Any good site for help in figuring out what class/race to play? The wow site is limited. My friend who got me WOW wants me to go to the Spirestone server, Horde side. It is PVP.

Any good starting guides online?

Thanks.

-Worthy.

Unless you REALLY like PVP, I would suggest switching to a PVE server :p

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Check GameFAQs.com's WoW page for semi-decent guides to every class. Also, Alla's isnt half bad, and messing around with the talent calculator on the main WoW page can be helpful. But yes, PVP as a new player will be hell. A lot of it.

If you enjoy PvP, definately stay on a PvP server. You can't change later on, and once you get past the learning curve you'll be glad you did. You can get to level 24 or so in the Barrens without ever even entering a PvP enabled zone, and that will give you some time to get your feet wet.

If you don't really like the rush of world pvp, then I'd agree to go to a PvE server. No sense in dealing with the ganking if there is no positives in it for you.

For game info, I still use thottbot, and it gets the job done for me 99% of the time. Have fun!

http://www.thottbot.com

Race = play one you can stand to stare at for hours. There's not really a 'best' race, just perks depending on your class (and usually only pvp oriented). Any of those can be substituted for skill, and in pvp 90% of the server lacks it.

Can't give advice on class unless you know roughly what you want to play. Healer? Melee? Caster?

Sarissa Candyangel

People love to make leveling on a PvP server out to be much worse than it actually is.

The bottom line is that a PvP server offers everything a PvE server does and then some. If you do get to a certain point and find you absolutely hate it, you can transfer off to a PvE server; if however you level on a PvE server and find you really enjoy PvP, well too bad so sad, you're stuck with the carebears.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Eh, I started out on a PVP server (Agammagan), and made it to 60 just fine, but it is rediculously enfuriating to be ganked over and over again at the same spot by the same rogue 15 levels above you. After leveling to 60, I moved on to a RPPVP server, which still has the same problem, but on a much lesser scale, or atleast my experience with it has been better. There is still PVP, but more of the players actually respect common decency and PVP with some shred of honor. Not ganking people of a much lower level.
Ultimately, a PVP server will prolong the longevity of the game for you. There is not much exciting in the game besides the thrill of walking around, glancing over your shoulder, always on the watch for someone about to jump you while you try to grind out a quest.

I can PVP with the best of em, but some of us prefer not having to deal with the Johnny Douchebags of the world who have nothing better to do than to grief. From what I hear, there's a sort of truce going on on PVP servers in places like Hellfire but how long will that last? PVP servers definitely have their appeal, I just think someone like Worthy or someone brand new to the game would be better off on a PVE server, at this stage in the game's life. If you plan on always playing with your buddy, however, you should be fine on the PVP server. I'll assume you'll be playing a Priest on the Horde side?

PvE servers are for pussies, you pussies.

Yeah, because getting level 60 takes all of a week or two, if you want it and know the game. I just hate being stuck like that.

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I don't like PVP at all. So, I play PVE. It just depends on what you like. If you occasionally wanna PVP, then a PVE server is just fine. BG's will give you all the PVP there is. There is no real "World PVP" anymore besides being ganked over and over.

Was this thread re-posted from about a year ago, or do I have precognitive abilities that I'm now just discovering.

Anyone know how to precog lotto numbers?

Some links to check out:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Main_Page

http://wow.allakhazam.com/

http://www.ampwow.com/

http://www.wowhead.com/

http://www.thottbot.com/

http://www.goblinworkshop.com/

http://www.wowinsider.com/ (news site)

Really, just send him links on playing a Blood Elf Pali, since that is what the eventual char/class will be...

/sarcasm

Sit outside a zone for 3 hours forming a raid to kill a raid mob that spawns once an hour, then cry and give up when a raid runs by you and kills him, even though it will repop by the time your raid gets there.

That's advanced World of Warcraft Gameplay stuff man, don't confuse him yet.

Playing a Blood Elf Priest named WorthyIam.

Haha nice! Welcome to Wow!

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala

Stay on the PVP server unless you really don't like PVP. It will be something interesting to do when you're done with Blizzard's ezmode content.

