Worthy is almost level 80. I got some crappy charms, but, have heard that there is lots better out there. Any suggestions for a good charm? Maybe a 2 slotter? Maybe a DON or something.

Thanks.

Not sure how the Underfoot Boomerang charm is (it increases the more silver/gold tokens you accumulate), but if you plan on doing a lot of Boomerang missions to gear yourself up to 85... this might be an option.

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I just got this one the other day: Intricate Defiant Charm


I will have to look up how the boomerang charm works, thank you.

Try equipping it.

Ok, in all seriousness, I believe Cicely is referring to the "boomerang of wonders", bought with silver tokens (from the boomerang brell's quests - and the silver tokens are tradeable, so you can practically buy the item outright if you want). It's actually a RANGE item though, not CHARM, FYI. For what it's worth, though, have a look at some of the drops in Faydwer and SoD expansions. Surely something there is an upgrade, and some of them are tradeable (for example, a number of Dragonscale Hills / Loping Plains / etc. items are tradeable and probably upgrades).

Yea, I think I had a better charm than that one back when I played 100 years ago.

Aaramis-

There is an actual charm that you can buy with silver/gold tokens. It only costs like 3 or 5 or 10, some very very low amount. It increases in power the more you collect silver/gold tokens.

The boomerang item you speak of is indeed a range slot item, but that is not the charm I am referring to. I am thinking this low bought charm is made to make you do lots of boomerang missions, since it improves the more you play and win...

The other thing you can do is find some friends and camp one of the SoD charms for your cleric. Look me up- I am willing to help out if online and not doing any raids or Underfoot progression! In fact I would love to help out- it does get lonely in the solo game

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Silver Charm of Brell's Favor Lucy's Entry Item Glossary
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: CHARM
AC: 57
STR: +27+3 DEX: +26+2 STA: +24+3 CHA: +24+2 WIS: +27+3 INT: +27+3 AGI: +26+2 HP: +795 MANA: +795 ENDUR: +795
SV FIRE: +28 SV DISEASE: +19 SV COLD: +28 SV MAGIC: +28 SV POISON: +19
Combat Effects: +4 Shielding: +1% Spell Shield: +1% Avoidance: +4 Accuracy: +4 Stun Resist: +1% Strikethrough: +1% DoT Shielding: +1% Attack: +20 HP Regen +3 Mana Regeneration: +3 Clairvoyance: +8 Spell Damage: +4 Damage Shield Mitigation: +1 Heal Amount: +4
Recommended level of 85. Required level of 80.
WT: 1.2 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 7 (General: Group)
Slot 2, Type 3 (General: Spell Effect)
Item Information:
This charm increases in power for the amount of total silver tokens of brell's favor that you have been awarded.


20 silver tokens

When 85, little raiding req for unlock;

Symbol of Disloyalty to Vox Item Glossary
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: CHARM
AC: 67
STR: +30+4 DEX: +30+3 STA: +30+5 CHA: +30+2 WIS: +30+4 INT: +30+4 AGI: +30+4 HP: +939 MANA: +904 ENDUR: +904
SV FIRE: +48 SV DISEASE: +48 SV COLD: +48 SV MAGIC: +48 SV POISON: +48
Combat Effects: +7 Shielding: +3% Spell Shield: +3% Avoidance: +7 Accuracy: +9 Stun Resist: +3% Strikethrough: +3% DoT Shielding: +3% Attack: +35 HP Regen +4 Mana Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +2 Clairvoyance: +14 Spell Damage: +7 Damage Shield Mitigation: +1 Heal Amount: +7
Required level of 85.
WT: 1.6 Size: SMALL
Class: ALL
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8 (General: Raid)
Slot 2, Type 3 (General: Spell Effect)
Item Information:
Grows in power as its owner is hated by Vox.


42 McKenzie's Special Brew

Ahh, sodesu ne. For 20 silver tokens, that's a disgustingly cheap charm (~200pp per token, so 4k plat to buy it)- very nice

Regarding the mackenzie's brews items, how difficult are those MMM's? Some of those purchaseable weapons are insane (i.e. silvery war axe. Old version = 6/22. New version = 73/24. O.o).

