Let me preface this by saying I know next to nothing about the shaman class which is why I'm asking about this here.

My guild is finally starting Kara and we took down Attumen last night. One of this drops were the Stalker's War Bands. There was one other hunter and a shaman in the raid. The other hunter passed on the bracers but as I was deciding on whether I needed them or not, the shaman called need on them. Now he's enhancement spec and since I know nothing about shamans I don't know if it would be a good upgrade or not. I'm not sure what he had previously but I always thought these would be better suited for a Hunter. Attumen also drops Whirlwind Bracers which looks to me better suited for a shaman.

Looking at Shaman raid sets, I didn't notice any that had attack power on it so it doesn't seem like AP is a vital stat for shamans. I always assumed that if a mail piece had AP, it was for hunters and if it spell/healing bonuses or spell crit, it was for Shamans.

Even though I lost on the roll, I didn't make a big fuss because the war bands were a slight upgrade from what I had now but I want to nip this in the bud before it becomes a standard during raids. This shaman rolled against two hunters for the Beast Lord Pauldrons because it was mail and an upgrade from what he had and won in a PUG the other day.

I briefly spoke to our GM/Raid Leader about it and he said he thought it was more of a generic bracer but would be more careful the next time around. I was planning to bring it up today with the officers later today because some sort of loot rules need to be in place.

The needs of an Enhancement Shaman are very similar to that of a Fury Warrior; strength, AP, crit, hit, agility are all highly desired (somewhat in that order) whereas intellect, spell damage all spell crit are all poor uses of their item budget.

Enhance Shamans get shafted somewhat in that there's vastly more Hunter oriented mail pieces than Enhance Shaman oriented pieces (granted there's way more Hunters than Enhance Shaman) but that's not to say that the majority of the statistics don't overlap and ultimately, you have to take what you get.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I'll begin by saying that I played an Enhancement shaman in a raid setting in early BC, but I no longer raid or play that character as my main. As mentioned earlier, shaman look for alot of the same stats as a DPS warrior. Unfortunately, there aren't alot of Enhancement specific drops (ie. that have str instead of ap, etc). Really, this is a good thing overall. Although I wished I had some items designed for me when I was raiding, once I got that drop it would rot from then on. At least with the "hunter designed" items, at least one other person in the raid besides myself would actually want them.

When I was playing my shaman, the tier armor that you mentioned was not itemized very well for Enhancement shaman. I passed over on tier 4 drops because I knew I could make a much better set from individual parts. The tier sets may be better now, though. I haven't really kept up to date with shaman changes. My shaman uses those War Bands that you linked as well. Also, they drop from the first boss in the instance, which you will kill dozens of times. I imagine they will drop again.

Dragon Leatherworking, Hammersmith , victory.

I think he should get it just for the novelty of someone taking loot from a hunter, for once.

Argrax has it right. Have that Shaman look at the Arena PvP. Not only does it have the stats we need, but it looks so much better.

Before I maxxed out leatherworking I thought about taking this bracer if I had the opportunity. In the big picture Attunemen will get farmed weekly so you will get this item anyway. The reality is for max dps Shaman need to max +hit. Im a little short right now myself.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Leythos

thats what my gear looks like except I have the Gruul haste trinket as well as the abaccus of violent odds which I switch in and out since im still trying to figure out which maxxes my dps. (for the crop)

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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer.

As has been said, this drop has enhancement shaman stats. It doesn't really matter though, the felstalker bracers are almost as good and can just get them on the AH. If he was also a LW to get the felstalker bonus, it is a downgrade from what he already would have.

Wow. What a whiner.

You're going to always be rolling against an enhancement shaman for the gear if you play a hunter. Deal with it. And a guild or guildmate that tells an enhancement shaman that they shouldn't be rolling on things like the beastmaw pauldrons or those bracers as an upgrade is dumb.

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Hunter gear is so easy to plan around other mail wearing classes it isn't funny. I only conflicted with them on one piece, "aran helm" and even then I could have cared less if I had won or lost.

