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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:07 PM 
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Clearly, she was walking around school picking fights by being a lesbian.

Looks like Frib really hit a nerve when calling out daddy's boy.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:23 PM 
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That's the point I was trying to make earlier, but Orme said it a lot better than I did. Bravo.

And yeah, Khan, looks like Fribur hit pretty close to home there.

In fact, this part:

Quote:
Learn to comprehend what you read you fucking waist of sperm.


Is pretty funny.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:57 PM 
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haha ok Bovinity you made me laugh out loud for the first time in a while on these forums :p

Quote:
And you still don't get it do you dumb-ass. I hope all the teachers at your school aren't as stupid as you seem to be. She was allowed to go you fucking moron. No one ever said she could not attend, yet you still seem to think that she was banned for being gay. She wasn't banned from anything.


As far as I can tell, this is simply false, sir. I asked you already where you got the idea that she was allowed to go. Read the news stories and stop assuming that because she is a lesbian she must be a drama whore and that the school did nothing wrong.

Here, I'll do your work for you, since you are clearly unwilling to look for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 10887.html

Quote:
McMillen first approached school officials about bringing her girlfriend in December, and again in February. Same-sex prom dates had been banned in the past, but she had hoped school officials would grant her request.

"I thought maybe the policy had been in place for a different reason," McMillen testified at a hearing on the ACLU lawsuit. "I wanted to let them know how it made me feel. I felt like I couldn't go to the prom."

She was told two girls couldn't attend together and she wouldn't be allowed to wear a tuxedo, court documents show.


Here's another news article:

http://wcco.com/national/lesbian.prom.c ... 56168.html

Quote:
The school board said it violated their policy against same-sex couples at the dance.


Here's another news article this one from your favorite spin outlet, Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/06/mi ... lls-short/

Quote:
Senior prom fell far short of the rite of passage Constance McMillen was hoping for when she began a legal battle to challenge a ban on same-sex dates.


Quote:
Her case drew a national spotlight after she and the American Civil Liberties Union challenged an Itawamba County School District rule that banned same-sex prom dates


Bold emphasis mine.

Do I have to put more? She was banned because she was a lesbian and wanted to bring a date.

This post topic is right on. Hateful intolerant idiots indeed.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:02 PM 
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So she wasn't banned, same-sex couples were banned.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:15 PM 
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Seriously? I figured Khan would come up with that silliness, but I didn't expect it from you, heh.

As the courts already ruled, it was unconstitutional discrimination based on her sexuality.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:26 PM 
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:35 PM 
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"That young lady was told she could not bring a same-sex date to the prom, but she herself was not explicitly banned for being gay."

Forgive me for arguing semantics.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:37 PM 
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:37 PM 
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:38 PM 
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"The young man was told he could not bring a black date, but was himself not explicitly banned for being black."

Come on, man. Just stop that nonsense.


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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:13 PM 
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Quote:
She was banned because she was a lesbian and wanted to bring a date.


Wow, you just don't get it do you. She wasn't banned from anything. She was told she could attend on numerous occasions. Even told her girl friend could go. I guess the real meat of the story escapes you when skimming headlines. She even says in her Ellen interview the VP said they could attend but inappropriate displays of PDA would not be permitted and they would be asked to leave if it made any of the other students uncomfortable. From the looks of the pics from the other dance I don't think it would have even been an issue. The ONLY thing she was told she could NOT do and not be admitted entrance was wearing a Tux. Thats it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:55 PM 
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Maybe you're the one not getting it khan.

"you can come but you can't come with your girlfriend"

How is that at all not discrimination against her because she's gay?

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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:57 PM 
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:51 PM 
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Quote:
Wow, you just don't get it do you. She wasn't banned from anything. She was told she could attend on numerous occasions. Even told her girl friend could go. I guess the real meat of the story escapes you when skimming headlines. She even says in her Ellen interview the VP said they could attend but inappropriate displays of PDA would not be permitted and they would be asked to leave if it made any of the other students uncomfortable. From the looks of the pics from the other dance I don't think it would have even been an issue. The ONLY thing she was told she could NOT do and not be admitted entrance was wearing a Tux. Thats it.


So all those news stories are reporting it incorrectly? This is your stance?


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:07 AM 
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Khan already posted the original response by the school. She could go and she could bring her same sex date, but there were conditions of no tux, no slow dancing and she had to leave if anyone felt uncomfortable with her there. I don't know why all the news sources are ignoring that, maybe because it isn't as good of a headline? The not being allowed to wear a tux part is weak, it was simply the school policy, and that dress code doesn't sound discriminatory to me.