The monster missions are some of the most boring things in the history of the game. I am pretty sure someone who knows where to go and who to kill can box it within 30 minutes or so. Anyways they are ridiculously easy, takes no skill, and is mind numbingly boring.

Of course the carrot at the end of the stick is so nice that for many, they are willing to be subjected to this in order for their carrot. I have done two missions, and will not do one again.

The raid missions are a tiny bit more challenging, although that really isn't saying a whole lot. 18 of us can kill Vox and/or Nagafen. The loot at the end is the same as what you can buy so there is incentive there.

The most difficult part would be the pre reqs to be able to go on a Vox/Nagafen raid. I don't know all the details since my character was already flagged well before they came out... but I think you need some sort of SoF, TBS, and prior expansion raids in order to do these. Maybe SoD raids count as well, I don't know.

But the missions are ridiculously easy, it just takes a long long time to accumulate enough brews to buy what you want. So if you want to be bored and non challenged, have fun getting your 76/24 axe in a month or two

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If you've got a better idea on how to get a 73/24 weapon as a non-raider, I'm all ears.

'Course, if you need to be a raider to be flagged to do the raid missions, then it's probably redundant as you probably already have better gear (i.e. Korafax, Convorteum, etc.).
Good job SoE :p

will you guys remind me why you're still playing this relic of a game?

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Asks the guy playing the game that is only 6 years old?

Diablo 2 turns 10 years old tomorrow. They are releasing patch 1.1.3 and resetting the Battle.net ladder as well.

You act as if wow is all I play

And I haven't logged in for over a month since the guild I was in exploded, I just don't have any interest in finding a new one.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I don't think EQ is all those people play either.

I just went off of what was in your signature.

so whats the deal with the monster missions? Are there any prequests that need to be done and how many brews do you get for completing one? Can they be soloed or boxed or am i stuck looking for a group to do them? the pet aug looks very nice.

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Most of the people who left WoW and came back to EQ basically say that EQ at least provides some sort of challenge, whereas WoW provides literally zero challenge. Kind of like those monster missions in EQ

Speaking of... you don't need any pre reqs for the group monster missions. I think maybe you need to be 75 or something to wear the gear, or maybe it is 80... not sure, as I mentioned only did two group ones. Anyways all you do is find other people, you shroud down to a lvl 50 character (you pick who you want to be), then you go into the zone and basically have to kill all the named in the zone. Sounds hard... but no, not so much. I have heard people, once they get the mob placement down pat, can clear everything in an hour or so. Generally they just invis up, run to the named, kill it, invis and run to next named, etc etc.

Remember that these missions came out before Underfoot, so cannot really compare the loot quality to Underfoot quality like Convorteum. And I guess there really isn't any other way to get a 73/24 sword... unless you flag yourself and get it from a higher end Underfoot zone. And that takes people with good gear/AA and time. I am slowly going through them, they really aren't as hard as I thought they would be- although I have died more times than in really any SoD mission. Getting hit for 6k is fun times!

One thing you could look at is getting a Fabled weapon. I just got my monk the 40/20 one from PoEarth, which is far better than the 29/18 I was using earlier. Granted it isn't 73/24 or whatever... but it is better.

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Most of the people who left WoW and came back to EQ basically say that EQ at least provides some sort of challenge, whereas WoW provides literally zero challenge. Kind of like those monster missions in EQ

Speaking of... you don't need any pre reqs for the group monster missions. I think maybe you need to be 75 or something to wear the gear, or maybe it is 80... not sure, as I mentioned only did two group ones. Anyways all you do is find other people, you shroud down to a lvl 50 character (you pick who you want to be), then you go into the zone and basically have to kill all the named in the zone. Sounds hard... but no, not so much. I have heard people, once they get the mob placement down pat, can clear everything in an hour or so. Generally they just invis up, run to the named, kill it, invis and run to next named, etc etc.

Remember that these missions came out before Underfoot, so cannot really compare the loot quality to Underfoot quality like Convorteum. And I guess there really isn't any other way to get a 73/24 sword... unless you flag yourself and get it from a higher end Underfoot zone. And that takes people with good gear/AA and time. I am slowly going through them, they really aren't as hard as I thought they would be- although I have died more times than in really any SoD mission. Getting hit for 6k is fun times!

