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 Post subject: Seattle Cop punches Teen
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:52 PM 
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I don't get where people are getting the attitude that they don't need to listen to a cop or authority for that matter. If a cop tells you to come with me you say "yes sir/mama", its that easy, do what your told how your told and there will be no issues. I know that there have been some "bad" cops but it seam like people tend to be pushing all cop to using force then trying to sue them.

my 2 cents

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:06 PM 
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So ready to submit to authority.

If a cop asks me to come with him, he had better be able to provide a reasonable, articulable explanation, otherwise my only response is "am I free to go?"

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:13 PM 
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Vanamar wrote:
So ready to submit to authority.

If a cop asks me to come with him, he had better be able to provide a reasonable, articulable explanation, otherwise my only response is "am I free to go?"


The cop said your getting a ticket for jaywalking come with me to my car. Don't ya think you should just go?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:21 PM 
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when did he say that? I haven't found it yet.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:34 PM 
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right here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and ... 336613.stm

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:36 PM 
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and here
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/421842_cop16.html

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:02 PM 
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Good for him. That was seconds from being a mob action on that cop. Life in the fucking era of cameras everywhere.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:03 PM 
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Vanamar wrote:
So ready to submit to authority.

If a cop asks me to come with him, he had better be able to provide a reasonable, articulable explanation, otherwise my only response is "am I free to go?"


You big scary rebel you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:26 PM 
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I've watched the scene twice now, and I don't have a strong opinion, but it really seems like the punch was unnecessary to me.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:29 PM 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:37 PM 
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This may come as a surprise to anyone who has followed our discussions on cops and their tactics, but I'm actually siding with the cop on this one, based purely on what I see in that video. Although, I am not entirely certain the best reaction to the other girl meddling should have been swinging a fist, it is clear she WAS interfering with a cop doing his job. She wanted to dance, she got to dance.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:51 PM 
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Fribur wrote:
I've watched the scene twice now, and I don't have a strong opinion, but it really seems like the punch was unnecessary to me.


Until the one has one arm, the other has the other arm and some random dude is finally motivated to get involved, takes the sidearm and shoots the cop. With as much trouble as he was having holding the one thrasher, if that other one grabbed on and held on he'd be fucked.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:28 PM 
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When you start shoving the cop, you better count yourself lucky you got punched in the face and not fucking tazed.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:56 PM 
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Thank god the cops arrest the jaywalker criminals. The world is once again a safer place!


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 Post subject: Seattle Teen shoves cop.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:19 PM 
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They wouldn't have been arrested if they hadn't ignored the police officers orders and then physically resisted him and shoved him.

It's a dangerous street, so much so that the city invested in a pedestrian bridge and the school requested the presence of an officer to make sure the students used it.

I don't care if some dumb kid wants to get hit by cars but you don't have the right to shove police officers if you disagree with them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:38 AM 
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She deserved it. You don't fight with cops like that. She's lucky she didn't get tazed or even shot.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:45 AM 
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Also the scene she caused put that cop in real danger. Any of those people could have unholstered his gun.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:54 AM 
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I can see all of your points, but I also want you to consider this-- the cop clearly made the situation MORE tense when he threw the punch. When he threw the punch he is lucky someone standing there didn't go, "that fucker just punched my sister! I'm going to shoot him." To me, it seems like he could have let go of the first girl much earlier, which could have defused the situation.

Just a thought from my perspective. Again, I don't really have a strong opinion on this one.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:28 AM 
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The punch seemed unnecessary but deserved. Anyone else wondering why this cop couldn't seem to restrain the first woman to begin with and seemed to have no clue what he was doing?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:58 AM 
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Probably because a lot of cops are undertrained?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:00 AM 
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Larreth wrote:
Vanamar wrote:
So ready to submit to authority.

If a cop asks me to come with him, he had better be able to provide a reasonable, articulable explanation, otherwise my only response is "am I free to go?"


You big scary rebel you.


It's not about rebellion, it's about my rights as an American citizen.

As soon as the cop tells me why he is detaining me (and you can be assured, just about any time a policeman on the street wants to talk to you, you're being detained), I'll gladly comply with his requests within reason.

Once you've had your rights violated by over-eager police, you'll come around to my side.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:06 AM 
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There is a big difference from what you're talking about though Van and what happened in this situation (allegedly).

Undertrained is definitely part of it, at first though I just figured he was trying to not hurt her. The real incompetence is when the other girl gets involved. It he didn't know a few simple take downs to control the first girl (no matter how squirmy she is) after punching the other one then he should be suspended until further training can be done.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:11 AM 
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Wouldn't he be more likely to lose control of the situation by punching her? Up until that point as a bystander I wouldn't give a thought to stepping in, after the punch, well that makes the blood boil, cop or no.

