A few months ago they started a poll where they would open a new server of whatever type won. Apparently people voted for a server where you can start a character of any class at level 51 with 50 aa's banked. Seems pretty lame to me.

Wow...

It takes maybe 3 or 4 hours, if that to hit 50 with any class. What a waste of potential.

I guess we can continue to see an increase in the EQMac population and a line of people waiting on EQClassic (or something similiar) to pop up.

So sad and insulting to the 10 year anniversary.

yeah, it is like Sony saying "For our Ten Year anniversary we are going to release a new server that makes our first four years irrelevant!"

Jeez. They might as well have asked for a new server where everyone starts with 10 plat or something.

For anyone who complains about this, two questions-

1. What would you have wanted the new server to be?
2. If that vote won, would YOU have re-activated your account and started on that new server and maintained (i.e. paying) your account for at least 12 months?

Because it is one thing to be critical of the choice. And I am sure we all would want it a different way. But if we won't re-activate and play on it, then why bother being critical in the first place? That is like if I want the Pistons to re-sign Iverson and they do, then I won't buy any jerseys or go to any games. I get what I want, now I should support the cause!

ps- I don't want the Pistons to resign Iverson. Thankfully they won't.

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Anything different?

Seriously, this isn't even a "special" server. It's just another regular server with a tiny signing bonus.



Possibly. I reactivated for the original progression servers and I'm actually playing EQ right now on an emulator because I really like the server style that they created.

I find this estimate to be a little bit ridiculous, but it has been many years. Have they changed leveling that much?

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Van, it's pretty true... they pretty well gave us a $5 off coupon except 5 hours. Especially with Mercs in the game.. leveling is nothing. Also, if you have count all the Veteran awards with EXP potions or whatever, you're still going through nothing. I actually may log onto the new server just to see what it's like from a day one perspective, those were always fun times in EQ. However, i'm a little concerned about the learning curve. Since i've been pretty much non-existent from EQ for a few years and I wanted to play a ShadowKnight, i'm 50 levels and 51 AA's into a class that I have played very minimal. The big thing for me as well will be all the newb rush to have characters at 50 running around like maniacs, feeling the power of being 50. You don't know how many people I have talked to around here that gave up on EQ back in 2000-2001, their highest level was mid 40's but now have this weird ictch of throwing WoW out the window and trying EQ.

It appears that A LOT of people that are in MMO's today missed the EQ era which is understandable when you look at numbers back then and look at MMO players today. They are wanting more of a challenge and some how EQ's name is being brought up. I'm really just going to reactivate my account for EQMac but I will check out opening day for the new server.

Anyone know if they have announced a date or even a tentative timeframe?

wonder how the starting gear will be.

I wouldnt say 5 hrs = lvl 50. It would take a few weeks of honest playing.

14 days is quite a bit different than 5 hours. Someone here is uninformed.

I think the point is offering people 50 level and 51 AA isn't offereing anything at all. It's just time and pretty minimal time with some decent playing. I seriously doubt it could take a few days of casual playing. I had a friend who was trying to get me roll on his server, this is a year ago mind you, and said he could PL me to max in 2-3 evenings. I mean think back to expansion days with increased levels, or people you knew rerolled... it was amazing how quickly people leveled toons up. Remember the Frog Cleric with epic? I still have the screenshot posted of him somewhere and that was crazy.

I think my biggest complaint isn't the fact a progression server lost but, 50/51 is nothing special. EQ's 10th Anniversary deserved something special. The ultimate gift would have been a Classic Server, next a time-locked progression or some type of different ruleset. After that, you would probably get something like a rebirth of a server that no longer exists or has not been released in a long time (something like a new RZ or VZ). Anyway, it's disappointing to me.

*shrug*

If you twink out a new character and take them to the xp hotzones you can level insanely fast. Even without twinking it is fast for classes that solo well.

I might have played on a classic server. I guess I will just have to wait for the EQclassic people to finish theirs so I can play there.