One thing you could look at is getting a Fabled weapon. I just got my monk the 40/20 one from PoEarth, which is far better than the 29/18 I was using earlier. Granted it isn't 73/24 or whatever... but it is better.

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^^ Dbl post

As for fabled, yeah, that's what my bard is currently using (bard version is 39/21). With Jonthan's warsong (+102% proc modifier) and Weapon Affinity, the pets can get pretty silly. So that's his main form of dps currently. Only problem is once you get into the higher level content, the mobs will evade/parry a lot of the pet attacks, so the dps add can become pretty inconsistent. Against raid-level stuff, I'd imagine pet dps is negligable.

Ahh well.

I don't really touch monster missions so can't help a whole hell of a lot but;

You need lvl 80, most of the gear will be req for 85. You can box them easy enough if you learn the missions, as well as give/get taskadds. Iirc you only get like 2 brews per mission (could be more, never bothered to pay attn), decent xp (few aa's per), and decent amount of plat.

For grouping you have to do 1 to unlock then next, 3 group missions, 2 raids. To request the raids you must have the group missions done and completed certain raids (they say solteris, but pretty much any sof/sod/uf will probably be fine since no one does solteris anymore..). To join an ongoing raid (and not requesting) I believe all you need is the group missions completed.


As for the missions themselves, last I heard the zones were spawning fabled mobs.... Might want to wait a week if it's not fixed. But as Cicely said, you pick a lvl 50 char and play through old zones. Iirc, doing these as they unlock solo (lets say 3 boxing since you need 3) you can make something around 200k a week, plus earn brews to buy sod equivalent weapons/gear. Not really a bad deal if your sanity can take mm's.

Hopefully that's close enough, I avoid mm's and generally only get task adds from guild mates. They were put in to close the gap between sod raiders and groupers so groupers could survive/compete (lol..) in uf.

Because a lot has changed in 11yrs, it is vastly more challenging than WoW, Conan, Warhammer, etc. Oh, and if you get good gear, you can solo shit pretty easily compared to having to group...

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Those quotes seem conflicting. Is the content so easy that it can be soloed, or is it challenging? Or are you just talking about soloing obsolete/farm/leveling content, which you can do in most other games as well?

Trak is FFA, STFU.

ps: EQ2 > EQ

Unless you're a Troubadour, in which case EQ1 >>>>>>> EQ2.

I like EQ1 because I can play it solo on my laptop while watching TV and not have to press 40 buttons a second. EQ2 is a real good game, but it's so button-mashy.

At least it was like 3 years ago when I last played it.

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Still is. :p

Trak is FFA is a registered trademark Xantheus Diabolus 2001

I'm afraid you now owe me a beer.

Put it on my tab.

sure you don't want to start the night with crown and coke, xan?

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

I couldn't even tell you the last time I had Crown. I also couldn't tell you the last time I was drunk. Been a long time.

Ditto, honestly!

Ahh, the joys of parenthood!!!

Nah Bovine, I'm talking about hard shit that takes groups to kill if you aren't in tower 4.5 gear. Look at my Magello, I have more HP than most tanks and parse upwards of 10k DPS and I'm a chain class.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
_____
VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Having seen a few of the more recent EQ and EQ2 encounters, I'm still not seeing a ton of situations similar to WoW where(in some encounters like the Heroic version of Lich King and a few other bosses) it's basically "Have every individual do X and X action within 0.5 seconds or the entire raid will wipe". Just seems like "grind more gear, win the game" standard EQ fare. This goes along with maintaining max dps rotations during intensive fights, significantly more tank movement/attention, and clutch heals. I mean I've seen the videos and I've heard stories from people who've done the EQ and EQ2 encounters and it still sounds like it's the same as it was a couple years ago. I'm just not sure where the skill level comes into play, but maybe I'm missing something. Strategy I will agree is present, though.

Venen - many of the TSO raids and SF raids in EQ2 have features that wipe the entire raid if 1-2 people at a time don't do something, but nothing, that I've seen, where everyone has to do something. It's more of - you get curse, do action or entire raid wipes and text on the screen shows you were the dumbass.

