Hehe, now maces.....I have zero.

Yeah, you can get the blacksmithing mace, can upgrade it to T2 by yourself with a bit of work. I wouldn't worry about it though. Realistically unless you're already arena geared you're a bit behind the curve anyway. I myself just started gearing up for PvP. Up to 10k hp and 253 resilience. Compared to season 2 geared people in like 400+ stuff.

For PvP the swords will do more damage since it is only affected by resiliance if the extra swing crits, where the claw extra damage is always crit damage. The only time I can see claw passing sword is if you have seal fate also, and even then the extra sword attacks proccing poison and weapon enchants would offset it.

Everything we do is effected by resilience. Sword has that much less overall crit %. That's why they would be even. The downfall of claw is the 1.8 speed rather than 1.5, gimping our Combat Potency.

Hand 2 Hand = Burst DPS "made useless in PvP by resilience"

Daggers = see H2H and multiply by 1,000

Swords = sustained DPS "works well PvP as well as PvE"

Mace = Crowd Control "lowest DPS output, ideal utility PvP"

It has always been like this. resilience just shifted the balance of power from rogues to casters, removing the element of suprise and making sure everyone had enough hitpoints or mitigation to survive a frontload assault that wouold have left shitstains in mooncloth robes a year ago.

When arena gear is upgraded, each piece acts as a weapon for casters, be it increasing their spell damage, or adding more hitpoitns and mitigation to melee through resilience. The change to dots being affected was a long overdue one.

Mushroom is all grown up now.

Druid, Shadow priest, and warlock teams will still dominate the 3x3 bracket don't worry. Also, one hit wonder pm ap pyro mages will still be the "terror" of the 2x2s.

I miss the days of pre BC pvp horseshit.

im only doing 10 matches a week in arena, so im not worried that much about pvp utility. IM looking more for raid damage in pve. Was speaking to Nightriders the other night form your guild Givin, he has the Big bad Wolf's paw MG fist, he was saying that his dps jumped with that combo and hes normaly at the top of your guys meters. Guess i will get a fist offhand and give it a shot, its only goin to be a bit over 1k points, i fi doln tlike the combo i can always go back to my sword spec and save up again for the gladiators quick blade offhander.

Any way you look at it, you'd be better off getting the Merciless Sword offhand. Even if you go Fist Spec, you'll still get the same +crit bonus and have the advantage of a faster offhand (for poison procs and the like). Do you just want the fist for the looks?

Correct.

That is the overlooked bonus of fist spec. You can put any weapon type in your offhand and still benifit from the bonus. Getting 10% crit from talents is no joke, and frees up gear slots to focus on % to hit, stamina or raw attack power.

Using combat potency, 1.5 should be the target speed you take for offhand weapons. The faster that weapon is, the greater the return your mainhand will yeild because you will have more instant/finishing attacks.

http://elitistjerks.com/f33/t10093-rega ... ec_rogues/

That's one place I've seen people saying the bonus doesn't effect off-hand. Either way, you can get MH fist and shiv, the combat potency procs will outweigh not having crit on your offhand. That thread is pretty old regarding sword spec though, so don't worry about that stuff. Probably better off with swords.

That is one place, posted by one guy, with no evidence. I am not saying I have evidence to dispute his, but I think I would have heard about it 1,000 times elsewhere if the offhand didn't get the bonus unless it was also a fist weapon.

There's a pretty extensive theorycrafting/game mechanics community on that forum. I just don't feel compelled to sift through every rogue thread to find where the test results were.

ah i didnt think about that for the offhand, i always figured when you spec one way you should try to get the same offhander for the spec benefit. Thas good ot know about fists. And lol i wasnt goin fists for looks, i picked up the fist from the opera in kara and i had spoken with a few fist rogues and they all said that thier dps had actually went up alot. SO it was the reason i figured id go fist, i was goin to get the season 1 fist due to the 1.5 speed. Now i may just get the season 2 quick blade.

People still play rogues? Most of the rogues I've seen are automatically booted from 5v5 teams the moment they appear on the roster. I mean seriously if you can't viably pvp with them drop the class!

Huh?

Yeah I had a mage last night, in only so so gear Insta POM Pyro me for 4600 something followed by a flurry of some odd thousand. Only happened once so far but it was still a WTF moment lol.

Just happy I hooked up with a 2v2 and 3v3 team. The rogue I'm with is pretty poorly played but together we've taken groups I never thought possible. Shadow/Lock etc.

I'll probably get a sword offhand and a fist or sword mainhand. Sub spec is definitely lacking in dmg and dmg mitigation be it dodge/parrys...etc but I pull off some crazy shit thanks to premed and prep..etc I eat most casters alive now.

Finding Mind numb and wound poison to be a godsend in there.

<- Rogue

It all really depends. Paladin/Warrior groups used to be fairly bad for me and then I found a good healer to run with on my team and all turned out well. As combat swords (17/44, i refuse to respec for pvp and raiding) I have no problem keeping a paladin completely stunlocked or kicked out of casting spells. The only time they really get to heal is during their bubble. If their DPS counter-part goes for me then I know that my shaman healer can keep up with it, and if they go after the shaman he can pretty much solo them while I keep the paladin locked down. Sometimes its different for different combos but really paladins aren't too much of an issue in 2v2 on BG9. Our rating isn't the highest, only at about 1850 now but I think it's enough to get a feel for at least somewhat decently geared teams.

The worst teams that we come up against are probably dual WE frost mages or Druid/Rogue. Both decent combos in 2v2.

I don't have any input on 3v3 or 5v5 because not even my roommate will take a rogue on his team

This is my spec when I do re-spec for PvP.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?2053001000000000000003021052020050150000000005022231002301210000000

_________________
Yep.

I have many characters, but my two favorites have been rogues. I know way too many names of the posters in this list to say hi to everyone one.. so hello to all of you.

Warlocks still my all time fav.

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"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala

I've been enjoying Shadow priest post 60 too.

Howdy, Intin. Hope all is well.

It's going ok. Trying to get back into raiding again, but finding no fun guilds around anymore .

Vita is fun. Come to Uther. /nod.

Zatronn! What's up man. Need a rogue? :p

OUr last 2 Rogue recruits both put "70 Rouge" on their applications. You tell me.

Shame you arn't horde.

We have a kid in guild that named his char "Rougewolf".

Did he have pretty red cheeks?

Rofl. You know the funny bit is that I went to Uther and had a character. It was named Neeshanecro. Apparently I harassed you shortly after WoW launch based on the chars creation date.

I probably thought you were Kamukuk and ignored you. He did that alot.

Now there's a name I haven't thought of for a while. I miss being trained during raids.
I'm gonna have to come talk to you on there though. I really need a good group of people again.