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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:15 PM 
10 Years? God im old!
10 Years? God im old!
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Thanks Obama!
Quote:
Closing the new frontier
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, February 12, 2010


"We have an agreement until 2012 that Russia will be responsible for this," says Anatoly Perminov, head of the Russian space agency, about ferrying astronauts from other countries into low-Earth orbit. "But after that? Excuse me, but the prices should be absolutely different then!"

By the end of this year, there will be no shuttle, no U.S. manned space program, no way for us to get into space. We're not talking about Mars or the moon here. We're talking about low-Earth orbit, which the United States has dominated for nearly half a century and from which it is now retiring with nary a whimper.

Our absence from low-Earth orbit was meant to last a few years, the interval between the retirement of the fatally fragile space shuttle and its replacement with the Constellation program (Ares booster, Orion capsule, Altair lunar lander) to take astronauts more cheaply and safely back to space.

But the Obama 2011 budget kills Constellation. Instead, we shall have nothing. For the first time since John Glenn flew in 1962, the United States will have no access of its own for humans into space -- and no prospect of getting there in the foreseeable future.

Of course, the administration presents the abdication as a great leap forward: Launching humans will be turned over to the private sector, while NASA's efforts will be directed toward landing on Mars.

This is nonsense. It would be swell for private companies to take over launching astronauts. But they cannot do it. It's too expensive. It's too experimental. And the safety standards for getting people up and down reliably are just unreachably high.

Sure, decades from now there will be a robust private space-travel industry. But that is a long time. In the interim, space will be owned by Russia and then China. The president waxes seriously nationalist at the thought of China or India surpassing us in speculative "clean energy." Yet he is quite prepared to gratuitously give up our spectacular lead in human space exploration.

As for Mars, more nonsense. Mars is just too far away. And how do you get there without the stepping stones of Ares and Orion? If we can't afford an Ares rocket to get us into orbit and to the moon, how long will it take to develop a revolutionary new propulsion system that will take us not a quarter-million miles but 35 million miles?

To say nothing of the effects of long-term weightlessness, of long-term cosmic ray exposure, and of the intolerable risk to astronaut safety involved in any Mars trip -- six months of contingencies vs. three days for a moon trip.

Of course, the whole Mars project as substitute for the moon is simply a ruse. It's like the classic bait-and-switch for high-tech military spending: Kill the doable in the name of some distant sophisticated alternative, which either never gets developed or is simply killed later in the name of yet another, even more sophisticated alternative of the further future. A classic example is the B-1 bomber, which was canceled in the 1970s in favor of the over-the-horizon B-2 stealth bomber, which was then killed in the 1990s after a production run of only 21 (instead of 132) in the name of post-Cold War obsolescence.

Moreover, there is the question of seriousness. When John F. Kennedy pledged to go to the moon, he meant it. He had an intense personal commitment to the enterprise. He delivered speeches remembered to this day. He dedicated astronomical sums to make it happen.

At the peak of the Apollo program, NASA was consuming almost 4 percent of the federal budget, which in terms of the 2011 budget is about $150 billion. Today the manned space program will die for want of $3 billion a year -- 1/300th of last year's stimulus package with its endless make-work projects that will leave not a trace on the national consciousness.

As for President Obama's commitment to beyond-lunar space: Has he given a single speech, devoted an iota of political capital to it?

Obama's NASA budget perfectly captures the difference in spirit between Kennedy's liberalism and Obama's. Kennedy's was an expansive, bold, outward-looking summons. Obama's is a constricted, inward-looking call to retreat.

Fifty years ago, Kennedy opened the New Frontier. Obama has just shut it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:20 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
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I'm disappointed too.

That said...

Quote:
This is nonsense. It would be swell for private companies to take over launching astronauts. But they cannot do it. It's too expensive. It's too experimental. And the safety standards for getting people up and down reliably are just unreachably high.


I'm curious as to what evidence these huge claims are based on.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:24 PM 
10 Years? God im old!
10 Years? God im old!
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I was born in 1962. I remember watching the moon landing. I remember Sky Lab. I also remember the first shuttle launch. This saddens me.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:23 PM 
Destroyer of Douchenozzles
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I guess that trip to Space Camp is off. Well fuck. Good job Dems on losing the Trekkie vote in 2012.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:55 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
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I loved that movie when I was a kid. I didn't realize that was Joaquin Phoenix.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:05 PM 
Cazic Thule owned RoA
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Launching payloads can and has been done commercially. Launching people is a different matter, as a disaster to them is much more catastrophic than it is to the government. Even apart from the risk pure science, as most shuttle missions are, just does not generate the type of revenue that interests private companies.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:07 PM 
10 Years? God im old!
10 Years? God im old!
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Another point of view:
President Obama’s NASA budget unveiled


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:09 PM 
I schooled the old school.
I schooled the old school.
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I went to space camp in 5th grade.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:37 PM 
Vanguard Fanboy!
Vanguard Fanboy!

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Probably going to save a lot of money!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:45 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
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eh I wonder how much it will save. I think we need to rethink NASA completely. I admit I don't really know much about the mission and focus, but it seems, to me, that if we're not going for manned exploration that we should focus completely on at least one element that has a mixture of strategic and scientific value. Research, drones, telescopes, whatever. I think NASA is still pretty general.

I also wonder how much we could benefit from more cooperation, formally, with other countries. I've always thought the concept of a race when it comes to science was pretty stupid - especially in terms of research.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:24 AM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
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The past few decades haven't produced any major "OMG LAND ON THE MOON" moments, so people just lose interest. Which is sad, because we've seen some fairly major advancements due to space missions during those same decades and it has helped broaden our understanding of the universe. It's just unfortunate that when those discoveries don't grant something people can oogle at, people are all too willing to suggest that it's a complete waste of money and scrap it entirely. This isn't so much as Obama's failure as it is the people's. No one seems to give much of a damn about it especially during an economic recession. It's not a priority for people, and Obama knows there's very little risk in cutting it because of that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:01 PM 
Derakor the Vindicator
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the private sector will do it better and cheaper than the bloated whale known as nasa ever will


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:29 PM 
The Lurker at the Threshold

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I'm just afraid of what will happen if we privatize spaceflight. =(

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:33 PM 
Master Baiter
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Well they certainly won't let Kevin Smith on! ;>


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:32 AM 
Trakanon is FFA!
Trakanon is FFA!

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Mono = ha.

On a serious note, I struggle with this because I am not sure what the point of space travel is other than the assumption that some day we can colonize another world.

On the other hand, it feels like the right thing to do.

Ultimately, I blame Nixon for the whole Space Shuttle debacle that has ruined space travel for the last 30+ years.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:38 PM 
Train Right Side!
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I'm confused by the sadness. I thought that privatization was always the best possible answer under every circumstance. How can John Galt start a colony on the dark side of the moon unless the free markets decide the worth of space exploration?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:17 PM 
Trolling like there is no tomorrow!
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Sounds similar to leaving Alaska's worth in the hands of the free market in 1867.


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