Lots of AE dodging still, but yeah.. typical grind gear and ultimately you will win if you aren't all slackers type stuff.

Yea, most EQ2 fights seem more about resists and/or curing harmful effects than anything else.

Yeah. Resists, curing (both on a raid and individual level), positioning, and dodging. If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge an AE.

I wouldn't necessarily call the encounters "easy" though.

Good times. I wasn't trying to be an ass in my previous post, either. Was actually curious, realized later it sounded combative. =O



Yeah, I don't know how much content people who hate on WoW's endgame have actually done, but it always boggles me when I hear them. Maybe they've only done the first few bosses in Ulduar or something, because honestly some of those WERE pretty boring.

I don't think people hate on WoWs endgame because of the encounters. They hate on WoW because you bust your ass to get through endgame content and the next week the casuals are getting the same shit for zero effort. There is no real sense of achieving anything when everyone has the same gear.

Yup, the encounters are usually pretty cool. But everything gets nerfed to hell and everyone with a pulse ends up with the same gear without having to put forth the same effort. For some people, it's cool that the game is like this. For others (like me) it really ruined the game.

Yea, I agree with that completely. They've really dumbed that aspect down to the point where even the casuals themselves are getting bored and feeling little sense of achievement. I just wanted to nitpick with the idea that, pound for pound compared to other MMO's, WoW's endgame encounters(while they still are endgame) can actually be pretty tough and require pretty good coordination.

Now come on. That's bull and you know it. You don't see "everyone" or "casuals" in the top-end gear. It hasn't been that way for a long time, but people keep saying it like it's gospel.

I'll challenge you to show me one instance where everyone/casuals have been getting the same gear as top-end raiders since...like...Naxxramas.

Sure you do. Nearly everyone is running around with at least 2 pieces of tier 10 or a 264/251 weapon. The reality is that the amount of actual 25-man drops you even need or are BIS are pretty few and far between. Emblems gear, crafting make up, hell.. almost half of the non-heroic BIS items for a hunter like me. Between weekly raids, once-a-day 2x emblem 5-mans and the super easy 10-man farming, it's kind of a joke. Blizzard front-loaded most of the essential 25-man drops (weapons, bows, etc.) into the first few bosses in ICC.

Go grab gearscore and run around Dalaran for a while. The difference between hardcore and active casual raider is only a few hundred points. That gap will separate a little as hardcore raiders get heroic 25-man gear, but it will still be relatively flat because the active casual raider will be getting even more i-264 gear. The damage/healing/hp buff being at 10% will only make it easier for them to complete 25-man content and get more gear. Hell. At 150k raid dps on festergut, that buff gives us another 15k dps player, slightly more than our best dps. And that buff will only go up.

I'm not complaining. I've gotten used to what the game is now. But it is what it is.

There's the problem, the people complaining are apparently of the opinion that 251/264 gear is "top-end". Sorry, but there's still a huge gap between a player in Lich King/277 gear and someone who pugs Lower Citadel.

The reality is that the difference between normal modes and hard modes has created a much larger gap between mediocre raid groups and really good raid groups. The gap is so big, in fact, that the mediocre raiders have all but lost sight of the hard modes altogether and are honestly thinking that normal modes are the "top end".

Heck, you don't even see very many people in the best gear from the LAST tier of content. Does everyone in your guild have tribute cloaks? Mine sure doesn't. =/

So now you have a lot of mediocre raid groups complaining that casuals are getting "top end" loot too because it's easier to complain about that than it is to admit that they're not a "top end" raid group.

And for the record, I'm not trying to be elitist. I'm in one of those mediocre raid groups myself. I see at lot of the same griping in that group too. People saying, "Maaaan, this newb has the same Frozen Bonespike that I have..." as if he really thought his weapon off the first - and easily puggable - boss was special.

The argument I am making is that the difference between "top-end" gear and active casuals is very small. Especially in a historical context.

And I'm arguing that people have become confused about the concept of "Top-end" and are instead thinking that it means "The stuff I'm wiping on, which must be top-end because I'm awesome and I'm wiping on it."

There's no other explanation for people thinking that the gap between top-end and casual is small when it really isn't...at all.

Top-end car enthusiasts get to drive a BMW 5-series.