Maybe for a total new player without any twinking or help at all and playing a melee class.

Maybe.

You don't even have to do anything as a new character except chain pull mobs to your tank merc. Especially if you follow the hotzones, and have hotzones that can acomodate a wide level spread such as iceclad or stonebrunt. You actually stunt your leveling by helping in most cases and not having another mob on deck ready for your merc to chew up.

If it takes you two weeks to hit 50 now, you're the most casual of casuals that plays 10 mins a day or doing it very very wrong.

If you start with a fresh account with all the expansions, realistically how soon can you actually hire a merc?

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

Level 1

i want to say i got 2 characters to 70 within 3 weeks, but i honestly don't remember the details of my last eq experience, which was maybe 3 months ago

also cicely stop posting

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So they released a bad new server that ruined an already dated and boring game?

Trying to get my facts straight here.

At least UO has some semblence of gameplay. Let's keep our nostalgic indulgences in the right places, folks.

But I have no nostalga for UO...

And UO jumped the shark long long before EQ began showing signs of going off the deep end.

Fuck it. I honestly have no idea what he's trying to say. It's like current events gayity spilling over to here.

Lemme help Givin...

Translation - WoW r0x0rz, EQ don't, the end.

On a side note, I have been playing EQ casually for the last few weeks and with all of the new stuff, mercs included, the game is a lot more fun now than wow ever was for me. Granted I haven't played seriously since Luclin/PoP days, but man, there is so much to do compared to WoW it really boggles the mind.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Khan, have you tried EQMac? The reason i'm asking, I am curious how much you think the experience is enchanced or diminished with the full game? Do you think the game would be more enjoyable without all the "new" expansions and the EQ experience is better preserved in EQMac? I guess this question could be open to everyone... just wondering how much of EQ is left under all the pile of new EQ...

WoW is far from "R0x0rz", but it's the best we got right now. I wouldn't blame anyone for trying something different or even going back to old games for shits and giggles, but EQ is so far gone that its problems are even more glaringly obvious than before when we had no other option then, either. At the very least you can say that back in 1999-2003, EQ had something going for it - being the only MMORPG in its league.

UO dying before EQ's lifespan isn't really comparable. EQ was unique for its time because it offered a fully 3D, living world with more objective and what is now considered MMORPG-style class-based carrot-on-a-stick gameplay. UO was unique, but the scope was not nearly as large. UO was killed by its second expansion, and arguably the impending release of EQ.

And yea, there's a lot to do in EQ. Unfortunately, most of it involves turning your autoattack on and afking. There's a reason dual boxing is more viable in EQ, ya know.

If you like it, more power to ya. But the gameplay is still some of the most shallow on the MMORPG market any way you slice it. Normally I'd say a game franchise(including EQ2) doing poorly is no indication that a game is bad. In this case, it happens to be a bad dose of nostalgia for people who can't tell the difference between genuine gameplay and reminiscing the past, and that's the reason it continues to perform poorly.

In the end some of you may realize that you've actually turned into the old guy in the run-down shack playing Pong with 70's music in the background. "Those darned whippersnappers don't make games like they used to". I think that's unfortunate, because I know many people that adapt to the times and know genuine quality when they see it. Surprisingly, modern music isn't simply loud screaming with the volume turned up, either.

As far as I can tell, at least a few of you have become your own Cicelys.

What the fuck are you even arguing against? People just said that a 50/51 server is kind of lackluster for an anniversary milestone and you are trying to over analyze it and turn it into some great psychological analysis. If anything, you are the closest thing to Cicely himself with your innate ability to post the most retarded horseshit that only you can make sense of.

Christ, really. What the fuck.

This is what I'm arguing against:



There really was no potential there. Or at least about as much potential as "Vanguard will be great!" and "Age of Conan is hot shit, take it from Givin" and "Warhammer is the next sliced bread!" or even "Shadowbane was da shitz!".

