You're way too emotional, boss. Nobody is stupid enough to think that having 11 points in Destruction is even remotely a "Destruction build." Me saying, "when you reach 70 and put more points in the build" is the same shit as "going deep into the Destruction Tree". I guess since you suddenly take everything that is said (typed!) so literally, I should have clarified exactly what I meant. I apologize for my "helpfulness" at trying to rephrase what you said being incorrect. Good lord, it never ends, does it?

I could maybe, maybe buy the idea of what I said was only 99% clear rather than 100%, but the fact that you would've read:

...before your second response to me, did in fact make things crystal clear.


I'd be impressed if you could find one instance amongst the thousands of WoW forums, of someone having used the term 'high end destruction' in reference to the amount of points in their build, 'deep destruction' maybe but not 'high end'.

And just for kicks, let's ignore all of that and suppose for a second I did mean high end destruction in terms of majority points invested.


Now if that's what I actually responded with, it would've implied that Givin, when he said destruction spec, meant a destruction spec with less than the majority of points spent in the tree.

Now does that make sense? I didn't think so either.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Tarot, stop scrambling. Much as it pains me to admit, Kuwen/Neesha are right. You're just digging yourself a hole.

Maybe you should call in an outside expert to finish arguing your case. Worked for you in the past. We could call him... DoctorX!

or u guys could stop picking on tarot over a moot point.

wow i hope we kill this guy today, third week in kara and have only killed this guy during the first week.

here is the link to our destruction lock http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Apolydas

here is the link to our affliction locks
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... ane&n=Psim

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... lane&n=Nul

(me) http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... ne&n=Xinge

I think how well the lock does also goes along way with thier playstyle. On our raids our dps is normaly 3 affliction locks at numbers 1, 2, and 3. And normaly the Destruction lock fighting with the Rogue for 4th. On trash he keeps up a bit with us but for boss fights we get up by 60-70k or so. I will try to get a screen shot tonight on our gruul/tk run if hes there. Hes been missing alot of runs as of late so we will see.

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You crack me up, I know you don't intend to...but you do.

As far as the rest, I was explaining where I was coming from, unfortunately that doesn't seem to matter to some...which is fine. I don't really care if you agree with me, as much as I care you understand what I've said. You do, and you disagree. One more point though, as far as 'Giving posted this later here'...I don't always read every single thing, sometimes I skim for the jist. I'm sure you do too. And I didn't refer to that comment, I refered to one made earlier. However even your post just there? I skimmed it. I'm not saying that to be an asshole, just that I saw it was more of the same and so didn't bother to really read it other than you saying 'but givin said something else later which clarified it'. Maybe it did, but I didn't notice it, I didn't really read your post after that. Because my skim over told me you're simply enamored with your position, because it's really a he said/she said. I've covered what I meant, you think I'm a liar...it pretty much goes nowhere beyond that on an issue neither of us really care about.

Or so I'm assuming, because I really don't think you care that much about this issue. I know I don't.

As far as Neesha's posturing, well it's a long standing issue with him which has nothing to do with this thread. But he and I both know that.

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Believe it or not, my "posturing" had everything to do with this thread. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Tarot, Solanthious, or Yeno who made the original "hahaha no!" post you made, my opinion (and response(s)) would have been the same. To paraphrase you, given my reputation, you should know that by now. Sorry to disappoint, Literal Lucy.

I'm curious.

I'm obviously playing a lock these days, but I've been affliction from day one. One thing that I do notice is that in general, shit BEFORE the boss mobs dies so quickly that I don't get the full bonus of my spec to a degree. On the boss mobs, though, I shoot right up there.

Are the charts being thrown around about destruction taking into account the clear to the boss as well as the boss? Or are they just single charts?

Not stirring the pot, I'm genuinely curious. Because pre-boss mobs (just from my own experience) should definitely help out the numbers on a mage-lock vs. a dot-lock.

Not that it matters, I don't think. Trash or Boss, it all has to die. I just would have a hard time giving up affliction. I have a mage for when I want to make things go boom quickly.


Also: Kuervoh, glad to hear our mage's advice helped you guys. Hope to hear you dropped him soon!

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Destruction is definately better than affliction when you have multiple high crit locks keeping up improved shadowbolt. In that situation, the synergy from ruin, imp. shadowbolt and +8% crit from the tree can't be beat by Unstable Affliction, which is the only thing affliction has going for it damage-wise. UA is great and you can still do excellent dps with it, but Destro has a simple mathematical advantage once you reach a certain gear level.

Affliction will always have better utility, but once +damage starts to plateau there is no secondary stat you can use to augment your dot damage. Crit% allows you to do that with shadowbolt and there is the great improved shadowbolt talent that only gets better with the more locks you have keeping it active. Having access to a cheaper version of Shadow Mastery via Demonic Sacrifice also helps a good deal.

The tree has a lot more than UA, and imp. sbolt helps affliction locks too.

Sarissa Candyangel

Put just 40 into demon for the 5% to crit at the end and the xtra 230 spell damage and only put up to ruin in destruction and you have a deceant SB spam build. Until i can find a lock who can show me that going full destruction can beat out my affliction build im going to stay affliction.

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If you click on some of those WWS links posted, you'll see that they are broken down into boss fights, so you can see how you did on that fight alone (including failed attempts). It shows the total damage as well (assuming they had the log on the whole time). I doubt it is 100% accurate, but it's still a pretty handy tool.

I'm hearing end-game arguments, aff vs destro. My concerns up until 'end-game,' which I'm pretty far away from, is quick leveling, PvP when it is called for, then PvP as the primary pastime. My initial plan, knowing very little about what each tree did, or what playstyle each would benefit, was to go demon and play around with felguard. Then, I planned to switch to whatever build would benefit the face-melting extravaganza that followed. As I am leveling, I am finding out that I run into more and more enemy territory or places that the enemy is questing. What makes it worse, is that as I move into higher level areas, the enemy is getting higher level as well. If I run into a single enemy that is 3 levels above me or lower, I can determine where the fight will go in the 10 seconds that they are running around feared. If I can't land anything on them, I usually just try to run toward where I know the spirit healer is to make the run shorter, lol... My question for all of the locks in this thread is, if you played on a PvP server and never raided, or were concerned about purely dishing out long-term dps in a raid instance, what build would you go with, knowing what each ability in each tree is good for?

Either Affliction/Destro (up to shadowburn) or Demo/Affliction would be ideal. Affliction levels much much faster, but Demo is more PvP survivable until you get geared.

Sarissa Candyangel

Terestian down with no deaths!

Congrats. Too bad the loot makes it almost worth skipping him (although your Feral Druids may be angered if you do).

mages probably wouldn't be too happy either

Bah, trinkets are a dime a dozen.

Feral Druids should have the honor for Gladiator's Maul when T1 arena goes on the honor system.

Ranged weapon isn't too too bad.

Plus, he's 2 more badges. 22 badges in 3 hours is great.

Yeah. Girdle of the Prowler actually dropped which I won and wore until WoWJutsu picked it up. My ranged DPS, AP and Crit all dropped with it so once our rating went up I went back to my Felstalker belt.