Sword of Truth spoilers below, be warned.





I like good fantasy. I thought the first few Sword of Truth books were excellent. But as I read each book in the series, they get more and more difficult to read. Seriously, it's just one catastrophe after another for Richard and Kahlan. And then he devotes a whole book about Jennsen? Richard doesn't even appear until like page 420? Seriously, what's up with that? Now to Chainfire.

Let me get this straight. Kahlan's existence is totally erased. Nobody remembers her at all. Nobody except for Richard. When Richard tries to explain who she is, people question his sanity. After everything he has been through (the Boxes of Orden, the Chimes, etc.) he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt? And why does it take him 500 pages before he mentions that Zedd once put a spell over Kahlan that made everyone think she was dead? Isn't this kind of important to prove that it IS possible that magic is involved? Why doesn't he mention how the Chimes were released? Didn't Kahlan say the 3 words? Didn't it have to do with him having a 3rd wife? Couldn't he bring this up? I'd think if he said, "I had to have 3 wives for this to happen.. WHO WERE MY WIVES?!" that may make people believe him at least a little bit, instead of simply thinking he's still having problems from when he almost died.

Wouldn't the Mother Confessor be involved in some sort of Prophecy? Surely she'd be mentioned at least once. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the blank pages in the books of Prophecy were pages that talked about Kahlan (I am assuming this is the case, I haven't gotten to the explanation yet)? The books are all pretty far-fetched (it's fantasy, what can you do?), but seriously, this one is just frustrating as hell. Richard, a guy who has been through everything you can (and cannot) imagine, a guy who has defied the odds countless times, a guy who has turned the world upside down, a guy who has been to hell and back, isn't believed when he says that something is wrong. I'm going to finish the book, and I'll read the final few books in the series, but I do think that the series has gone to shit.

AND WHERE THE HELL IS GRATCH?!

I'm totally with you. Especially on the gratch part.. wtf. He's introducing shitty characters like Jennsen and eliminating really cool and interesting ones.

The whole series is much like Robert Jordan's. Where Jordan went astray with too little events and too much detail, and focusing on other characters, Goodkind went astray with the preachy bullshit, the NEW characters, and like you said, one implausible catastrophe after another.

- Gone is the focus on the Wizards Rules. It's there, but it's been so de-emphasized.
- Jagang is a boring character. He's never really explained, there's no depth to him, and sleepwalking is portrayed as an all-powerful godlike ability, it's stupid. Just when you're thinking that the D'Haran empire is invincible, as portrayed in the first two books.. in comes this much more vast empire that makes the D'Hara empire look like Rhode Island.
- Book 1: OMG the world is ending. Book 2: OMG it's ending again but it's worse now. Book 3: Holy shit it's really going to end now. Book 4: Truth freedom and stuff, and omg the world is ending but it's srsly bad this time.
- His ability as a seeker gets further downplayed as each book comes out. Being a seeker was a lot more interesting than being a war wizard - at least to me.

There are still interesting characters. The mord-sith are cool as hell, and all the D'Harans are fun. But Kahlan is seriously boring as hell, and Richard only slightly less so.

I think the problem is that he's not sticking to one epic story arc, like Robert Jordan is... say what you want, but it all leads to the Last Battle. With Goodkind, it's almost like he should have either kept it to one arcing catastrophe, or broken it up into more of a world like, say, Forgotten Realms or something, with discrete books that stand on their own. These books are more like a weird mini series, with totally different "armageddons", but all being faced by the same characters, sequentially.

Wizards First Rule was really good, from there the series generally went down hill.
I read the first few then stopped for a bit, then read up to Chainfire and gave up on the series completely.

It's been about a year and a half since I read Chainfire so I don't remember a lot of details but I remember struggling to finish it. Nobody believing Richard got really annoying. I slightly liked the part where he started working with the Blacksmith, He was a decent character.

Let us know if the last couple books are worth reading, I keep seeing the newest one at the library and think I should just finish the series.

These aren't bad books - the last two - it's more that I REALLY liked the first two, and feel that it hasn't lived up to its potential.

The last half of the series is crap. As a special bonus, the ending to the series is also crap.

The guy looks like a putz...

Gratch lug Rach arg!

This seems to be one of those series where you start out saying, "Wow, this is cool!" and slowly start to say, "..ok, this is getting weird." and "This is really going on longer than it needs to be...."

Wheel of Time was suffering a similar fate.

The last WoT book is going to be split up into 3, with the first part due out in november I believe and then 1 year apart for the last two.

http://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Storm-W ... 533&sr=8-1

I just....don't care....anymore. =(

I'm 30 now. I started reading Wheel of Time when I was in 9th grade and there were already 3 books out then.

Just...too long.

It's been my favorite series since I started reading books. Have to see it out.