Since you're brand new to WoW, you'll find a lot of interesting things to do at first. If you're an efficient, smart player you'll breeze through content(even at a relaxing pace, reading storylines and all) and won't even realize what hit you when you run out of things to do. Still, at a casual pace, you'll find a few months worth of entertainment there(including expansion content).

If you're looking to be a hardcore endgamer with a significant advantage above the masses because you work harder at something, don't apply here, look elsewhere(dunno how Vanguard is in this respect). There's a massive wall of expoential softcap at max level with endgame gear/progression to prevent casuals from crying.

I trust then that you and your guild cleared Naxxramas before the expansion?

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I highly doubt it. I'd guess that he is going to try VG when it comes out, so now WoW must obviously suck and be boring all of a sudden.

Yeah!!! F WoW!

RL is the new WoW. Your neighbors are ORCS. Take your nearest axe, hammer, mallet, or claymore and chop them to bits while telling them how horde sucks.

Venen, you can play WoW hardcore for a long long time and not run out of things to do. Granted, some of that isn't fun (hi, faction farming!), but it is still a true statement.

I will repeat an earlier poster's comment: if you are making this sweeping claim about WoW, I assume your guild had Naxx on farm before the expansion came out, right? If not, there was still more for you to do.

Lets not forget that he's explaining how to handle being hardcore to someone who was trying to lead open raids for Skyshrine armor not too long before GoD came out.

lol

haha

farkc.om

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Nah, we got to C'Thun but didn't kill before the expansion came out. The majority of their content updating has clearly been focused on raids. But after you get past the initial challenge of the encounter there's not actually a ton of content there. I'm all for raiding, love it, but there should be more to do besides raiding. We had to wait until the expansion after Dire Maul just to get more 5-man instancing.

In short, to suggest "you didn't do this 0.5 percent of the overall content in the game" is disingenuous. I remember a guy posting on the WoW forums that you hadn't experienced the game's content until you've leveled all classes to 60/70 - ok, that's true in a sense, but at some point you can say there's still not enough genuine content there.

I'd say Fribur's idea has sort of a false premise. It's not just that some of the endgame farming-type content is boring, it's that there's genuinely no content to speak of. Blizzard's implementation of stopgaps to prevent you from gaining something quickly does not count as content at a certain point. You cannot suddenly increase the number of mobs you need to kill for faction and then claim that's additional content just because it takes longer.

I guess I'm not getting the Skyshrine joke, I was fairly geared(not top of the line, granted) out on Bumzab when GoD came out. Never claimed to be hardcore anyway, I'm just saying there's not much for them to do as I've witnessed(friends, guild members, acquaintances, etc). And if I'm not hardcore and running out of things to do within a month after WoW's original release, that says something.

I'll definitely be trying out VG, but I've been saying pretty much the same thing about WoW on these boards for some time. This is hardly sudden =)

I probably won't be buying VG right away, I am still enjoying Burning Crusade's content right now but that doesn't go against what I said. The enjoyment will probably have about the lifespan of WoW's original release if not a bit less.

lol, he's talking about Worthy and his HoT raids

Woops! Yea I need to l2read.

I thought I remembered Worthy saying that he spent a lot of time playing at one point but I'm not sure if it was EQ. Regardless, if you ever have even a chance at reaching that edge of the content which may or may not be considered hardcore, it's something worth considering IMO.

I have no clue how Vanguard is, I've heard good and bad, so I can't really make a recommendation on which MMORPG would be better out there. WoW was created to appeal to the masses, and it is, essentially(and understandably) MMORPG Lite. There are far more casuals than hardcores - Blizzard is not stupid, and designed accordingly.

And in the process, made the entire 1 to 60 leveling experience, both casual and raider obsolete and useless.

Fortunatly for me, I don't care because the end is all that matters.

Nod. But, the entire Diablo, Starcraft playerbase from Battle.net LOVES the 1-59 experience.

So you complain about a lack of content even though you never completed a significant portion of it? How does that make sense?

The end content in WoW is far more abundant, better designed and better executed than anything seen in Everquest. Trying to say its a 'Lite' MMORPG only serves to make yourself look silly.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Even assumign that Naxxramas is this huge pile of content you claim it to be, if you put 50 raids into a game and you leave 2 5-man zones and 1 solo zone, guess what? You're lacking in content. There's a difference between lacking in overall physical content, and lacking in content in a number of different areas.

