Something we can agree on =p I think both types of dungeons - quick and long/exploratory have their place. I'd like to see a few more BRD dungeons as well. There was so much to fuckin do in BRD, heh.



This and Blackburrow(well, SolB too but still) brought a chuckle out of me. Some of the trains in that zone with the elite gnolls popping up to the top through the tunnel gave me some hilarious memories =) Sometimes people would bring a train up and I had time to get away, other times not. The nice thing about that zone was that there was a longass tunnel which gave people plenty of time to call out their warning macro before it got up to the top where all the lowbies were farming =D

Did you play WoW on a PVP server?

Never to max level. I had friends and guildmates that went to Doomhammer, so I really didn't feel like I had an option unless I wanted to start on one where I didn't know anyone.

Would prefer it, honestly, but I enjoy my current guild and I have a shitload of characters and resources on it already.

That was actually aimed at Fribur, but still, I am sure the "danger" would have been there in droves had you played WoW on a PVP server back in the day. I never did, so I cannot comment on it first-hand (or how it changed once the expansions came out and the two factions coexisted in so many zones). But I've heard plenty of stories (and seen videos) of epic battles while trying to get to Molten Core, etc. Questing while having to keep your eyes open for the opposing faction seems very similar to always being on your guard for fear of trains.

(And yes, I get the irony of talking to Venen about trains in Guk.)

Originally, it was fun. Having my wife with her shaman out in the open to draw out gankers while my rogue was stealthed. That was great....until everyone leveled. After that, with other characters, you didn't even bother to look. You just sucked up the gank the level 60 served you and carried on with your quest. If it happened, you waited til they got bored. Equal levels never really bothered because they were too busy finishing the quest they were on until your faction's level 60 showed up on the way to ZG.

As for raid area ownership. Fun as hell...until you wanted to raid. At that point, it was a matter of numbers and staggered raid times.

PVP in WoW is pointless. It's not danger - at best, it's rock, paper, scissors, DK at equal levels.

For me? I'll take sneaking past Sontalak (initially at least w/o Bard kiting ;P) and getting ready to engage Aaryonar. Man, that was fucking awesome back in the day. Especially when a loss meant you likely lost the boss for the week. Viable today? Nah. But let's not think that WoW actually compares. It's fun, but in an entirely different way. I feel absolutely NO sense of danger in that game. At least, not a north wall Fear break kinda way anyway.

Neesha, I'm not sure PVP is the answer for me in WoW, because dying is so painless it doesn't scare me to be ganked.

I want it to hurt when we die, so there is pressure and stress in trying to stay alive.

I'm with Elessar and Fribur. The sense of danger and accomplishment in EQ made the game that much more exciting.

I can remember my first Fear raid almost like it was yesterday. I remember wiping on the break and Ketsui managing to feign and dragging corpses for 4 hours while people waited in chat just to save rez timers. I remember finally getting the plane mostly clear after 12ish hours of straight raiding and then Sepnir running in and taking the initial DT before we were really ready to go. Cazic was scary. You had to hope and pray you could kill Cazic sometimes before repops started.

I remember the first Hate raid I went on. I remember being sent a tell asking if I wanted to go and meeting up in South Ro for the port up. I remember invising up and porting up and having almost no idea where I was going, just go east to the wall and follow it around to the south. I remember people going the wrong direction and dying and monks and rogues having to drag the corpses back to the raid. Everyone would set up on the wall and wait for the pulls. If a pull ended up being too many, you just stayed up high and prayed that one of the mobs wouldn't aggro. I won Indocilite Legs in a roll against Itz on that raid.

I remember Cicely's Sky Raid. I remember calling my friends who were in Hawaii to wake them up for the raid and it was like 4 AM for them. It had an epic feeling doing a raid that took that long. There was a real sense of accomplishment for everyone involved.

I remember the first Hole raids we ran for Waring's epic weapon. It was a joint effort on the part of several different guilds when competition amongst guilds was fierce.