Active casual car enthusiasts can drive a fully loaded BMW 335. They will never get to drive the 5-series car.

The difference between a fully loaded 3-series and a 5-series is quite small. My fully loaded 3-series costs $25,000 and your 5-series car costs 2 billion dollars. Yes, I will never drive a 5-series. For little time investment, I can come real damn close.. Closer, in fact, than I've ever been able to get. I used to have to drive a Gremlin when the other guy had a Porsche.

There aren't exactly 20 zones that people are actively learning/raiding. Everyone is either raiding the "top-end" stuff or they are "casual".

That's not comparable at all.

Like I said, the difference between a player in Lich King and 277 gear versus someone who pugs Lower Spire and maybe a couple other bosses is HUGE. Not 5-series versus 3-series. More like BMW 5-series versus a stock corvette or something. I dunno cars that well.

Maybe the item levels and (yuck) gearscore don't sound like big differences to you for whatever reason. Maybe you just don't want to see the difference because it pokes holes in the argument. But I assure you they are very large.



See, people say that but they're apparently forgetting the existence of heroic modes which, despite having the same graphics, tend to be an entirely different tier of content altogether.

Like I said before, despite the cries of "casuals have the same stuff! Everything is dumbed down!" you still don't see people in the best gear from the LAST tier of content. If it's really that simple and there's such a small gap and the content is all dumbed down, why isn't everyone walking around in their 272 tribute cloaks and 258 Reign of the Dead (screw you, trinket) from Tier 9 content, unlocking ICC heroic modes, getting their 284 weapons, etc etc?

Because it's not that easy, it's not super-dumbed-down (anymore), and there IS a tremendous gap between a casual raider/pugger and someone in exceptional gear who's in a great raid group.

You act like the stuff from heroic modes is vastly superior to anything else you can get. News flash: it's not. Enjoy your game. You still like it and you accept it for what it is now. Nothing more really needs to be said.

Defining a casual raider as someone who pugs icc-25 is completely broken. My guild is 8/12 normal mode, and we're ranked in the 10,000s as a guild. That's beyond a commonly available pug, as commonly available pugs don't get 8/12 bosses in ICC. Yet the difference in my dps, as a 5750 gearscore hunter, and someone in a 6/12 heroic mode guild, is less than 1k dps. I can hit 9-11k on any given boss, and someone geared to the hilt can hit less than 10% more dps traditionally. Those are marginal differences. I've still got a fucking 5-man trinket on. I looked at a DPS parse from Vodka, and their best raiders are hitting 12-13k dps. I can hit 10-11k dps. Where's the huge difference? I raid 2-3 days a week at most, and I put no time into my hunter outside of raid times. The amount of time invested between me and whoever they have in their guild is massive, and yet that only yields a 1-2k dps advantage?

How is that relevant at all? The *last* tier of content is worse or comparable, at best, to the middle-level i264 gear that guilds like mine can easily attain.

Show me the DPS parses of the tremendous difference between these guilds. At the end of the day - if the gearscore advantage is trivial, the performance via dps parses is trivial, and the set bonuses are identical... Just what the fuck about the gear level is so wildly off the mark in your mind?

Whatever. I can tell no one is really going to try to respond to any of my points, so I'll just leave it alone.

If you don't like the game, then you should quit, that's obviously the best thing to do. But don't be surprised when people chuckle a bit when your reason for quitting boils down to, "Man, I was just too leet for that game."

Edit after seeing the above post:

Ok, even if we went by your numbers, you don't think 10% is a significant difference? Oookay. It's funny that in your previous post you went on about the 10% ICC buff being this big deal:



But now 10% is just "marginal".

And for the record, I'm looking at parses with hunters in ICC 25-heroic doing upwards of 17k DPS. I'm not sure where you're seeing 13k as being top-of-the-line or something.



It's relevant because people keep chanting how easy everything is, how it's all dumbed down, how mouth-breathing retards can do anything a pro raider can do, blah blah blah. And yet even plenty of dedicated guilds still couldn't even finish the last tier of content...and many still try, because there's still a lot of decent gear that drops from there, especially if you're not looking at trying ICC 25-heroic any time soon.