Unfortunately, the headlines don't even need to be juiced to still be discrimination though. Just allowing her to go with her same sex date isn't enough. There shouldn't be rules like you can't slow dance, or if anyone there feels uncomfortable with your presence you have to leave. Since everyone likes using the black comparisons, would it be ok to say blacks were allowed to sit anywhere on the bus...unless it makes someone uncomfortable, then they would have to move to the back again?

It is wrong to put one persons civil rights in the hands of how others around them feel about them.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:28 AM 
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Quote:
Khan already posted the original response by the school. She could go and she could bring her same sex date, but there were conditions of no tux, no slow dancing and she had to leave if anyone felt uncomfortable with her there. I don't know why all the news sources are ignoring that, maybe because it isn't as good of a headline? The not being allowed to wear a tux part is weak, it was simply the school policy, and that dress code doesn't sound discriminatory to me.


As you pointed out, this is still a very obvious source of discrimination, if it is true. The problem is, I can do google searches and find all kinds of news stories that say she was banned, but I haven't yet found any news stories that say what you are saying here. Could you give me a source? I guess I'm just google challenged.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:17 AM 
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My only source is what Khan stated earlier in the thread (I think it was his 2nd post). My point was that even if it as he described, it is still discrimination. I didn't intend to post it as factual information, I have no idea if it is accurate or just spin.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:22 AM 
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Watch her video on Youtube with Ellen. She says straight up what she was told what she could and couldn't do. And that was before the court hearing I believe.

Here, it wasn't hard to find this either. Just stop skimming the headlines...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/03/11/mi ... index.html
Quote:
At the center of the lawsuit is a memorandum from the school to students, dated February 5, which states that prom dates must be of the opposite sex.

Also, when McMillen expressed a desire to wear a tuxedo to the prom, the superintendent told her only male students were allowed to wear tuxes, according to court documents.

Superintendent Teresa McNeece also told McMillen that she and her girlfriend could be ejected from the prom if any of the other students complained about their presence there, according to the documents.


So if they told her she was banned, then exactly why did the Super tell her she could be ejected. Hard to be ejected from something you are banned from.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:10 AM 
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I am hoping you can see that right there in your quote there are statements that don't quite line up. They are both banned and ejected.

Quote:
memorandum from the school to students, dated February 5, which states that prom dates must be of the opposite sex.


banned.

Quote:
Superintendent Teresa McNeece also told McMillen that she and her girlfriend could be ejected from the prom if any of the other students complained about their presence there, according to the documents.


ejected.

no matter, even if ONLY the second thing happened (and it didn't, as the first part of the quote you provided shows) it's incredibly discriminatory.

"You black people can come to this prom, unless anyone complains about you being there" is simply bigotry, but apparently if you change "Black" to "Gay" it becomes ok.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:14 AM 
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Cool, Khan. Thanks for using your journalistic research prowess to dig up a quote that supports what people have been telling you.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:15 AM 
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:23 AM 
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Quote:
"You black people can come to this prom, unless anyone complains about you being there" is simply bigotry, but apparently if you change "Black" to "Gay" it becomes ok.


That's pretty much how it is, Fribur. The zeitgeist has shifted from it being OK to hate people of other races to now being OK to hate people of other sexual orientations.

Down the road, when it shifts to something else, everyone will play the part of an embarassed nation, outraged at how we treated our gay fellow citizens. Most people won't mean it, but they'll have to act that way in public.

The ignorami will have a new target for their hate, though, and all the people pretending to be outraged at the past treatment of gays will somehow see it as ok to hate this new group of pariahs.

It's just how we are. People love to hate for some reason.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:27 AM 
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:47 PM 
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Fribur wrote:
I'm going to point out *again* that they also banned same sex couples from going. This isn't just about the clothing. Focus on the real issue.


where where was this at, I have reread the first post and the link, they sent here to a "fake" prom along with other disabled kids. There was a Church that was going to protest about same sex couples at proms, but nothing about the school. It was also said in the story that it was not clear if the school as involved at all.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 PM 
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Since there may be some confusion/wiggle room on the part of the aforementioned Hateful Intolerant Idiots:

In order to go to the prom at all, the two girls would have to take male dates. They could then be at the prom, and enjoy each other's company, but if anyone was 'uncomfortable' they would then be ejected.