Though this one, if accurate is basically criminal.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm

(If courthouse news is the same as our Sunday Sport then apologies)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:12 PM 
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The greatest thing about this story? Last week the Seattle Times reported both ladies involved had publicly apologized to the officer for putting him in danger and admitted their wrong doing.

And for all of you bitching, that cop did exactly as he was trained to do in that situation. Both their attitudes was making it dangerous for him.

Some of you guys are un-fucking believable when it comes to police officers. Most times I'd agree with you on they push the limits of their authority and go too far with a lot of suspects.

Not this time. Those bitches could have gotten him killed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:23 PM 
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I fuckin hate cops and I sided with them on this one. He's just a little guy and he was having trouble controlling them, and they were fucking with him.. I woulda tazed the shit out of both of them had it been me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:29 PM 
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You're so tough! So manly!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:17 PM 
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Yeah, that's the point he was making.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:43 PM 
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 5:13 PM 
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Wow... I must be watching a different video than everyone but Fribur. The cop seemed to completely mishandle this situation. He put his life in a stupidly dangerous situation. I don't get it at all. This should have never come to a punch. He doesn't protect his perimeter. He engages multiple people. He then takes over 2 minutes to secure a teenage girl?

It's pretty easy - he requests her to stop or whatever, she refuses, he tases her. Case Closed.

Of course, part of the problem is the same bleeding hearts that are complaining now would also complain about a tasing. This is a great example of why tasing is necessary.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:40 PM 
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Quote:
he requests her to stop or whatever, she refuses, he tases her.


Incorrect usage. A taser (nonlethal) is a replacement for a gun (lethal). They apply in the same situations. One is an alternative to the other. You don't get to taser someone just because they resist arrest, or you'd see a whole lot more of protesters doing passive resistance being tasered. And it is also why when you DO see those situations, there are court cases.

This is why it is acceptable to tazer someone that refuses to exit their car in a correct manner (can't assess the situation/possible weapon, etc, so a gun WOULD be drawn) vs this situations (willful teenagers being bratty messes) where a gun WOULDN'T be drawn, but stronger tactics to take them down, would.

Once the other girl got involved, I think it would have gotten to be a grey area on the tazer, because you start to get into potential mob situations.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:01 PM 
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Last I checked they were used in place of pepper spray, not guns.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:29 PM 
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You don't get sued for using pepper spray like you do for using a tazer.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:22 PM 
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I suppose it would depend on what type of pepper spray you were talking about.

Military grade O.C. is 21%, high end police O.C. is 18% and Civilian is less than or equal to 10%.. I have been sprayed with military grade oil base and civilian grade water base O.C. I'd have to say I'd rather go through the tazer lane again than go through military spray ever, ever again.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:22 PM 
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Well, Tasers aren't really a replacement for a gun. If someone else draws a gun or other weapon that creates a deadly situation, the cop uses a gun. Tasers are really meant to be used when someone is doing something that probably won't lead to death, but could be extremely dangerous. When the second girl interfered, this situation definitely met that criteria. The two girls together (or any number of bystanders) could have over-powered that cop.

The cop here is in a really bad situation. If someone resists and you taser them, you're bad. If you rough up a girl, you're bad. You certainly don't just let them walk away. So - what do you do?

Bottom line is, the women were in the wrong here, and the cop was probably fearful of being too aggressive initially. He should have dropped and cuffed the girl a lot sooner and a lot harder.

Either way, the whole scene makes me sad.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:42 PM 
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And this is due...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:41 PM 
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Watching that made me want to shoot everyone around there for being idiots. I mean you are ATTACKING the cop whos trying to detain someone. WHAT THE FUCK do you think is going to happen?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:47 PM 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:45 PM 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:55 PM 
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:35 AM 
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:37 AM 
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I am not sure how some of you were raised, but having been raised by my (ex) step-father who was a deputy sheriff...if I so much as made a smirk at a law enforcement officer, I should EXPECT to get the shit kicked out of me. how can so many of you have such hatred toward those who are doing their best to uphold the law and protect our citizens? /boggle

Yes, there are corrupt police officers. Yes, I am sure one or two of you have had your "rights violated" by one. However, this is not the norm and you should be more adult about how you view law enforcement as a whole. Having disdain for every cop out there because you had a bad interaction with one is akin to hating all (pick your favorite race) because one fucked decided to with you. You should not hold the actions of one foul individual against an entire sect of individuals (unless they are all doing the same misdeed). Whatever happened to judging each person by his or her actions...as many of you consistently preach here?