Plus, if you're going to say something's retarded, you really do yourself a disservice by not actually answering to any of the arguments within.

Why? Your arguments are fucking stupid. The whole base of your "argument" is you don't like the word potential and you want to argue that by saying UO was pretty cool and EQ is old.

Everyone knows EQ is 10 years old. Everyone also knows that a new server wouldn't bring the second coming. What made it worth watching was the fact they could have done something at least interesting enough to read about, like make a new progresson server and use feedback from the community on how to handle this one. Instead, they go with a very lackluster 50/51 one.

I don't even know why you bring Ultima Online up at all. The rest of your post was just horseshit that only you could piece together and understand and not worth looking at.

Since you and Cicely are two stupid ass clown shoes I'll put a disclaimer.

WHEN I SAY POTENTIAL IT DOES NOT MEAN IT WILL BE THE SECOND COMING OF EVERQUEST THE FIRST AND ATTRACT A SUPER HIGH PLAYERBASE AGAIN.



Great one. Sure, some of those reviews were a bit off, and if you tracked us talking about them you'd see how I changed from those opinions. I'd still stand by those. Even with those errors, I can say I am happy that I never had to resort to pussy shit like hiding behind an alias and make a piss poor attempt at creating cross server EQ drama for a rival guild that fucking monkey stomped you every day just because the word "Legacy" was shared between it and a more well know guild and they both posted stupid tells on their front page.

Seriously, what the fuck were you thinking?

Shadowbane was neat.
UO was fun.
EQ was fantastic.
WoW is a great game with moderately horrible communities.

But on the topic of the thread, I find the idea of a server that starts you at 51 with 50AA's to be kind of neat, but disappointing compared to a progression server or the like. Not that I'd ever go back to EQ. I'd really never tempt that obsession again.

Lets be honest here. MMO gameplay is inherently shallow, it's just a limitation of the genre. Aside from mindlessly mashing a few more buttons than you do in EQ, and avoiding the fire, WoW isn't much deeper.



There's actually quite a bit I'm enjoying about EQ right now, and it's not just all about "gameplay". I know it's good for the short-attention-span crew, but WoW basically just herds you from place to place and then spits you out in Shattrath/Dalaran/Whatever's next and funnels you from linear instance to linear instance.

It's nice to spelunk my way through a non-linear dungeon, actually getting lost sometimes (I STILL fucking get lost in Guk!!! How?! I'm so bad.) actually running into random other people that may or may not affect my situation, etc. It's nice actually doing things in the world itself. (Including PvP, as crappy as EQ PvP might be.)

Does it have problems? Oh god yes. They're everywhere. If WoW is a shiny, polished product, EQ is like a tarnished old piece of silver. But, and I remember saying this before I started playing and my experience so far has confirmed it, I feel much more like I'm in a "world" in EQ than in WoW. Illusory? Sure. But hey, isn't everything in these things?

Only read about? You can't fool me on that one. You've already posted pics of yourself playing EQ2, you've mentioned offhand knowledge about EQ1 that you may or may not have gotten from actually playing it. You're obviously leaving out something that you'd like that would be desirable enough for you to give a shot, maybe a new type of progression server?

That's more or less my point - you'd try it, and no one in their right mind with any gaming sense would go back. It's a dead game. You used to yammer on about Cicely fussing over whether to return to EQ or not, and now you're doing it. It just looks pathetic.



It's a solid game that has more merit to returning to to check out than EQ does. I'm by no means saying it's 10x better than EQ, and it's still a visit to nostaglia-land, but it at least has it's finer points. Excellent PVP, a free environment with more interactivity, player housing(not done correctly, but it was something), and tradeskills weren't horrible.

And as always, if you're going to say something's retarded, it might help even to *pretend* that you understand it =)



Sure you changed your mind, everyone changes their mind. Some just take a bit longer than others. The fact of the matter is that you let yourself get excited about those games and got carried away in your judgement about them when you came to tell everyone about it. That is the last person I would ever want to get game recommendations from, and you've gone on to prove it time and time again that you are that guy.

