I might answer your question, if it was relevant to what I was saying, but it wasn't.

So being open minded requires advocacy of homosexuality? Really? There are a lot of different measures of open mindedness. I'd say you're pretty close minded in regards to religion in general. But hey, you're cool with the gays so it doesn't matter!

Any christian who doesn't believe in free will needs to re-read genesis -- original sin can't happen without free will having been in the picture.

I still think free will as a philisophical concept is impossible.

So, all of you are trying to tell me you don't hear dedicated Christians utter the phrases "God's plan", "God intented it to be like this", "It's in God's hands", "God wants me to...", etc?

Any iteration of these phrases implies, automatically, that free-will does not exist because God has an intent or purpose for you or has laid out a plan for you, even if you think that you "mostly" have free-will and God decided to interevene and fuck with you a few times or whatever.

So, all of you are trying to tell me you don't hear dedicated Christians utter the phrases "God's plan", "God intented it to be like this", "It's in God's hands", "God wants me to...", etc?

I hope you were when you wrote that...

I still think free will as a philisophical concept is impossible. What we have is the *illusion* of free will. Every decision we make is a direct result of two spheres of influence on us: our genetics and the environment around us. I cannot see how we can make a decision that is not a result of these two influences, as these influences make up the entirety of reality as we know it.

I chose to write thie post because my life experiences and my personality dictate that it be so.

This may be the most disturbing thought I have ever read on this board from someone I had previously considered an intelligent poster. I read a fair amount of the posting here and enjoy the banter but I want to step in here. The idea that someone can not step outside of their genetics and environment and take a new path is absurd beyond reason.

If I remembr right, you are a teacher Frib? If so, your jaded philosphy makes a degree of sense (as much as I disagree with it). My wife is also a teacher and she deals with the fact that frequently the "apple doesnt fall far from the tree" every single day. The reason she has been able to teach special education now for 10 years without even a hint of burnout is a belief that people CAN and DO step outside of what they are given and make things better. Unfortunately, she also sees people make things worse... but the concept is the same.

Now if this was one of your troll posts again, you got me. It still makes me sad to imagine the world you live in with no free will.

Yes, I was talking about Bello's post, which was pretty close to incoherent. No offense, it was truly badly written and totally hard to understand.

This may be the most disturbing thought I have ever read on this board from someone I had previously considered an intelligent poster. I read a fair amount of the posting here and enjoy the banter but I want to step in here. The idea that someone can not step outside of their genetics and environment and take a new path is absurd beyond reason.

If I remembr right, you are a teacher Frib? If so, your jaded philosphy makes a degree of sense (as much as I disagree with it). My wife is also a teacher and she deals with the fact that frequently the "apple doesnt fall far from the tree" every single day. The reason she has been able to teach special education now for 10 years without even a hint of burnout is a belief that people CAN and DO step outside of what they are given and make things better. Unfortunately, she also sees people make things worse... but the concept is the same.

Now if this was one of your troll posts again, you got me. It still makes me sad to imagine the world you live in with no free will.

Yes, I was talking about Bello's post, which was pretty close to incoherent. No offense, it was truly badly written and totally hard to understand.

It made total sense to me. Most of it wasn't even Bello's writing. It was a quote of someone else.

Word. Religions are like STDs - I don't care if you have one, just don't go spreading that shit around.