There is a definate near perfection loot plan up untill tier 5. Just grab a ranged weapon from Kara and don't look back. Grab some Tier 4 that rots if you want. Hunters are the only class on the list that could make any benifit out of it anyway, even tho it's kind of shit for a beast hunter.

I agree with Givin. There isn't much you need to compete with an enhancement shaman over, at all. They have added gear that doesn't need to conflict with yours, if they are smart and say "Fuck the dungeon sets because desolation is shit for the effort it takes."

There are some pieces in kara that you'll compete over, but not many. Chess boots, and Attumen Bracers are the only two I can think of, and if the shaman is LW or you are, you won't even compete over the bracers.

As far as the Aran helm, I will say it from a Hunter's Perspective for you Givin on that helm. Fuck it. Fuck it right in the god damn ear. That helm is a piece of shit for a Hunter when compared to a properly socketed Stalker's Helm of Second Sight., the T4 helm. There should be no reason for a hunter to roll on that helm over you at all.

You should not have to compete with a shaman for more than maybe 3 pieces of gear. You just happened to get one to drop that was one of those three pieces. Quit whining about it.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

As I said in my original post I know nothing about enhancement shamans. After reading this thread (prior to Rugen's post) and reading more about enhancement shamans, the Attumen bracers were actually a decent upgrade. The reason I wanted to get this out of the way was because this particular shaman wants to roll on EVERYTHING. Again, he's enhancement and yet wanted to roll on the Gloves of Centering from MoV even though we had a resto shammy in the group. He doesn't even wear the Beast Lord Pauldrons he rolled against 2 hunters for. My point is that if he's going to roll on something it damn better well be an upgrade for how he's spec'd. Items should be for an immediate upgrade rather than going to your healing/tanking/dps/whatever set.

After learning more about enhancement shamans, I have a little better understanding on what he should roll for.

Again, I didn't know anything about enhancement shamans. If the Gloves of Quickening from MoV or the Beasmaw Pauldrons from Opera had dropped last night, I wouldn't have even rolled on them since there's only 4 drops from Kara that I see as a necessary upgrade (Fiend Slayer Boots since I still have green boots, Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle, Legacy and the bow from Prince).

Anyway, thanks to Rugen and Uluth Gak for the semi-flames. I feel so special now.

It sounds like with his rolling habits, he should have played a Hunter.

By the way, the worst when it comes to rolling on everything under the sun (in my experience) are Paladins.

"I can use that for my DPS set"
"I can use that for my healing set"
"I can use that for my tanking gear"
"I can use that when I farm"
"I wish we could use daggers"

Hey, I take offense to that......as I stroke my Blackout Truncheon....

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All hybrids should have a healing set but never at the expense of a primary healer, that's just being greedy.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I disagree. As long as they are spec'd to be healers (Holy Pally, for instance), they should be able to roll against Priests for healing rings, etc. It just gets old that when an item drops, I can always count on a few Pallies explaining how they could use the item (if nobody wants it, of course!) "for this one particular situation that might happen one day". It's just very loot-whorish when I look at it, even if they are being genuine.

Yeah, when I used the word Hybrid, I'm meaning Elemental, Feral, Protection, etc. and think of Restoration/Holy as the default build.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I don't really like it when our Shadow Priest(s) take items before our Mages/Warlocks get em, so I guess I agree.

(Although I have changed my opinion of Shadow Priests from what it used to be, since I know they are a good source of mana regen/free heals/damage. I still think Ret Pallies are worthless, 3% crit bonus or not...)

I honestly didn't care if I won or lost on the helm. I had the stalkers helm with two 16ap gems and a 20 and the shaman was pretty terrible. He didn't know what spec he wanted to be. He won the prince dagger a week prior, and gorehowl/decapitator the week after. For that matter, we never had any enhance shaman that could compete with my DPS so it really wasn't an issue or even something I thought about.

I use 4 piece beast lords set bonus anyway. Tier 1 warrior helm looks pretty dope on a draenei tho.

PS.

Ret paladins are useless. 3% crit? I can replace you with a trinket swap.

Ret. Paladins have potential but they're not quite there yet, not totally useless though. Their practicality depends much on your raid composition (can you group them in with a Shaman for WF) and whether or not you have 2 or fewer Paladins in the raid.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Yeah. There really isn't all that much out of Kara for a hunter once you look it over.