We may not have had PVP, but the competition between guilds on Lanys was always exciting. You knew if you didn't kill something someone else would. There was no sense of if you didn't get it today, you could just go back into your own instance tomorrow. Throughout the early history of Lanys we had Soul Assassins and Inner Circle/Fire, then later Conquest, then Fallen Legacy, Riders, and Inner Fire.

I remember some idiot in Riders calling ENRAGE on the revamped Cazic and the raid wiping when everyone stopped attacking. Cazic doesn't enrage.

I couldn't tell you something exciting that happened on our first Molten Core raid in WoW. I don't really give a shit who was there. We killed a couple of bosses but there was no wonderful sense of accomplishment. We knew that if we didn't kill them the first time, no one else was going to come in and kill them.

WoW is just a game. EverQuest really was so much more.

Yeah...

When success is pretty much the inevitable, obvious, only predetermined outcome intended by the designers, it removes most of the feeling of achievement when you do succeed.

There's just no real way to "fail" in WoW at anything. (Except arena, I guess. Even then you get points.) Not only does that rob a lot of the accomplishment out of the game, it also breeds extreme impatience and intolerance as everyone expects everything to be absolutely instant gratification in every regard. I've watched raids break up because a tank had to take a 10 minute break. It's just insanity.

Xan I'll second that. EQ was more than some giant chat engine with all the competition from the various guilds for raid mobs. The race was part of the thrill.
I can remember winning my last piece of Indicolite as well. Laying there dead in old PoH and hoping I could rezzed back in before the loot rotted. All the trains in KC and barely being able to fit in SolB.
Brings back memories of a simpler time before instances and WoW. All the times sitting in Seb hoping a camp would open up and when raids started we could all move in and get a camp as people left. Training the exit of Seb if we didn't have a teleport and hoping the golems didn't stun us and have our corpses laying there. Getting a necro to summon corpse for us in Chardok.
In the end the bnet kiddies got a kinder gentler game that alot of people jumped at the chance to play. Not saying WoW is bad it's just too simple and the community other than your guild is too quiet.

What Xan said is it in a nut shell. Again, I don't know if it was the game, the people, or a combination of both but the sad fact is due to WoW's success we'll never see that type of game again.

Much like Xan, I can recall my first raid on just about every major boss. I think my favorite was going for Lord Yelanik for the first time (server first as well). I think at one time we had over 100 people trying to make it work but in the end a much smaller number succeeded. Watching Sepnir run into mobs was always fun. Every night you knew when Itz or whoever said "Do NOT go passed me!" that you would see a little gnome run straight into something and die.

Plane raids will always be special, especially early on. Also, you can't replace Vox and Naggy. I can roll off names all day, who they were, some their real names, etc. but now, like I said in the other topic, I couldn't tell you anything about any other MMO, even in EQ2 or WAR (which I played more so than any other MMO since EQ)

I think I feel worse that I haven't seen (and don't think I will in the near future) a group of people experiencing much of what we experience. WoW, XBOX Live, etc. are all contributors to the death of tough love gaming. People will not bear some of the faults of EQ but, just like in life it's the hard and unfair that brings people together to overcome what seems to be the impossible. No matter if it was bugged, broken, camped, or an opposing guild challenged we did it anyway or waited it out.

Fun times, tough times, but fun never the less.

I vividly remember like 90 people on the server, all non-Soul Assassins, banding together and trying to kill Vox. Binding in that "safe" hall, dying, going back and memming one DD spell and just trying to chain it naked until another death, repeating while seeing Vox constantly healing itself. We failed that night, I died like 7 times.... but it was one of the most fun times I had in game.

Or the time when TSO finally took down Dozekar our first time after probably a good 20 or so attempts. I think it was Barrel, probably the fourth best geared warrior in the guild, stepping in after Muros and Trakceles and Tamorfin (iirc) dying immediately and tanking an unslowed Dozekar for like 40% of his health until we could finally get a slow to land... it was near miraculous in a game like that. Just the success, that achievement was one of our guild's great moments.

And of course that Plane of Sky raid was something else. Friday night, all day Saturday, all day Sunday... no game would ever consider a raid that would encompass an entire weekend nowadays. That was such a wonderful time, and so many good people were part of that great weekend.