Plus, started re-"reading" them in audio book. Amazing what you pick up when you can't skip the boring parts while held captive in traffic

I've never had a problem with the WoT books, personally. I've just always liked the characters, even though Jordan could have shortened things (and I'll never forgive him for writing a Conan book while in-between WoT books!). I'm anxiously awaiting the conclusion to that story.

ps: Why doesn't Richard just talk to the Silph? Surely she'd have info on the place he is supposed to visit (whatever it was that Shota told him).

... and why didn't he just kill Samuel before giving Shota his sword? The bargain they struck was to give HER the sword, not that clown. Dumbass.

If you are looking for new material you should try The Name of the Wind, if you haven't already.

http://www.amazon.com/Name-Wind-Kingkil ... 465&sr=8-1

And I'll always evangelize the Warhammer 40k omnibus editions, heh. My secret shame...

Ya, The Name of the Wind was great!

I was just thinking about posting about The Name of the Wind. Truly fantastic, Patrick Rothfuss is going to be the next big author.

Name of the Wind is awesome. I used to read the Sword of Truth books, but I realized pretty quickly he just builds some story around some vague real world social commentary. That whole anti-socialism book was kinda tired.

I just finished reading The First Law trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. It's like he took your usual fantasy formula and skull fucked it. I really enjoyed it.

The Name of the Wind is great. I'm a teeny bit anxious to find out how it goes when he starts writing some of the "adventure" is all. The whole first book feels like setup to me. It could end up as an epic story, or it could end up dragging. Also, I curse him for pushing an April release for the next one back to August. Curse him, I say!

Another good little trilogy I picked up lately is The Golden Compass story. I had written it off as kids books, but it's surprisingly engaging. Worth a read through.

It's tough, yeah. Rothfuss spent over a decade writing and rewriting The Name of the Wind, editing it over and over until finally after dozens of rejections the book got published. Since it's a fantasy series, no doubt the publisher signed him to write a trilogy. We'll see if the next two books are up to the high standards set in TNotW. God I hope so.

You have to read Phantom and Confessor to understand what Chainfire is, that's all there is to it.

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"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

Yeah they were really refreshing:). Currently reading Gardens of the Moon the first in the Malazan Book of the Fallen series. Heavy going at the moment but I'm really enjoying them.

Khaless, I just recently picked that series up while I was in Canada and I'm diggin book 2, it lightens up a bit but good stuff.

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"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

The Malazan Books of the Fallen are simply amazing. They'll hop around a bit as you progress but there is a definitive focus that hold it all together. I can n ot wait for the next one to come out and end up bought a few through amazon.uk since they were releasing them across the seas months sooner than here in the US. I *think* they stopped doing that with the latest book however.

If you like Erikson, I recommend Glen Cook's Black Company books. The Night Angel trilogy by Brent Weeks was a decent and very quick read. The Lies of Locke Lamora and Red Seas under Red Skies by Scott Lynch are also very good with humor comparable to Stephen Brust's writing.

Back on topic, I stuck with the Goodkind story due to the time invested previously, I really hope the last book (or books as it's been stated now) of the Wheel of Time don't let me down as bad.

I liked Joe Abercrombie OK, but when I checked out his Web site, he comes across as a pompous ass. And the ending left a bit to be desired. I'd say more, but I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it. (I liked part of it, but not all of it)

There were some things about him that I really like, and others that were just meh.

I still say Martin is the best epic fantasy writer. Some of his shorter books aren't the best, but A Song of Ice and Fire remains my favorite series, hands down. If only he'd finish it.

I'll second Kaedian's Brent Weeks suggestion, and throw in Robin Hobb. Also, R.A. Salvatore's stuff (not the Forgotten Realms stuff...they're too easy and quick to read) is pretty good. I really enjoyed the Demonwars Saga (7 books total, the series is complete, although he does have a few books that take place in the same world).

I'll keep an eye out for Name of the Wind, but probably won't pick up the series til it's complete. I'm tired of having to wait years for sequels. *Cough*Martin*cough*

I gave up on Jordan after book 9.

Goodkind had hits and misses. For example, I'll agree that the book that focused on Jennsen was boring, but I really like the one where Richard and Nicci are in the Old World. Although it, like a few other books, is a bit heavy handed when it comes to his political views.

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The last Jordan book was actually decent Austy, you should try it.

I finished Chainfire. It actually ended pretty good. It's just a shame that the first 680 pages were stupid. Nicci still rox my sox.

ps: GRATCH PLZ

New book is already pissing me off. Richard tells Ann, Nathan, and Zedd that he senses something wrong with the magical spell that Nicci is under and Ann tries to tell him that he doesn't know what he's talking about. DIDN'T HE JUST PROVE THAT HE KNOWS MORE SHIT THAN ALL OF YOU COMBINED?! DOESN'T HE DESERVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT BY NOW?

I hope she's the next to die.