I'm honestly not sure what you're referring to with the whole Legacy thing, other than the obvious "Fallen Legacy". I've heard brief mention of another popular "Legacy" guild, but I've never posted on forums to the effect you described. I DID however post that old rant on fohguild.org regarding Conquest.

That's one of the few times I've used an alias, ever really. My favorite character on EQ remained Bumzab in the end, people started calling me that, and I kept it over for WoW with the friends from EQ I moved with there. You can find me any time you need me on Doomhammer =) I also made the hunter Venen, but I didn't have much of a taste for hunters so he died at level 60.

I agree that all MMO gameplay is generally shallow due to the nature of the genre, of course. But I have to disagree that WoW isn't significantly deeper. The button mashing is significantly less mindless than it was in EQ. At the very least you're almost always doing something that requires somewhat of an attention span. I can't say the same about EQ, especially the mechanics of most encounters were simple tank and spanks. Even if the same could be said about WoW, almost every class has a distinct rotation the developers intentionally put in for just about every class I can think of, and usually the situation and timing may require a different type of rotation.



I'd argue the short-attention span crew might find themselves more at home in EQ considering the additional depth of encounters. In the case of attention span, gameplay may indeed be a critical component because you can't simply autoattack.

EQ still has linear components to it, even if they're less obvious. I'll agree it's more freeform, but that I can't see that reasoning alone be enough to draw one back from WoW or another newer MMORPG.



Ugh, I attempted PvP so many times in EQ only to be left with a horrible taste in my mouth. The biggest problem is that the game wasn't built with it in mind, and it completely shows in every way.

It does have a more "worldly" feel to it, I agree. I just find myself unconvinced that these intangibles are enough to justify playing it again. Again, if you enjoy it, more to ya - it's a matter of taste, and I understand where you're coming from because I have bouts of nostalgia myself. These are aspects I'd like to see more of in WoW, and we both had quite the lengthly debate with Argrax in the other thread about it. I just don't see these few positives being enough to outshine all of the bad aspects.

On the other hand there's easily something tangible about the sheer polish of WoW, the mechanics that for the most part have been gone over with a fine-tooth comb, the PvP which remains some of the best PvP in an MMO to date, the raids(particularly Ulduar, which has been quite good since release) are engaging and non-static, even the 5-man dungeons are a longshot from what they were in vanilla WoW when we had like 2-3 dungeons to crawl through, and of course the general combat mechanics. There's really a lot to do if you actually let yourself get absorbed in it.

I had to reply to this one in particular. The problem is that - once you know your class - it becomes clear that although there's more buttons to mash there's really no decision making or real depth to the button mashing. There's just more buttons and a slightly faster pace which is really all that keeps you from multi-boxing in WoW just as well as anyone did in EQ.

I'd compare it to a bard in EQ, actually. There's just more buttons to push, which would make it harder to box a bard. But really no more complexity.

You could be the smartest person on the planet, and at the same time you could fuck up an anvil with a rubber mallet every time you open your mouth.

You have no point. You just clicked on the wrong forum to spew your random shitvomit on. Only your fucked up logic could equate trying a game out for a month or two during a mmo lull to resubbing to a 10 year old game because they refuse to let go and move on. I wish to god I could reach through my monitor and smack your stupid face. I could post a lot of screens from games I play and have played. Your point? What the fuck does that have to do with anything. P.S. You don't have one, just to stop you before you faceroll a typewriter again to come up with what you're calling arguable points.



You keep jerking that UO straw man cock and eventually it's going to catch fire. It is no different than EQ.

So in order for things to actually be more complex, what exactly would be different?

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

I guess something that forced you to make decisions.