Show me a dps parse, don't look at theoretical records on WoL. Sustainable dps.

I already said I wasn't complaining. I'm merely countering your point that there's a huge difference between top-end and casuals. There's not. It's smaller than it's ever been. You still haven't addressed that. Are you saying that the gap between top-end and casuals now is MORE than it was in TBC, when most guilds couldn't even get past Magtheridon and into SSC and TK until it was nerfed / removed as a requirement to zone in? Recall that the reason Naxx was re-introduced is because no one could even get into Naxx in the vanilla WoW, and that Sunwell had a similar, though less serious, issue.

You do? Let's speculate here. how much time do you think the average player from a top-50 guild puts into WoW vs what, say, you and I put in? I'll quantify my own time investment - 6-9 hours per week. When I'm not raiding, I'm not even playing my hunter. Now let's speculate on the other guys investment. Double my own? More than double? What about time spent theorycrafting and min/maxing their gear outside of the game. More than triple? Quadruple? The point is - super hardcore players are probably putting in just as much time now as they had to back in TBC and pre-TBC. The casuals are putting in the same time, if not less time, and the difference between the two is marginal. Casuals couldn't even *see* top-end content, and emblems for i-level equivalent gear hasn't even been in-game until around Sunwell.

For a 10% dps gain across a raid? That's a huge difference, in your mind? Furthermore, with the zonewide buff at 10% and going to be even higher, it further reduces the gap in the capabilities of the casual raider, allowing them to see and attain gear previously available only to hardcore players. What was the limit that blizzard communicated on the buff? As high as 35%, eventually?

Who has said any of those things, in this thread?

Neesha: "But everything gets nerfed to hell"

Venen: "They've really dumbed that aspect down to the point where even the casuals themselves are getting bored and feeling little sense of achievement."



You're just guessing and speculating here. I personally know plenty of raiders in the top-end guilds on my server that don't put in quadruple the time I do. A select few people in the WoW community as a whole put in a lot of time and effort into theorycrafting and such as a hobby, but you don't really think that every individual player sits there and does it, do you?

Heck, if my time in a endgame guild in EQ (and my short stint in an endgame guild in WoW) was any indication, I spent LESS time because we didn't fuck around, stuff got dead and we moved on.

As for the TBC/Pre-TBC references...I think many people would agree with me when I say that the real barrier to entry back then was managing to get 40 people together. =(

Neither statement is equivalent to the wild hyperbole you posted. But the points are completely true. Both of them. The curve of the buff getting bigger and bigger is just a reverse nerf, planned and announced over time. It's literally no different than slowly scaling down boss damage, just in the opposite direction. And I, for one, am pretty bored. I wish there were more to strive for once you run out of emblem upgrades and waiting for raids to start.

Most casual guilds raid 3 days a week for 2-3 hours. When I was in a "hardcore" guild I raided 5 days a week, for 3-5 hours each night. I don't know any hardcore guilds that raid only 3 days per week. That alone is almost double. And are you really suggesting that top-end (which you still haven't defined, btw) put in only the time they spend raiding?

You're 8/12 ICC and wish there were more to strive for? Do you PvP at all?

Maybe if you had some progression in ICC 25-heroic or something I could understand where you're coming from, but when I see people who haven't even cleared normal mode complaining about things being dumbed down, nerfed, saying heroic gear isn't worth it, and other stuff...well, it's just silly. It's like having a 50-pin handicap in bowling and saying it's too easy.

Anyway, this is just pointless. It's a game, we should just do what we like in it and leave it at that. I'm just debating for the sake of debating at this point anyway, since I'm at work and bored.

everquest

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Dude, how many times do I have to tell you that I'm not complaining? I like the content where it is. I got used to it long ago. Are you reading the same fucking thread I am? I *like* the buff and it getting bigger. But it is a nerf. Period.

I'm rebutting your terrible point that the gap between hardcore and casuals is huge.

Ok. Cool story, bro.

I quit WoW because the game has been so dumbed down. 3 months into ICC, well over 1,000 guilds are at least 6/12 on heroic mode. WoW as a whole is ridiculously easy. It's like the training wheels of MMOs. Just because 2% of the game may be challenging, doesn't mean the game as a whole is.