As far as this video and the cop's actions goes, I absolutely support this guy punching that chick in the face. You can "what-if" this situation to death....ohhh, someone coulda pulled the cop's gun or oooooh, that cop could have been skull stomped by an angry mob. Please! law-abiding citizens don't interfere with that kind of shit. They do what that video taker did and shoot the video so there is proof of what happened; they don't join in on the mob mentality and beat the fuck out of a cop who is simply trying to do his or her job. Those two women have zero respect for the law or those who enforce it and they both deserved a punch in the face for getting physical with the cop. I'm sorry, but if you simply do as you are told and get a "talkin' too" for jay walking (or even a ticket for that matter), then that is all that should have happened. The instant you put your hands on a cop or act in a threatening manner to one, on ANY level, you deserve exactly what is coming to you, which will more than likely involve getting a night stick, a taser, a fist to the face, or possibly even a bullet in your body depending on the level of aggression you impart upon the cop.

Simply put - You have to be the biggest fucking idiot on the planet to act aggressively to a law enforcement officer and expect NOT to be manhandled, at a minimum.

It is sad state of affairs that there are people that have zero respect for those who protect and serve. Sure, go and hate on every individual that is corrupt and is a dick about their job when they interact with YOU. But there is no reason to hate on law enforcement officers as a whole who by and large are simply trying to keep the peace and do their job. If you fuck up, you should expect to be dealt with. What makes any of you think differently? Follow Chris Rock's video advice and you pretty much cannot go wrong. If it does go wrong and and they fuck you up without just cause, hope someone is filming your event and enjoy your million dollar lawsuit when it all comes out in the wash if they were in the wrong. Regardless, most law enforcement officers will pay you the same respect you pay them. Don't be a dick and they will more than likely not be a dick to you.

No, really, it is that simple.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:52 AM 
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"Don't Be A Dick" is one of the rules I live my life by (now...), it hasn't stopped 90% of police I've interacted with from not being dicks anyway.

However, there are lots of issues with law enforcement in Metro Atlanta (mostly out in the burbs) not knowing (or not caring) about the laws they're supposed to be enforcing. Once hiring/education/training standards for policemen in Georgia are up to par, I'll stop complaining about them.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:03 PM 
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Bello I see no one in this thread that has "hatred" for the police. Don't be a dumbass.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:30 PM 
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Fribur wrote:
Bello I see no one in this thread that has "hatred" for the police. Don't be a dumbass.


dont see where he is being a dumb ass. hes just stating the obvious. The cop should of tased the bitch trying the get in the way and maced the bitch who was resisting.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:33 AM 
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the "just because you don't hand over your rights wholesale to anyone wearing a badge means you're an asshole" argument is beyond boring. We've had it a billion times. You can continue to do what you do, I'll continue to do what I do. I'll just be a little more secure in the fact that when I *do* run into one of those asshole cops, they know full well that I know the score and will call them out on their bullshit every single time.

And guess what, I've still not been tazed. :p

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:55 AM 
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If you want to "call out" a cop every time you see one, whatever. That's cool. You can be the big rebel and all that.

I'll assume you won't be physically assaulting them, though. Soooo, all kinda moot for this discussion.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:56 AM 
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I don't call out cops unless they harass me.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:04 PM 
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Some people must have terrible "luck" with cops or something. I've never once been harassed by a cop without first doing something that said, "Hey, I'm suspicious" myself. =O


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:11 PM 
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The thing is, what you consider "being suspicious" and what police consider "being suspicious" may be similar to the venn diagram of "times when I am happy / times when I am wearing pants" (http://www.scribd.com/doc/2523362/Best- ... agram-Ever)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:06 PM 
Froaaak!!!
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You can be the big rebel and all that.


Knowing your rights and when you still HAVE them, despite what authority figures may want you to believe in any given situation, is not being rebellious and trying to overthrow authority. It's just being smart. Sort of the same idea behind knowing how react to hydroplaning when driving your car, long before you ever experience it yourself. "Be prepared" is not just a boy scout moto.

Or to further illustrate my point:

The whole "rebel against authority" argument almost always comes from those that seem very unconsciously desperate to prove what a good boy they are, the precious little lapdog, obeying without question in hope of praise or a treat. You're a good boy, yes you are!

