resilience gloating about it, and lots of QQ threads in general.

This completely redefines the intent of the ability. I'll believe this one when I see it.

Where did you see this?

Right now locks are really the only class grossly affected by this ability...and a smart lock will simply force the rogue to use it early and reapply. The lazy lock cries when he stacks all his dots at once and then watches the rogue CloS them off. Currently CloS is one of the only things allowing rogues to have a chance in pvp, when everyone and their mom has dots and magical snares and roots.

I play a lock as well, and I plow rogues using this tactic, even with horrible gear and 33 resilience. It's all about how you play it. Taking away or altering Clos at this stage in pvp will just put rogues right back to free kill for everyone.

As for AR/Hemo it's not so hot for pve obviously but it romps in pvp.

A good rogue should be able to mow through your 33 resilience while DOT'd up and Cloak towards the end (or after you are dead).

Without wanting to throw the word "good" and "bad" around (because I am still relatively new to playing with a pvp bent), I have figured out that much like when I see a pally bubble before a certain point in the fight, if I can make a rogue throw CoS early to get my 50% CoE off of them, I will most likely win.

This isn't to say I don't regularly get raped by rogues. :p

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Most classes are balanced around what their potential is, and not where most players skill levels are. This is a trend magnified by the arena best of the best tournaments where you see each class really played to its fullest.

Classes with a lot going on (like rogues) really shine in those matches, and that translates to life being more difficult for the average player. More vanilla classes like warlocks get the opposite side of this effect because even a mediocre player is able to take advantage of most of the class perks.

Having played both classes for years now, life has been pretty easy as a lock since deathcoil, and a real effort to excel as a rogue. I'm pretty comfortable saying I'm a good rogue based on how I do in most battles, but every once in while I'll fight one who is clearly on another skill level that makes me wish I could string together a battle plan like they just executed. I can't remember that ever happening with my warlock, and I think that's just a function of the class mechanics, not a lack of highly skilled locks.

Bottom line for me is it's going to make life harder for me to get an 1850 rating now. I don't know that it's uncalled for, since things have been pretty smooth for me this week as a maces AR/Prep (went 9-1), but week 1 was probably easy for most people. Last season 1800 was a hard rating for me to stay above, with most of my time being high 1700's, so I'm hoping I can snag 1850 before this hemo nerf hits. All I really want is some new weapons to try mutilate out, and I don't want to waste arena points getting the same season daggers as the maces I already have.

edit: typo

Yup hehe. Many do.

Even more rogue changes.

Rogues

* Ambush: The damage multiplier on this ability has been increased from 250% to 275%.
* Cheat Death: When multiple attacks land simultaenously, all those resolved after the attack which triggered Cheat Death will now have their damage reduced by 90% as intended. However, the combat log will still report them doing full damage.
* Hemorrhage: Rank 4 of this ability no longer has its charges consumed by non-physical attacks and spells.
* Hemorrhage weapon damage reduced from 125% to 110%, but the damage debuff has been increased.
* Hemorrhage: This ability now correctly does additional damage when its debuff has already been applied.
* Preparation now resets the cooldown of Shadowstep and no longer resets the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush.
* Shadowstep now adds a 3 second, 70% movement speed increase.
* Sinister Calling now also increases the percentage damage bonus of Hemorrhage and Backstab by 2/4/6/8/10%.

What trash. Devs have a hard-on for their trash ability no one seriously uses. Hemo AND AR/Prep nerf. It really is back to combat maces for arena.

Wow, that Prep nerf is pretty lame.

In the extreme. It both removes the lil bit of pve that hemo worked for and at the same time takes a big ol bite out of pvp's viability.

Specced deep into Sub will get ya most of the hemo dmg back from the nerf...but wtf do I want Shadowstep for when it really only benefits daggers. The bonus applies to garrote too, sure...but a mage will ice block it off and other classes will just get healed more hehe.

That vengeful stuff is godly tho..that armor ignore bonus must help a lot. there was a mutilate rogue in EotS last night that was the most dangerous rogue I'd come across in a long time. After looking at his armory tho I figured out he was one of those one trick pony rogues. He had that +40 energy trinkets and would bust taht along w/coldblood for massive quick kills. he was pretty damn durable tho too.

One thing I never figured out was that obnoxious figure 8 lightspeed zipping back and forth thing. Is it lag that makes them so hard to see? He wasn't sprinting but was zipping around in a figure 8 so fast I could barely even keep facing him with mouse looking.

I think Blizzard is showing poor judgement with taking AR off of prep. Lowering hemo damage should be enough to bring the 31/30 spec back in line with how popular it is. This seems like a cheesy way to force rogues into leaving a viable pvp spec.

I do think the SS buff will be good enough for me to use it and get to 1850 rating though. With all the buffs it's gotten now, it's finally good enough to use. My sustained damage will actually be higher now, though I'll miss out on the 2 AR bursts. Lower burst and no mace stuns, but I'll gain cheat death and SS. Close enough where I think it's a draw.

Also note that hemo will now be affected by it's own debuff. This will mitigate the damage reduction somewhat even if you don't go further down the sub tree.

This is what happens when 96% of a class population abuses overpowered talents and abilities.

Why do you think mages suck so bad right now? CRY CRY 9k POM PYRO CRY CRY.

Get used to it.

Yeah I'm really not sure what blizz is doing nerfing rogues when you really havent even heard any bitching ABOUT rogues...yet I do EotS last night and out of 8 matches 5 of them had 9 to 10 MS warriors...no exaggeration. It was an evening of charge charge charge WW Ww WW.

I don't know if I'd call it "abusing overpowered talents". It was more like "holy shit! I can spec something OTHER than combat now? They said they changed it because all the rogues went hemo, thus proving it was overpowered....Yet they don't remember that prior to that pretty much every damn rogue out there was combat spec BECAUSE sub spec sucked sideways and mutilate was rendered near useless with resilience. They made a previously useless talent tree viable and were surprised rogues used it? Meh.

You can generally pick out the overpowered class just by checking who is in a bg hehe...10 ms warriors in one EotS? How about the ridiculous number of hunters now that they've been buffed all to hell yet again?

I agree and it is sucky that it happens like this. Blizzard tends to go the wrong way with things the first few trys, nerfing things too much trying to find a balance. Wait 6 months to a year and they may partially retract it.

I agree about MS warriors and Hunters (hell I'm playing my hunter exclusively now instead of my mage except for raids).

The main thing about this is though, what I was trying to say was, you got thrown an overpowered bone and had your hayday. Blizzard says, "WHAT? ROGUES DOING DAMAGE? KILLING IN ARENAS? WTFOMGBBQ?!?!"

I doubt it'll be retracted. lolstep might be fun for BG PvP, but it's gonna suck huge balls for arena. It's like a really bad version of intercept, except it can jump terrain at least. AR/Prep wasn't overpowered in the least. A geared S2-S3 druid could outlive 2x AR with ease, and then some, thanks to natural perfection. Non-undead rogues will lose to new disc priests. Blizzard also shut down 4 dps teams with Pain Suppression change, the only 5v5 matrix a rogue was good at.

1v1, this is the only patch in history where rogue came out on top vs ice mage, assuming there's nothing I can LoS abuse with. Next patch that's getting shut down with trainable ice block/icy veins.

Yeah I can't BELIEVE they are giving mages free ice block.