Sure, you have the illusion of choices right now just on virtue of having so many buttons to push, but there's only one right choice and 24 wrong ones. Venen was right, there's all these rotations and such for each class, but it's just a matter of mashing in that order.

But like I said, MMO's are really inherently simplistic in that regard. It's hard to imagine a situation where decision-making would take a large role in performance.

Givin, Just consider the source. Venen was about 11 when UO came out and what, 13 when he started playing EQ. He doesn't even have a clue what UO was like in the beginning even a few years into it for that matter. Or really even EQ since he was shit listed for being a douche pretty much his entire EQ career. He doesn't have any fond recollections of EQ because he had to solo his necro all the time because people avoided grouping with him like the motherfucking plague.

Take it for what it's worth...I've played everything out there, betas and releases. I am having more fun in EQ right now than in anything I have played for years.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

HAHAHAHA! I'd soooo forgotten about that. The amusing thing is, we know who did it. You see, back in the day, there was a private EQ forum setup by the devs in which all of the major players (not that FL was a "major" player, but we did find some rather whacked out ways to do shit) would gripe about encounters and patch schedules. Thus, we all knew each other. The guild leader of said other guild (who I'm still decent friends with) was happy to provide the ip information of that poster, which in turn was provided to us and could be referenced to the Lanys Board poster. I consider this person to be a sad bitter panda.

Let me see if I can help, maybe even clarify Givin's posts, overall just try to help Venen and everyone else understand why this was a big deal and why their was and is potential in EQ.

First off, EQ is not a dead game, it rivals, in terms of subs, every game out there except WoW. Last I heard, it was on track for passing EQ2 in subs and probably has or will have more than AoC, VG, and a plethera of other games. The more appropriate word for EQ is dated but, really in terms of appearence.

Venen, you are not giving EQ enough credit in terms of MMO's or even PC gaming. I would say outside of Starcraft and a small lineage of games such as Quest for Glory, EQ laid the foundation of massive scale gaming. I consider UO the unknown founding father but, really EQ was pulling 250k to 500k when this was completely unimaginable. You can't compare sub numbers from now to then, it's like value of the US dollar from the 1950's to the mid 90's.

This opportunity or potential opportunity was not about reviving EQ or reinventing the game but to celebrate something that had never been done before. To relive what made the things we do in terms of PC gaming, MMO's, and online communities today. It should have been the recreation of a journey, for those who may have missed it, to just see what was and how it made it to now. To see the orgins of ideas, experience failures, and humble beginnings of the MMO industry. Instead EQ did not capitalize on anything worthy of its legacy. It would be like not having fireworks on the fourth of July and instead giving everyone a half burnt sparkler.

So don't confuse yourself with thinking that EQ had the opportunity of showing off some amazing level of gameplay, graphics, etc. However, they did have an opportunity to do something that would be worthy of its legacy, nostalgic for its former players, and a once in a lifetime, historical journey for its current players. It could have been special and given a proper celebration to the game that provided a springboard for every MMO you see today. This isn't about celebrating a 10 year old game but celebrating an experience and a time that can never be truly relived.

Queue Kool and the Gang.

Did someone implement a minimum post count per thread when I wasn't looking?

Is it cue? I never know on that one.

Bovinity:



There's not an easy fix for this, but it's still more "complicated" than EQ ever was, even after playing a bard. Sure, it's additional simple button mashing in most cases, but it actually requires you to pay more attention. I'd argue there already is a decision-making progress in a good number of fights, *especially* if you don't know the strategy. Depending on the fight, all sorts of abilities can come in handy on many occasions. So really we're talking about 2 differences. I admit I haven't seen the brand new EQ fights first-hand, but from what I've read the scripting doesn't hold a candle to something like Ulduar's encounters.

Givin:



I just think it's funny you're getting bent out of shape over my simply saying it's a dated and boring game. I must have hit a nerve, because you were one of the first to respond, almost as if my first post was directed at you. Talk about calling yourself out. You know you're playing a bad, old game, and you're defensive about it. Understandable.