I took the T4 crap because, well, I liked the 2 piece set bonus, and the stats were good enough to let me go back survival.

Other than that, though, there is Stalker's War Bands, Fiend Slayer Boots, Garona's Signet Ring (Survival only for the most part), Worgen Claw neck, Ring of a Thousand Marks (If not survival), Steelhawk Crossbow, Legacy, Wolfslayer's Sniper Rifle, and Sunfury.

That's a small list comparatively when you factor in the stuff for warriors, druids, rogues, etc.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

Don't forget the Drape of the Dark Reavers.

ps: People spec Survival?

My son's Pally is spec Ret atm and it's fun to play. He doesn't raid at all, pretty much only has time to solo and pvp so I can't comment on raids. But he puts out some good damage when I compare it to what I put out on my shadow priest with 1226 shadow damage. But they need high crit to keep vengance stacks up and the more AP the better.

Had a shaman beat me on a roll for that cloak, made me so sad.

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Our regular Hunter is actually survival and seems to work fine, he has a retardedly high crit rate and though I've not done the math, I'm reasonably confident the benefits of expose armor is on par with the additional damage Beast Mastery affords you.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

My Night Elf is Survival. I bring in an exta 450 dps myself to the raid, and my Expose Weakness adds another 300 dps to the raid.

That's 750 dps that I'm contributing between myself and buffs.

Yes, survival is viable. Just because I don' do 600 damage doesn't mean I'm not increasing the physical dps by a metric fuckton. Granted, I have over 1K agility raid buffed, and the group started giving me a shaman for GoA because of EW alone.

That's for a 25 man.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

How does that compare to marks? We didn't have any good hunters when I raided. I've seen some parses with marks hunters doing 1300-1400 DPS though. That's higher than warlocks.

Edit: Just noticed looking at this parse a ret paladin is right below him. He's decked out though, archimonde sword, all the melee DPS plate drops from Hyjal/BT.

I dunno. This was only on Gruul mind you. It wasn;'t on any fights where your dps gets huge boosts or anything.

I did 760 dps between both my buffs and me, and I think the marks hunter, alone, only did around 600.

I know there are fights though where you go apeshit, and get buffs, etc. He and I didn't have anything special, however. We didn't get a feral druid. Only GoA, and we didn't have a Shadow priest.

This, after the fact, pissed both of uss off since only one rogue was even in the top 5, and the rest of the melee dps slacked, despite having the other enhancement shammy, and a feral druid.

Fucking lazy bastards.

I think that's normal DPS for T6 content. I dunno whereabouts is considered good for hunters at Gruul. I know your rogues are pretty awful though. They should at least be breaking 1k DPS on Gruul, I've seen parses up to 1600's, but they probably had T5 gear on.

Show me a parse of a Rogue doing 1600 DPS on Gruul please (other than a Rogue named Furi).

edit: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=gc ... 3&s=31-231

If i dropped below 1k dps on Gruul I started bitching.

700 dps was the cool kids club pre TBC. 1k should be easy to reach and maintain for any dps class.

Lars he's right in your same parse! That's dated July 15th as well, before they had warglaives. So I assume T5 gear.

I agree with all of you that the rogues and melee were terrible.

I'm not arguing this, and it's why I was getting pissed. My build isn't too horrible, and my gear could get better if I'd do say, Kazzak, etc. They won't, though.

Hell, we have a hard enough time getting them to show for even Gruul. it's why quite a few of us are looking into new options. *shrugs*

The buffs from me alone would make me ok with another raid group. I could hold my own. Oh, and that dps calc didn't add my pet in either I don't think. So, I was probably doing around 800-900 dps overall.

Just really irritating at the slacking we have going on, and you can tell it on Gruul. Really bad.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

People being slack asses in WoW and doing shitty dps? NO NEVER!

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Marauder Harabakc Goat

Oh, no, it's been that way for a while with this guild. We actually aren't all one guild. We are three guilds that have a raiding alliance.