Everquest, for me at least, has gone from a memory filled quest to just another game. Sometimes I get bored and don't play... sometimes I want to play and do so. But it no longer has the emotional tie with the people that it used to- I raid with cool people, the encounters are fun, but it isn't old school Lanys. And I found that as long as I remember that and I just play Everquest for what it is (a game) and not an emotional ride, then I find I can play EQ.

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Cicely I'm sure you remember the Shei raid. Where I killed Funnies by giving Dral divine aura. Some of my fondest memories of you giving "The Speech" and hearing the groans from the rest of the guild.

That must have been a painful guild to be in between Esto, Casu and Cicely. Must have been non stop smoke up the ass.

Not really Givin there were alot of folks in there I wanted to be guilded with. Like Hess, Muros, Sything, Cicely, Guurn, Tamorfin, and a bunch more.

Giv / Wakka - from what I experienced, you're both correct. Some serious political BS, although they'd never admit it. But after I left TSO for Visions, wow - the things friends still guilded in TSO told me were said about me in guildchat by the leader / officers out of spite was pretty pathetic. Esto was the main culprit here, but there were others.
The same happened to Kilwen I believe, when he left TSO and joined the Ranger Mafia in Visions, although not to the same degree.

But yeah, some really good players in there too that I miss. Muros, Poochin, Xorph, and so many others were some of the most honourable players I encountered in EQ.

TSO had great people, but yeah. Leaving the guild started a chain-reaction of accusations. People took it personally, regardless of why or how you'd leave.

I really liked everyone in that guild, including Esto and Casu/Darnell. But there was a tiny group of "casuals" that resisted any attempts at making the guild take raiding more seriously. The vocal, non-contributing minority.. just totally dominate some guilds. It's crazy.

Most of TSO felt quite comfortable with me, knew how "well" I played my magician (which it obviously isn't that hard to play this game, but there are some attentive things that separate some), and overall liked me. It was most of the higher end guild members (such as Givin) who had a beef with me. Shrug. I don't know why, don't really care why. Besides, most who did/had a beef with me aren't really top shelf quality people anyways. Good EQ players sure, but not good people.

Kamukuk did not like me. O noz. I am sad.

TSO was an excellent guild. The core group of players were mature, responsible, and we just got along. There was a bad apple or two sure, but for the most part it truely was a second family to me.

And the speech thing... lol. Forgot about that till you brought it up Wakka. Admit it- most of the time it was just a dumb thing... but once every so often it was pretty funny Yeah it was a silly thing, but I guess I would much rather be remembered as giving guild speeches when someone was invited than, I dunno, being on the shit list or training guilds or making racial slurs in /ooc or something to that effect.

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Wife and kids are on Spring break, leaving me all alone at home. So being bored I reinstalled EQ, subb'ed up to the current expansion and logged in.

Fuck-me, there is so much stuff in this game now I don't even know where to begin.

I hade pretty good gear when I stopped last time at 67. I was able to completely refit armor that is 3x as good as what I had for less than 20kp. Cool veterans benefits too, I like the adventurer potions and shit.

Anyone have a spot for a 67 Epic 1.0 Zerker!

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

Which server are you on? The Lanys merge server or did you movelog to another server when they did the merge?

Will talk too you tonight Khan. A bezerker is a rarity now and most guilds will go out of there way to get a well played one.

From what I can tell, the difference between a good berserker and a bad one is the ability to live through a raid mob until the raid mob dies. Unfortunately most berserkers are either poor and die when the mob is at 90... or they just turn attack on and then AFK and build up aggro and die.

But I will admit I have never played the class so I am sure there might be more than just that; however it seems to be a common theme for many berserkers I have seen in my time.

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Woah... now let's not get ahead of ourselves here and count our chickens before the eggs have hatched...

You really need to learn to pick your battles.

I'm sure Cuc is making a fair assumption that Khan knows how to play EQ. For the most part, Everquest is Everquest. You read a few things, ask a few questions, and apply previous knowledge to your class.

Who knows, maybe you were just kidding Sky but anything, I mainly wanted to say Hi to Khan, Cuc, and Giv.