Reminds me of that show Medium, where every fucking episode she'd be like, "I had a dream about Bob dying!" and everyone says, "DURR ITS JUST A DREAM STFU"

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"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

Neesha, they don't trust him at all because of the Chainfire event and only him remembering Khalan, they think he's bat shit insane as it is. Trust me, just finish it before you freak out =p

I think my spoilers didn't work thanks Droma!

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"I'm the best there is at what i do, bub, and what i do isn't very pretty"

I picked up Phantom on Friday, this thread is Evil!

Ann sucks, I'm with Neesha, she needs to die off.

My biggest complaint about the series, really, is the really shitty plot devicium he uses to move the story forward at times.

The whole last story arc just feels lazy to me. This series was awesome when it was a fantasy story about a woods guide. When Richard turns into a sort of douchey captain perfect, who is apparently the messiah of How Things Should Be, it gets irritating. It's like Goodkind is just making some shit up as an afterthought so that he can spend another chapter telling you AGAIN why all of the good guys do the things they do. Never have I read a series where the motivations of the characters were so thoroughly explained to me.

In the same vein, the ending feels like a cop out to me too!


Also, on a nitpicky note, while I'm just being negative, I hate writers that abuse a pet phrase or two, and Goodkind seemed to get worse about that toward the end of the series too. At least I didn't notice it as much in the first part, but I swear I was going to start highlighting sentences where I heard about Richard's "raptor grey eyes" or anyone loosened their weapon in its scabbard. It would be like a coloring book.

On the upside, Wizard's First Rule is still one of my favorite fantasies ever. Perhaps the fact that I like that one so much is why I find the later ones so distasteful. It's just such a letdown.

man i'm glad i never read the sequels to wizard's first rule

except maybe i did... i vaguely remember some sexy dominatrix chick getting freaky with a pain stick on richard. was that in a sequel?

Denna was awesome.

Stone of Tears, the second book, was just as good (I thought it was better actually). And yes, Denna was an awesome character. One of my favorites from the books.

You know, this series is almost like the Star Trek "curse", only not as obvious. But it seemed like Goodkind nailed every, say, 1 out of 3 books. And the other 2 tended to be "meh".

Wizard's First Rule, Stone of Tears, Temple of the Winds, and Faith of the Fallen stood out for me, while most of the others were a bit of a dull read. Soul of the Fire and Naked Empire especially... I mean, wtf?

Faith was great, though. My personal fav of the series.

PS - Nicci definitely rocks. Great character. As was Denna.
Shame the TV series was complete and utter shit.

It would be nice to see an author come through and shake up the fantasy genre. RA Salvatore and George RR Martin and Robert Jordan are all ok, but they're just working archetypes to suit their series' needs. I might be able to get back into fantasy if there were another Zelazny hanging out there, but every year or so I pick up a fantasy book on a whim and can't wait to put it down, because it's always the same book with different pronouns.

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Welcome to humanity, Binky.

Everything's already been done before. It's all about how you do it now.

Read some zombie horror.

Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was enjoyable. But then, I'm of the opinion that almost anything can be improved by the inclusion of zombies.

Back on the subject, I am now on the final book. I thought Phantom was better than Chainfire, but in both books, the only "good part" was the ending. The filler leading to the ending pretty much sucked. Confessor looks like it has the potential to be much better book than the previous few, but only time will tell. I do like what he did with Richard, even if it does remind me of the movie Gladiator. Maybe that's why I like it.

About half way through Confessor...



Finished The Name of the Wind last week, I really liked it, wish I had known he hadn't finished the sequel yet. I swear I have read parts of that before, especially the early parts of him at the university. I would have said it was 5 or 6 years ago though, did he pre release part of it?


Going to add in here something from the AE discussion on Legend of the Seeker... when that thread was more recent I had been trying to remember an actor that I thought would be a better Zedd, finally remembered who I was trying to think of the other day.Barnard Hughes who was the grandpa in the Lost Boys

I wasn't going to pick up Name of the Wind. I really wasn't. But funds are low, and I was at the library, which has a very, very, very, very, very poor selection, and it was on the shelf....

*sigh*

Now I have to wait ages for the next book (granted, not quite as long as many others!), and I'm sure the third book will be worse than waiting on Martin's book...

It was partly worth it...I definitely enjoyed it! But now the waiting will be madness. If he turns out like Melanie Rawn (who still hasn't finished her Exiles trilogy from more than a decade ago), I'll be ticked off!

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Oh man why'd you have to go and mention Melanie Rawn. Those were some of the first books I read when getting into fantasy as a kid. And they were good. Damn her.

Know what really ticks me off about her? Now that she's *finally* over her writers block and all the other stuff that had been going on in her life...instead of finishing the series everyone wants to see, she begins an entirely new series!

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I was told to read Name of the Wind earlier this year. I told the person that Martin and Jordan had spoiled it for everyone else. I refuse to pick up a series until it is finished at this point. Tired of investing the energy and the effort into authors who are clearly going to die (and have) before their work is finished.

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