So, in order for the [fat/black/Irish/bespectacled/DNC] person to come to a party, he has to be in the company of a [skinny/white/English/glasses-free/GOP] person, and can only afterwards mingle with another [fat/black/Irish/bespectacled/DNC] person. But if any of the rest of the [skinny/white/English/glasses-free/GOP] people say they don't want them there, then they have to leave anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:23 PM 
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Syuni D'zpecyzczn wrote:
Since there may be some confusion/wiggle room on the part of the aforementioned Hateful Intolerant Idiots:

In order to go to the prom at all, the two girls would have to take male dates. They could then be at the prom, and enjoy each other's company, but if anyone was 'uncomfortable' they would then be ejected.

So, in order for the [fat/black/Irish/bespectacled/DNC] person to come to a party, he has to be in the company of a [skinny/white/English/glasses-free/GOP] person, and can only afterwards mingle with another [fat/black/Irish/bespectacled/DNC] person. But if any of the rest of the [skinny/white/English/glasses-free/GOP] people say they don't want them there, then they have to leave anyway.


this made me LOL

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:35 PM 
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:46 PM 
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Quote:
where where was this at, I have reread the first post and the link, they sent here to a "fake" prom along with other disabled kids. There was a Church that was going to protest about same sex couples at proms, but nothing about the school. It was also said in the story that it was not clear if the school as involved at all.


You are mixing up the story some... there's more to it than the original story posted.

Fake prom didn't happen until after what we are describing. Here's the short version: First lesbian asks to go to prom. School said hell no. Lesbian sends a letter via lawyer threatening lawsuit. School cancels prom to avoid it. Lesbian goes to court and wins case; court says they have to be allowed to go. School officials and parents help create a private prom, then send her to a fake one.

All the bullshit Khan is posting and everyone else is responding to happened *before* the fake prom stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:04 PM 
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Isn't it interesting how gay people just magically appeared in high school this year? Seeing as how from the sounds of it no gay people have ever gone to a prom with who they wanted to. Funny how all that works.

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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 11:51 PM 
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Quote:
Isn't it interesting how gay people just magically appeared in high school this year? Seeing as how from the sounds of it no gay people have ever gone to a prom with who they wanted to. Funny how all that works.


Isn't it amazing how gay people just magically appeared in the last 25 years? Seeing as how from the sounds of it, no gay people have ever lived their lives openly and happily before Stonewall. Funny how that works.

Just because people function and exist under a repressive system doesn't mean the repressive system isn't wrong and should be a) spoken out against and b) changed. It is their prom as well and the time has long since passed that they should be invited to the party.

I think it is 100% awesome that these kids feel like they have enough of a voice to speak out. Mostly because in each of the stories, there is a supporting parent at home. So kudos to them as well.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:24 AM 
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Vanamar wrote:
hating is fun.

I hate willfully ignorant people. Is that racist somehow?
It might be, if any one group of people has is significantly more willfully ignorant than the rest. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:29 PM 
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Quote:
First lesbian asks to go to prom. School said hell no. Lesbian sends a letter via lawyer threatening lawsuit. School cancels prom to avoid it. Lesbian goes to court and wins case; court says they have to be allowed to go. School officials and parents help create a private prom, then send her to a fake one.


First lesbian asks to go to prom. School said hell no.

Wrong.

Lesbian asks to being same sex date to prom and wear a mans tuxedo. Lesbian is told no same sex dates regardless of sexual preferences citing a 20yr old rule based on prior issues with groups of guys/girls bringing drinking age people to prom to buy alcohol. Lesbian is also told NO TUX citing same memo of Prom Rules. But is not told she is not allowed to personally attend. She and her date can attend but cannot arrive as a couple and must refrain from PDAs like kissing while slow dancing because it might make the straight kids uncomfortable.

Lesbian sends a letter via lawyer threatening lawsuit.

Wrong.


Lesbian contacts ACLU and they send a letter demanding she be allowed to take a same sex date and wear a tux. School in a panic, says fuck it and removes sponsorship of the prom, which they had on record as discussing doing so for over 4yrs due to insurance liabilities. School drops the ball big time during the meeting by only discussing the possible lawsuit and not discussing the matter of the Lesbian's request.

Lesbian goes to court and wins case; court says they have to be allowed to go.

Wrong, although on semantics...

Lesbian goes to preliminary hearing for injunction to re-instate the prom. Judge rules her 1st Amendment rights were violated but does not order school to reinstate sponsorship of the prom since parents are already planning one.

School officials and parents help create a private prom, then send her to a fake one.

Wrong.

School officials did not organize anything and in fact Her school principal and teachers served as chaperones at the Prom she went to. The fact that the remaining students chose not to attend the Prom is their own choice just the same as if you chose not to go to yours. The parents, after being called bigots and backwoods hicks by the lesbian, chose to throw AND pay for their own party for their kids and that is well within their rights as parents to do so.