I gave some pretty specific differences, and I outlined what EQ had that UO didn't.

Elessar:



Are you guys sure you're not talking about the fohguild.org incident? I do remember Leo suggesting he would check the IP with the admins at fohguild, and I admitted it right after in that old thread. I'd have no reservations about admitting something like that since I've done it in the past, I just don't remember going to another "Legacy" guild's website and posting shit.

It's idiotic because your whole argument is EQ is boring because it's old. And yet you cite Ultima Online as what you should go back to and it's an even older game with a third of what EQ offers. It's also hilarious how badly you want me to be playing it. You are the spiritual embodiment of Skycrasher.

You couldn't formulate a coherent argument if your life depended on it.

I can see why you have trouble understanding. I said several times that UO wasn't that much better, but would be a better choice for nostalgia purposes because of the various aspects I listed. Boring *and* old != Just old. Difficult difference to understand, I know.

I'm just thankful you mostly isolate your retardation to the gaming forums. You'd be hard-pressed to form a coherent thought on anything worthwhile. Do people a favor and keep your promise to stay here, instead of numbnuts comments like "The media desensitized me!" in the other forums. Seriously sounds like something an angsty teenager would say.

stop posting forever

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You pretty much are a fucking tool, chief.

Word.

I seriously think someone duped you on one of the IP addresses if there was posting going on at this other Legacy guild site(Can I assume Legacy of Steel?). The whole thing has me baffled!

Ok guys... to somewhat place the train back on the tracks here is a more relevant post.... (I think)

From what I have been reading, no one is taking the new server serious and expecting it to plumit within a month.

Xolar and I both have out accounts, had to reset the passwords, I just couldn't remember. I never thought I would reconsier EQ again and as I have posted before, if I ever get a Mac I will definitely give EQMac a run but my job is getting me a MacBook, they say, this Summer but, you know how things like that go.

So what is everyone's predection for the new server? The most common seems for it to go well for probably a month, then a mass exodus, and finally a server merge shortly after.

Really, how often do you need to go around posting this?

Btw Muligan I read your post, but neglected to respond. According to mmogchart(of course, this data could be off since the latest seems to be about 1-2 years old - yet I think we might be able to assume the subscription rate has continued its trend of falling), EQ was dipping below most of major MMORPG franchises, with EQ2 barely surpassing it. It's safe to assume that even EVE Online has more subscribers right now. Though by dead, I more or less meant that its time as the pinnacle of success and standard-bearer for the MMORPG genre has come and gone, not that the servers are in particular danger of shutting down. Though without a doubt in my mind it's also dead in terms of any desirability.

I've posted what you said at length regarding the significance of EQ's numbers around 1999-2003 in other threads. It was a different world, and they deserve credit for having that many back then. However, its innovation of being the first major 3D MMORPG and bringing the standard up to par was stifled by the fact that its gameplay was stale, and the game itself was highly inaccessible to casuals. WoW, of course, has gone to the opposite extreme - though it is indeed in a different era of gaming where a gaming culture is more accepted.

For the sake of understanding the origins, failures, and humble beginnings I personally think videos should be an adequate historical reference without subjecting oneself to the torture, but that's my opinion =p Needless to say, I think it may be a bit overdramatic to suggest that the potential here was "a once in a lifetime, historical journey".

where ever necessary

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I really doubt that it will go well for a month even. There seems to have been a concerted effort to stop bleed from other servers by voting for the least intriguing choice by a number of larger guilds across all servers. It was smart of them.

I wasn't trying to be overdramatic but was intentionally trying to display how meaningful their opportunity was for this 10th anniversary. However, it would be a once in a lifetime journey through history. No one will ever have the opportunity to experience or understand EQ as we did. They'll always have it easy, never facing consequence, or experience competition. MMO communities are extremely lacking because of this and it would have been a great opportunity to re-educate some new players and give former players a chance to get back into a challenging MMO. I think it would have been a great opportunity for SOE as well, there are a lot of major guilds and players in WoW that are bored, WAR is diminishing, AoC is practically dead, LotRO is non-existent, and I can go on and on and EQ did have something to offer. It would have been a great building opportunity to step people through Class and then through each expansion.