See? I can play too. It is very easy to simplify the other side down to the most dismissive stance possible. This board is a painful exercise in it almost daily. At the end of the day, you have a point (don't assault cops unless you want to tango) and I have a point (I'm not going to just blindly do whatever a cop says, when I know they are asking for something they have no right to ask). It has nothing to do with rebellion or sheep. Just different levels of what sort of intrusion into our rights as citizens of this nation we are willing to tolerate in our own lives by the authority figures we may or may not trust.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:54 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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Yeah, I get all that. What I'm wondering - as I said in my last post - is why there are a fair number of people on this board who talk as though they're harassed by cops on a very regular basis.

I can count on one hand the times cops have stopped me for something, and every time it was because I was doing something I honestly shouldn't have. But then you get people here hinting at some kind of epidemic of police harassment against them, and I can't help but wonder if you're either just paranoid/embellishing or if you're rolling around playing "Fuck tha Police" all day. =O


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:43 PM 
Froaaak!!!
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But then you get people here hinting at some kind of epidemic of police harassment against them


Again, you're taking things to extremes.

How many times does X need to happen before it is too many? For many people, all it takes is once and they are forever on guard.

For me, my "them" IS pretty regularly "harassed" by cops, still to this day. Sometimes to the point of coma. So you're ALWAYS ready for it. Not all cops are bad, but making sure you are prepared for when you encounter one is not anti-establishment.... It's just smart in my situation, and anyone else's, as far as I am concerned.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:58 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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I don't know if I'm taking it to extremes so much as calling it like I see it. There's a few people - yourself included - that start up on the, "I'm not taking shit from cops!" thing every time the topic of police comes up. I guess it just leaves an impression after a few times!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:10 PM 
Froaaak!!!
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Actually, I believe my statement was "I am on the cop's side in this incident". Nice try though!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:32 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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Yes, and that statement was preceded by: "This may come as a surprise to anyone who has followed our discussions on cops and their tactics."


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:50 PM 
Froaaak!!!
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And I have to make clarifications like that because people like you can't differentiate being prepared and knowing my rights from somehow saying "fuck you" and spitting in the face of every cop I happen to bump into.

In other words, you continue to be the limiting force of the discussion actually going anywhere.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:34 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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You keep speaking as though I'm afflicted with this raving madness where I accuse you of insane atrocities against every police officer you see. Odd. Maybe you're a bit too defensive about it?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:48 AM 
Froaaak!!!
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Or I could, you know, just be reading your own words:

Me:
Quote:
I'll just be a little more secure in the fact that when I *do* run into one of those asshole cops, they know full well that I know the score and will call them out on their bullshit every single time.


You:
Quote:
If you want to "call out" a cop every time you see one, whatever. That's cool. You can be the big rebel and all that.


Me:
Quote:
Knowing your rights and when you still HAVE them, despite what authority figures may want you to believe in any given situation, is not being rebellious and trying to overthrow authority. It's just being smart. Sort of the same idea behind knowing how react to hydroplaning when driving your car, long before you ever experience it yourself. "Be prepared" is not just a boy scout moto.


You:
Quote:
I can't help but wonder if you're either just paranoid/embellishing or if you're rolling around playing "Fuck tha Police" all day. =O


Me:
Quote:
How many times does X need to happen before it is too many? For many people, all it takes is once and they are forever on guard.


You:
Quote:
There's a few people - yourself included - that start up on the, "I'm not taking shit from cops!" thing every time the topic of police comes up



Which, basically, just illustrates that you're not even trying to have a conversation or read what I'm actually saying. You've decided that I am rude to every officer I meet and therefor must be "asking for" whatever I get. You weren't even trying.

As I said originally, this conversation is boring. We've had it a billion times in the last 10 years and I shouldn't have even bothered. Call me a sucker. It was clear what kind of person you are in this debate from your first reply, so I'm going to take my own advice and I'm done.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:11 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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Or you could have just taken the easy road 10 posts ago and said, "Yes, I do say that whenever the topic of police comes up." which would be the truth. Instead you had to sit there trying to quasi-deny it and make it sound like I was accusing you of being some crazy sociopath.

But ok, you're done. Bye!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:00 PM 
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Vanamar wrote:
"Don't Be A Dick" is one of the rules I live my life by (now...), it hasn't stopped 90% of police I've interacted with from not being dicks anyway.

However, there are lots of issues with law enforcement in Metro Atlanta (mostly out in the burbs) not knowing (or not caring) about the laws they're supposed to be enforcing. Once hiring/education/training standards for policemen in Georgia are up to par, I'll stop complaining about them.
In all seriousness... are you interacting with cops a lot? In the last 15 years of my life, I think I've been pulled over 3 times, gotten 2 warnings, and 1 ticket. Other than that... I don't think I've even spoken to a cop. Wait... there was one time I called them because a random car was parked in my driveway. They were nice.

What are people doing where they're constantly dealing with the po-po?


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