Now, I know what the connotation to that is, but, we all might as well be one guild. We have interguild groups frequently, most of us are in tells with others quite a lot, etc. This doesn't bug me. it's just the 3 guilds all wanted to keep it a much smaller, more family like atmosphere in guild chat, etc, than form one giant guild.

The problem is, one of these guilds is no longer pulling its weight. Realistically, it was back before AQ40, that 20 good players could carry 20 bad ones. Back then there were only two guilds, us, and the one that's no longer pulling its weight. That guild, back before BC, had a lot of members leave, and ask to join our guild because even then that guild was essentially only bringing 5 good players to the table, and we were bringing the other 15 to 20.

So, after BC, that guild crumbled mostly, and I think the only reason the leaders of the other two guilds keep them around is because of some old school blind loyalty. I'm no officer, so, I can't really tell you why. I just know that their former members, the newer members of my guild, and the members of the new 3rd guild in this alliance are getting fed up with them.

It's just sad at how bad people are used to slacking still from old 40 man content. For some reason, they won't adapt.

This has led a few of us to consider our options of leaving. *shrugs* The only thing that's keeping me there right now is some good friends. That and I am one of 3 hunters that shows up to raids, period, and one of two that doesn't suck. I'm not the best hunter ever by any means, but, I'm not bad. If they lose me, they'd have Revion, and I'm not so sure I want to do that to Rev.

Edit: Forgot. Those few of us are even considering completely switching it up and changing our mains to our Horde alts. It helps that mine is already 70, 375 Leatherworking, and working on gathering the crap for his Boots of the Crimson Hawk and Ebon Netherscale set. My alt is by far the furthest alog of us though.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

If your shadow priests are not posting equal or just under your mages on straight DPS mobs something is wrong.

If you have 1226 spell damage as a shadow priest and you can't out damage a Ret paladin, you're doing it wrong.

A) We have no shadow priest.

B) We have no ret paladins.

That could be why you're not seeing me talk about them.

Our dpshas improved greatly though. 11 growths at 34% last night, untiil somehow a healer slipped up somewhere and the tank went down.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.

A shadow priest is a good thing to have, a ret pally? Well I haven't found any good ones so I have never seen any in a raid because I am not sure what they bring. I did a heroic with a ret pally and I out dpsed him as prot. I have even seen a resto druid in cat form out dps a ret pally(Druid went cat form in a Black Morass because I wasn't taking any real damage.)

It is not hard to out-dps someone as a Prot Pally since you are AE tanking and doing damage as mobs beat on you. I am not saying this in defense of Ret Paladins ( I personally hate the class), I am just saying it is stupid to brag about doing damage as a Prot Paladin because it is really not you doing anything other than standing there getting beat on.

Oops, I guess I should have said I am a prot warrior, sorry. My point I guess was I haven't been able to meet a good Ret Pally, there are probably some good ones but none on my server.

Well, yea, that's something to brag about.

On our last Gruul kill, our Ret Pally finished 15th in damage (our MT was 16th in damage). Of course, he is fairly new and his gear is pretty bad, so I am curious to see how much better he gets with some gear upgrades. He did 180k less damage than #1 (a Rogue). One of our Shadow Priests finished 6th in damage:

1 Combat/Swords Rogue 313,513 damage
2 Combat/Swords Rogue 279,014 damage
3 Marks Hunter 256,137 damage
4 Marks Hunter 254,370 damage
5 Arcane Mage 223,362 damage
6 Shadow Priest 218,461 damage
...
15 Ret Pally 137,175 damage

Ret takes a very specific gear set to pull off effieciently but even with that gear set you'd be better off taking any other class for DPS.

The one exception is Mag, I'll have to find the screenshot but there was a post on the EJ forums by a Ret Pally who was #1 (which isn't a huge surprise considering Mag is a demon and with enough mana a pally can spam holy wrath, consecrate, and exorcism).

Still can't wait to see what Ret changes come...but I still don't think it will be much help.

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To clarify, I said we don't have a shadow priest, not that I didn't want one or two in the raid.

Honestly, a properly played shadow priest is a god send for me, or the healers.

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There is no such thing as right or wrong; only pleasure and pain.