But even with that being said, noting the number of encounters within Naxxramas it would still make up what - 0.5-1 percent at BEST of the game's overall content.

Now maybe that's a significant portion in your eyes, but I think after having seen MOST of the content(and I would say most of the raid content as well, because while Naxx was definitely the biggest raid dungeon at that point, it probably would not add up to MC/BWL/AQ40 combined) it is actually you that looks silly suggesting that I am ineligible to complain because I haven't seen 0.5-1 percent of the content.

Oh, and as far as EverQuest is concerned, WoW is *overall* a better game, nevertheless there are various shortcomings especially in regard to replayability(anti-twinking due to whiners, all raid items BOP, no reason to go back to old dungeons, etc) and endgame content(minus raids). By today's standards - given the hindsight developers now have with various MMORPG's such as EQ - it is definitely MMORPG Lite. Don't tell me you're going to suggest that Blizzard did not design a sharp curve for powergamers to meet up with so that casuals do not fall too far behind.

i guess my biggest question about wowarcraft is-

are you going to be playing it 5-7 years down the road, like many did with everquest (and still are, to this day)?

lanys opened up what, feb 2000? people left for wowarcraft around nov 2004. which means for about 4 2/3 years... everquest was your primary mmorpg mainstay game.

will you be playing wowarcraft in aug 2009? that tis the question...

-cc

After seeing how well the expansion is put together, yes; I could see myself staying with WoW till 2009.

It's already been 2+ years since WoW came out, and many of us have been playing since release. I took a break for a few months just like I did with Everquest, but just like Everquest I keep getting drawn back in.

Me personally, hard to say what I'll be playing then. Depends on a number of factors, such as how various new MMORPG releases pan out(VG, AoC, etc).

Will many, many people still be playing it? Absolutely. Unless a really major MMORPG hit comes out in the next couple years, WoW will continue to retain a massive portion of MMORPG gamers. I'm convinced even if they left it at this expansion(which they won't) for 2 years they'd keep a huge load of players. It is designed to appeal to as many people as possible, which usually entails a few sacrifices.

Bottom line though to answer your question is that WoW is not going anywhere. It's mainstream gaming now.

I can't believe Venen is going to bash end-game raiding/content in World of Warcraft when I seriously doubt he has even seen a hint of it in Vanguard. I'd say Molten Core, BWL, AQ40, Naxx, Onyxia, the 4 world dragons, ZG20, and AQ20 left plenty to do in the game for the majority of the raiding guilds on the server. I don't even know of any of the "uberguild" that totally stopped going to BWL/AQ40 while doing Nax (although I am sure a few did).

I will agree that the 5-man content was lacking, but that is certainly not the case now. Had you told someone what you told Worthy a year ago, it would have had some merit. Now, however, to say "if you're harcore, you're screwed" is pretty stupid. There is PLENTY to do for the hardcore player now. Plenty of instances, tons of rep to be had, loads of quests, etc. I'd be willing to bet that I've seen more content from the expansion than most of the "hardcore" people that raced to 70 after it came out (I am level 68, by the way).

As for Cicely's question about if we'll be playing it in 5-7 years. The answer is 'who cares?' It's the best game out there right now, period. So either play it, and see what all the hype's about, or don't. You've asked 1,00,000 questions about the game and demanded 1,000,000 reasons why you should play it. Either shit or get off the pot.

I for one hope he doesn't. Because we shouldn't have to endure another five billion "hey guys im picking world of warcraft up again" "hey guys, im quitting world of warcraft for the twelveteenth time" "hey guys im going to try world of warcraft for a few hours before I quit for the eightthousandfivehundredandseventysixth time" posts. I know i'm tired of them.

Guys the game and expansion is $60. That's a lot of money to put down for a video game I might not be playing in 2018.

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What's playing Vanguard have to do with it? No, I haven't played it yet so I haven't seen the endgame content. I'll say it again in case you missed it - WoW is MMORPG Lite because, given the hindsight developers had when making and updating the game knowing all of the pitfalls, they designed a game which appeals to casuals at the expense of hardcores - and is/has been lacking in content in a number of areas.