Before bezerkers most warriors who weren't tanking were at best a mediocre dps on raids. And with Khan having been a warrior before I'm sure he knows how to avoid aggro. Besides it can't be any worse than rogues who would generate insane amounts of aggro to have the mob turn at the last second on enrage. Or wizzies chain nuking just so they could get summoned.

Honestly that a lot of times had more to do with the MT turning the mob and then laughing their ass off as all the rogues and afk people die to enrage.

Yeah, I am on 7th Hammer.

Well thanks for the props Sky! Considering I was the 2nd Berserker server wide to get his Epic 1.0, I think I know how to play him. Well, DID know how to play him, LOL.

Cucu, I missed you last night bud, toons name is Tossinem Atcha in case you forgot.

Rulek will be on tonight with his Cleric and tier 5 Merc so I should be able to get a few levels this evening.

I did go to tactics last night and get my Fabled Pet Proc'ing weapon, now to just get to 75...

Clancy, call my cell phone, slacker.

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

I should be on after 8:00 est tonight.

i was teasing/making a joke. i think everyone (almost at least) around here was a good player in eq.

How out of their way? Are we talking hand job with lotion or full bank access out of their way?

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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -Henry Louis Mencken
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VEGETARIAN -Noun (vej-i-tair-ee-uhn): Ancient tribal slang for the village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride.

In the wise words of Kirban: If you aren't getting summoned, you're doing shit DPS.

Funnily enough on a raid. I hit defensive and incite during enrage to take aggro off the MT because of afk people. Nothing like killing all the rogues and beastlords off. The MT said I wasn't goin to be able yank aggro away and we made a friendly wager on it.

reported

Berserkers seem to have gotten shafted in the past expansions. As in... they were so overpowered DPS wise that nothing was really added to them to bring them in line with other melee. Many were upset about it and are now gone.

As funny as it sounds, nearly every berserker I see pulls aggro almost all the time. Whether it be raid mob or group mob, it is almost comical. I am not sure if they are just trying to maximize DPS, but... you cannot DPS when you are dead lol.

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I 3 box a cleric, SK and wizard atm and my brother plays a bezerker and I've never had an issue with agro and he definitely doesn't half ass his dps.

My wizard on the other hand...jfc I swear they have + innate hate or something and I still need a level until I get twincast.

Its nice I can finally 3 box all the tier 5 named without a slower but it is a fucking tight race. They definitely amped up the damage output. I came back just for some part time fun but in another month or so I should have all 3 chars full tier 5 so I guess it will be time to test the raid waters again....

How is SoD raid content for challenge? Not sure which class to go raid with, I assume SK's are off tank/kite tanks and clerics....blah. Wizard dps seems completely retarded at the moment and raid BP is 100% focus to my big bomb.

One good thing about EQ now is you can level so fast to start with when you do hotzones combined with DS potions/buffs. We leveled one of basically every class to at least 68ish so we could put rot gear on them for the future. We are down to being able to get 1-65 in a night. Sadly SoD seems to give shit for exp compared to just go rape training valdeholm.

Its still fun to go kill raid bosses that used to rape face in raids now with just us 2 2boxing. We've done most of Anguish and have 7 chars with epic 2.0's which sadly still age pretty well depending on the class or at least the clicky aspect (cleric epic 2.0 = blessing from the heavens).

10 years later back to where I started.../wrist. Actually ran into xorphious a few weeks back on stromm heh. I'm just biding my time until VG turns around !!!!! (/sigh). Maybe after I get bored of this waiting for expansion I'll go back to WAR, server mergers is probably a great thing for that game. If FFXII opened a new NA server I'd give that a try in a heart beat!

Yeah, I would definitely go back to FFXI if I had a perma team that was on every night. The challenge after the changes sounds about just right. The exp to level post 55 doesn't look like a mountain anymore. Still the sad truth of it is, you have to hit it every day with a good chunk of time or you don't get anywhere.

What. the. fuck.

That's sad to me.

OR, you could casually game and get 65 in about 2 weeks (i.e. 3 days /played).