Bottom line, she went to court, got her prom and is pissed no one came.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:40 PM 
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Xkhanx wrote:
Lesbian asks to being same sex date to prom and wear a mans tuxedo. Lesbian is told no same sex dates regardless of sexual preferences citing a 20yr old rule based on prior issues with groups of guys/girls bringing drinking age people to prom to buy alcohol. Lesbian is also told NO TUX citing same memo of Prom Rules. But is not told she is not allowed to personally attend. She and her date can attend but cannot arrive as a couple and must refrain from PDAs like kissing while slow dancing because it might make the straight kids uncomfortable.
Just to change the tone of the argument here...

The point isn't whether or not she was discriminated against because she wasn't allowed to do bring who she wanted or wear what she wanted.

Nor is the point that she wasn't discriminated against because she was only told to follow the same rules as everyone else.

The point is whether or not those rules unfairly discriminate against her because she is a lesbian.

Age of a rule doesn't increase its validity. If anything, it could do just the opposite. 20 years ago, the issues faced were different than they are today.

If the purpose of that rule was to reduce drinking at/after the prom, they missed the ball. It sounds like that particular rule should prohibit students from bringing dates who are older than 20, not same-sex dates.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:04 PM 
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lol Khan... most of your post there goes like this:

Me: "Lesbian not allowed to go to prom."

You: WRONG. Actually, it's "Lesbian not allowed to go to prom" with a lot more words!

You amuse me. I'll stop for a bit though, and wait for your thoughtful response to Leolan's post, since he is taking a kinder approach and hell... maybe it will work!


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 7:53 PM 
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Neesha the Necro wrote:
Clearly, she was walking around school picking fights by being a lesbian.

Looks like Frib really hit a nerve when calling out daddy's boy.

Maybe he's just afraid his son is gay. 'Cause obviously it's reason people pick fights in school.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:40 PM 
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Fribur, I had my doubts before but now I realize you really are just plain stupid. I ask you one final time. Show me where they said she couldn't attend or was banned for the sole reason of being a lesbian?

Leo, I completely agree with your assessment. The rule does discriminate against her AS a lesbian. But the rule wasn't put there BECAUSE she is a lesbian like Fribur and the rest of these idiots on here.

Finlainea, thanks for the comments about my son. But I'll be happily sitting in a Big Ten/ACC/MAC stadium with 50,000 fans watching him play while whatever you are able to spawn is out in the in the grade school parking lot sucking cock for lunch money.

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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:56 PM 
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We've reached the "My son is better than your son" portion of Khan's idiocy in this thread. What a dumbass.


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:37 PM 
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Easy to prevent. Don't take shots at my family.

Now fuck off, Neesha.

Funny thing is, No one on here has even bothered to ask me what my thoughts on this issue are. Everyone just assumed...
But since they haven't I'll tell you.

I think anyone should be able to take anyone, boy/boy girl/girl to anything they want to take them to. My beef here was with how people were getting the facts wrong and how she acted.

Hell, lets not stop there, I'm Pro-Choice too! I'm also an agnostic. My best friend and a guy I coach with is moving into a house on the next street over and OMG HE'S black and I can't wait. And as I've stated before I am Pro-Same sex Unions, why shouldn't they be allowed to be as miserable as the heteros...Hmmm anything else... Oh yeah, I hate Obama, the worst waist of a vote in 32 years. Coke Zero sucks.

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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:45 AM 
I schooled the old school.
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"waste"


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:26 AM 
The Sleeper
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Xkhanx wrote:
Leo, I completely agree with your assessment. The rule does discriminate against her AS a lesbian. But the rule wasn't put there BECAUSE she is a lesbian like Fribur and the rest of these idiots on here.
That's an easy distinction to miss that really has no bearing on whether or not the rule is appropriate. Don't see why we can't give them the benefit of the doubt.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:53 PM 
I schooled the old school.
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Quote:
has no bearing on whether or not the rule is appropriate.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:59 PM 
The Sleeper
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QFT?


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:10 PM 
I schooled the old school.
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indeed, and it's nice to have you here :). You are so much nicer about things than I!


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:05 AM 
The Sleeper
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I've turned into a lurker in my old age, heh.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:31 PM 
I've pwned over 300 times!
I've pwned over 300 times!
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Leolan wrote:
Xkhanx wrote:
Leo, I completely agree with your assessment. The rule does discriminate against her AS a lesbian. But the rule wasn't put there BECAUSE she is a lesbian like Fribur and the rest of these idiots on here.
That's an easy distinction to miss that really has no bearing on whether or not the rule is appropriate. Don't see why we can't give them the benefit of the doubt.