You can do it by making comparisons to other MMORPG's, or by simply looking at what they had to work with what they did with it.

As far as instances go, the Hellfire and Zangarmarsh instances are not going be used that much. Shadow Labyrinth is the first real instance where you start to see some upgrades for people who already had some good gear going into the expansion. So that zone will be used frequently, and all of those above it. A number of these instances are, of course, somewhat rehashes of instances in the same area(this much is obvious). Auchenai Crypts and Sethlakk Halls come to mind.

Another point of note about the expansion is that the Arena System was pushed back a full month after release. That's just utter bullshit when it was announced to be a feature of the expansion on release. Hardcore players were level 70 within about 4 days, semi-casuals are or will be 2-3 weeks after release.

Things that could have been implemented in WoW that never were to give level 60/70 players *something* to do besides upgrading 14 slots over and over - player housing, alternate advancement points, more enjoyable/beneficial tradeskilling(this is better now in the expansion at least), making all items BOE to give MUCH more incentive for people to 5-man/raid older soon-to-be completely unused zones, somewhat unique features like diplomacy in Vanguard, hero classes(maybe combinable classes like FFXI) or even just increasing the number of classes with unique and niche roles. Progression right now is just a straight line from point A to point B.

Also as far as raid instances go - yup there were quite a few of them - right before the expansion was released. Those instances were released over the period of 2 years, and many people were complaining that there just wasn't any raid content back when MC was the only real raid zone. BWL probably should have been ready to go on or near original release if they wanted to claim that raid content was good to go.

20-mans were pretty much negligible... the only reason people really ran ZG was for the enchant and everything else got disenchanted after about 4 raids of it. Even the rep rewards sucked. Almost all of ZG/AQ20 loot was easily replaced by BWL loot and beyond. MC was done by many guilds a year before BC release, but I'll agree BWL/AQ40 were run by most guilds still. Many major guilds stopped doing Onyxia as well(same with Azuregos and Kazzak). So that leaves the 4 dragons, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx as real viable content. That suffices, for a time. Running BWL 50 times to get someone their last piece was just a tad annoying, however. For me, BWL was becoming a chore, and AQ40 was getting there.

And that's just the raid content. It's the least lacking aspect of the game because they focused so much attention on it. Raids are, indeed, what keep me coming back to WoW. They are still enjoyable, and I love tanking big bosses. But there are many areas that need addressing like I said.

Destroyed

givin-

congrats. that made me chuckle.

don't worry, i am not planning on getting wowarcraft. i did think bout it, but i won't. and as much as i would like to play vanguard, i don't see that happening either. just a lot of wishing, with no substance behind it.

-cc

Cool. Any chance you could stop posting?

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What a coincidence! I was wondering much the same about you, sir.

Ok... We seem to be jumping around a little bit here, let's go back to the original quote so we can be consistent.

This is what I took issue with, you complaining that Warcraft had an insufficient number of things to do at the 'hardcore' level to separate those folks from the casual, so I don't see what 5-man content has to do with this.

In any case, you state that Naxxramas is only 1% of the total content in the entire game which may very well be the case if you sum all the mobs in all the zones and instances. However, it is no mystery to anyone that regularly participates in an organized guild that the bulk of your time is spent at max level doing 'end-game' content which includes Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, Temple of Ahn'Qiraj and Naxxramas. Going solely by a boss count, Naxxramas sits with 15 out of 42, or 36% of total raid content; nevermind the increased difficulty of said bosses and the additional time they demand.

So yes, having not completed a good third of what the 'end-game' has to offer makes you ineligible to complain about their being not enough content.

In quick reply to your second post, heroic difficulty applies to all the dungeons in Hellfire and Zangermarsh and thus extends their longevity significantly. As for the Arena, I'm not sure if you're implying that it wasn't ready by release of the expansion or not, but as I understand it, they held off allowing ranked games simply because there wouldn't be enough of them due to lack of 70s and that ultra-powergamers would have too far of a lead in the first season over avid players who hit 70 a few weeks later. Keeping in mind that the whole point of the arena was to showcase skill and not necessarily time invested, this would fly in the face of the whole philosophy.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

How sweet. At least you've gone from ZANY ON THE INTERNET to on-again-off-again personal fanclub.