One, it's hard to consider EQ torture unless you either make it torture or its all you can personally see in EQ. However, that does not represent how many people feel about EQ or how many people would feel given the correct server. If you think that EQ Classic (through Velious) or a time-locked progression would not have been a hit and received a lot of resubs then you've been out of touch on any major board.

Regardless we are talking in terms of opinions but you can't deny other's opinion just because they do not match your own. EQ is merely dated that is all.. do I play it? No, it widely known I play WAR. I check into EQ time to time merely to see old friends and take advantage or a free month. However, I have realized that PvP games are just too dependent on people and this generation of players are impatient, spoiled, and most of the time MMO ignorant. Until a game captures what EQ created you're going to have WoW and that's all. People will continue to get worse, communities will weaken, and MMO's will back themselves into a corner of slowly meeting player demands that continually move toward an easy and self reliant system.

EQ wasn't torture, we made it torture, but that in itself displays just how much we took and how we always seem to walk back. Ask yourself how many games had that impact on you. I don't believe it was an addiction but it was a challenge and human nature is to either respond and rise above or give up. How many games present that challenge? How many avoid that challenge and you see people just whining, cancelling and going somewhere else? EQ is only dead to some because they do not want to face a challenge, we've been spoiled, that is why you make not have that desirability. However, it does not take 12 hours a day to be successful but it does take community interaction to succeed, people have to strategize, work for access to dungeons, build group and understand roles so unless you just can't stand the dated graphics then you've been spoiled for too long. I say if SOE would have made the right move in choosing the right server (regardless of the poll) many people would have soon remembered and then you would understand the recation and the flaws in your arguement.

Sorry for rambling or whatever, I keep getting interrupted with phone calls and managing guest speakers for classes today. I'll go back over this later and hopefully we can get this back on topic.

I still think you guys are looking at EQ through rose-colored glasses. Sure, WE enjoyed it and can appreciate the challenge that it provided way back when. But do you honestly think a dude who has been playing WoW for 3 years would like playing EQ and suddenly realizing that he can't raid... ever... because Uber_Guild02 kills all of the raid mobs at noon while he is at work? Do you think someone who clears Naxx 25 in 3 hrs would enjoy going to Vex Thall and after 3 hrs see that he has only killed 1 boss? Do you think that key quests and getting flagged for zones will give the people who were spoon-fed so much in WoW a sense of accomplishment, or will it just piss them off that it is "so hard?"

I know that the game changed and things are different now, but I really think that the only ones who will truly appreciate the appeal of EQ are the ones, like us, who were there in the beginning. We didn't know any better. 14-hour raids were normal for us because that's all we knew. I just think many of you are fooling yourselves if you really think EQ "as it was" is what gamers are looking for.

I'm sorry but I don't think this makes any sense.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Makes perfect sense to me. What doesn't make sense?

People will continue to get worse? Communities will weaken? Based on what and relative to what? I'm waiting for someone to tell me that were better off with carburetors instead of fuel injection.

And show me evidence of where Blizzard made a significant design departure relative to their MO as a result of caving to the community.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

So I'm to infer from your point that easier content makes people... better...?

Why would I bother with the second point, when their "MO" can mean absolutely anything from your point of view or mine.

Yeah. I agree completely with that. The trend is moving this way and has been for years. Do you disagree?

My point was that people are constantly stating how much better things were 'back in the day' and is akin to some old guy professing how much better cars were when they were carbureted.


Let's be more specific then, show me an example of when Blizzard significantly changed their design of some facet of the game based on player demands.

_________________
Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

Attunements?