Whether or not the rule is appropriate, is irrelevant it’s still the rule, and until it is changed it needs to be followed.

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:23 PM 
Oh yeah? How 'bout I kick your ass?
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Don't go there Devil, you'll be branded a homophobe.

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:28 PM 
I schooled the old school.
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Quote:
Whether or not the rule is appropriate, is irrelevant it’s still the rule, and until it is changed it needs to be followed.


Completely false. If a rule is unjust, you have a moral obligation NOT to follow it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:49 AM 
Froaaak!!!
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Quote:
Whether or not the rule is appropriate, is irrelevant it’s still the rule, and until it is changed it needs to be followed.


The logical extension of what you are saying, is that Rosa Parks should have sat at the back of the bus, yes?

I think we're all glad she didn't. You may not see this issue in the same way, but many of us do.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:13 AM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
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Quote:
Don't go there Devil, you'll be branded a homophobe.


Nope, not a homophobe. Just ignorant.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:44 PM 
The Sleeper
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Besides what's already been stated, not following an unjust rule is an important step in changing it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:30 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
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Is there not a difference though in not following an unjust rule, ala Rosa Parks and just raising a stink about it ala Constance Whateverherlastnameis? I think there is. She could have shown up at Prom with her girlfriend, wearing a tux and then let the chips fall where they may but she chose instead to just get lots of publicity.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:42 PM 
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mmm, she would have had to raise a stink anyway.

they would have just turned her away from the prom, unless she brought a local news film crew with her.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:45 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
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Van, do you actually know that (if so, how?) or are you assuming? Proms are generally 'policed' mostly by parents not school officials and I doubt they would have said anything. We'll never know, though.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:52 PM 
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I'm going based on the proms I went to (five total), where school officials DID police the prom entry to make sure school policies were in force.

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 5:55 PM 
Trakanon is FFA!
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Devil wrote:
Whether or not the rule is appropriate, is irrelevant it’s still the rule, and until it is changed it needs to be followed.

Xkhanx wrote:
Don't go there Devil, you'll be branded a homophobe.

You guys can't possibly be this ignorant. I get it now - this is all a joke and you're trying to keep the boards alive. GOOD SHOW!


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 7:40 PM 
For the old school!
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For someone not into that sort of encounter, Khan, you sure are evidencing a great deal of butthurt.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:53 PM 
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Quote:
Is there not a difference though in not following an unjust rule, ala Rosa Parks and just raising a stink about it ala Constance Whateverherlastnameis? I think there is. She could have shown up at Prom with her girlfriend, wearing a tux and then let the chips fall where they may but she chose instead to just get lots of publicity.


Quote:
Van, do you actually know that (if so, how?) or are you assuming? Proms are generally 'policed' mostly by parents not school officials and I doubt they would have said anything. We'll never know, though.


Better yet, are you assuming that the "publicity" method doesn't work as well? At the very least, it's splitting hairs. You can do a side tangent argument about methods if you want, but the fact remains that she was discriminated against by those rules. If either method has a chance of changing fucked up rules like that, I can't complain too much, can you?

I'm eagerly looking forward to reading Devil and Khan's responses as well!


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:27 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
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Yes, Venen, I do see a real difference between an act of defiance towards an unjust law and a publicity stunt because you may be discriminated against by a rule that wasn't even put in place to discriminate against you.

One takes courage and the other just takes a desire for your 15 minutes.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:46 AM 
I schooled the old school.
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Quote:
Van, do you actually know that (if so, how?) or are you assuming? Proms are generally 'policed' mostly by parents not school officials and I doubt they would have said anything. We'll never know, though.


As someone who works in the public school system, I can tell you that you have no idea what you are talking about here.

Quote:
Yes, Venen, I do see a real difference between an act of defiance towards an unjust law and a publicity stunt because you may be discriminated against by a rule that wasn't even put in place to discriminate against you.


Bullshit. It's exactly why the rule was put into place, regardless of what the school or Khan claims now. There is no other reasonable explanation.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:04 AM 
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Fribur, you can call "bullshit" all you'd like but from one of your own links:

Quote:
She said, "He said that something about when the tickets were first started, that it was cheaper for people to come as a date, like just two friends than to come individually, so people would do that and they were just trying to prohibit that."

But McMillen said, "I explained to him that you can't pretend like there's not gay people at our school, and if you tell people they can't bring same-sex date, that is discrimination to them."


She herself states that the reasoning behind the rule was not because they had their first openly gay couple in the high school. That would be incredibly easy to prove if the rule was instituted shorty after an openly gay couple began wandering campus. Clearly that is not the case.


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