1-65 in a "night" is probably a 12-hour marathon PLing session using xp potions, vet xp reward, etc.
Yay for level 65 Wizards with 12 channeling / evocation skill.

You may have misunderstood my dismay. I'm sad because it's gotten that easy to level in EQ, not because of how long it took him to power through.

No, I knew what you were getting at Fribur. And yes, it is painfully easy these days, but maybe that's a good thing. How many of us would have re-examined EQ after all of these years if we had to start over and level slowly? I sure as hell wouldn't have
Having lost my Ranger, I had to completely start over. And if xp was as it was previously, there's no way in hell I'd have gone through that again.

PS - question for anyone who's checked out FV server. It seems pretty cool in that 99% of stuff isn't nodrop but is tradeable there. So you could level something fugly like a halfling warrior (sorry Biwin), but use a dark elf or iksar illusion mask if you like. On the downside, I saw a lot of fabled gear on the bazaar, so I'd imagine certain "hot commodity" items would be perma-farmed to sell and you could very well end up having to buy most of your gear instead of being able to camp it.
Has anyone else experienced that server and have any thoughts/opinions of it?

Somehow I don't think having 12 evocation/channeling would be a huge concern to a wizard who power-leveled up to 65 in one night =p

I never quite got those complaints about powerleveling. I mean, the hard part is done.

Too funny, how many people screamed bloody murder that WoW was too easy to level in yet the fabled EQ is now no different.

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Kuwen Furyblades
Hunter of Memento Reejeryn
Champion of Faydark

The difference is in EQ there's a lot of high level content, where in WoW pre-expansion (cause that's when you are refering to I think), there was not.

Good point, yeah.
Although, to be fair, there were people PLing alts to 50+ in a few days back when I quit, several years ago.
So, things have just sped up a bit. 65 is the new 50+, that's all.

But I do see your point. If this were my first EQ experience ever, I'd miss out on a LOT of zones due to the speed at which one can level now. But as most of us are veterans, it's a bit of a different story with us.

Well it might be easy to get to 65, sure. However considering 85 is the new max level, and your character really isn't relevant until you have *at minimum* 500 AA under your belt... that part still takes a bit to get to.

I never played WoW, but I do know that there is some thing that says if you have a 'x' level character that you can start a Death Knight (?) at like lvl 65 or something. To me that is the way to go if you are a game veteran... unless you want to be lvl 52 and solo Vox/Nagafen for the hell of it.

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Lvl 55, 80 is the max. Why haven't you played WoW? Jeez.

what

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Shh, just smile and nod, it'll be over soon.

Sorry for confusing, will try and type slower and write better.

From what I have heard, if you have a high level character in WoW... you can start a Death Knight I believe at lvl 65. Therefore bypassing the "grind" of 1-64. In my opinion if you have a high level character, that is the best way to create/start alternate characters- skip all the lower levels and make it easier/faster for that character to reach max level and then be effective in current max level content/raids/etc. However you should have the choice if you want to skip level 1-64 if you are a veteran and start at lvl 1 so that if you want to experience that content (say solo'ing Nagafen in EQ at 52) then you can do so.

Of course, if you are brand new to the game you should not have that option. It should only be available for either max level characters, or you have to have 2 max level, or a certain amount of days /played in order to be allowed to start at lvl 65 or whatever level it is.

Hopefully that is less confusing to read.

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I said you start at 55, which is what you start at. That's still 25 levels.



That's how it is.

I wish Cicely would stop talking about WoWcraft forever.

I still feel the same way. EQ making it easier doesn't make me want to go back whatsoever. I would much prefer that WoW was harder to level in, though I think also since it's geared towards casuals in some respects it works better for the game itself.

In much the same way it'd be weird to have a Korean grindfest MMO that took a day or two to level up. It just doesn't fit quite right.

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^-- this.

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World of Warcraft: Kallaystra, Gweila, Steakumn, Tarathia [ Feathermoon/Horde ]

You guys are so hateful.

I agree with Bovinity.

i have high standards when it comes to dead internet forums for dead internet games

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Randy your old.

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"Creating Havoc and Pie Since 2001!"
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His old what?

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