It may be glacial in speed, but progress is being made!

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You can't take the zany from me, Randy. Or the children. I'm filing for custody, you whore.

I will pull this car over.

Hardcore content easily(or can easily) encompasses more than raiding. An extremely challenging 5-man can be nearly on par with hard raid content if done right. Both time commitment and skill levels can be a factor in 5-mans just as much as anywhere else. Solo content too, but mostly if it's just geared towards individual classes.



If you count 20-mans, outdoor bosses etc it would be a bit less of the raid content, but I'll go with this.

Spending time doing the same thing over and over does not necessarily equal more content. Nor does challenge, really. I know it takes time to fine-tune these encounters, but again that does not suddenly produce more physical content there. Just take a look at various cockblocks developers have put into MMORPG's over the years. You can increase mob X to hit for 10,000 instead of 9,000 rather easily, and to suggest that doing that creates more content would be a bit silly.



That's pretty much part of my point. You're looking at endgame as raiding. It can encompass more than that. The problem is that they didn't create enough content *besides* the raiding for hardcore players to utilize.



Yes they will be used for Heroic Difficulty and key quests, but I'd say they won't be used nearly as much as the others. It's only natural that people will find the ones that contain the best risk vs reward and flock to it bypassing as much as possible.

As for the arena the difference would have been marginal at best in terms of the powergamers spending more time to get to 70 quicker and then getting "ahead" of others. If the system truly encourages skill, it should be able to accomodate a 2-week head start rather easily. Sure as heck beats not having promised content available at launch too. In the end it will usually still come down to time investment anyway.

Play two games, or have outside interests. And VG is Hitler.

There, now we're rolling.

Sarissa Candyangel

In an entire thread of stupidity, we have found at least one comedic gem.

Venen's logic is fucking stupid and he knows it.



This expansion has that content, you are just being an idiot, as usual, and acting like it doesn't exist. Did you not notice the 15 new 5-man/raiding instances? Who do you think will be doing the heroic dungeons? Pickup groups? They struggle through the Slave Pens as it is.

The pvp battlegrounds and arenas alone will probably keep me playing WoW for a considerable amount of time. But then, I still play Counter Strike because it’s still fun and the WoW battlegrounds remind me of CS with spells. But I’ve only been playing for WoW since the middle of November so it’s still really new for me. In many ways I think it’s a far superior game to Everquest. But I doubt any game will ever have the initial magic and awe that Everquest did when I first started playing.

I’ve been playing fairly casually and completing pretty much every quest I run across in a zone before leaving and I’m already at 67. The game is easy, but don’t worry, there’s a ton to do in WoW and you’ll probably have a blast without being stuck in some giant time sink that you can’t quit out of whenever you want to. I’d say there’s a really large amount of content with the quests, grinding faction or experience, instances, raiding and pvp.

I was also in Vanguard beta and LOTR beta and they’re just not for me at this point. But I never really gave either game a fair shot.

Slave Pens? Dear god we have guild members who couldn't down the 3rd boss in the Ramparts without (officer/uber) help. (The guy and his dragon). Oh, the pains of a family/casual guild LOL.

You stated that WoW was a 'lite' MMO and had ‘ezmode’ content, presuming that hardcore content can comprise of 5-man content is completely irrelevant (even though WoW has it in spades now) because your point was inferring comparison to MMOs that came before WoW.

As I've already said, Warcraft has more content of a higher quality and of greater difficulty (in the good sense as well, not in the masochistic way of Everquest) relative to its peers and thus your claims that it's 'ezmode' and 'lite' are patently false.
The newsflash for all those on the bandwagon of 'WoW is ezmode' is that a relatively simple and enjoyable leveling process does not translate into 'end' content that's simple.

Regarding heroics, I'll leave you with a quote from a Priest (Nnep) of Death & Taxes, Death & Taxes being the arguably number one guild in the world.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

What the heck is the last boss in Slave Pens doing exactly when he starts humping the tank and spewing green crap out his back?

Masterbating?

_________________
"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
My Website: http://www.anthonyhays.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cakvala